Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Index

Custom table updates

This bot has been responsible for two tables: User:WP 1.0 bot/Tables/Custom/Roads-1 and User:WP 1.0 bot/Tables/Custom/Canada-Roads-1. These have not been updated since 2019, and I'd like to request that they be restored to the bot's regular duties.

That first table for WP:USRD needs a couple of additions for a few task forces that have been added. (Along with this, the table name may need a new title since it's not for Roads writ large, but just the US Roads project.)

• We need a row added with a gray background for Category:U.S. county road articles by quality with "CR" as the abbreviation in the first column of the table. It should be listed third after the USH row.
• We need a row added with a gray background for Category:U.S. road junction articles by quality with "JCT" as the abbreviation in the first column of the table. It should be listed fifth after the Auto trail row. (That row's abbreviation can be changed to "TRL" to match the project's navbox.)
• We need a row added with a gray background for Category:U.S. Route 66 articles by quality with "US 66" as the abbreviation in the first column of the table. It should be listed sixth after the JCT row.
• The USRD row at the bottom should get a different shade since it's the project total row. Maybe a shade of green like #ddffdd.

The second table for WP:CARD only needs a background added for its project total row like the USRD table; that project uses red as its color, so a shade of pink like #ffdddd might work. That abbreviation of "CRWP" should be switched to "CARD" as well.

Along with this, there should be a third table created for WP:HWY. The rows needed would be based on the following assessment trees:

• Africa road transport articles, "Africa", in gray
• Asia road transport articles, "Asia", in gray
• Australia road transport articles, "Australia"
• Canada road transport articles, "Canada"
• Europe road transport articles, "Europe", in gray
• Hong Kong road transport articles, "Hong Kong"
• India road transport articles, "India"
• Latin America road transport articles, "Latin America" in gray
• Oceania road transport articles, "Oceania", in gray
• UK road transport articles, "United Kingdom", in gray
• U.S. road transport articles, "United States"
• Highways articles, "Highways", in a shade of light blue as the HWY project summary
• Road transport articles, "All Roads", in another color as a global summary

Thanks, Imzadi 1979 → 15:35, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

@Audiodude: Any feedback on this please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kelson (talk • contribs) 08:55, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

@Audiodude: repinging because the previous comment was not signed by Kelson, thus it would not ping. Imzadi 1979 → 21:58, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

We don't create tables like this for you. The bot creates the tables automatically based on the presence of articles in the proper "... by quality" or "... by importance" categories. As far as having a table with multiple sub-projects listed in it, I think I'm vaguely familiar with this, but I would have to look more into how it's done. Do you have an example from another project where the sub-projects are listed in the same table? This might be something that you do yourself by transcluding templates. Thanks, audiodude (talk) 22:46, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

@Audiodude: these are the only tables with such a breakdown. We created a similar table out of templates for USRD, but it has no historical record. There are no past revisions of the table to see the assessment data on past dates because the templates just live update based on the current category contents at the time the page is purged or otherwise refreshed. At least with the custom tables, until the bot stopped updating them, we can go back in time and look through the revisions, just as we can with the existing standard project/TF tables. Imzadi 1979 → 23:44, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Oh right, it looks like these were some of the "custom tables" that got deprecated when we moved to the third generation Python bot. See this github issue. I found the code for "Roads 1" and for Canadian roads. You can also see the entries in the Custom.tables.dat file that I preserved.

If you have someone who can write Python code, I'd be happy to guide them in submitting a PR that would "re-activate" these tables (aka re-write them from scratch). Assuming you have such a person, I would be willing to do the groundwork of creating the "custom tables" framework (storing schema/metadata in the database) that they would use to write the custom table code.

Otherwise, I guess it requires a bit of understanding about the use case for these custom tables, which we've avoided re-implementing for this long. Are they providing functionality that can't be found elsewhere, or are they simply a convenience? What has been done in the past three years while they were unavailable?

Thanks, audiodude (talk) 03:32, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

@Audiodude: that was colloquially our "leaderboard", and for the last three years, the friendly competition to improve states' relative stats in the project has been absent, and project progress has stagnated compared to what we used to have. Without the combined table, you'd literally have to consult over 60 assessment tables to do the comparisons we used to be able to do in a single location (for the US), or consult 15 tables for Canada.

