User talk:Nightscream

Welcome to my Talk Page. If you're new to Wikipedia, you can leave me a message about a new topic by placing it at the bottom of this talk page, under a new heading with a title that refers to the article or topic in question. To create a header, just put two sets of equals signs on each side of the section's title. Please sign your message by typing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of the message, which also automatically time stamps them. Thanks. :-)

• Archive 1 (2005): March 5, 2005 - December 29, 2005
• Archive 2 (2006): January 2, 2006 - January 18, 2007
• Archive 3 (2007): January 18, 2007 - December 26, 2007
• Archive 4 (2008): January 2, 2008 - December 31, 2008
• Archive 5 (2009): January 2, 2009 - January 2, 2010
• Archive 6 (2010): January 1, 2010 - December 29, 2010
• Archive 7 (2011): January 2, 2011 - December 30, 2011
• Archive 8 (2012): January 1, 2012 - December 31, 2012
• Archive 9 (2013): January 2, 2013 - December 3, 2013
• Archive 10 (2014): January 1, 2014 - December 31, 2014
• Archive 11 (2015): January 1, 2015 - December 31, 2015
• Archive 12 (2016): January 12, 2016 - December 24, 2016
• Archive 13 (2017): January 1, 2017 - December 30, 2017
• Archive 14 (2018): January 11, 2018 - December 31, 2018
• Archive 15 (2019): January 1, 2019 - December 31, 2019
• Archive 16 (2020): March 25, 2020 - December 27, 2020
• Archive 17 (2021): January 1, 2021 - December 31, 2021

"Comics Wikiproject" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Comics Wikiproject and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 12#Comics Wikiproject until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 11:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Message from the Past

Found this while investigating. Passing along. [User Contribs: Tyciol](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Tyciol&target=Tyciol) >04:12, 4 January 2010 diff hist −3‎ User talk:Tyciol ‎ unfortunately I don't know how to disable bots like this from posting, but in the case of the Ivan Brandon article, it looks like User:Nightscream created that out of a redirect I made, plz tell him — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7080:F201:54D7:D560:A0F:48D1:C989 (talk)

Latest appearance of Garfield characters

Hi!

Noticed your massive revert of uncited material for latest appearance and the need for secondary sources. Well, sometimes it is as simple as just checking the web site, IF they have been in the comic before, but it will take some time clicking to verify... :) Garfield's fan wiki has records of the dates, I noticed now, but, it's a wikipage, and not reliable. It doesn't seem that the requested information is (was) collected anywere else than these two sources. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Garfield_characters

--Kejo (talk) 10:59, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@Kejo: In addition to the fact that websites with user-generated info, (including other wikis, Patch Media, IMDb), are not considered reliable under WP:USERG, there's the fact that the content in an article that goes to the topic's notability must be accompanied by citations of secondary sources, and not primary sources. I know you don't edit here that often, but since you've been doing so for six years, it's important to adhere to the policies and guidelines summarized at WP:GNG. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 16:20, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

"Ford Buick" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Ford Buick and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 31#Ford Buick until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. A7V2 (talk) 03:35, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

My messages to Allen2

Nightscream, how do you know that I don't edit here often, which I popup on Wikipedia at anytime when I just learned from the news? Maybe you shouldn't say how many edits I've made on Wikipedia since I started editing here, so does other users when you noted them about their edits that often came up without citing a reliable source or two, because what you said to me and them was creepy. —Also, since you manually undo-ed my hat-note edit, why do you think those words should not be included in that hat-note as you said it's "grammatically incoherent"? Is that edit too wordy for you on that hat-note in that article? Between "Chumlee" and "Chumley", these names are often distinguished with a similar pronunciation that is not to be confused with. --Allen ^{(talk / ctrb)} 21:55, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

@Allen2:

"Nightscream, how do you know that I don't edit here often..."

There are a number of different edit counters you can use, both to look up a given article or page's stats or those of an editor. The one I use right now is X's Edit Counter. You can look up my stats, your stats, or anyone else's since this is all transaparent. I'm sorry if my words came across as "creepy". Wikipedia has policies requiring civility and the assumption of good faith, which means, among other things that we shouldn't overreact with newcomers (or, in my opinion, those who don't edit here regularly or that often, and may not know all the policies or guidelines). Since upholding policy requires us to sometimes tell editors when their edits violate these policies, and since this can sometimes result in bad feelings if we're not careful, I try to couch my messages in a tone of understanding and friendliness. I was just trying to say, "Okay, I know you may not edit here as often as I do or as regularly or whatever, so in case you didn't know about this policy or that policy, I thought I'd let you know about it."

"Also, since you manually undo-ed my hat-note edit, why do you think those words should not be included in that hat-note as you said it's "grammatically incoherent"?

