Talk:Bridget (Guilty Gear)

Article start

Got this article made. I think I was vaguely skimpy on the details of the "gender confusion" bit, so if anyone dares to delve into that ... ;) Yar Kramer 08:21, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Hahaha nice, I liked that little barb about all those people who can't get the facts straight. -RTL 16 May 2005 (GMT)

Yeah, I found a web page once listing a buncha different characters from various video games who were gender-confusing (it included Bridget and Justice), and there was a friend of the author who was prone to saying "NO! Bridget's a girl! LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

Furthermore, I'm fond of recounting to people who don't know about Guilty Gear that "in GameSpy's 'Top 10 hottest video game chicks' survey, Bridget came in 17th, despite the fact that technically, he doesn't qualify." :D Yar Kramer 16:17, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Everybody's gay for Bridget! But really, among erotic manga and art fans Bridget has been called "The Yaoi Gateway Drug" since works involving him has caused otherwise heterosexual male fans interested in yaoi. Also, there's the fact that since he just doesn't fit in other categories of erotica, material involving him has been placed in it's own unique category. Hell, on the Burichan imageboard, there is an entire sub-board dedicated to him. --Paul Soth 00:38, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

XD XD XD

Actually, I'm pretty sure BuriChan was created specifically for Bridget (hence the name). But 5chan also had a Bridget board of its own, yeah. Yar Kramer 05:21, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

My understanding was that Bridget had a sister who was prophesized to be powerful, and the world could not know that she had a twin brother, thus he was dressed up to hide this. The reason he's out hunting bounties is to prove to his parents that he is a worthwhile child as well.

Um, no, everywhere I've looked says the same as it says here: Bridget has an identical twin brother, and the reason for his disguise as a girl is that twin boys is bad luck. I've never heard anything about a "sister prophesized to be powerful", where'd you hear that? --Yar Kramer 17:36, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Yeah. Yar's right on this one. That's what it says in every official source, and if I'm not mistaken, the beginning text of his story mode. Digital Watches 13:38, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Notability

I think there's very little doubt about the notability of this article (although no other Guilty Gear character would merit a full article). Unfortunately, this is a cultural literacy issue -- "like Bridget from Guilty Gear" is used as a constant euphemism for this type of person or character in many geek communities. More mention of cultural significance, perhaps backed up by a few examples of allusions in geek-culture magazine articles, could back up notability and indicate why exactly people would be searching Wikipedia for information about him/her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yunatwilight (talk • contribs) 12:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Bias

"Due to his adorable appearance..."

Surely that's an opinion. I'm editting out the bias in this article.

Just wondering

This wiki says that in all three endings, Bridget joins the Jellyfish Pirates. I don't recall ever reading something like this in his scenario. Does anyone have evidence for this? Thank you in advance. :-) Edit: I vaguely remember when Dizzy gave him a pirate hat, but I don't remember anyone asking him to join them.

I don't think it's in all three endings, but yeah, come to think of it, I don't think it's particularly accurate. --Yar Kramer 02:50, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Bridget and That Man

I heard a rumor recently that Bridget has the essence of Ano Otoko inside him (or something to that effect). Any evidence in-game to back that up? The S

None whatsoever. I know Axl has some kinda "parallel existence" with Raven, but, nothing on Bridget. --Yar Kramer 02:40, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Original gender

I was told somewhere (on the internet) that Bridget was in fact a girl named Yo-yo in an early pre-release version of the game who had the same voice and character design, but the sex was changed to male to make the story surrounding the character more interesting Can anyone shed some light on this? --Burbster 02:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I never heard of this, and I was into Guilty Gear back when X was out. Sounds like your friend is making stuff up. Danny Lilithborne 02:20, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Hahaha, wasn't a friend, just something on a video game forum. I doubted it myself. Burbster 18:51, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd give them the benafit of the doubt and make a snide comment about Lilith, who has the same VA as Bridget, but I don't think there is much doubt. --Yar Kramer 04:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, according to the interview with Daisuke Ishiwatari in the Guilty Gear XX artbook, the rumor checks out:

(27)---The character Bridget, introduced in "Guilty Gear XX," looks like a girl but is actually a boy, right? What was your intention in deciding on creating this kind of character?

Ishiwatari: The creation of Bridget as a boy happened at the very last second; during development I was drawing him as purely a girl. It's just that when there is a need to give a worldly backbone (to the game), in order for me to try to not forget each character, and in order to revive the character, I give them my very heart. As a result, the creation of Bridget as actually a boy instead of a girl was because I thought he could become my alter ego. Well, if there was a need for it the reverse-- a girl that looks like a boy-- that would be okay too, but it doesn't look pretty game-wise. It's also somewhat calculated (laughs)...

The full interview can be found here: [1]68.100.222.184 08:18, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Roger

I was wondering if there was anything to back up roger being a robot? If not wouldent that be speculation?--Lucky hat 03:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Ky's "bag of money"

Didn't Ky give Bridget a list of bounties that did exist for him to go and catch? This would make sense, as he could clearly see that Bridget was strong enough to capture people like Millia and Baiken. It would seem silly for Ky to just hand him a sack of cash, even if he is a real nice guy. (And besides, what good are Euros in England? Unless GGXX is foreshadowing a future where the UK accepts the Euro... eep! NB: I'm just kidding about that last part.)

No, the actual list was given to him (and Jam) by I-No. —Yar Kramer 00:43, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I know, but what I meant was, didn't Ky give Bridget a genuine list? Again, I just find that more realistic.

Yes, at the end of Bridget's story, he did.--68.100.222.184 08:20, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Music Reference?

