Talk:Superman & Lois

About the article title

I think we need to change the title of the article to "Superman & Lois (TV series)". We need to label this article as the TV series to distinguish from an existing article "Superman and Lois Lane", which is about the couple's relationship over the years. The two titles are too similar, people looking for the TV show can easily be misdirected to the other article. I guess we don't have to change the name right now we can wait till the page is ready to be moved as a live Wikipedia article? Rootone (talk) 18:07, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Rootone Seeing as you've already attempted to move this to this namespace, I felt I'd comment. No I don't think the disambiguation is needed because it is not "Superman and Lois". Not having "Lane" in the title is enough of a difference (along with the ampersand) that the dab isn't needed. Hatnotes can be used instead. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:22, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I put a link to the article in the redirect page. Even though, as per Favre1fan93, yes it’s not the same title, neither is Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. Hopefully, this should solve any problem of people getting these articles confused. Advofspec (talk) 16:14, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Where's The Live+7 rule?

There's no rule prohibiting from adding Live+3 ratings as they are also from DVR. The viewership sections here don't mention Live+7, only DVR viewership and ratings. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 01:48, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

You are adding misleading infomation as Live+3 ratings are not total viewers for Live+7 ratings. The key word there is total viewers. — YoungForever^(talk) 01:51, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

It's not misleading. It's information available at the time, after a particular time period. What if the Live+7 ratings are never released? Will you keep it empty? Don't classify something as misleading when it isn't. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 01:58, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

They always get released.. it's part of the normal process. Spanneraol (talk) 02:06, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

You were reverted once by me and second time by Favre1fan93. The column is specifically for Live +7 ratings because that is the total viewers. Even if they are never released, the column would be n/a then which can happened if ratings are way too low. — YoungForever^(talk) 02:26, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

That doesn't count. You can't make up your own definitions here just because others support you, that's illogical and not how a consensus operates. We don't define what a word or statement means. Besides I don't think getting more than half of live viewership should be neglected. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 03:00, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Your accusations are completely baseless. WP:NODEADLINE, why add the misleading ratings information in the first place? — YoungForever^(talk) 03:12, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

LéKashmiriSocialiste, this has been the standard agreed practice of WP:TV for years across thousands of television series articles. Why should this one article be different per the opinion of one editor? You talk about a consensus and yet have none for your opinion. -- /Alex/₂₁ 03:39, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

The usual ratings sources for DVR ratings for whatever reason have been very slow releasing or simply not releasing at all for large periods of time. Maybe this will improve in the future but all we can really do is wait and hope that whatever schedule these websites have who release sync back into schedule and they get back to releasing Live+7 ratings weekly like they always have done. 81.96.245.175 (talk) 13:20, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Alex 21 As I said earlier practice is not a rule, nor I see one as being established. Practices and consensus should be and can be modified based on the situation. If the Live+7 ratings are never released are you going to keep it empty because of what you prefer? Nearly a million delayed viewers alone is not something that should be ignored even if only from Live+3 ratings. Others should not go by what you or a few others prefer should happen in every situation. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 15:40, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

See WP:CONSENSUS. Also, you can always start a WP:RFC. DonQuixote (talk) 15:44, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

I already read it. Consensus is not another name for supreme rule. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 16:56, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

If the Live+7 ratings are never released are you going to keep it empty because of what you prefer? But how do you know they aren't going to be released, when the past for a myriad of other series has shown that's a highly likely probability. The Live+7, as has been stated, is the full picture of a series viewership, and we shouldn't be anticipating that with Live+3 or any other DVR data that isn't Live+7. It becomes something to discuss/consider should the unlikely event the data is not released, but it shouldn't be a consideration before hand, knowing full well there a stronger possibility it's going to be coming in a few days. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:36, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

See here [1] If you scroll through the dates you'll see that Programming Insider have been like super inconsistent with their DVR releases since last Summer. I'm really not sure what happened with them as they used to be weekly. There's also quite a lot of pages with voids on the table because there's no websites to source the numbers. 81.96.245.175 (talk) 19:43, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

What the non-registered user above said. Live+7 ratings are inconsistently released on the sources like Programming Insider and others. They are not released for all shows either. Practices and consensus should be modified to suit the situation, not be same everywhere. If you don't want to agree then I'll have no choice but to start a RfC. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 22:37, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

The point I was trying to make, and I believe others as well, is you shouldn't automatically jump to Live+3 information, when we haven't even seen what's happening with Live+7. Wait until that has happened, either way, before considering Live+3. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:42, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

That's incorrect. It has resumed to be consistent since the beginning of this year (2021). Although the Live+7 ratings are just few weeks behind. — YoungForever^(talk) 22:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Live +7 ratings are inconsistently released. See here. You won't find any article containing shows from last 2 weeks of January or first week of February. It's highly possible Live+7 ratings for Superman & Lois may never be released. And there's nothing wrong in using information you have available at the time. We can add a note that these are Live+3 ratings, but nothing in the rules say you can't use it. It's not "misleading", just what we have. I'll like you to point out even one source that regularly releases Live+7 ratings for all shows. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 22:52, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