No, it is not too wordy, but it is disjointed. Look at how the hat note reads in the saved version of the article after you edited it. It says:

This article is about the reality television personality. For other subjects named "Chumley", which is not to be confused with, see Chumley. For the American entrepreneur, see Austin Russell (entrepreneur).

That second sentence, as you can see, is not coherent. That is to say, it does not exhibit a clear, comprehensible structure that adheres to rules of grammar or synatx. I notice you seem to write in this way as a pattern, as with the first three sentences of your message above. From this I gather that writing coherent sentences is not your strong suit; I sympathize, and apologize for having to point this out, since I don't want to make you feel bad, but since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, making sure that what we compose obeys the basic rules of writing is necessary.

Btw, thanks for fixing my ref tag error on Jan 26. It is much appreciated. :-) Nightscream (talk) 23:01, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Palisades Center

Hey there hope this is the best way to reach you. I understand your policy edits however I'd like to discuss this. I think my edit is better for the page because theres not too many gossipy details. As for the peacock phrase I believe legendary is the correct word. As for slang I think theres an exception to use eyed since we're discussing real estate development. I think its better to leave so much detail about city councils vision for the mall off Wikipedia as it frankly violates policy. Mentioning town council is also much more than im trying to convey. Perhaps we come to a conclusion together before we update again. Thanks! Complexhistorian (talk) 17:53, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

@Complexhistorian: First of all, reverting an article during a discussion is considered edit-warring and is a blockable offense. Since you're still new to Wikipedia, I'm not going to make a huge deal of it, though I hope we can resolve this here.

"I think my edit is better for the page because theres not too many gossipy details."

Again, none of the information I included in my edit consistuted "gossip". If you disagree, then please point out which details I included fall under that word's definition.

"As for the peacock phrase I believe legendary is the correct word."

It constitutes a subjective opinion that is not attributed to any source, rather than a fact, so it is puffery, and therefore, not "correct". Did you read WP:PEACOCK?

Moreover, it is not relevant to the article, since the article is about the mall, and not that store chain. Mention that a certain chain is "legendary" may be relevant in an article on that store, and only then if it reflects what sources say in a way that goes to its notability. But such a thing should never been casually mentioned in a tangentially-related article without a source.

"As for slang I think theres an exception to use eyed since we're discussing real estate development."

Real estate is not an exception to WP:TONE, which instructs to avoid slang or jargon. Again, did you that guideline?

"I think its better to leave so much detail about city councils vision for the mall off Wikipedia as it frankly violates policy.

Which policy, and how does it violate it?

Also, why does mention of the Hilton plans not violate this same policy?

"Mentioning town council is also much more than im trying to convey.

Yes, I know it's more than what you tried to convey. I added it because I believe it goes to how institutions like the PC are effected by the changing economy, which is relevant to the topic's notability. Do you disagree?

Also, that source you cited for the Hilton matter, which was published in April 2020, states, "The Palisades Center had been trying to develop a Hilton Hotel at the Lord & Taylor space before the pandemic but that project is not likely to proceed." In other words, those plans are no longer in development.

Lastly, I noticed that in your most recent revert, you deleted the Daily Voice citation from which the store's closure was derived, and the RCBJ article you replaced it with does not support that fact. Why did you do this? Nightscream (talk) 18:38, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

I strongly disagree with you mentioning the city council. Its tabloid like and violates policy its one point of view that the center has been impacted by the economy. As for the hilton hotel mention, the article states they were certainly trying to build it and its their opinion its not likely to build. This is the only real development on the site. As for your other comments, I understand, I think its important we dont go into too much detail as well as bringing up city council, it suggests the center could be struggling which seems incorrect. I think we either keep it simple and mention just the store closing, or we include any developments that doesnt undermine the current success of the mall. Complexhistorian (talk) 20:30, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

@Complexhistorian:

"I strongly disagree with you mentioning the city council. Its tabloid like..."

It is not "tabloid-like".

Tabloid journalism refers to sensationalist journalism (usually dramatized and sometimes unverifiable or even blatantly false). The passage in question says that Clarkstown Councilman Donald Franchino stated that the mall needed to diversify in its pursuit of moving toward a greater a mixture of retail and entertainment which is not sensationalistic, dramatizied, unverifiable, or apparently false, and that information comdes from an article published in the Daily Voice. The Wikiepdia article on the Daily Voice indicates that it is a community journalism company specializing in hyperlocal media, that is based in Norwalk, Connecticut, and currently operates a significant number of town-based news web sites in Westchester County, Dutchess County, Putnam County, Rockland County in New York; Bergen County, Passaic County in New Jersey; and Fairfield County, Connecticut.

So how is it "tabloid-like" or "gossipy" What definitions of those terms are you using?

"...and violates policy,"

Again, what policy? I asked you this above, and you haven't answered it. I've been editing Wikipedia since 2005, and am not aware of any policy violated by that passage. Can you please cite this policy?

