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Wigner Energy

In the criticism section no mention is made of the Wigner Energy, which is directly relevant to lattices that are loaded with hydrogen gas for some time, resulting in energy release later from an annealing effect. It should be an aspect of discussions about calorimetry. TheCampaignForRealPhysics (talk) 23:12, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not familiar with it, but its page mentions that 25 eV neutrons are the minimum required to initiate the reaction, which corresponds to a temperature of about 290 thousand Kelvins. That's cooler than typical standard fusion conditions, but it doesn't match the usual definition of cold. There was once a brief discussion of 'globally cold, locally hot' types of fusion with a variety of energetic initiators impacting cold targets, but consensus was that it was off-topic here.--Noren (talk) 05:02, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not talking about neutrons. I am talking about calorimetry taking into account the lattice being stuffed for (hundreds?) hours with protons or deuterons and then the lattice annealing over the course of the actual experiment liberating heat, which is seen as anomalous because it hasn't been accounted for. It's akin to the Wigner Energy, which is substantial and getting into the range of bond enthalpies. TheCampaignForRealPhysics (talk) 19:28, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly a number of questions have been raised over the years concerning energy accounting in many of the experiments, do you have a source tying these concepts together? Wikipedia doesn't do its own research or WP:SYNTH.--Noren (talk) 02:39, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Noren about WP:OR; also, I think the claim by cold fusion proponents is that the "excess heat" is much much more than "the range of bond enthalpies". So a conventional explanation requires either saying that the excess heat never really existed in the first place (which is what I believe), or you need to find a conventional explanation for much more extra energy than is plausible from annealing effects. --Steve (talk) 14:17, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 98: / Line 98: @@
 ::I'm not talking about neutrons. I am talking about calorimetry taking into account the lattice being stuffed for (hundreds?) hours with protons or deuterons and then the lattice annealing over the course of the actual experiment liberating heat, which is seen as anomalous because it hasn't been accounted for. It's akin to the Wigner Energy, which is substantial and getting into the range of bond enthalpies.   [[User:TheCampaignForRealPhysics|TheCampaignForRealPhysics]] ([[User talk:TheCampaignForRealPhysics|talk]]) 19:28, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 :::Certainly a number of questions have been raised over the years concerning energy accounting in many of the experiments, do you have a source tying these concepts together?  Wikipedia doesn't do its own research or [[WP:SYNTH]].--[[User:Noren|Noren]] ([[User talk:Noren|talk]]) 02:39, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
+::::I agree with Noren about [[WP:OR]]; also, I think the claim by cold fusion proponents is that the "excess heat" is ''much much more'' than "the range of bond enthalpies". So a conventional explanation requires either saying that the excess heat never really existed in the first place (which is [https://coldfusionblog.net/2019/03/13/the-case-against-cold-fusion-experiments/ what I believe]), or you need to find a conventional explanation for much more extra energy than is plausible from annealing effects. --[[User:Sbyrnes321|Steve]] ([[User talk:Sbyrnes321|talk]]) 14:17, 13 January 2024 (UTC)