The opening bars of "Simple Life" are nearly identical in all but tempo to the opening of Early Man's "War Eagle," which was released in 2005 (i.e. well after GGXX). Is this just a coincidence, were they both inspired by an earlier song, or might Early Man have decided to give the game a nod, for whatever reason? 70.110.247.129 06:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

• "Simple Life" always reminded me of Journey, but none of this can be anything more than speculation for now. JuJube 03:59, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

Recently I added a trivia about the connection between Bridget Verdant of Mew Mew power and Bridget's Verdant named stage. Can I ask, why it has been deleted? Eddie303 22:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

• Because it's a coincidence. JuJube 23:08, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

something's not right

ok I never played the game but how is Bridget a LGBT video game character. at first I thought he was a lesbian but I learned that he was a boy. so isn't he more of a cross-dresser because he not gay or bi and he can't be a lesbian or a transexual. well what are your thoughts 67.164.35.55 03:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC) JoJo

• The category is false and was removed. My apologies for missing it. :/ Bridget's not a transgender because he identifies as a boy. Sounds like more of the "work" from those "Everyone's gay for Bridget" morons. JuJube 03:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Just as a note, transvestism/cross-dressing is part of the LGBT Studies project, so the article is within their scope. It's just the "transgendered" category that's wrong.ShaleZero 12:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Bridget is assigned female at birth, but identifies as male. Does that not make him a transman? 73.168.193.29 (talk) 22:52, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Pronouns

There seemed to be alot of swapping between he and she and his and hers during this article. I have changed all of the pronouns to their masculine form.Catldr24 03:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, actually, the majority were kinda done by me but errors I did he fixed. Thansk mate MightyKombat 04:20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bridget.gif

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No Mention of Imageboard relevence?

Given that the Bridget meme thing is probably the #1 reason people look at this article, I think it's strange that there isn't any mention of it. --Lollerkeet 10:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't matter. We don't have articles about Sol Badguy because of some stupid homophobic meme. JuJube 10:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't you think it's assuming bad faith to say it's homophobic? I think "everyone's gay for bridget" is pretty funny. --Kinst (talk) 23:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

WP:AGF applies to editors, not content. JuJube (talk) 06:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The lack of any "gay for bridget" mention is still a notable omission of this article. The silence is deafening, and must be rectified Roidroid (talk) 15:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

LGBT?

Okay, so there's a hidden note not to add Category:Fictional transgendered people to the article. Right next to Category:Transgender people and behavior. The character isn't people, and isn't behavior, and (as is stated in the article) isn't transgender. Help?

Further confusion: the Category:LGBT video game characters means that Bridget is one of (lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender). Since the article specifically states not the last, but has no information on Bridget's sexuality, I'm confused as to the category. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm removing them. I've had enough of this chicanery. JuJube (talk) 06:14, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

This message aged poorly. RteeeeKed💬📖 00:41, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Should this get merged?

It's kinda been bugging me as something that might get the axe...the sole discussion about the character is the fact that he's a crossdresser. But the problem is there isn't so much discussion as there is resources stating it as a fact. A list entry might be a better idea until something significant exploring the character is introduced. Thoughts?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:25, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

k, nevermind that then.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:02, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bridget (Guilty Gear)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: DarthBotto (talk · contribs) 01:07, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Intro

• Both paragraphs are well-written, provides an adequate degree of synopsis and essentially covers enough bases. I would say this portion is overall secure.

Concept and design

• At first glance, the details of this portion are scarce. Further information on concept and design should be provided to the extent that at least one more paragraph of equal length is provided.
  • "The series' creator also said that Bridget was a difficult character to animate..." Beginning with this sentence, the other paragraph should open up, or at least this portion should be a feature of the new paragraph about the intricacies of the character.
• There are two references touching each other, one from Neoseeker, the other from the University of California. Considering it's an individual quote, but there are more details preceding this, it would be advisable to spread the references out.

Appearances

• Remember to use the present tense while discussing the actions of a character.
• There are three references slicing into one sentence about Bridget's backstory. I would remove most of them, as they are not substantive in this particular context.
• The Destructoid reference is operating as a hindrance, as it's being /ref'd like hell, but it doesn't have any other references in between, so this is unnecessary. This should be cleaned up.
• The synopsis for the second game is rather scant. I'm not an expert on the series, (which is probably why this review is all the more valuable), but perhaps a slight expansion would be prudent?
• The final paragraph is rather sound. Mind you, I don't speak Japanese, but so far as the English content is concerned, I am rather satisfied.

Reception

• This section jumps right into it, which I wouldn't recommend. I would open with a broad statement about Bridget's overall impact and go from there.
• This section seems rather disproportionately massive. I would remove the more vapid or less poignant details, in order to leave the overarching theme more pronounced and intact.
• While mentioning the LGBT articles, I would dissuade editors from having four references in a row.
• Ensure that the organization of this section is pronounced. Look to have the input of the critics organized via positives, negatives and thematic commentary, such as the question of his sexuality.

Closing thoughts

• Considering that this page has never been rated before, I am pleased with the quality of the article. Before I may grant GA status, please attend to the notes above, as well as my closing thoughts.
• I would recommend writing a new section for "Attributes", which would describe the personality, life style and essence of the character. Yes, they appear to be androgynous and metro-sexual, but I am sure there is more to the character. This proposed section would be placed beneath Design and above Appearances.