"its one point of view that the center has been impacted by the economy."

You're suggesting that it's possible for a huge shopping mall to not be affected by changes in the national and international economy, which includes the retail apocalypse, and a pandemic that caused skyrocketing unemployment, damage to the supply chain that we're still feeling, ? Seriously? Again, do you even understand what it means to say that this is "one point of view"? Of course a mall is affected by the economy! All businesses are!

And if I'm wrong, then fine: Please articulate how the Palisades Center has not be affected by the economy.

"As for the hilton hotel mention, the article states they were certainly trying to build it and its their opinion its not likely to build."

Right. Not likely to build. So you're talking about including mention of plans that fell through, but not including source-supported mention of something a local politician said the mall needs to do in order to maintain economic viability. Again, I've been editing Wikipedia for some time, now, and we do not mention any ol' thing irrespective of whether it's relevant to the article topic. Please see WP:NOT and WP:CRYSTAL. Wikipedia is cautious about whether to mention possible future events, so it's far less likely to mention intended plans that have been canceled or abandoned.

"This is the only real development on the site."

In your opinion. It is not your place (or mine) to decide what is a "real development" on the site. Our jobs as Wikipedia editors is to relate what is stated in reliable, secondary sources that are cited in the article. That goes to the core policies of WP:Verifiability, No Original Research, Neutrality, etc.

"As for your other comments, I understand, I think its important we dont go into too much detail as well as bringing up city council, it suggests the center could be struggling which seems incorrect. I think we either keep it simple and mention just the store closing, or we include any developments that doesnt undermine the current success of the mall.

Excuse me?

Um, no, that's not how it works.

We are not here to promote (or for that matter, denigrate) the mall or any other business. Our job is to relate the FACTS that are given in sources. Period. Nothing more. Nothing less. Whether giving certain information gives the reader cause to think a business is struggling is not for us to decide one way or another. Wikipedia is not a platform for promotion. It is an encyclopedia that gives tertiary information based primarily on secondary sources. But with this comment, you make it clear that you do not understand this very fundamental principle.

I also that notice you still haven't explained why you deleted the citation of the Daily Voice that supports the closure of the Lord & Taylor. Why is this?

Your edits and the rationales you have offered for them not only are out of line with these policies, they make little coherent sense and give little indication that you have genuinely read the various pages I have linked you to in earnest. Again, you really need to read and familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. As it stands, we are not retaining your policy violations. Nightscream (talk) 20:57, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

It wasnt my intention to remove that source hence me not mentioning it. I am strongly opposed to your edit, bringing up city council because of one store closure is too much. Mentioning city council firmly suggests the entire mall is in jeopardy which isnt true. Complexhistorian (talk) 22:22, 23 February 2022 (UTC) 22:20, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

@Complexhistorian:

No, it does not. That is an interpretation entirely of your own fabrication, motivated by a concern to promote the mall, which as I mentioned above, violates clearly-stated Wikipedia policies for which I provided links.

And you still haven't named the policy that you claimed is violated by the inclusion of that information. I'll ask you one more time: Which policy?

And again, how is it "gossip" or "tabloid", vis a vis the definitions of those words? I keep asking you this, and for some reason, you're not answering.

Bottom line: the source cited mentions it, which makes it reasonable for inclusion, given the topic, and the fact that the economic is changing with respect to shopping malls. (Sources: [1][2][3][4]) That is the criterion by which inclusion of material is determined, and not whether someone decides to take a citation-supported fact and read into it a completely different idea that bears no resemblance to it. Such a behavior is not Wikipedia's fault, and not Wikipedia's problem. Nightscream (talk) 22:35, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

How come you are insisting I'm motivated by promoting the mall? As editors we have a responsibility, your edit simply suggests the entire mall is failing which is irresponsible as well as incorrect.Complexhistorian (talk) 22:40, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

@Complexhistorian:

"How come you are insisting I'm motivated by promoting the mall?"

Because you admitted it above when you said, "I think we either keep it simple and mention just the store closing, or we include any developments that doesnt undermine the current success of the mall."

One more time for the cheap seats:

It is not our job to avoid "undermining" the success of an article subject, and more than it is to promote it. Our job is to summarize coverage of an article subject that appears in reliable, secondary sources. Period. Anything along the lines of what you indicate violates WP:NOT. I'll ask you point blank: Did you or did you not read WP:NOT after I linked you to it?

"...your edit simply suggests the entire mall is failing..."

No it doesn't. The two statements bear no resemblance to one another. You are simply taking one to say that the statement "The mall needed to diversify in its pursuit of moving toward a greater a mixture of retail and entertainment" is somehow the same thing as suggesting "the entire mall is failing" is a distortion so blatant that it is reasonble to call it a lie, or at mininum, evidence of a severe reading comprehension problem.

