Talk:Nick Drake

Influences

I think this article "overdoes it," so to speak, with regard to the mention of artists that consider Drake an "important influence." I have been watching this article over the past six months or so and have noticed that, gradually, more and more keep slipping in. Not that these things are in any way factually inaccurate; it may be well and good that Norah Jones considers Drake an influence. My point is simply that the way they are presented here are too numerous and "tacked on," and have begun to ruin the prose of the article--which, in my opinion, used to flow beautifully from one paragraph to the next. I'd like the originator to fix this, as I feel that it's a great article that I don't want to edit.--Kwan-Trill 19:09, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

is it really appropriate to put nick drake under the suicide category? it is and never will be clear if he took his own life. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.164.61.162 (talk • contribs) 21:27, 30 October 2005.

What about the posthumous releases, and the recent BBC Radio 2 documentary? Andy Mabbett 21:47, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

{{sofixit}} - blankfaze | (беседа!) 21:55, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

{{wouldifIcould}} Andy Mabbett 22:40, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Removed it. I remember reading some years ago that the AD's he was on back then were fatal if more than one was taken. According to the article/recollection, it isn't clear if ND knew that or not. I don't remember if it said his doctors knew but didn't tell, or not. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 18.239.5.242 (talk • contribs) 00:45, 12 February 2006.

Virtuoso?

Beautiful article, one of my favorites; wouldn't dream of editing it. However...I don't necessarily believe that Nick would be considered a "virtuoso" guitarist by virtue of either his playing style or his playing in general. A gifted, incredibly talented, sophisticated songwriter indeed; but not a "virtuoso" in the purest sense. I have been a guitarist for many years and very much admire his work; Drake's playing is not exceptional either in usage or technique.

I'd venture most guitarists fond of alternate tunings and familiar with his work would disagree with you. His work in alternate tunings, combined with that unparalleled fingerpicking technique (not to mention how his guitarwork on the albums was nearly devoid of 'flubbings') is still a testament to his abilities, decades later. It wasn't just how well he played - it was *precise*. Listen to the enunciation in 'Road'. Listen to the almost-piano-sounding waterfall of group-picking in 'Hanging on a Star'. The closest English singer-songwriter I can think of who's come close to writing with such fluidity in alt. tunings is Mark Kozelek, and it still isn't the same. Any bloke with enough time can go to Iguana and pick up the tabs, and learn to play a song of his (Drake's) without too much trouble. But to play it with the note-by-note attention to detail (instead of flailing fingerpicking) the way Drake did - it requires a helluva lot of concentration, no matter how many years you've been playing.

To *write* songs like these to begin with - not just play them - yeah. He was definitely a cut above the rest. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 18.239.5.242 (talk • contribs) 00:39, 12 February 2006.

Lyrics

I wonder... Would it improve the page to have a little section of quotations from Drake's lyrics (River Man, Road, etc.)? ZephyrAnycon 18:56, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You could put it on Wikiquote; i just added a link to Wikiquote for Nick Drake at the bottom of the article. -℘yrop (talk) 23:01, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)

Is it correct to describe "Fairport Convention" as a "supergroup"? Within Wikipedia, the word supergroup is defined as a group that consists of people who are already famous. That was not true of Fairport when they first got together. Ogg 10:45, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

certainly not correct; I'll fix that. --jamesgibbon 14:05, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

^^Amen!

Posthumous Popularity

Elliott Smith does not consider him an influence, he hadn't heard of him until late in his career. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.58.115.23 (talk • contribs) 04:35, 8 July 2005.

Father's occupation

I'm trying to fact-check this change: [1] Google has lots of articles stating that Nick Drake's father was a medical doctor - but most seem to be derived from Wikipedia itself. There is one which says he was an engineer: [2] Richard W.M. Jones 13:33, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

his father was most certainly and engineer in uganda —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.201.11.102 (talk • contribs) 23:26, 30 October 2005 .

Or ... surely that was Burma? 80.0.124.200 21:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

minor change

the use of "contemporary" was improper in that context; a person naive to the artists following that statement would be unsure if those artists existed in Drake's time or ours. Replaced it with "modern." 147.222.243.236 22:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Singles

what does b/w stand for? anyone? 87.115.228.253 00:22, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

backed with - ie a side backed with b side. The joys of vinyl! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.3.248.243 (talk • contribs) 00:38, 12 February 2006.