Verdict - Due to a complete lack of inactivity after a week's notice, I am failing this review. DARTHBOTTO _talk•cont 01:00, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

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Dealing with Vandalism

Alright this is well and truly out of hand. Can I get literally anyone with authority to just come in here and lock this page until the transphobes get tired of yelling? Comrade pem (talk) 20:46, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

I've already requested page protection, just waiting on an administrator to handle the request. Schazjmd (talk) 20:50, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! I didn't see your reply until I'd already submitted one, I withdrew my duplicate. Comrade pem (talk) 21:12, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

I was one of the users reverting the vandalism, thanks for doing this properly (I wasn't sure how), sorry for the spam! FriendRem (talk) 22:37, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

To be explicit for anyone coming to find out what's going on in the future, Bridget's arcade mode plot in Guilty Gear Strive (in which she was just added as a character) explicitly covers Bridget's exploration of gender identity, culminating in an explicit declaration of femininity in both Japanese and English: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6owj5p86kqhed7/bgt-en-jp-comp.mp3?dl=0

• Japanese: 「女の子ですから」 (onnanoko desu kara, translates as "I am a girl/young woman")
• English: "I'm a girl!" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:FDE4:CA00:F416:FB4B:4C26:A212 (talk) 20:53, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Funny that everyone keeps ignoring the scene from the new footage where he also calls himself a boy. https://i.imgur.com/SUoBIua.jpeg. It's always been a running gag that he corrects people whenever they call him a girl but eventually accept it and say he's a girl because no one listens. 2601:407:C701:4D60:8D2A:EE7C:8090:AC10 (talk) 23:57, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Except the line where she declares herself a boy happens much earlier in the story, there are several lines after that of her questioning her identity and if she's really happy, and the "I'm a girl"! declaration is literally the final thing she says before it cuts to credits, showing that was her arc in the game.

It's pretty explicit coming to terms with her gender identity was part of her arc in the story. DemonRin (talk) 02:05, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

It's long since established that the character is male, even being quoted as being such by creator Daisuke Ishiwatari in this very article. honestly the activist vandalism I'm seeing here is pretty disheartening. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:2C7:681:2360:E91C:92F1:3FBE:710 (talk) 12:06, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

And it's been changed in the most recent game. It dosen't matter if it's been long established, get over it. The new change has been decided to be included by the admins. So stop vandalizing the page. Bigbossbalrog (talk) 16:13, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

It hasn't. The cited material is in the Flawed/"Heart Lose" ending, where Bridget's assertions that he is male are constantly denied (as they have been throughout the series -- his entire story in one game was his trying to prove his masculinity, which is cited on the page, itself) and he succumbs to what is essentially a lifetime of conditioning and pressure, from his home village's backwards beliefs, all the way up to the presumably well-intentioned but frankly disheartening pressuring of Goldlewis and blind encouragement from Ky.

If anything, I personally think it is more of an affront to transgender individuals that what is being celebrated as establishing oneself as Trans is embraced despite it being founded upon how the character's male identity has been suppressed since their birth, even up to this point in the series' chronology. There's a very real connotation to grooming here that is being accepted as normal and associated with the transgender community over this, and it's not okay. The LGBT community already has to deal with enough accusations about grooming for it to be conflated with it over a fictional character's non-canon arcade mode endings.

And for the record, that includes the Flawless ending, too. There's a handful of instances where Arcade Mode endings resembled canon, but the overwhelming majority of them are one-offs with no lasting changes or developments for the character. WrappedInBread (talk) 00:24, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Bringing up grooming shows how much of a bigot you are. A bigot with no power, because the admins are siding with us! Bridget is trans, your going to have to deal with it. It's supported in both localizations, so shut up. Bigbossbalrog (talk) 01:17, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

User:WrappedInBread did not ever imply people being groomed into a certain gender identity occurs in real life. Neither did they imply there was any attempt to do so. Neither did they use some bad faith redefinition of the term "grooming". The issue they had here is that Bridget specifically was literally groomed into identifying as a girl. She didn't realise their identity by herself, it was forced upon her. There is no ambiguity about this in the story. And it's being presented as a positive, which basically turns Bridget's backstory into David Reimer apologia. Of course, as much as I disagree with this writing choice, the page should still refer to Bridget as a "her". Them's the canon, even if it's unrealistic.

Anyways, I recommend reading through Wikipedia's guidelines on civility. If you haven't the time, please just remember to assume good faith. And know that the admins do not take sides. If they do, please remind them that they shouldn't. If they still do, post about it on the administrators' notice board.

Dieknon (talk) 17:47, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Dieknon

That's not entirely true, Bridget was well aware that she was male. Her parents clearly didn't hide what they did from her, just from the village, and she had the opportunity to turn it down eventually, since by the time of Strive she had already disproven the village's superstitions. That's not really like the David Reimer case at all (let alone that there was no sexual abuse going on, which is an underdiscussed aspect of the Reimer case which is pivotal to its horror). 165.235.53.254 (talk) 18:57, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Firstly, thanks to Dieknon for the cooler head and responding to the offending user. The issue I have with it is as you say: There's nothing wrong with trans individuals in Guilty Gear, or anywhere really, it's just that the context surrounding Bridget and how it was handled up to the ending in question that makes it unsavory, as it conflates his transgender identity as a product of duress and pressure rather than self-discovery, and it does so while propping it up as a good thing.

Also, regarding this post by 165.235.53.254, there is some right information there but it isn't entirely accurate; it should be stated that no, Bridget never confronted the village in his last appearance and as far as we, the viewer, are aware, they still believe he is female and he would still be under pressure there, if not outright in danger, were he to reveal his male identity. In his last appearance (Guilty Gear XX Accent Core), Path 2 of Bridget's Story mode is the only one that takes him back to the village or depicts him interacting with anyone there other than his Uncle, whom he has a brief word with about his Brother going missing. The village's myths and superstitions are never shown as being confronted or dispelled, nor is it ever shown that he wouldn't be concerned about revealing his male identity to the village, and therefore no longer under pressure to conform to the false identity of being female.

