Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 15

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September 15

This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on September 15, 2023.

Helena Mankowska

• Helena Mankowska → Lady Dimitrescu  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Unhelpful: the target tells the reader very, very, little about Helena Mankowska. (NPP action) Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 20:27, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

• retarget to Helena Makowska - Darker Dreams (talk) 03:35, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Dave Cohen (studio musician and producer)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was withdrawn by nom. (non-admin closure) Skarmory (talk • contribs) 14:28, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

• Draft:Dave Cohen (studio musician and producer) → Dave Cohen (musician)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Cross-space redirect. I find that to be a particularly unlikely disambiguator for someone to search, but I can't imagine anyone using it and entering "Draft" at the front.

I'd also like to ask the admin a question: am I correct in thinking that this would not fall under WP:CSD R2? Not sure what isn't clicking in my brain but I keep doubting myself. Sock (tock talk) 18:30, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

• Update (9/17): After seeing the responses below, I understand the value in keeping this redirect and withdrawal my suggestion to delete it. Thank you all for the helpful replies! Sock (tock talk) 02:36, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
• Comment: Not an admin, but it doesn't qualify for WP:R2. That would apply if it were Example targetting Draft:Example, but for Draft:Example targetting Example. TartarTorte 18:46, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

• Keep: harmless (linked from one place). Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 20:29, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
• Keep, this is a published AfC draft from its former name in draftspace; its existence is beneficial for the purpose of successful AfC article tracking. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 01:53, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
  • You learn something new every day, thank you! I've not actually come across this before and wasn't entirely sure where to look, but I'll commit it to memory and I'm happy to withdrawal the suggestion. Sock (tock talk) 02:36, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
• @Sock: Draft redirects are typically kept if they were a title of the draft while it was in draftspace, unless there's a specific reason not to keep them. They may be linked to from other pages, or bookmarked, etc., and (apparently, I didn't know this before Utopes' comment) they are used in AFC tracking. (This norm may be a good fit for WP:RFDCO, now that I think about it.) Skarmory (talk • contribs) 02:15, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).

Bamboo socks

• Bamboo socks → Rayon#Controversies  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

This isn't really mentioned in any great detail anywhere on wikipedia. There is a passing mention on bamboo socks at Bamboo textile but nothing on it beyond that. There is no mention at the current target. TartarTorte 16:53, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

• Weak retarget to Bamboo textile per nom. Duckmather (talk) 20:52, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
• Retarget to Bamboo textile per nom. --Lenticel ^(talk) 01:07, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
• Retarget to Bamboo textile as the only place where this is mentioned. InterstellarGamer12321 (talk | contribs) 17:55, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Four Golden Princess

• Four Golden Princess → M-Girls  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

A redirect to M-Girls seems inappropriate given that these are two completely different music groups. Adding this as a redirect to a completely different group is misleading. Suggesting to delete and leave as empty page until more updated information can be sourced. RagnaParadise (talk) 14:49, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per reason 10: "the redirect could plausibly be expanded into an article, and the target article contains virtually no information on the subject." Tevildo (talk) 17:43, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Mamu (Nintendo)

• Mamu (Nintendo) → Characters of the Mario franchise#Antagonists  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not mentioned in target. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:16, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

• Delete for its unusual syntax of "(Nintendo)" Retarget and possibly redirect Mamu (character) and Mamu (Nintendo character) to Super Mario Bros. 2 Super Mario Bros. 2 § Plot. マムー (Mamū) is the Japanese name for Wart, the main villain of the game. Wart (Nintendo), Wart (character), and Wart (Nintendo character) already redirect there, and the name "Mamu" is mentioned there in § Doki Doki Panic. –CopperyMarrow15 (talk | edits) Feel free to ping me! 16:43, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
  • Comment: I slightly changed by !vote per what Utpoes and Jay have said below. –CopperyMarrow15 (talk | edits) Feel free to ping me! 21:29, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
  • Comment: I also changed the proposed target to match the "Wart" redirects. –CopperyMarrow15 (talk | edits) Feel free to ping me! 21:35, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
• Comment: Wart (Nintendo) is currently a redirect to Super Mario Bros. 2 where it is loosely mentioned. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 01:32, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
• Delete per nom for not being mentioned at target and not being a likely search term. Page creations, if action is taken about them, should be done separately and not a part of this RfD. My two cents is that I don't think either are likely search terms either, and especially the (Nintendo character) version, as there aren't other characters named "Mamu" at the disambiguation page so there shouldn't be a need to include "Nintendo" in the disambiguator, even though I don't have a problem with the (Nintendo) syntax in theory. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 01:44, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
• Move to Mamu (character), and retarget to Super Mario Bros. 2 per CopperyMarrow15. Old redirect from 2006. Disambiguation rules have evolved, no reason to delete based on syntax. Wart (Nintendo) was also moved to Wart (character) in 2011. Jay 💬 07:07, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 10:33, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