Pink Moon sessions

Where does it say that the sessions recorded for Pink Moon were both recorded in precisely two hours each or that they both started at midnight? I know that Nick recorded this album in two nights and late at night but this seems a bit too specific. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.253.46.56 (talk • contribs) 09:38, 25 January 2006 .

Mr Drake

I love him very much, but I regrettably I have nothing to add to his page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Notuxorious (talk • contribs) 11:23, 23 March 2006.

Category Removal

I removed the Suicide and Clinical Depression categories as no one knows what happened when he died and he may have been depressed but Clinically Depressed? Speculation in the article is find, as long as it is stated as specualtion, placing him in the cats is stating it as fact. IMO to include him in these categories is unencyclodedic and POV. If refs are known that would place him in these cats please show them, otherwise it just seems morbid to include them. --KaptKos 07:15, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

The source I cited contains quotes describing the cause of his depression as the lack of record sales. "When Bryter Layter didn't give Nick the success that everyone had expected, selling just 3-4000 copies at the time, Nick, who was already shy and introspective, began to show signs of depression" -- dUtch 23:54, 29 June 2006

Nick Drake died from an overdose, whether deliberate or accidental, of Amitriptyline (trade name Tryptizol), a tricyclic antidepressant. This medication, which requires a prescription, has no other purpose but the treatment of depression -- except possibly as a treatment for bedwetting (and a few off-label uses probably not known 30 years ago). His parents were aware he was taking it, so one assumes it had been prescribed by a physician. If it had been prescribed by a physician, it is fair to assume it was prescribed for depression. If a physician prescribed him medication for depression, then the physician must have diagnosed him as depressed. There is no other meaning of "clinically depressed" besides being diagnosed as depressed by a physician, so I'm at rather a loss to see how including him in this category could be considered either morbid or speculative. --Rrburke 17:08, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

source regarding depression

The quotes under the "depression" heading describe Drake's reaction to his low popularity as a cause of his depression. A friend is also quoted as describing his behavior regarding the administration of his anti-depressants while visiting her.

Face to wall in recording studio and shyness

Joe Boyd's recently released book "White Bicycles: Making Music in the 1960s" (Serpent's Tail, ISBN 1852429100) devotes the best part of two chapters to Boyd's recollections of Drake and working with him.

Boyd recalls that the released version of "River Man" was recorded in the studio with Drake and the orchestra following a conductor. Nowhere is there any mention of Drake chosing to record with his face to the wall. Robert Kirby was unable to come up with a suitable arrangement and so another arranger, Harry Robinson, was bought in. Drake and Boyd met with Robinson and Drake played along with a demo of the song stipulating what he wanted at various points of the song.

Boyd also describes engineer John Wood at length. Wood was an old style engineer who would spend a lot of time placing artists and microphones in different positions until he had the sound he wanted. Wood was also a fairly blunt character, it seems unlikely that he'd compromise a recording by indulging some musician's desire to face a wall.

Boyd makes it clear that Drake lacked confidence and was often undemonstrative, but I do think that urban legend has made Drake out to be shyer and more withdrawn than he really was. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bob Dubery (talk • contribs) 04:58, 3 July 2006.

Lane Changes?

What on earth does lane changes mean in the following context?

'He attended public school at Marlborough College, where he learned how to perform lane changes to perfection.' —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Driverpj (talk • contribs) 14:59, 21 July 2006.

Vandalism, gone now. --Coil00 19:25, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

i think i remember reading richard thompson's name on the sleeve of a couple nick drake records. i just thought that was something interesting (although hardly surprising) that might be included. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.73.97.149 (talk • contribs) 15:20, 24 July 2006.

j.nemo

Anglo-Burmese

I added the category because on Anglo-Burmese, it lists Drake as a notable. If this is inaccurate, see that page. Arual 10:18, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Main problems with the article

• I removed a large chunk of POV material from the article's lead, but traces of POV still remain in the main article.
• Entire sections of the article are unreferenced, namely "Final Years" and "Posthumous Popularity". (fixed)
• The "Music" section either needs to be expanded or removed, its too short and uninformitive now. *For whatever reason, the first 11 citations don't show up anywhere in the article. Also, some citations are repeated numerous times (such as the Trevor Dann piece). (fixed)
• Too many one and two sentence paragraphs. (fixed)
• Needs a thorough copyedit.
• I'd recommend submitting the article to peer review. (article is far from ready)

Teemu08 21:27, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, there seems to me to be some factual errors, (at least acording to the biography I read by Patrick Humphries,isbn:0 7475 303 5) namely:

• While at Marlborough College and Fitzwilliam, he was not shy, and infact quite extroverted, especially with regard to his athletic prowess.
• His success with the wind instuments was very limited, and they were more or less forced upon him.
• Ican't really hear anything in his music what could be called double picking, this could be a misinterpretation of hybrid picking, but in fact he used only flesh and nail, not a pick.

