Talk:Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–1950)

Euphemisms?

It's interesting how the article uses language almost euphemistically. "Expulsion" is used in place of where "ethnic cleansing" would be appropriate nearly every single time; Contrast with articles dealing with the Armenian Genocide which use "harsher" language more liberally, so to speak. This article has some major issues. User: Dehler 15:04, 14 January 2020

Expulsion is used when transfered people are guilty, ethnic cleansing when transfered people are innocent. The Sudeten Germans Flocked to Hitler - Herrenvolk und Lebensraum. They were guilty.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.15.218.62 (talk) 07:46, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

There is no such thing as collective guilt. It exists only in propaganda and such language displays inhumane thinking. And maybe you should do a little research on the Sudetendeutsche opposision to the Nazis and their fate. --93.203.105.178 (talk) 14:47, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Supposing there were enough of them remaining.
You should do a little research on the Sudetendeutsche opposision to the Nazis and their fate in Dachau concentration camp and elsewhere during the Nazi-German occupation of the democratic Czechoslovakia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.23.6.193 (talk) 14:52, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

It is claimed that Sudeten Germans expelled from Czechoslovakia were based on the concept of collective guilt. This is not true.
Almost every decree explicitely stated that the sanctions did not apply to anti-fascists.
About 90% of the German population of the Czech borderlands had supported the Nazi and affilation to Nazi-Germany. Some 280 000 Germans in Czechoslovakia remained Czechoslovak citizens after the transfer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.23.6.193 (talk) 15:37, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

I've noticed this issue too. This expulsion led to the use of forced labour, rapes, executions, massacres, and the extinction of German language dialects and cultures. It surpassed the Jewish Holocaust of World War Two in terms of numbers of victims and was a great travesty for German heritage. Take Kaliningrad, where Germans were executed and used as slaves and German culture was erased and replaced (evidence most strikingly in the new architecture of the city. It is simply another example of the vilification of Germans post-war. Doorfrench (talk) 13:49, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

@"didn't apply to anti-fascists": in terms of the degrees this may be technically true (although not all of them contained this restriction), but in practice it meant nothing: one set of my grand parents lived in Czecheslovakia for a few generations. They were communists, and actively fought the Nazis. My grand father died in the process, and my grand mother spent the several years in a Gestapo prison, and was even officially acknowledged as an anti-fascist (including getting special stipend for the rest of her life from the East German government). And she was indeed formally offered the chance to stay in the village she was born: as one of a single-digit number of people (of the entire village), none of which she knew. Now, want to guess what this meant in practice? 174.59.220.235 (talk) 17:51, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Genocide Denial

What's up with the genocide denial in this article? 2003:C0:F720:F000:389F:2BEB:D917:7561 (talk) 08:14, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Because this wasn't a genocide. Not even close. SinoDevonian (talk) 01:16, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

It was a genocide under the CPPCG which says that

any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical

destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Crainsaw (talk) 11:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

No one has denied Holocaust in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.15.223.133 (talk) 12:01, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

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Trail of tears

I have heard some Germans referring to the "trail of tears" and I doubt that they were referring to the one in America as they were talking about WW2. Could they be referring to the ethnic cleansing of Germans in 1945? 2A00:23C7:5882:8201:6DFA:8BC8:9F2C:8F40 (talk) 09:58, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

2.5 million deaths

I'm checking the sources for this number. The third source, Bernd Faulenbach puts the number at 2 million. The second source is a politician giving the 2.5 number in an interview, this isn't reliable by itself. The first source just lists a book with no page number, so this isn't verifiable.

I propose to list the maximum as 2 million, as that's what the reliable source states. Thanks. Stix1776 (talk) 15:14, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Hungary section of the article

In contrast to expulsions from other nations or states, the expulsion of the Germans from Hungary was dictated from outside Hungary. The section mixes the term "forced labor" with expulsion. Approximately 200 000 civilian Hungarian citizens were deported to the Soviet Union as forced laborers irrespective of their ethnicity/nationality. It's not to be mixed with the expulsion of the ethnic Germans to Germany. For the expulsion there was no "dictate from outside Hungary". The source of this information in the article is inactive. Hagnes2002 (talk) 10:35, 17 January 2024 (UTC)