The simple fact is that the first statement does have anything to do with the second, and if you can't admit that, then you need to improve your reading ability, and/or find a Net hobby other than editing an encyclopedia.

And you still haven't explained which "policy" was violated that by the passage, or how it constituted "gossip" or "tabloid" journalism. This is now the fourth time I'm pointing this out to you. Why won't you answer this question? Is it because you know those claims were false when you made them? If not, then why won't you answer them?

I think I gave you the benefit of the doubt when I first encountered your edits, and wanted to be encouraging to a newcomer. At this point, however, I think I'm done pointing out your varoius policy violations, falsehoods, and non sequiturs. Either answer my points directly, or please stop bothering me. Your edits with respect to that passage are not going to be kept if you don't. Take care. Nightscream (talk) 22:55, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

This isnt complicated like you seem to be making it, I disagree with your edit why arnt you willing to work with me? I think lord and taylors closure and the city councils comments have little to do with each other, the mall is successful so I disagree with their statements. I think its best to leave it as lord and taylor closed, using that particular quote along with lord and taylor paints this mall as failing, to be fair you shouldnt use this quote.Complexhistorian (talk) 23:26, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

"This isnt complicated like you seem to be making it."

Agreed. The matter is rather simple. Your edits violate Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Period.

That is not a complicated point, and I never said it was.

"I think lord and taylors closure and the city councils comments have little to do with each other."

The cited source explicitly says that they are.

Observe: "Clarkstown Councilman Donald Franchino confirmed the closure of the store, saying the center needs to diversify and become a mixture of retail and entertainment."

In other words, the mall's needs to diversify was explained in the context of L&T's closure, and to assert the contrary flies directly in the face of what the cited source explicitly states. Whether you "think" otherwise is irrelevant. We go by what sources say. Not your fabricated notions of whether the information is true or false.

"...the mall is successful so I disagree with their statements."

One more time for the cheap seats:

We don't care.

Wikipedia does not care about your personal opinion.

Wikipedia presents information from secondary sources. It does not present the opinions of its editors, nor decide issues of inclusion on that basis, since doing so violates Wikipedia's policies on editor neutrality, original research, and other conflicts of interest, such as the requirement that we not treat the encyclopedia like a promotional platorm. I've explained and linked you to these various policies throughout this discussion, but not once have ever couched your responses in terms of those policies, or even given any indication that you've read them, even I've explcitly asked you about this repeatedly, and you have repeatedly refused to directly answer these questions.

The bottom line remains: Wikipedia is someone else's property -- specifically, that of the Wikimedia Foundation. When you visit someone else's property, you are obligated to respect the rules that they set down for it. Those of us who come here to edit must follow the Wikimedia Foundation's rules. If we can't then we can't edit here.

The statement made by that councilman is about what the mall needs to do in order to diversify. Nothing about "success" or lackthereof. Your opinion to the contrary is irrelevant, and has no place on Wikipedia. Period. Nightscream (talk) 15:34, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Peter Parker (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Hi there. My issue is with the way the sentence regarding Uncle Ben is worded, "Although to date the main timeline version of the MCU has not explicitly mentioned his Uncle Ben, Spider-Man: Homecoming wirter John Francis Daley stated that Peter's reference in that film to all that May had been through was a reference to Ben". That sounds so sloppy, "all May had been through" - meaning what? Perhaps this line would be better served under Characterization as opposed to Fictional character biography, since Uncle Ben has not actually been mentioned in the MCU as of yet. There is already a reference to him in that section - "The MCU depiction of Peter Parker omits explicit reference to Uncle Ben, whose death was a significant event both in the comic books and in previous film series. The one exception is "What If... Zombies?!", in which a variant of Parker mentions everyone who has died in his life in the universe seen in that episode". It would be pretty simple to expand on this by adding in John Francis Daley's information. Thoughts? Thanks.

Bloodyboppa (talk) 16:29, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

The section mentions May as his primary parental figure, so a note mentioning Ben, and clarifying that an oblique allusion made by Peter in dialogue was a reference to Ben, is perfectly reasonable. It really has nothing to do with characterization. And yes, we most certainly can mention actor names and other behind-the-scenes info in character biographies. Character biographies not only don't have to be entirely written in an in-univese manner, but WP:OUTUNIVERSE flat-out says not to.