The template-driven live table has a flaw: with that many data rows, we can't display all of the assessment classes because we run out of "expensive parser function calls" to get that many category counts. As a result, the page can only display one assessment class and the WikiWork calculations. And that page still has no historical record in the page history of past assessments. Imzadi 1979 → 07:04, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Okay I might be working on implementing this. Stay tuned. Likely the first version will be a copy of the old table before I can work in the new requests. audiodude (talk) 21:43, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Imzadi1979, I've reimplemented custom tables for WP1, and added an implementation for the US Roads project. I will deploy this tomorrow and it should show up here when uploaded. I imagine there might be some bugs with the upload mechanism, since it is very hard to do an end to end test of that code in development/unit tests. Once that's figured out, keep an eye on the page I just linked, and let me know if it meets your expectations (keeping in mind that for this version I just copied over the current table configuration). Thanks, audiodude (talk) 03:37, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

@Audiodude: the table looks great. There is a math error though in the Ω column. That's the Relative WikiWork, which is calculated by dividing the Cumulative WikiWork, ω, by the total articles in a topic, or Ω = ω/T . Instead, we're getting the inverse (or Ω = T/ω), which isn't meaningful. Per the live table, the Ω for the IH row should be 3.691. Fix that, and it looks like the table is back. 😀 Imzadi 1979 → 00:13, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Okay this should be fixed in the next bot run. Keep an eye on that page. Once I implement the requested changes for that page, I'll move the updates to a new name. Any requests? Should it be '../Tables/Custom/US-Roads'? Then I can get started on implementing the Canadian roads and the Highway pages you requested. audiodude (talk) 15:37, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

@Audiodude: that page name works for me. I'd suggest moving the old Roads page to that new title so that it's a seamless transition, if that makes sense. (That way the old revision history and the new history are "connected".)

Thank you for getting us this far. When I loaded the page yesterday, the table looked just like the old one, and was great to see. I'm excited to have this back up and running. Imzadi 1979 → 16:04, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

@Imzadi1979: Glad it's working and you're happy with the result! I've added the specifications for Canadian Roads, which will go at the same location as before and Highways, which will be here. In the future, if you need updates to these tables, you will likely need to request them on this talk page again, since there is no UI for updating these tables in the app. Thanks, audiodude (talk) 18:26, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Oh I've also added your modifications to the US Roads table. All of this will happen with today's bot run. audiodude (talk) 18:27, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

@Audiodude: User:WP 1.0 bot/Tables/Custom/Canada-Roads-1 looks good, but unless Colorado, Delaware and Guam were annexed by Canada and I missed the announcement, we have a few extra rows. 😉

Also, the TCH assessments are under "Trans-Canada Highway articles" categories, not "Trans-Canada Highway road transport" categories. (I don't know why, they just are.) So the TCH row came up blank with a red link.

User:WP 1.0 bot/Tables/Custom/Highways looks good. Thank you so much. 😀 Imzadi 1979 → 00:13, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Quick thought, but the HWY table could use lighter shades of blue and green for the Highways and All Roads rows just for legibility, but otherwise, that table looks good. Imzadi 1979 → 00:21, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Funny mistakes on Canada, will be fixed in the next bot run. Did I forget to mention that "custom" tables also means "handcrafted"? I've also updated the colors on HWY, but honestly it's going to be guess and check unless you just pick a color and tell me what you want. You can use "edit this page" and put the color you want in the table manually to "preview" it and see what you like. Glad you're happy with your new tables though! audiodude (talk) 01:25, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

@Audiodude: let's try #99ccff for the shade of blue on the Highways row, and #ddffdd for the shade of green on the All Roads row. Imzadi 1979 → 02:12, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. Updated just now, should take effect in tonight's run. Thanks audiodude (talk) 16:43, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

@Audiodude: thank you for everything so far. The Canadian table still has Colorado/Delaware/Guam showing up, and the TCH line is blank because it's looking for a non-existent table and category tree. It thinks that the TCH articles aree at User:WP 1.0 bot/Tables/Project/Trans-Canada Highway road transport, but they're underUser:WP 1.0 bot/Tables/Project/Trans-Canada Highway. Everything else on all three tables looks good! Imzadi 1979 → 00:27, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Looking at the code on the table, it looks like Quebec is just mislabeled as Guam and colored silver. Imzadi 1979 → 00:38, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry didn't see this message until now. The Canadian Roads table hasn't been updated, because there was a syntax error in the code specifying it. Hopefully it will be fixed with tonight's bot run. Cheers, audiodude (talk) 19:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Why do we destroy the assessment infrastructure for inactive projects?