Both endings for Bridget can be reviewed over at vgmuseum. WrappedInBread (talk) 12:35, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

That's not quite correct, though. Bridget's Strive bio explicitly says that "Bridget showed talent as a bounty hunter and managed to bring home great wealth. This led to the village superstition fading," as seen here. The superstition only could have faded upon revelation that they weren't born a girl. It's true that this wasn't shown in-game, but it's clearly happened by the time of Strive's events. How much before the events is unclear, but Bridget no longer has the village's expectations constraining them by Strive. 165.235.53.254 (talk) 23:01, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

The Arcade Mode has several endings, with the flawless ending having him say he wants to be like Ky. Bridget wants to settle things with his home and come out to them as a boy, despite the potential consequences of that. This makes much more sense with his lore. Him saying he is a girl is effectively the bad ending to the Arcade Mode, giving in to being thought of as a girl. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.115.207.219 (talk) 13:50, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

The Arcade Mode having separate endings and stating that Bridget wants to "be like Ky" is true, but there's absolutely no evidence that it means she wants to come out to them as a boy. Her family already knew she was male and, as the game makes clear, she already returned to the village and disproved the curse. The idea that she hasn't "come out" as a boy to them yet is unfounded. Furthermore, there's no reason to assume that the various endings are mutually contradictory; they can fit well together, and the final conversation with Ky about coming out and being true to yourself makes just as much sense if Bridget is trans. 165.235.53.254 (talk) 15:11, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Do you not understand how branching storylines work in video games? The whole point is that they are mutually exclusive, and there is zero indication in the canonical storyline, which depends on a flawless playthrough, that this character's male gender identity or his resolve to be recognised as the gender he identified as, rather than the one he was assigned at birth (ironic, innit?) has changed. Contrary to what the person who requested protection has claimed, this has nothing to do with transphobia, or bigotry. It's a simple matter of people editing based on a datamined voiceline coupled with an online game of Chinese whispers, versus people who have actually played through the game, who are correctly reverting the former's edits as they directly and explicitly contradict the source material. It's also pretty telling that the first editor to change all pronouns in this article - before the DLC was even out! - was not a contributor to the Video games WikiProject or articles regarding the subject matter beforehand, but I digress. 2804:18:1068:561C:898:3742:22FB:AA61 (talk) 16:58, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Nah it's clear your trying to push an alt-right agenda on the page. Admin's have sided with the facts, so go sulk in a corner. You lost ;) Bigbossbalrog (talk) 16:59, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

This isn't a visual novel, nor is there anything in the game which says that the flawless playthrough is the "canon" one. It's just as much contradicting the source material to ignore the other endings. 165.235.53.254 (talk) 17:35, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Copying from an above response, the post above by 165.235.53.254 has some inaccurate information:

Bridget never confronted the village in his last appearance and as far as we, the viewer, are aware, they still believe he is female and he would still be under pressure there, if not outright in danger, were he to reveal his male identity. In his last appearance (Guilty Gear XX Accent Core), Path 2 of Bridget's Story mode is the only one that takes him back to the village or depicts him interacting with anyone there other than his Uncle, whom he has a brief word with about his Brother going missing. The village's myths and superstitions are never shown as being confronted or dispelled, nor is it ever shown that he wouldn't be concerned about revealing his male identity to the village, and therefore no longer under pressure to conform to the false identity of being female.

Both endings for Bridget can be reviewed over at vgmuseum.

They are correct that the flawless ending is far more open-ended and does not specify or address Bridget's gender identity at all. It would appear the inference from 24.115.207.219's post is that Bridget's response to Ky's conviction and his admiration of it (i.e. of being yourself no matter what anyone else thinks) is because of his history with struggling to confront others with his male identity, one of the biggest pressures and influences in his life having been the villagers at his home. I do believe that does fit, but once again, the flawless ending is deliberately vague about what Bridget might mean, and it should be noted that at this point, we're largely just filling in the gaps with personal biases. WrappedInBread (talk) 12:53, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Nope nothing about her coming out as a boy. You lost, get over it. Bigbossbalrog (talk) 16:12, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

There's nothing about him coming out as a girl in the true ending. Until there is official confirmation from the developer, the article should not be changed to reflect an alternative ending that is explicitly defined in the game as not being true (canon) and based on loss criteria. You lost, get over it. 2804:18:1068:561C:898:3742:22FB:AA61 (talk) 16:48, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Except the admins sided with us, so you can't do anything. Enjoy. Bigbossbalrog (talk) 16:52, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't think you understand how Wikipedia's editing guidelines work. Even sysops' personal opinions do not trump reliable sources, and are not final. 2804:18:1068:561C:898:3742:22FB:AA61 (talk) 17:01, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

"Protected article"

You lost. Bigbossbalrog (talk) 17:14, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

How though? 2804 is right. There are multiple endings in the arcade mode in the game, and you are just taking one of the few that fits your agenda to change his identity all for the sake of representation, and then hiding behind the criticism by claiming that everyone who disagrees is a "transphobe" or "alt-right bigot".

Stop trying to push one of multiple endings just because that one fits your agenda. 2604:3D09:188B:FE00:3163:5F74:3889:893A (talk) 21:04, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Several Japanese people have said that he is not coming out as a girl. He calls himself a girl in a playful way at the end, hinting that he no longer cares what people call him. This is just another case of bad localization, and the vandalism you all have done to this page is disgusting. Its especially sad to see you even attack your own people in your own group in YouTube comment sections and such because they don't agree with the English localization.