Regarding the wording and the redundancy, sorry about that; I missed it. I copyedited it just now to clarify what Peter was alluding to, and to remove the redundant mention of Ben, which had been worded to imply that it was established on-screen when it really wasn't. Hope that helps. Nightscream (talk) 16:39, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Western Electric

Thanks for reviewing my edits to Western Electric. I am sorry that you had to revert my edits for lack of references. I am a retired telecommunications engineer with employment experience at Bell Telephone Laboratories, or, simply, Bell Labs, (which designed products manufactured by Western Electric), GTE Lenkurt, BNR Inc. (designed products manufactured by Northern Telecom) and Wiltron. I am new to editing Wikipedia. If you approve of what I wrote, and I think you do except for the stated reason, I'll add references. Most of the references will be to articles already in Wikipedia, for example Hush-A-Phone, acoustic couplers (I'll change modem to coupler), GTE Lenkurt (as Lenkurt Electric Company), Wiltron (Anritsu article), Ericofon, Independent Telephone Company and United States Telecom Association (USITA at the time of Western Electric's dominance). I don't know if I should just edit the article, and let the page be reverted if necessary, or submit changes for review. If I edit the article, I'll change a little at a time.

Some of these referenced articles really need expansion and I'd like to contribute. Of particular interest, Lenkurt Electric Company lacks information about its years after acquisition by GTE, when I was an employee. Some of what I wrote is from my engineering and personal experience. I need to either leave it out or maybe there is a way to reference it in accordance with Wikipedia guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert Sled (talk • contribs) 17:23, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

@Robert Sled:

Welcome to Wikipedia, Robert!

I appreciate your willingness to do the work necessary to comply with the policies and guidelines I mentioned. I would recommend, however, that you begin by reading those policy and guideline pages I linked you to. They will explain, among other things, that sources have to be secondary sources, which I mentioned in my message to you.

I notice you said that "Most of the references will be to articles already in Wikipedia." If you mean citing other Wikipedia articles as sources in the Western Electric one, please be advised that citing one Wikipedia article as a source in another is circular sourcing, and is not permitted. If I've misunderstood your statement, then I apologize. Feel free to ask me anything else if it comes up.

Also, please make sure you sign your talk page posts, which makes it easier for everyone to know who they're addressing. You can do this by typing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of them, which also automatically time stamps them. Nightscream (talk) 17:56, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Red Sonja reversion

I noticed that you reverted my wiki-linking of Die!namite on the Red Sonja page as WP:EASTEREGG. I respectfully disagree with this labelling and would love to hear your reasoning behind using it. The Die!namite link was not a piped link to an unrelated subject, rather it was a link to a dedicated page for that subject that currently is a redirect (instead of a redlink destination). Thank you for your time and I look forward to better understanding your reasoning. The Ghost of Art Toys Past (talk) 07:12, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Ghost. Thank you for your polite attempt to reach out to me. I wish more editors did this when they disagreed with another editor.

While the link in question was not a piped link but a redirect, I think in principle the same type of problem is exhibited by it: The redirect is not transparent, and requires the reader to click on it before understanding where it leads. Instead of leading to an article or section on Die!namite, it leads to an article on crossovers, which includes a list of mostly uncited examples, one of which is Die!namite. But thinking it over a bit more, I can understand why you might object to my edit. I'm not going to belabor the point; If you want to revert it, I won't object or revert it. Nightscream (talk) 08:59, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply, @Nightscream:. I appreciate your willingness to discuss this. Unless I am mistaken, given your reasoning, you should've requested the deletion of the redirect page instead of deleting the wiki-linking to the Die!namite page. This way, the redirect would've been stopped but the page's WP:REDLINK would've been maintained. I will re-add — as per your permission — the wiki-link on Red Sonja and I happily propose that you request the redirect page's deletion if you still find the destination contentious. The Ghost of Art Toys Past (talk) 10:00, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

You don't really need my "permission", but again, I appreciate your willingness to talk it out. And yeah, perhaps I should have suggested deleting that redirect. Again, I'm not going to pursue it. Peace. Nightscream (talk) 13:08, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Meanwhile...

	The Working Man's Barnstar
	17 years and more of contributions should be applauded and that you haven't had one of these yet means I can pop in and have the honour of awarding it to you. Long may you carry on! Hiding T 14:28, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

@Hiding: Thanks, buddy. :) Nightscream (talk) 14:40, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Stereotypes of Hispanic and Latino Americans in the United States

Hi Nightscream. Just to let you know I've deleted a lot from this article. You're edit on the 14th duplicated everything starting at the Hispanics and crime section. I believe all the over changes you made are still present, but you may want to check. Thanks LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmission∆ °co-ords° 14:59, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

@ActivelyDisinterested: Okay, sorry about that. Thanks for catching my error and fixing it. Nightscream (talk) 15:03, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Rejuvenate WikiProject Skepticism

Hello - my name is Susan Gerbic (Sgerbic) and I'm writing to you because at some point you joined Wikipedia:WikiProject Skepticism. This might have been months ago - or even years ago. With the best of intentions the project was created years ago, and sadly like many WikiProjects has started to go dormant. A group of us are attempting to revitalize the Skepticism project, already we have begun to clean up the main page and I've just redone the participant page. No one is in charge of this project, it is member directed, which might have been the reason it almost went dormant. We are attempting to bring back conversations on the talk page and have two subprojects as well, in the hopes that it might spark involvement and a way of getting to know each other better. One was created several years ago but is very well organized and a lot of progress was made, Wikipedia:WikiProject Skepticism/Skeptical organisations in Europe. The other I created a couple weeks ago, it is very simple and has a silly name Wikipedia:WikiProject Skepticism/Skepticism Stub Sub-Project Project (SSSPP). This sub-project runs from March 1 to June 1, 2022. We are attempting to rewrite skepticism stubs and add them to this list. As you can see we have already made progress.

