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This article was nominated for deletion on 25 February 2022. The result of the discussion was keep.

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This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

Stephen Harrison (1 March 2022). "How the Russian Invasion of Ukraine Is Playing Out on English, Ukrainian, and Russian Wikipedia". Slate. Retrieved 1 March 2022. If you're curious, the Ghost of Kiev's wiki page describes it as an "unconfirmed MiG-29 Fulcrum flying ace" credited with shooting down six Russian planes. The page also notes that the Ghost is most likely an urban legend that has had the effect of boosting Ukrainian morale.

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Frequently asked questions

Q: I heard the videos were fake. Why is this an article then?

A: As cited in the article's opening paragraph, the Ukrainian armed forces have indicated the Ghost of Kyiv is a fictional character. Similar to some other fictional fighter pilots this article exists because the topic is considered notable as a propaganda legend.

Q: I left a comment, where did it go?

A: This talk page is not a forum. It is about improving or discussing changes to the article. If your comment was just having a chat about the Ghost of Kyiv, it has been removed or archived to help maintain productive discussion.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

February 27 to March 5, 2022

Untitled section 1 March 2022

How is everyone still taking this rumor seriously? Has everyone lost their collective minds? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oknevermind (talk • contribs) 16:27, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Santa Claus is rumored to not exist, but he has been ingrained in popular culture. Real or fiction, there is somewhat of a consensus that the Ghost of Kyiv is notable. SWinxy (talk) 19:13, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's straight propaganda - not something ingrained in popular culture. Wikipedia clearly has problems with edits organized by PR agents, but this is a complete mockery. Shtove (talk) 20:34, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The point of comparing it to Santa was to make the point that fictitious things do not make things non-notable. You have been here much longer than me, enough to know that there is no cabal. SWinxy (talk) 21:29, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's a fake, images of a videogame, notable this? LOL, a serious encyclopedia does not keep these articls -->[1]--Kirk39 (talk) 22:25, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pérák, the Spring Man of Prague wikipedia does keep "these" articles. Whether he's real or not, he is known around the world. And we don't even know if he's fake or real yet. Alin2808 (talk) 22:38, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We know he's likely to be fake, the earliest mention of the Ghost of Kyiv I can find happens to be unsourced, coming from a War Thunder YouTuber. Here's the tweet. Additionally, it is technically impossible to score that many kills on air targets (particularly fighters) in the allotted fuel time on the Fulcrum. At best, you get about 40 minutes of fuel, but in combat actually fighting with your enemy, due to the need for extra engine performance, that fuel load drops to roughly 15 minutes. Given time needed to rearm, refuel, and send the fighter back up, you won't be able to score that many kills against far superior aircraft and survive. I find it funny the first mention of this Ghost comes from a War Thunder YouTuber, and not well trusted sources, or from an official source in Ukraine. Senhara (talk) 23:19, 7 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree on that. Though it is possible that he returned to base several times and got lucky with some of his victories, if he is real that is. Anyway, what I think is that the Ghost of Kyiv is in fact several pilots made into this legendary pilot. But enough talk, remember WP:NOTFORUM. Alin2808 (talk) 14:54, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What?? A fake of 3 days ago? Pérák, the Spring Man of Prague: ah ok, 3 encyclopedias that have the article, what notability... (Cit. John McEnroe: You cannot be seriuos).--Kirk39 (talk) 23:27, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please... I'm begging you to read the FAQ: Regarding the videos, a widely-circulated Snopes article on the Ghost of Kyiv says (directly beneath the headline) that The "Ghost of Kyiv" may be real, but this video is not, referring to a particular video, not to all of the videos circulating on the internet. The video in question, as discussed in the article, never claimed to be real. SWinxy (talk) 00:31, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary - I've been here long enough to know that Wikipedia is a labyrinth of sources and interpretations, parts of which are commanded by propagandists. Linking to some hand-waving dismissal doesn't alter the fact. Shtove (talk) 08:49, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

confirmed to be real?