• Delete Even Super Mario Bros. 2 contains far too little substance to warrant a redirect - all it says is the main villain named Mamu - everyone typing this probably already knows that level of detail. The (Nintendo) disambiguator is of no consequence here - Mamu (character) would be IMO inappropriate for the same reason. There's no actual history here worth holding on to. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 00:25, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
• Delete - An obscure character's Japanese name with either disambiguation is just exceedingly rare of a search term. Sergecross73 msg me 16:08, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Country metal

• Country metal → Country rock  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Previous RfDs for this redirect and similar redirects:

• Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 September 20 § Country metal – no consensus

non existent genre and definitely not related to country rock FMSky (talk) 08:16, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Billboard actually gives mention to country metal here: https://www.billboard.com/pro/country-metal-music-hardy-brantley-gilbert-hard-rock/

Of course, you need to subscribe to view this article, but you can bypass that. Load the page, and then with the wireless switch button on your keyboard (usually under one of the F# keys and requires FN to be held), kill the WiFi. This will prevent the "Subscribe to view this article" thing from coming up and give you the article.

Enough of that, the article uses country metal to describe Brantley Gilbert. It also ties it in with country rock, so, if an article describing this genre cannot be produced, then country rock appears to be the best spot for it. I'll see if I can gather some sources to at least make a small section on country rock for this.

There is also an artist called Hardy. He's a country artist, but per the Billboard source, he's embraced metal elements, and per this Los Angeles Times source, he's embraced nu metal elements as well: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2023-02-16/hardy-morgan-wallen-lainey-wilson-mockingbird-crow

I think there is enough notability to establish that country metal is a thing. There is also Rebel Meets Rebel by David Allen Coe featuring the Abbott brothers (Dimebag Darrel and Vinnie Paul) and Rex Brown of Pantera which lists country metal as its genre. There is also Category: Country metal albums on here as well. Moline1 (talk) 15:13, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

The 2nd source doesnt mention country metal anywhere --FMSky (talk) 07:34, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, _signed, Rosguill ^talk 02:30, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

• Southern metal redirects to Southern rock#1980s and 1990s: continuing influence. If it were discussed in more detail there, that might be a suitable target, but as such, it seems iffy. --BDD (talk) 14:25, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: A section was added at the target by Moline1, but reverted by FMSky. I have listed the previous RfD before the redirect was deleted as a G8 two weeks back.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay 💬 06:57, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

• Retarget to Category:Country metal albums using Template:R to category namespace and Template:R with possibilities. I have zero doubt that this should be kept, since this is a genre that has seen involvement from various artists such as David Allan Coe, Hank Williams III and Leo Moracchioli. Until the time that an article is written, the proposed target seems to be the best fit. StonyBrook _babble 18:35, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Petrushene, Mykolaiv Raion

• Petrushene, Mykolaiv Raion → Kinburn Peninsula  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Supposed village in Ukraine, without an article on Ukrainian Wikipedia (which has articles for practically every single village) and without any results in Google Maps. I hardly find results both in English and Ukrainian. This feels like a hoax. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 18:19, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

• Restore and AfD: there was an article at this title until this April. I doubt it'll survive the two references in the article don't seem to mention such a village (I used google translate for the first) unless I'm sorely mistaken. But it's a chance for any experts in Ukraine to determine whether such a village actually exists. Duckmather (talk) 20:33, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

  Question: Why would one "restore and AfD" and not just delete? What is the difference? HappyWith (talk) 21:37, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 23:32, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 06:03, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

• Just notified of this discussion at the talk pages of the target and the creator pages. Jay 💬 06:55, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Criticisms of Mozilla Firefox

• Criticisms of Mozilla Firefox → Firefox  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Criticisms of Firefox → Firefox  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

This page was merged into Firefox back in 2006, but the target currently doesn't contain much in the way of criticisms of firefox, leading to this being a bit of a confusing redirect. TartarTorte 14:20, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

• I'm surprised there's nothing about Firefox per se at Mozilla#Controversies. I'm not sure if targeting there would satisfy readers, but I'm leaning against it. --BDD (talk) 14:42, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
• Maintain - I'm not sure what is a suitable target, but this is a {{R with history}}. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 17:05, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
• Week delete until/unless there is a section on the Firefox article called "Reception" or "Criticism". InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:15, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
• Wherever it goes, maintain as {{R from merge}} per Ivanvector. ^user:A smart kitten_meow 13:49, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

  Interesting that it seems there was never intended to be a specific “Criticism” section at the time of the merge - e.g. the edit summary at Special:Diff/85653841: There was considerable discussion on this matter. Criticism has been re-merged back into the main articles (throughout them, not in a section).

  If there’s no better target found, I think I’d probably weakly support keeping the target as it is (due to having to retain the redirect as {{R from merge}}), but without prejudice to a bold retargeting in the future if a more fitting target/section is found.