The reason I'm writing to you now is because we would love to have you come back to the project and become involved, either by working on one of the sub-projects, proposing your own (and managing it), or just hanging out on the talk page getting to know the other editors and maybe donate some of your wisdom to some of the conversations. As I said, no one is in charge, so if you have something in mind you would like to see done, please suggest it on the talk page and hopefully others will agree. Please add the project to your watchlist, update your personal user page showing you are a proud member of WikiProject Skepticism. And DIVE in, this is what the work list looks like [5] frightening at first glance, but we have already started chipping away at it.

The Wikipedia:WikiProject Skepticism/Participants page has gone though a giant change - you may want to update your information. And of course if this project no longer interests you, please remove your name from the participant list, we would hate to see you go, but completely understand.

Thank you for your time, I hope to edit with you in the future.Sgerbic (talk) 07:20, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Deleted photo from Liberty State Park

Hello, In your recent edit to remove uncited material, you seem to have also deleted this photo: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Common_tern_in_flight_with_Manhattan_in_the_background.jpg. Just wanted to check if that was intentional. Shantham11 (talk)

@Shantham11: It was. There wasn't enough for room for all the photos once the uncited material was moved to the talk page. However, in looking over the article again, I observe that there is space in the Protection Act section where it could be placed, so I restored the pic, placing it in that section. Nightscream (talk) 03:01, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for restoring it. I appreciate it. Jay (User talk:Shantham11) 05:43, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

@Shantham11: Any time, buddy. Nightscream (talk) 20:46, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Horror film on Wikipedia

Dear Nightscream I have a request for you for the article horror film on Wikipedia can you restore the 2010s section and the 2020s section? 107.122.97.8 03:40, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

@107.122.97.8: Can you show me the diff in question? Nightscream (talk) 16:33, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Someone merged the 2010s section and the 2020s section on the horror film article for no reason can you bring the 2010s section and the 2020s section back? NightscreamJr. (talk) 17:41, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Undo the 2010s to present section and bring back the 2010s section and the 2020s section. NightscreamJr. (talk) 17:44, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Don't worry about the History of horror films article I've already restored the 2010s and 2020s on there all you have to do is restore the 2010s section and the 2020s section on the horror film article that's all. NightscreamJr. (talk) 18:19, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

No. Nightscream (talk) 18:21, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Why not? NightscreamJr. (talk) 18:23, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Because you refuse to respond to my request for the diff in question.

Because you keep bouncing around from one project to another, even after I told you stop doing so, and now have adopted a username that appears designed to mock me, suggesting that your intentions may simply be to troll.

I'm done talking with you. Take care. Nightscream (talk) 18:27, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm trying to tell you you just make it so hard for me to understand you see I'm Autistic. NightscreamJr. (talk) 18:28, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm on Wikipedia now now we can talk. NightscreamJr. (talk) 18:30, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm not trying to mock you I want to be your successor. NightscreamJr. (talk) 18:31, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm successful enough without you. But tell you what, I'll put you in my last will and testament. Toodles. :-) Nightscream (talk) 18:47, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Tim Vigil article

Thank you for recently editing the Tim Vigil article, especially as your use of {{Refimprove}} is far superior to my multitude of {{Citation needed}} inputs. As for your comment on my use of {{Unreliable source?}}, please bear in mind that it isn't questioning if the source itself as reliable rather it indicates that "it is questionable whether the source used is reliable for supporting the statement" (emphasis mine). I'm not sure if a webpage on Tim Vigil's Filmography that simply lists "Faust: Love of the Damned (2001); Role: Book as Source Material" is really enough to support "The book's main storyline, Faust: Love of the Damned, was adapted by director Brian Yuzna as the 2001 film of the same name."

And, out of curiosity, where did the phrase "demonic-themed series" come from? Without a source, I'd personally say it breaks WP:NEUTRAL.