This has nothing to do with alt-right, the fact that that's your immediate conclusion speaks volumes about what you value about this discussion. You don't care about the source material or what the lines mean within Japanese culture, you're just taking it and running with it. 24.115.207.219 (talk) 23:26, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

No, she's a girl in the Japanese version too. Stay mad! You won't be able to change anything cause the admins have sided with us. 142.114.120.200 (talk) 01:14, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Having to resort to screaming "YOU DON'T RESPECT JAPANESE culture" shows how defeated you are. We won! Bigbossbalrog (talk) 01:16, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

So now you are just deflecting and ignoring all the other endings and arguments, including the true one, and hiding behind the Wiki admins because they are apparently on your side? 2604:3D09:188B:FE00:3519:31B1:9B5D:81C2 (talk) 01:54, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

A boy going against his assigned gender at birth now being forced back into a girl gender is supposed to be a win for you? That is basically just grooming, and you're over here cheering for it.

Also the Japanese culture DOES matter because this is a Japanese character from a Japanese game. All Japanese media still lists Bridget as a male.

Its pathetic how you're clinging onto the locked wiki as if it'll never change back. The only thing you've won is an award for biggest clown this week. There's already videos being made of how the bad ending is actually transphobic because of how he doesn't say he's a girl at all in the flawless route. 24.115.207.219 (talk) 03:42, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

He is a boy, saying I'm a girl in the bad ending is not a win, it is admitting that the bad end is him coming out as trans. 47.188.117.17 (talk) 01:27, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

She says she's a girl in all the endings. This article is not changing. 142.114.120.200 (talk) 01:48, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

"all" of them? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W5ezv_xxOk&t=413s

Weird because he doesn't say anything about being a girl or wanting to be one in this ending. 2604:3D09:188B:FE00:3519:31B1:9B5D:81C2 (talk) 01:52, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

HE says it in a single bad end. 47.188.117.17 (talk) 02:14, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Honestly i'm done here. There is no use listening to these people. They don't even know how Wikipedia works. Just because you wrote your opinion down and asked the admins to lock it to prevent "vandalism" doesn't mean they are on your side and that the changes are final. Find a good source Wiki admins would accept and trust me, these 2 will go silent. But for now they are just gonna hide behind the mods and call you all sorts of buzzwords for now. 2604:3D09:188B:FE00:3519:31B1:9B5D:81C2 (talk) 02:20, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Also one thing i forgot to mention but the admins sadly aren't "siding with you", they are just agreeing to your request to lock the page because of an edit war that had occurred. Doesn't mean your changes from he/him to she/her are correct. Dont get cocky. 2604:3D09:188B:FE00:3519:31B1:9B5D:81C2 (talk) 04:29, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

You're acting like a brat and your consistent usage of "you lost" makes you come off as childish and hopelessly insecure of yourself, since you're obviously not here to discus or argue in good faith I don't know how anyone allows you to have editing rights in the first place 2001:569:769F:2600:E576:FE32:63DF:B6EE (talk) 03:53, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

It is very sad to see the ambiguity of the Japanese language lost in the localization process. He is generally considered to be a "pretty boy dressed as a girl". But nothing more and nothing less. In general, Japanese people do not think of pursuing something like gender identity of a fictional character in a definite way. Sometimes they value the ambiguity that does not provide a clear answer there. He is very closely related to the development of the category Otokonoko, and to simply use the fashionable label of transgender is myopic. There are several interesting references to him in the Japanese Otokonoko article. Sugarman (talk) 18:17, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

I suggest reverting the gender/pronouns to what was before all of this and wait till official confirmation from the author's or continuation of the storyline. Since there seems to be multiple endings, all of which have different results, the only coherent choice would be to wait.

Also @Bigbossbalrog: 1.- having a debate on the talk page is not vandalism, that's why it's a "talk" page. trolling is. 2.- your sole argument is "admins side with me" even though nobody knows you and you only started contributing this year. 3.- Your childish behaviour is more than enough to categorize you as a troll. ("You lost", shows how much of a bigot you are.") To anyone reading this, ignore this user, he's most likely trolling. And no, debating it's gender is not being transphobic. Square365 Favor (talk) 22:01, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

I disagree that the only coherent choice is to wait. While the other endings do not explicitly state that Bridget is a girl, they do not contradict that ending in any substantial way. Moreover, while it is not the only source, the use of female pronouns on GG World (true, only in English, but it certainly is not the place of Wikipedia to assume without evidence that the localization is an incorrect choice) does serve as an official source from which to derive pronoun usage for an English-language wiki. "She/her", for that reason, is the most coherent choice to use until further evidence comes out going against that, as there is far more evidence supporting it as the status quo than there is against it. 2600:1700:6DA0:C820:4435:BF33:C1FD:6117 (talk) 04:52, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

With respect, I disagree. As far as evidence goes, we essentially only really have the disputed content itself, the bickerings of social media, and a Kotaku article, based on the same disputed content as the arguments above and whose reputation leaves much to be desired.

Frankly, the only reliable source in my eyes so far would be the pronouns on the profile of GG World, but because it is unique to the English localization as you say, that makes it questionable at best with regards to its value as canon in the series, now and going forward. It also means that Wikipedia's article would be operating on this controversy with a single quasi-reliable source that is at odds with every other localization, including its native one. In the face of this, the responsible thing in my eyes is to keep it as the last verifiable edit with sources until we have reliable ones to justify the change.