  In terms of the avoided double redirect Criticisms of Firefox which I’ve just bundled in here, I’m less sure. It doesn’t have any edit history that needs to be preserved, so that’s not a barrier to deletion there. I’m just unsure what’s usually done here — presumably, if Criticisms of Mozilla Firefox has to be kept due to edit history, it would perhaps also make sense to keep the avoided double redirect pointing to it (a sort of ‘well, maybe it shouldn’t exist, but as it does… type scenario).

  Best, ^user:A smart kitten_meow 08:52, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 05:49, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

• Comment: I’ve boldly bundled Criticisms of Firefox into this discussion, worth noting it is not an {{R from merge}} as the original nom is. Best, ^user:A smart kitten_meow 08:41, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Google Tone

• Google Tone → Google Chrome  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

This is a google-made extension for chrome that was at a point mentioned on the chrome page, but has since been removed. I cannot find a mention elsewhere on wikipedia, so it seems best deleted or restored and AfD'd as it was WP:BLARred. TartarTorte 14:16, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

• Delete - no target text in the article, so just misleading and a bit bewildering to readers. - Ahunt (talk) 14:26, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:R#D8. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:14, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

  This isn't a D8. "Google Tone" isn't a synonym for Google Chrome, nor is it even intended to be interpreted as such, it's a different product which can be installed into Chrome to add functionality. It could, however, be a D10, assuming there's no agreement to restore the article from before you blanked and redirected it. – Scyrme (talk) 18:32, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

• Revert redirect and send to AfD if the article's notability is in question. It's not mentioned elsewhere so there is no appropriate target to redirect to but deletion is questionable given that it was an accepted AfC submission. – Scyrme (talk) 18:41, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
• Restore and AFD if needed; an AFC reviewer thought this was notable enough, another editor thought it wasn't, and to me that's a near-dealbreaker on deletion. I would rather not delete a redirect with history with the potential for a notability debate. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 07:18, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 05:47, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

• Restore article and send to AfD per above --Lenticel ^(talk) 01:11, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Female priest

• Female priest → Ordination of women  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Please discuss at Talk:Priestess#Requested_move_25_August_2023. fgnievinski (talk) 03:22, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

• Unclear what the nominator wants to be done at RfD. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 13:29, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

  Oh dear, I had kindly requested to discuss at another talk page, where a related discussion is ongoing. fgnievinski (talk) 22:13, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete or retarget to priest The target is incorrect, not all priests are ordained, therefore the ordination of women is not the topic article for female priests. -- 65.92.244.99 (talk) 20:39, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
  • Can you give an example of priests who are not ordained? Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:17, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
  • Even if "ordination" is a technical term in certain religions, on the Ordination of women article, it is used generally to refer to anyone becoming a member of any religion's priesthood. It covers the entire scope of what might be meant by "female priest". RedPanda25 02:47, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
• Comment female clergy should also be bundled into this nomination, for the same problem -- 65.92.244.99 (talk) 20:39, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
  • If "female clergy" is bundled in, then my opinion would be to delete' or retarget to clergy per the same reason, many clergy are not ordained -- 65.92.244.99 (talk) 20:39, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
• Pending the nominator @fgnievinski's opinion, I believe that delete is better as having such genders would open up a WP:PANDORA of "gender+profession" redirects. Aaron Liu (talk) 21:36, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

  There are tons of related redirects: [1] I'm not sure what's the best way to proceed. fgnievinski (talk) 22:15, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

  Well since it's just one target, I think all of these that are just "gender+profession" should be deleted. Also, what's "Woman, Ordination of"? Is that some sort of sorting thing? I see no usage of that redirect. Aaron Liu (talk) 14:53, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

• Keep. The current target is the best. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:19, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
• Note: currently there is a move discussion at Talk:Priestess#Requested move 25 August 2023 which is related to this redirect. —usernamekiran (talk) 02:49, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
• Keep per Shhhnotsoloud - if someone prepends "female" to this then the topic is most likely to refer to ordination of women.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:08, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, _signed, Rosguill ^talk 02:19, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 05:45, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

• Keep per Amakuru. Hut 8.5 18:03, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
• Keep, the current target article is the most likely to be useful to someone who searches that term, and the redirect averages 2-3 page views per month so it is being used. RedPanda25 02:47, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

List of people charged with Section 213 of the USA PATRIOT ACT

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 02:28, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

• List of people charged with Section 213 of the USA PATRIOT ACT → Patriot Act  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• List of terrorists caught with Section 213 of the USA PATRIOT ACT → Patriot Act  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

There is no such list at the target. Also, there is a discussion with a moved version of this redirect that got deleted at RfD, here Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 May 27#List of people charged under Section 213 of the USA PATRIOT ACT back in 2015 for being WP:MADEUP.TartarTorte 00:50, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. This redirect exists as the result of a move, and the page it was (originally) moved to was deleted as made up. As far as I can see this redirect is not otherwise helpful, and may be confusing for people randomly stumbling across it. ^user:A smart kitten_meow 09:19, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
• Delete: no such list exists and there is currently no good reason to have these redirects. InterstellarGamer12321 (talk | contribs) 17:51, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review).