Please see User_talk:Liz#Why_was_this_page_deleted? for details; long story short - when a project is declared inactive, it's assessments are not just hidden, but gutted - as categories are deleted! This might possibly result in reclassification of formerly asssessed articles into unasssed (I am not sure if this is the case), but we are certainly loosing useful statistics such as information about breakdown of articles assessed by now-inactive Wikiprojects. Examples of damage from the recently declared as inactive WikiProject Popular Culture:

• Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Popular Culture articles by quality statistics which was until recently a usual assessment stat page is now an empty shell that got deleted (and restored at my request).
• it's no longer possible to get a list of articles that made up that list as categories like Category:Start-Class Popular Culture articles were deleted too
• Marquis de Sade in popular culture is an example of article that was assessed only by this defunct project. I am unsure if it is counted as assessed or not by our top-level listing. I have a feeling it is not, since it all assessment categories were deleted (compare with categories at Talk:Popular culture).

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:04, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

As to "why", I have no idea. But I think the better way forward than just to change the template to include the categories would be to formally separate quality assessment from WikiProjects. (I know that there will need to be a special case for MILHIST since they are the only people who have A-Class, but the way forward there is to recognise that A-Class is not a part of the usual assessment criteria, but a special MILHIST badge of honour). Re-activating at least the assessment categories for inactive WikiProjects would still help and probably not do much harm, though. —Kusma (talk) 06:46, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

I agree with Kusma, ratings are redundantly repeated on every talkpage with multiple banners. We can split off MILHIST A-class or just let MILHIST rate articles as A-class for all Wikiprojects. That said, the rating for Marquis de Sade in popular culture is not lost; it is rated as "Start". This rating is still visible in the wikicode and so is likely still being read by the relevant bots. The category infrastructure and so on I'm not sure is very important, as it's all managed by bots anyway. (And we do need a better process to wind down or merge Wikiprojects.) CMD (talk) 07:59, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Just to be clear, the categories are not created by bots, at least not by the WP 1.0 bot. In fact, it is the other way around: the WP 1.0 bot consumes the category listings (aka "Z-Class Foo Project articles") in order to generate the data for the assessment tables. For assessment, the article is defined as having Class Z if its talk page appears in that category, and that is the singular definition. I think there might be some confusion because the normal way articles are added to the categories is by adding templates to the talk page, but that is just template inclusion which results in category inclusion. audiodude (talk) 02:59, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

I think the rationale is that no one would be available to rate inactive projects' class and importance assessment and maintain that? But, I too personally do not appreciate it. We loose some useful statistics when we do this. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 08:21, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

There has been a lot of assessment activity on pages related to the popular culture WikiProject, just check the history of Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Popular Culture articles by quality log. Many "active" projects also do not have any maintenance for parts of their assessment categories; I don't think anybody has put any thought into WikiProject Germany's distinctions between "Low"/"Mid" and "Mid"/"High" importance for at least a decade. —Kusma (talk) 08:49, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

If someone's assessing the pages, then the WikiProject should be marked as active (or at least semi-active). WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:28, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

For the record, I am occasionally using assessment templates for various projects that are deemed as inactive, some of them are "the best fit", and sometimes, like in the case of sade in popculture case, the only fit I can think of. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:26, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)#Improper_handling_of_assessment_for_inactive_WikiProjects _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:46, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Help with new WikiProject

Need help with this on Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian transport. -- ThylacineHunter (talk) 14:23, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Bot can't handle draftifying

When an article like Draft talk:Athletics at the 2024 Summer Olympics gets moved to draft space and it automatically gets classified as a Draft, the bot doesn't realise and continues to classify it as eg a Start even after the Start assessment is removed - see eg openzim-France Start NA. Any chance of this being fixed - presumably you could force a fix by deleting the template, waiting for a bot run, and then reverting the deletion, but it's a bit brute force. FlagSteward (talk) 04:58, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

I forgot, there's a couple more examples in NA Spain C & Start which are a bit more annoying as the only members of their type, Draft talk:Buddhism in Spain and Draft:Ghosts in Spanish-speaking cultures. FlagSteward (talk) 20:37, 1 December 2022 (UTC)