Insist it persists 05:08, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Good points, now corrected Coil00 20:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Musical Issues

Before anyone thinks of placing this as a feature article, some really extensive work needs to be done on his music, his choice of tuneings and incredible guitar playing. How can anyone consider an article on Drake fit for F.A. without some considerable input on this subject? A paragraph on his lyrical themes is also badly wanting. Fergananim 12:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

It'd be great if some passing guitarist or English lit student could expand out the Music section. His lyrics are described at length here, his guitar technique here. If anyone wants a go at paraphrasing and summarising either, would be appreciated Coil00 21:12, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Musical Artist Infobox

Why does the infobox list Nick's "Origin" as Tanworth-in-Arden when he was born in Rangoon, Burma? --Rrburke 17:13, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Well spotted, now fixed Coil00 20:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Rise to popularity

The gap between 1985 and 1999.

It's misleading to illustrate the 1999 BBC documentary as the first major interest in Nick in the 1990's - there was a slow build towards his rediscovery and he was fairly well known in the late 90's, which was probably what prompted the doc. The build in his reputation through the 80's and 90's needs to be fleshed out here, alas I am not the person to do it. I am not a music buff but even I had heard of him before that 1999 documentary.

His time at the Université Paul Cézanne Aix-Marseille III

Since this university wasn't founded until 26 July 1973, how did he spend time there during the 60's? --Bob 22:28, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Not really understanding the difference between the two, and wanting to avoid a dead link, I ref'd the active article 'III'. They seemed to be branches of the same institution. If I'm incorrect, and if you want to flesh this out with a new article, or clarify the link (in some non obstructive way, obviously), that would be great. My sources are vague - Coil00 22:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Difference is that this university simply did not exist under the name of Aix-Marseille III during the 60's so he could not have attended it. The three universities based between Aix-en-Provence and Marseille are not branches of the same university but are distinct entities unto themselves albeit with large amounts of cooperation between them. I will relink to the article about the three. --Bob 14:59, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Archive FAC

I removed the FAC tag, and moved the first FAC to Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Nick Drake/Archive 1; when you're ready to re-nom, the link will go to Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Nick Drake. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Once again I'm thanking you ;) + Ceoil 23:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey, Ceoil, Jeffpw (talk · contribs) was on it as well, but my computer hung just as I was going to explain to him what I'd done - you should be all set for when you're ready to resubmit. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Query

Does anybody know how I might go about tracking down Nick Kent's 1975 NME article? + Ceoil 22:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Found a source. + Ceoil 00:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Spelling

Fixed about 5 or 6 words. andreasegde 13:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Moving Pictures

Do in fact exist of Nick Drake, albeit of him as a child on a beach. They can be seen in A Skin Too Few.

Date of death

Please explain how using the date of death template "looks daft" and "devalues" this article, I find that to be an opinion, expressed as though it were a fact. Andy Mabbett 01:13, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to know why "it looks daft and devalues the article". These templates are being used on many biographical articles throughout Wikipedia. CanbekEsen 01:12, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Point me towards a template discussion. I'm not a big fan of info boxes in general, much less so ones that state the blindingly obvious and underestimate the capability of readers. Is that enough for your coordinated contribution to this FA article. Further more, explicitly stating the age of death is goulish. Ceoil 01:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Discussion is at Template talk:Death date and age. You're simply restating your personal opinion. We've both asked you to justify it. Allegations of "coordination" breach WP:AGF and are, in any case, false. Andy Mabbett 12:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Your right about WP:AGF, its probably a little fantastic to imagine that ye bothered to coordinate a move of this template to the Nick Drake article, so I'm sorry about that. However, I don't see a lot of discussion on the talk link you provided, nor have I ever seen use of this template before. I really don't want to get dragged into a debate like this, except to say I strongly believe that ye are in a minority openion if you think addition of such a basic facts contribute to the project. This edit added the text "Died aged 26"; and that is, in my openion, low value info. Ceoil 02:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone else object to the use of the template on this article? Or agree ?Andy Mabbett 05:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

"I strongly believe that ye are in a minority openion" clearly, you are in the minority (2-1(). Reverting. Andy Mabbett 21:27, 7 April 2007 (UTC)