And really, I don't think we'll have to wait for long. It's a hotly disputed and controversial thing so far and I think it'd be nuts to assume Arc System Works doesn't know that, and surely someone in the gaming press is going to be interviewing about it before long. WrappedInBread (talk) 12:06, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

In the "Heart Lose" Stage 7 ending, Goldlewis asks to Bridget "Lemme guess. You're hiding your true self for the sake of others, aren't you?". To which she responds "How did you know?", and later "I always thought that, as long as I kept quiet, thinkgs would work out... But it hurts too much. I haven't even told my parents." . Since her parents are the ones who raised her as a girl in secret, this implies she's been thinking about what's bothering her for a long time already. But also, it's not just the endings, her theme song "The Town Inside Me" is clearly about transition too, in it she expresses how her achievements didn't help her with the "gray haze" she says she's been "carrying for a long time". The "gray haze" is also described as "Tastes like vegetables I don't like" and "I hate the alarm clock I chose", or even "It's my stress, that's for sure". The chorus ends with "Me without me // I'm the one to blame". The song ends with Bridget deciding to "paint the gray haze into sky blue" and "I know who you are! / I'm not leaving you again!", realising that "No matter what changes / Will *no longer* change me", echoing her lines in the Flawless Ending with Ky, meaning that Bridget will be Bridget no matter how people react to her coming out - she won't succumb to external pressures of any kind anymore. BrocolieBrocoli (talk) 21:52, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Frankly, it's baffling that anyone would stubbornly claim she isn't transgender, all of this is not subtext, it's just text. Or rather, it would be if we didn't already know that mainstream gaming fanbases have a terrible track record with issues relating to women and queer people. Because her coming out is so clear, every major gaming publication that covered Bridget's release in Guilty Gear Strive's Season 2 has taken her coming out as trans as a matter of fact (just a few examples from a quick "Bridget Guilty Gear" search on DuckDuckGo). Even if we didn't have an official source using she/her pronouns for her (which we do, in-game in GG World ), and thus didn't know what are her pronouns in English, her coming out as a transgender girl would still be undeniable to any reasonable and informed person. Resistance to this rather seems to be related to people not liking this character development, misunderstanding how it fits her previous development, and/or misunderstanding how a coming out works in practice (i.e. citing the aforementioned lines about "won't change me" as evidence that she isn't trans, because they associate the perceived change from outside to an internal change that, not only isn't there, but the entire point of coming out is to not need to present yourself as someone you are not). BrocolieBrocoli (talk) 21:52, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

To add to this, while it's not an official statement by the dev team, the English VA for Bridget has stated on Twitter that the character is trans and that she (the actress) love[s] the representation her character brings.

As it stands right now, on the basis of the sourcing, I think the article is OK with regards to pronoun usage and describing the character as trans. Sideswipe9th (talk) 22:39, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 August 2022

Change "female" to "male"

The gender of the character should be reverted back to male to more accurately reflect the majority lore of the character, especially since the "...I'm a girl." Voice line is debatably non-canon. Also this would serve the functional purpose of revealing the character's anatomy to less nowledgeable fans. 2600:1700:1F60:D880:98A:B64D:E6F1:6692 (talk) 05:28, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:59, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

It's canon get over it. 142.114.120.200 (talk) 00:28, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Problem is , the dev team said nothing against or for it after days. Japanese websites continue to use him and saying he's a boy (including the Official Website in japanese and the actual bio in Strive itself) . The only articles you're sourcing are based on that single piece of dialogue. This isn't a good research work and you're not willing to listen it would seem. I can link you sources if you want but do not be ridiculous, until proven by the dev team , it IS up to debate. 2A02:8428:6157:4901:A8F8:9AFF:1036:E845 (talk) 10:53, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

The Japanese bio does not use male phrasing to refer to Bridget except in the same places that the English bio does, namely referring to her backstory. 2600:1700:6DA0:C820:6DC4:7FF9:91E7:8862 (talk) 14:07, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Thus why is the discord picture at the end of this page a source (10.) ? As the Japanese equivalent does NOT indicate 彼女の両親 and just 両親

Then why the gendering on your screen if the original language did not use one? It is more the english bio adding something on it's own

source : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZ1zh9CWQAERDku?format=jpg&name=large

Also yesterday an article by inside-games.jp , also relayed by Yahoo , still describes Bridget as a boy, using 彼 and 男の娘

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/c1e7d498071382ee4d02101e8a1203c895ddf7a9 (same article but might as well give two sources to prove I did not make it up)

https://www.inside-games.jp/article/2022/08/14/139795.html

If you accept external sources, these are as equally acceptable as the one on the wiki page 2A02:8428:6157:4901:A8F8:9AFF:1036:E845 (talk) 17:19, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm not discussing the Japanese articles (use of secondary sources here is silly anyway, as they'll only reflect the existing controversy). However, the highlighted section in the bio corresponds to the section in the English bio which states "However, Bridget's upbringing was what one would expect for a daughter of a high-society family instead of a son." Though 男の子である on its own would read as a present tense, in context it's simply saying she was raised as a girl despite being a boy (which no one is arguing). Japanese trans people often describe themselves as having "been the opposite gender" in the past, more often than in the West. The Japanese bio doesn't prove Bridget is trans, but it doesn't disprove it either, and as I said, doesn't use male signifiers except where the English does as well. 165.235.53.254 (talk) 18:37, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Also, as stated earlier, we should not be operating under the assumption that the localization is incorrect. Localizations are usually conducted with consulation of the original creators, so unless there's substantial evidence that a localization is wrong, it should not be thrown out as a source. There have, of course, been well-known examples of poor localizations, but if we refused to use the pronouns used in official English sources unless they were in the original Japanese for every character to which it could apply, we'd have a lot more characters than Bridget for which we'd have to withhold pronoun usage. 165.235.53.254 (talk) 20:05, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

I took this picture from twitter so the highlighted area is not mine , but there is still no mention of being an actual girl anywhere in the japanese version (which is, the original) , whereas the english took the liberty to specify on the things he likes. Sorry but japanese also know how to use pronouns , problem is , when the gender is obvious , it is dropped in sentences (also a thing in Italian if you want a closer example) . Thus there is an inconsistency since the bio implies he , using male terms make it logical to drop 彼 . Had the dev team decided it was a trans girl , they would have added something , as the english bio did , but they didn't and I strongly doubt it would be an overlook from the devs corrected by the localization team.