See here for the week first week of February 2021, which says Live+7 (coming soon) — YoungForever^(talk) 23:07, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

I've already seen that. The second week ratings are already released, but not the first week. That means they don't have it. Plain simple as that. We can't keep waiting around forever for them, and it seems they will likely never have it. So we should use Live+3 ratings instead. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 00:04, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

LéKashmiriSocialiste, you talk about us not having a consensus (despite years of standard practice and you clearly not being familiar with WP:TV), and yet you have no consensus yourself. That door opens two ways. Just because you haven't seen this standard practice, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If editors who have provided ratings for years are giving you advice, it's always best to listen rather than brush them off. You clearly have no solid agreement for your proposals, and have been suggested to take it to RFC. You're beating a dead horse by going around in constant circles on the topic. -- /Alex/₂₁ 00:20, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

There is no deadline on Wikipedia. — YoungForever^(talk) 00:30, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Practices can be changed Alex21. It's you who is beating a dead horse despite being clearly proven wrong and using the same old argument of standard practice. You are going in circles.

YoungForever, WP:NOHURRY actually says there are deadlines. Read "Opposing and complementary views", where it says that people should not be misled. Many people won't understand what DVR viewing means and take the live viewership as the true viewers. Or never know what the true viewers were. Wikipedia:The deadline is now. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 01:21, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

LéKashmiriSocialiste, on one article? No. You have no support from editors of WP:TV who have been editing thousands of these articles for years. You can keep trying, but you're not going to find any success here. Happy editing! -- /Alex/₂₁ 01:24, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Yet, you are the only one misleading people here. — YoungForever^(talk) 01:26, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I do have at least one person's support. I only added what was available, people will be misled if only live viewers are included. We can easily add a note that these are Live+3 ratings. You don't want to accept, fine. I'll be opening a RfC today or tomorrow. So people who do want a middle way forward can comment. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 02:25, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

One IP's support (strange that they didn't log in) against years of practice and hundreds of editors following that across thousands of articles is not support. Looking forward to your RFC. -- /Alex/₂₁ 03:26, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, all I see here is two people (you and YoungForever) being endlessly stubborn. The others already left. And IPs count as well, nothing wrong if they don't want to register. But that IP is not me, and I used geolocation to check their IP location so you can't make insinuations again. They're from UK, I'm Indian. Complain if you think they're me but don't try to make insinuations about me or others, or I'll be complaining you to the admin board instead. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 04:01, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

It's almost as if we have extensive experience editing television articles, and you're coming in with no idea. We tried our best to reason with you, but you refuse to see reason on a single article. That's all on you. You cannot name another article that primarily uses L+3 ratings. (I never said the IP was you, interesting that you felt the need to specify, though.) -- /Alex/₂₁ 04:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Please take your privilege elsewhere. I can't name any article with Live+3 ratings, I don't even edit them really. And yes you did say the IP was me, that was your whole point of saying the IP didn't log in, when there are gazillions of IP editors on this site. But if you feel it's suspicious I clarified he's not me (because of your insinuation), go get a sockpuppet investigation. But if you fail to establish he's me, you will quit Wikipedia because you know you lied. Not ordering you, just saying it's morally responsible. How does that sound? Fair deal no? LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 04:39, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

You can't name any and you don't even edit them, yet you claim to know what you're talking about? You have multiple experienced editors saying otherwise. Be open to listening to what they say instead of stonewalling. You clearly have zero desire to actually discuss the topic, so open your RFC and take your nonsense (both these ideas of L+3 and whatever this "sock" thing is) elsewhere. -- /Alex/₂₁ 04:56, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I can't because I don't edit TV articles, but practices change anyway. I was trying to convince you as an RfC can run a month, but you clearly don't care for compromise. We'll meet soon again. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 05:02, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

You have directly said you have no idea what you're talking about or the articles that are affected. There's nothing further to discuss here. Cheers. -- /Alex/₂₁ 05:25, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Nope. You asked for proof, I don't have it. But you are intent on provoking and putting words in my mouth. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 06:31, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

You are just jumping the gun here. Here are the Live+7 ratings specifically for Superman & Lois. — YoungForever^(talk) 00:36, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

To be fair we had no way of knowing that Deadline would release the premiere DVR ratings for the show. They're primarily an industry website which reports on TV/Movie news and don't report beyond the fast nationals released daily and the end of season broadcast rankings. While I think the topic creator could have accepted sooner(to avoid lengthy discussions) that Live+3 aren't used on broadcast pages, I think they weren't wrong to suggest it given the inconsistent releases from the established sources. 81.96.245.175 (talk) 21:08, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