Also, while I fully understand how it can easily happen, if you are going to name a user in your comment ("Remove uncited material by The Ghost of Art Toys Past") make sure that they are indeed the source of said uncited material; in this instance, the uncited material all pre-dated my first edit on the page, though I should've removed it as you did instead of trying to tighten the wording and adding {{Citation needed}} templates. The Ghost of Art Toys Past (talk) 15:53, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

@The Ghost of Art Toys Past: The uncited material I removed was that which you added in these edits. There was no source, for example, for the claim that the book is a "mature readers" one. This is a subjective idea, and is not found in any well-developed article on a comics series of a similar tone, such as Preacher, The Boys, Saga, etc. "Demonic", by contrast, is not an opinion, nor subjective, as there are demons in the book. But I chose this mainly to substitute the "mature readers" bit, so I suppose we can just dispense with that descriptor if you like.

Point taken about the New York Times cite, but in that case, the tag should be that the material is unsupported, not that the source isn't reliable. However, films can be their own primary sources for their content, per WP:FILMPLOT, so the NY Times cite is mostly something to supplement the passage with a secondary source. Perhaps the passage can be reworded to say that the series was adapted into the film, without emphasizing the storyline? Nightscream (talk) 21:09, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

@Nightscream: My apologies, you are correct; in moving information around and tightening things, I did change the word "adult" into "mature readers". I am not overly concerned about the "demonic-themed" mention, but it does read odd to me.

As for this your "material is unsupported" mention, which template is that? According to {{unreliable source?}}, it is the proper template to use when questioning the source's "supporting [of] the statement". Should I have used {{Better source needed}}? I would appreciate your valued insight on this matter.

At the moment, I am not worried about minor edits on this article… I am hoping to flesh it out more completely (with all appropriate citations) in the coming weeks. But thank you for taking the time to reply to me; it is appreciated. The Ghost of Art Toys Past (talk) 21:30, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

@The Ghost of Art Toys Past: I believe the tag in question is . Nightscream (talk) 22:16, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:VeronicaCale.jpg

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Dates of birth in article body, et al.

You're using some old fashioned talk page, however that is fine. Your edits aren't though. I propose a debate.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 01:52, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

@Pictureperfect2: On what? Nightscream (talk) 04:03, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

There are a few or more than that topics on here that users don't agree on. One is dob. The date of birth ONLY needs to be published or put into an article ONE time, never more. Those who say the opposite are quite likely not even in the journalism field. It's so silly to say we're placing the dob in more than once to heighten the text or we are selectively doing this in only a few articles or with more notable people. It's just wrong.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 04:30, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Wrong. The Lede is a summary of the article's most salient points, which means it necessarily repeats information in the article. Date of birth is a basic data point found in biographical works/articles, which is why I've always included it in the opening section of the body in the 17 years I've been editing here. Please cease blanking it from articles. Nightscream (talk) 04:35, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

You are the one who is incorrect. Lede is not capitalized. Just because you have been doing this for years doesn't make it right and you should never have been doing that. You arbitrarily and all on your own decided to do this and hopefully you will retire so we can fix the mistakes. Go look up this sort of thing in encylopedias which were authorities before Wikipedia.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 04:39, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

You're also missing this key point. Being able to repeat information doesn't mean carte blanche you can repeat every single thing or most things. Why do you get to pick which things to repeat. Sure, a hometown can be repeated because you are adding links on the bottom of the page. You could pick other things to repeat. The dob is totally not needed twice. It is frankly amateurish to add it a 2nd time.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 04:48, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Block yourself to use your idiom. Why are you not listening? I mean for real, you don't know everything. I am sure I can find somewhere where you said that.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 04:52, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Well, ya got me there. "Lede" isnt' capitalized. Whew! For a second there, you almost went off on a tangent! Good thing you stayed on point, right?

I did not do so "arbitrarily", and did not do so "on my own." The second point is falsified by the fact that this is a widely accepted practice on Wikipedia. The first is falsified by the rationale I provided above regarding the function of the lede section. It also applies to the Infobox. Both tend to repeat information found in the article body, which means they necessarily repeat it, and if an article does so, that means it does not appear in the article "ONE time, never more." Simply put, mentioning the date of birth in the lede or the Infobox is not a substitute for doing so in the article body. And yes, I agree you don't have to repeat every single thing. I never said you did. What I did say was that basic data points like place and date of birth tend to be given in the article body, just as in the Infobox and the lede.