"The Japanese bio doesn't prove Bridget is trans, but it doesn't disprove it either, and as I said, doesn't use male signifiers except where the English does as well." Since the original language doesn't give a definitive answer and the developpers said nothing about this issue, to correct whoever is wrong , it should be left as is. Ambiguous at best. Like how it was before. I doubt they wouldn't add something that big in a bio if it was true. I doubt japanese journalists aren't aware of that ending , and yet they still say he .

A encyclopedia isn't about what we FEEL is right , it must be strictly corrects with facts , saying Bridget is trans , without any direct approval from the dev team is assuming because of irl people stories ressembling this case. That is projecting. Should Edgeworth from Ace Attorney be confirmed to have feelings for Phoenix because of his past with him , how he acts during the games , and most importantly, because of the famous quote "Thanks to you, I am saddled with unnecessary... feelings"? No. Even though he intended to spend his whole life as a defense lawyer , because he admired Phoenix who helped him by defending him as a kid and went far to help him out of sympathy as an adult.

"use of secondary sources here is silly anyway, as they'll only reflect the existing controversy" English not being my first language I'll assume it means indirect sources , not from the authors or equivalent. Thus, except that single piece of dialogue that is debated and not backed up by actual sources, and is seemingly ignored by video game journals in the country who made the game (who aren't probably oblivious to it), you'd say the article is factually on point because it ressembles what happened to actual people? More akin to tabloids than an encyclopedia, who should deal with facts, backed up with sources and not feelings and "people often describes themselves".

I do not think you mean harm but realize that you wouldn't like an actual scientific paper to discuss a sickness and wikipedia to say it is something not to worry about because "you know, people do cough a lot and most of the time it's nothing so it's okay" . As you wouldn't like if they approximately described a figure of speech based on how people today use it when it is wrongly used" .

Please, do not end up like the fandom wiki. This website is much more respected, And so should be their articles and the work that should be put into it. 2A02:8428:6157:4901:A8F8:9AFF:1036:E845 (talk) 22:46, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

It is not established as canon (yet), because there's no confirmation of it: either by any references to it within the game itself, a sequel which might take years to come, or from the developers directly. And due to all the ambiguity surrounding the character since Bridget's introduction, it is very understanding in wanting to be careful on hastily concluding a debate without further analysis. Just like the early "i... am a boy" line was not accepted as the final judgement, Wikis should be aware of the nuances within what is presented in a story and should not be taking lines at face value.

Below, i will present a short analysis of a couple of elements in Guilty Gear Strive alone, plus some known established lore within the GG universe. No other source is used because there are no reliable/unbiased references other than the product itself. I'd like to first remind the reader that gender is a spectrum and otokonokos are part of it regardless of culture, and should especially not be ignored here since this product originates from Japan.

0. Design: The change from the male to the androgyny symbol is in both JP and EN versions, so Bridget's change is global, all tell the same story.

1. Normal ending:

Bridget says "Ojouchan... is fine! Because i'm a girl!": Bridget is definitely accepting being seen as a girl, unlike before when Bridget would correct people, and embracing that side. Notice that Bridget says "is fine". Bridget does not reject being an Obocchan ("cowboy" in english). Since Bridget does not deny being a boy, we cannot affirm that Bridget's coming out as a transwoman (one who solely wants to be seen as female) with just that line. Reminder that "I'm a girl" is a typical otokonoko joke, while obviously not being played as a joke here, it's a way to end the scene in conclusive way right after the sentence that carries weight in it ("ojouchan... is fine") and in a good tone.

2. Extreme ending:

Bridget and Ky talk about not changing no matter what others think; to live as their true self; and to not lie to their families or themselves (about being Human+Gear, and i assume Boy+Girl for Bridget). These will come back soon. In GGST, we can see that Bridget is not living as the man which Bridget's family would expect after the superstition was dispelled, Bridget has been living the Bridget we've always knew since Bridget's introduction. According to Ky in this route, Bridget is "conflicted because you still cherish the present", that agrees with Bridget's "Of course i'm running! I'm happy the way i am" in the other ending. But why is Bridget so conflicted in both routes?

3. Theme song:

- "The Town inside me": an allusion to the many facets that Bridget has: a person is built of many small versions of themselves forming a town.

- "And everyone’s voice. Only I’m not there": But each of those small Bridgets inside Bridget does not individually make Bridget up.

- "I can’t go home because I’m afraid something will change. Me without me, I’m the one to blame.": The important chunk. The change that Bridget's afraid of is clearly stated as "Me without me" or "Be without me", but the same interpretation follows (likely "Me", as it'd also be a play with "uchi", inside and maybe home): "Me(final) without me(boy/girl)". Should Bridget live as man, Bridget loses the girl side; Should Bridget live as woman, Bridget loses the boy part. Missing any member of the "town inside me" would make Bridget not be Bridget anymore. And Bridget would be to blame for that change, since Bridget dispelled the superstition. (But which one do townsfolk/family expect Bridget to be? Thinking of whats others think of us is always scary)

- "No matter what changes, will no longer change me. No matter what- change- no no no won’t change me": Near the end, the song reflects Bridget's conversation with KY: Bridget acknowledges that every small Bridget in the "town inside" is a part of what makes Bridget Bridget.

- "I can feel the light, even after the sun goes down": In the final line, the entire town inside Bridget is now out, Bridget's true self can feel the light.

If one is used to the concept of otokonokos and read the small nuances in what is presented, both routes in Bridget's story in GGST seem to lead to a similar conclusion: the development of an otokonoko person to fully embrace their girl side (Bridget's true self), which the androgyny symbol denotes, through some social expectations stuff (which i suppose no one cares) to return home. Even if for some reason we ignore the Japanese culture, we cannot affirm that Bridget solely identifies as a girl, at best (or worst, depending on your views) Bridget could be considered a bigender in the west.