If he has not been confirmed to be real why is it on the website? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.151.5.225 (talk) 06:34, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Because it uses designated reliable sources, which give it a foundation of notability and preclude common sense. Shtove (talk) 08:54, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What if all of the sources used to promote this hoax are part of a social engineering campaign? 135.23.80.41 (talk) 135.23.80.41 (talk) 02:29, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Easter Bunny, Tooth fairy, God, they all have articles and no proof they are real. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 21:16, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but the Easter Bunny, Tooth fairy and God weren't contrived by some coked-up journalist on the payroll of MI6. Shtove (talk) 09:14, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe not, but the fact he is alleged to exist is real. Slatersteven (talk) 11:03, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oleksandr Oksanchenko

Some appear to link "Grey Wolf" to the story of the Ghost of Kyiv. In this article it's claimed that he was indeed the Ghost, though this particular article doesn't strike me as a reliable source. In this article it's said that "Some are linking Oksanchenko to the growing myth of the 'Ghost of Kyiv' - a now legendary fighter pilot claimed to have shot down 10 Russian planes."

Asking for an opinion on this, should the information be added to the wikipedia article or should we wait for newer information to surface? (as nothing seems to be official about his connection to the story of the Ghost of Kyiv) Alin2808 (talk) 19:55, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

These sources don't seem to be reliable enough to connect Oksancheko to the Ghost of Kyiv in any meaningful way beyond rumors. I'd recommend against including them. Qwaiiplayer (talk) 20:37, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I do remember some sources claiming he/she added some 4 kills to these 6 later.☆☆☆—Pietadè^Talk 20:45, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Some are linking Oksanchenko to the growing myth of the 'Ghost of Kyiv'" - assisted, no doubt, by the fact Wikipedia acts as an echo-chamber for this propaganda. Shtove (talk) 21:38, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well as we do not say he is real, and we have in fact fought not to do so, no we are not (in case anyone might take the above seriously) an echo chamber. Except in the sense we echo what RS say.Slatersteven (talk) 11:08, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

PLease read wp:forum. Slatersteven (talk) 11:08, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 March 2022

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add Category:Propaganda legends -- this wartime propaganda story is similar to Angels of Mons or The Crucified Soldier which are also in that category. Endwise (talk) 12:30, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would rather wait till it's all over and we know for sure. But yes, at this time this category MAY fit. Slatersteven (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with waiting. A week or three won't hurt, and it seems likely to me that in a few weeks there will be more information to confirm either "real" or "urban legend" status. Fieari (talk) 23:48, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Later I also agree to hold for a while on this. Especially in light of recent news that might help elucidate things beyond doubt. (or possibly muddy them - who knows really?)

@Endwise: I'm marking this as "answered" for the time being. If WP:RSs can surface some clearer information about this topic than what's already covered in the article please re-activate as indicated by the yellow box or create a new req. if appropriate. --N8 06:29, 7 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done @Endwise: It seems like the only primary concern expressed from editors above (myself included) was timing. Well - I went ahead and updated this and here's why: In more of my reading I'm finding sources take the default position that this topic is a legend. The FAQ on this page and article sources indeed already use the term "urban legend". I'm also seeing the propaganda label applied more frequently. On top of that, the text of this article still explicitly leaves room for the possibility that the character is a real person. As best I can tell, that open possibility is still consistent with sources. Lastly— It's easy to change back later if needed.

I've also wikilinked propaganda right in the lead because I think one point of confusion may be whether or not propaganda implies intent to deceive or strategic disinformation. Based on what I'm reading, even if GoK is a real person, the story about that person still qualifies as propaganda. ...and that lines up with some of the more recent WP:RSs as well.

Lastly - thanks for the suggestion. Hopefully my lengthy comment above is adequate reference for future editors asking about the categories topic. --N8 07:33, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with your decision (and think it probably should have been done at the outset). SWinxy (talk) 14:35, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Propaganda

Why do you tip toe around the topic with politically correct language like "morale booster for ukrainians" – when you should be calling it what is it outright, ukrainian propaganda. 2A00:23C4:4EE0:A201:72:3C57:37CA:63D8 (talk) 04:11, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have reliable sources that call it propaganda? Guettarda (talk) 04:37, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Absolutely hysterical that Twitter propaganda promulgating video game footage (DCS) would not only have a Wiki page, but being called anything other than pie-in-the-sky propaganda. 135.23.80.41 (talk) 02:25, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 March 2022