References

I haven't voiced support for either argument. I simply stated that the ratings sources are very inconsistent with their releases. Any endorsement of anyones opinions are purely coincidental. 81.96.245.175 (talk) 19:53, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Alright, I understand. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 20:29, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

The L+7 ratings released just over a week after the episode in question. Who would have guessed? This just further proves that 1) there was now zero support for using L+3 and 2) patience is key, wait and you shall receive. -- /Alex/₂₁ 01:03, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Deadline don't usually release DVR ratings for broadcast or cable shows and when they do its only for the premiere episode. Sources such as Programming Insider have zero numbers for shows like Batwoman and on their "final ratings" pages for Sunday they have been tagged as 'Coming soon' for months. I don't think the topic creator was wrong for coming on here and suggesting alternatives(Though waiting for Live+7 is the sensible and established option). 81.96.245.175 (talk) 21:08, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Article for Superman

The cast section for Superman and Lois has the name for an article for Arrowverse Superman, even though no such article actually exists. Do you think it's time for Arrowverse Superman to have his own article? Leader Vladimir (talk) 03:23, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Bounding into Comics

I removed a claim attributed to Bounding Into Comics, which appears to be added to challenge the claim that Nadria Trucker was fired for pushing back against racist and sexist storylines. Bounding Into Comics is an alt right disinformation site and false rumour mill and should not be treated as a reliable source. 46.97.170.112 (talk) 11:38, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Pilot article

I've moved the Pilot article back to the draftspace, as it was and still remains majorly a fork of this article. Please only move it back once it can stand on its own as a separate article. -- /Alex/₂₁ 05:25, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Production location

Under the Filming section, it states the production is Vancouver based. It also says that it is filmed on location in Surrey. Was the pilot filmed in Vancouver, and the rest of the series filmed in Surrey, or vice versa? I am confused as to where it is actually filmed. Anthony hello123 (talk) 14:24, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Prod codes

Why did you remove the production codes? --Franar8 (talk) 19:51, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Franar8, as per my edit summary when I removed them: Not needed when production order is the same as broadcast order. If they are the same as broadcast order, then they provide literally no new information and are thus redundant. -- /Alex/₂₁ 22:38, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh okay, thanks Alex. --Franar8 (talk) 14:12, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Not Part of the Arrowverse

This sentence is incorrect: "The series is set in the Arrowverse, sharing continuity with the other television series of the franchise."

Recent episodes have made it clear that Clark grew up without any family from Krypton, meaning Supergirl hasn't happened in his reality. In addition, Morgan Edge was a character on Supergirl, and the two versions of Edge do not in any way match up. Also, Lois no longer has a sister named Lucy. Clearly, this must be a different universe, despite what some might think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.162.105 (talk) 01:58, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

You would need to cite a reliable source that says anything like that.

Also, and straying into forum territory here, Supergirl's premise is that Superman met Kara when he was already established as Superman. Secondly, we live in a world where Peyton List played Lucy Lane and Peyton R List voiced Batgirl...so, that's not much of an argument there either.... And where in the episode does it say that Lois doesn't have a sister? As a matter of fact, where in Supergirl does it mention that Lois has a sister?

This all goes to show that it's original research/interpretation. Again, you would need cite a reliable source that says any of this before it'll be addressed in the article proper. DonQuixote (talk) 02:10, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Any changes can be chalked up to the Crisis.... but FYI... Lois's sister Lucy was a prominent figure in season 1 of Supergirl. Spanneraol (talk) 03:19, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Hahaha! Forgot that. Thanks for reminding me. DonQuixote (talk) 03:25, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Well, there is a source that General Lane was recasted for the same role. And also, there is a pre-covid source about Superman and Lois vs. Batwoman expected crossover. IKhitron (talk) 10:30, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Plus Diggle will be on the show soon, there was a brief shot of him in the previews of upcoming episodes. Spanneraol (talk) 12:51, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Not sure, but I don’t think that the atalie character should link to the comic book Natalie, unless that is specifically stated. But I am not clear, as anove whether there should be a separate article for the TV series. This is all very confusing.

'Guest' cast section is out of control

The 'Guest' cast section at this article is completely out of control – the list should be restricted to notable guest cast only, which should probably only be those actors with standalone articles like Wendy Crewson (and maybe also guest characters that are important figures from the comics). Completely trivial entries (which seems to be most of them!) like "Pavel Romano as Corey Wellnitz: A student at Smallville High School." should be removed, posthaste. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:49, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Agree, the Guest cast section should be cut down to Notable guests only with a second season coming the guest stars list will be excessively longer than it needs to be. — YoungForever^(talk) 15:01, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

NOT a co-production with HBO Max

So, according to his article, Superman and Lois is not a co-production with The CW and HBO Max. What should we do about this? Leader Vladimir (talk) 16:01, 21 February 2022 (UTC)