Talk:Tulsa race massacre

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 January 2021 and 7 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kaelynkrandall (article contribs).

On capitalization in "Black" and "white"

Several users have come through run an apparent "find and replace" to change "white" to "White" or to change "Black" to "black". I think it is inappropriate to make such changes without having a discussion on the talk page beforehand. My personal opinion on the topic is that "Black" should be capitalized and "white" should not. While I have many reasons for this opinion, perhaps the simplest is that this is the convention used by the Associated Press. Rileyjmurray (talk) 01:14, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

It's more than just a matter of capitalization. Some of them are also "fixing" things like file names, quotes, and references. And that is not acceptable. - Sumanuil (talk) 02:16, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Why do we have to follow what the Associated Press does? Capitalizing one word, but not the other is going against what our society is striving for - equality. This is fighting racial inequality with more racial inequality by treating one demographic as somehow better than another because of "what they (the latter) did in the past" as if it's some sort of revenge, which will just cause more tension and division. The Associated Press' reasoning for this is basically black people in America all sharing the exact same heritage, culture, and experience, which is racist because it's not true - they're individuals with their own unique heritages, cultures, and experiences just like white people are, which is also a reason we need to stop blaming all white people for past (and present) injustices.— Preceding unsigned comment added by LizzieBabes419 (talk • contribs)

First, sign your comments. Second, don't blindly find-and replace. Third, since when is anybody "blaming all white people for past (and present) injustices"? (Moorish sovereign citizens and their ilk aside.) - Sumanuil (talk) 20:46, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Well LizzieBabes419 it's a very complicated subject and the matter is in flux generally. It's been discussed at WP:MOS and there's no consensus, in which case leave-it-as-you-found it us is the usual practice. I'd be willing to discuss on the merits, but you seem caught up in political stuff so I don't want to. Your whole thrust seems in line with the "well white lives matter too" and "what about white pride and why isn't there a white history month" stuff. It's racist, and you'll get nowhere, so give it up. Herostratus (talk) 23:05, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

It's really not that complicated. There's no human or legal right that a white person has that a black person doesn't have in America today. Yet, you guys (and AP) insist on favoring one racial demographic over another via selective capitalization, which is regressive. What's wrong with saying "white (or all) lives matter"? The "black lives matter" ideology was started because of police brutality, which is possible for anyone, regardless of skin color, to experience. There are many white people who have been unjustly harmed and/or killed at the hands of cops (of multiple racial backgrounds), yet their cases got much less news coverage and awareness because they don't fit the "whitey bad" narrative. Why doesn't BLM focus on the countless black-on-black murders or black abortions that happen constantly? Oh, wait, it's only wrong when white cops or regular white people do it, which are rare occurrences in comparison, because their priorities are out of order. And when did I ever bring up white pride or white history month? If white pride is racist, all other racial prides are, too. Besides, no one should be proud of an immutable trait because it's not an achievement. The only thing I'm giving up is talking to you. Take care.

Sorry, but stopped reading after the first few sentences. I get that you're mad and upset and all, but that doesn't have anything to do with what we're trying to do here. My advice would be to save your time here for working on stuff that doesn't emotionally excite you, and go vent on Reddit or something for the whites-are-mistreated stuff. There you will find sympathetic ears, here you mostly won't. Herostratus (talk) 07:01, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Ah, more ad hominem. I don't even use Reddit and it's true that white people are mistreated a lot like every other demographic (and yes, based on skin color - with the ASU incident being the most recent example). And at least I actually take the time to read everything people say. "That doesn't have anything to do with what we're trying to do here," says the one who brought up "white lives matter, too", which has nothing to do with what I've been explaining. My point is: Selective capitalization is unequal and regressive, and it's just going to further divide us as a society. But I guess it can be seen as a wake-up call to those who haven't been seeing what's been going on lately.

I'm guessing LizzieBabes419 left this comment? Please sign comments by ending with four consecutive tilde marks. Rileyjmurray (talk) 13:30, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Conspiracy?

The lead in this article states: "The commission's final report, published in 2001, states that the city had conspired with the mob of white citizens against Black citizens"

That is factually untrue. The relevant section is on pages 10 and 11 of the report.

Page 11 states: "Others — again, including members of this commission — have studied the same question and examined the same evidence, but they have looked at it in different ways. They see there no proof of conspiracy. Selfish desires surely. Awful effects certainly. But not a conspiracy. Both sides have evidence that they consider convincing, but neither side can convince the other."

In other words "some people think it was a conspiracy others don't". That's all the report says. Please amend text.