You're new here, so I say, WELCOME! But do yourself a favor: Don't throw your weight around, acting like you know better than everyone else. Putting aside the mangled spacing, casing and grammar you effected in the Mark Millar article (which makes your remark about my writing of "Lede" all the more glaring), perhaps you should make a greater point of learning Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and how they reflect the consensus of the editing community here, rather than making rude comments like "block yourself", which may violate the site's Civility policy. I'd be more than happy to help you with any questions you have in that regard. Have a a good night. Nightscream (talk) 04:59, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Look, you are big on assuming things. I don't mind trying to come to some agreement however keep in mind anyone could be talking to you. I could be a head of state or something. You go on with guessing who knows more than whom. Keep in mind that commas are over used all over the place. If you want to spend time writing great ledes and getting articles up to par, fine. Stop with the dob debate and leave it out a 2nd time. Let's see what we can come to agree on.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 05:04, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Think about this idea a minute. Hardly anyone on here agrees on certain things. Maybe we could do more than a little good if we try to figure out what we agree on and do that. Maybe you can concur with me on the dob thing and repeat one or two items at most minus the dob. As for the lede or lead which Wikipedia is nonsensical in explaining and far from consistent... you have something called a news (newspaper or tv, etc. lede) which is also called a lead paragraph. Supposedly according to this site you don't introduce new information but you do. The lede on here has the individual's family names, place of birth, education information, and usually one more factoid. That is specifically new info.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 05:29, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

It does not matter who I'm talking to. Anyone who wishes to edit Wikipedai is required to follow its policies and guidelines. I have not made any assumptions regarding "who knows more than whom," Making such assumptions is not only a type of ad hominem logical fallacy, and irrelevant to the specific points of contention in this discussion, but may also violate WP:AGF. For this reason, I've stayed away from them, preferring to emphasize Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, which reflect the consensus of the community, and its general editing practices.

If you can demonstrate, through policy, guideline, or some editor consensus, that including dates of birth in the article body, is not a widely accepted practice on Wikipedia, and that well-developed articles with both a lede section and the Infobox that mention that info don't already include the dob twice, then do so. If you can similarly argue that the presence of the dob in the opening of the article body in those articles does not mean that it appears three times, which directly falsifies your argument above, then please make your case for that as well.

For my part, I will argue that the editing community here does not follow your stated viewpoint, and as evidence of this, I will point you to the number of featured articles that demonstrate this. Featured articles (as denoted by the gold star in the upper right corner of the article) are considered to be some of the best articles Wikipedia has to offer, as determined by Wikipedia's editors, and are used as examples for writing other articles. Here are some that include the dob in the lede, the Infobox, and the opening of the first section of the article body:

Vincent van Gogh, Charles Darwin, Alfred Russel Wallace, Harold Innis, Ted Kaczynski, W. E. B. Du Bois, Eli Lilly, Samuel Adams, Cleopatra, Jefferson Davis, Harry S. Truman, Harriet Tubman, Antonin Scalia, J. R. R. Tolkien, Archimedes, Katharine Hepburn, Tom Holland, Scarlett Johansson, Walt Disney, Frank Zappa, Bob Dylan, Neil Armstrong, Charles I of England, Elizabeth II, Wayne Gretzky, Derek Jeter, the list goes on and on.

If you want further proof that the Lede is intended to summarize the most salient information in the article body — and that this means, by definition, that it's going to necessarily repeat that information — then I would point you to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, which states:

"The lead should stand on its own as a concise overview of the article's topic. It should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points..."

"Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article."

You're new here. I get that. I was new here once too. And since I want to be a welcoming presence to you, I will reiterate my offer to assist you in any way I reasonably can by answering questions about editing here. But when you join some type of community or organization, it is incumbent upon you to familiarize yourself with the rules of that community. If you believe that a particular practice is wrong, then you need to establish a consensus among editors that the practice in question should end, so that it is reflected in policies and guidelines. This isn't my opinion, mind you, it's specifically outlined at Wikipedia:Consensus. Please read that.

What you should not do is single out a single member of that community, and tell them to suddenly cease long-standing practics of that community, saying, "Stop with the dob debate and leave it out a 2nd time", simply because you say so. That is not the way to go about joining a collaborative project like Wikipedia.

As far as what we agree on, well, I noticed that some of your copyediting in the articles in question were pretty solid, and I kept that portion of it, making a note of explicitly referencing this in at least one of my edit summaries. In another one of my edit summaries, I acknowledged that the prior wording from before your edit also wasn't that great, and could use a tweak as a compromise. That's something, isn't it?

Now, going forward, if you don't believe that my statements here are generally reflective of the editing community here, we can invite others into this discussion and see what they have to say about the various areas we've discussed here. If their stated positions align more with your viewpoint, then that would lend credence to your view of what the content of those articles should be. If not, then it wouldn't, correct? So let me know how you'd like to proceed. Nightscream (talk) 14:36, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Moving uncited material to talk pages

Please do not add any uncited materials from each articles to the talk pages. Unless, keep the removal if "unsourced", please read Wikipedia:Verifiability. --49.150.104.127 (talk) 02:42, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

@49.150.104.127: I will continue to source, fact tag, remove, or move to the talk page uncited material as I've been doing for the many years I've been here, per the very policy you cite, and discussions with other members of the community. Nightscream (talk) 02:45, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

@Nightscream: As per WP:BURDEN, some content from unsourced material will not moved to talk page (if it's needed). 49.150.104.127 (talk) 04:33, 27 April 2022 (UTC)