Cis people be like "here is how someone literally calling themself a girl means they are a boy". — Preceding unsigned comment added by FemaleCorrin (talk • contribs) 03:55, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Obviously, more can be built upon this if further analyzed, but this is as far as i can go with my small brain and the help of many arguments from/with kind strangers in places of the internet where healthy discussion is allowed. I do not take full credits on this text, as it is comprised of ideas from multiple people (even from here, i'm bad at documenting) and contrasted against the video game.

I wish us all a good time playing the game; But especially to our poor Bridget, who got caught up on a dumb political war for no reason.

Sources: GUILTY GEAR -STRIVE- (Steam, which lets us easily change languages) or...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W5ezv_xxOk (Bridget Arcade All Dialogue Guilty Gear Strive)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7voFmNtqj8A (アーケードモード　ブリジット　掛け合い集)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69VV0pH57XE (The Town Inside Me [With Lyrics]) ImashCtolose (talk) 23:00, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Almost a week without any replies and yet no changes on the page. Playing deaf is not what should be done , as the person made sound arguments. It is logical to either change it as bigender, or leave it as ambiguous as it was before unless official sources clearly specifies on the matter. If no replies are made to contradict what's been said with sound arguments / solid proof, it should be changed. Not left without answer and hope that it will be left alone. 2A02:8428:6157:4901:30D3:963E:3E5:3DA2 (talk) 20:30, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Okay mr. has 1 edit ever and it's this page. Nice sock puppet. FemaleCorrin (talk) 04:42, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

You should refrain from posting if you're only here to be disrepectful. Grow up 2A02:8428:6157:4901:F5F1:26EE:E42C:A6AA (talk) 17:46, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

OKay mr. has 1 edit ever and it's th is page. Nice sock puppet.

Literally the only people arguing for male pronouns are sock puppets with no other edits lmao. FemaleCorrin (talk) 05:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Well it would seem kids these days do not know the meaning of Grow up, so I'll do parenting. As I was saying, no answer to the paragraphs, that make sense and are trying to find a concession from ImashCtolose is a bit playing dead (if intentional, of course). 2A02:8428:6157:4901:EC3B:A4AE:56DF:D6C (talk) 07:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the comments about the androgynous symbol and her not denying being a boy, and especially the "We cannot affirm that Bridget's coming out as a transwoman (one who solely wants to be seen as female) with just that line" part: This conception of trans women is dead wrong, and case in point, the correct term is trans woman and not "transwoman". Trans is short for transgender / transexual, which are adjectives that simply mean "whose gender/sex is not aligned" and sometimes "who moves or moved through the gender/sex spectrum". Someone does not need to want to be solely seen as female to be a trans woman, nor does the current article imply that. In fact, from that line the only thing we can infer is that she is a woman (as she says she is a girl), and that she is transgender (as "woman" doesn't align with her birth sex, nor with how she's been saying she's a boy this whole time). We can't, from that line, infer that she's also bigender. The only evidence that could point to that is arguably the androgynous symbol on her attire, but even then that evidence is very weak considering her coming out is at the end of her story here, not at the beginning, and that she could simply identify as an androgynous trans woman as well.

Repeating to emphasize the point: queer identities are largely inclusive, not exclusive. Even if she happened to be bigender, she would still also be a trans woman.

I didn't find this reading of yours of her theme song to be persuasive either. To me the lyrics make a lot more sense if she's having a gender identity crisis due to her taking up voluntarily an identity that she is not.

Finally, there's a dialogue line with Dickinson where she talks about not having told her parents yet about what's been bothering her. At this point in the story, her parents know she was born a boy and also that she has publicly come out about this, as this is implied by her in-game bio. BrocolieBrocoli (talk) 23:39, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

I do want to point out that Bridget’s Japanese Wikipedia page does state she is portrayed as a transgender woman in Strive, although it only cites English sources. Therefore, I don’t think it’s fair to claim that the cultural differences are so insurmountable that nobody in Japan considers her transgender.

https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ブリジット_(GUILTY_GEAR)#その他

Sorry for the lack of formatting, I’m on mobile. Maivea (talk) 21:16, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Given almost all the sources on that matter are in English, a bit hard to say , since other sources still say he's a boy.　This one says there is no informations to confirm one or the other after having mailed Arc Sys

https://www.gamespark.jp/article/2022/08/27/121707.html

Also got Famitsu saying nothing

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202208/23273060.html

NicoNico saying boy

https://news.nicovideo.jp/watch/nw11316370

Also link to an english analysis on the matter that I found interesting , as it compares english and japanese and cultural aspects , the perception of the dialogues etc. :

https://medium.com/@BubbleRvolution/what-is-bridgets-gender-identity-726c889ef98c

The japanese community still uses くん、きゅん, and 男 as I see on jp twitter and pixiv for example. I doubt it is a cultural gap, perhaps they perceive it in a different way. The japanese bio still lacks genders when english bio uses some. Given some dude tried to impersonate Arc Sys to answer on it , and they said nothing , that they wouldn't answer (at least for now when I write this).

Making it unclear/ambiguous but saying the possibilites for both sides (and letting everybody have their own personal answers on it when shown what goes for or against each versions) on the Trivia part on the Wikipedia would let people cool down until they actually do say something on the matter themselves.

May angry some people, but would stop most people from vandalism (or so I hope) 2A02:8428:6157:4901:D956:8E0D:6AE5:934F (talk) 13:41, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

no

that arc system email was confirmed fake by arc system

cope harder dip shit sockpuppet that only ever posts on this one page. FemaleCorrin (talk) 04:35, 30 August 2022 (UTC)