Talk:Vince McMahon

Please note that this Talk page is for discussion of changes to the Vince McMahon article. Also note that Vince McMahon (the person) is NOT DEAD. Off-topic discussions are not appropriate for Wikipedia and will be REMOVED. Thank You For Your Cooperation.

Billionaire?

I thought McMahon dropped off the billionaires list back in 2001? He's not on the forbes list of billionaires.

According to Wrestleview.com he's not a billionaire. This is backed up by SEC.Edgar-online.com which says he owns about 56m shares. At their current value (about $16) he's worth approx $900m. I'm therefore once again removing the "billionaire" claim unless someone can cite me a reliable source saying otherwise. --DeLarge 08:16, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Here's a more current article based on Forbes 2006 billionaire listing: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a3mkJLePzIag&refer=us McMahon's billionaire status might have been a exaggeration. --Jtalledo (talk) 00:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes his shares would make him worth under 900 Million, but when assets and other investments (such as his homes) are added, it easily pushes him past the billionaire mark

Pseudo-Billionaire? If you wanted to buy the company you would have to pay what he asked for his special voting shares whose rights allow him to control the company 12:51, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Vitalstatistics

Is Vince only 220lb??(Halbared 15:54, 3 June 2006 (UTC))

poor wording in the article

"the two worked to take the pro wrestling business to places that no one ever deemed imaginable."

What the heck is this? In order for something to be deeemed something else, by definition, that something must have been imaginable. A different word should be picked and I don't give half a crap what.

New Era

This new era is featuring alot of shoots and breaking of kayfabe, especially the court room scene on December 5th RAW where Chris Masters was referred to as his real surname Mordetsky in terms of lying under oath. Hi.

I don't really think this was breaking kayfabe as in these situations (even though it wasn't real) you have to use your real name. K-man-1 11:19, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Family

I'm nearly 100% sure vince has another daughter, cant think of her name, who is just not well known because she is not involved in wrestling in any way. -C. Razor

You may be thinking of Marissa McMahon, Shane's wife and Vince's daughter-in-law. I've never seen anything that says Vince has another biological daughter. --Chrysaor 18:27, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

Early career

The article implies that McMahon basically bought the WWF from under his father's nose in a hostile takeover. Is this accurate? If so, it should be made explicit, or re-worded if was spome kind of inheritance dodge.

---

yes, this is the case.

Well, hold on. That's not exactly true. It was a takeover, but it wasn't exactly hostile. After Vince proved to his father that he had promoting talent, he allowed his son to buy the company. --Chrysaor 21:37, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

---you are incorrect. there was no blessing for the younger vince. the other promoters even plotted to kill vince at one point! WillC

A hostile takeover of Capitol Wrestling implies that Vince McMahon, Sr., not other promoters, was opposed to the takeover. Promoters that plotted to kill Vince were NWA promoters that Vince either bought out or had enroached on their territory, not Vince McMahon, Sr., and this was after Vince took over the company from his father. [pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=7677&p=1 This biography of Vince], written by Pro Wrestling Insider, explains the difference. It mentions that Vince Sr. was initially opposed to his son entering the wrestling business, but there is no mention of him objecting when his son bought his company, or that it was a hostile takeover. --Chrysaor 18:21, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

There was no hostile takeover, for it to be hostile 10 men would have had to turn against McMahon sr. including Monsoon. That's not the way it happened at all. What Vince's father did NOT approve of was his son's HOSTILE TAKEOVER of OTHER territories. As far as the other promoter plotting to kill him, please cite a reference to this.

No, it was not a hostile takeover. I have a book recounting Vinces career and it says that Vince Sr. finally decided to sell the company and offering Vince Jr. a chance to buy it. Part of the buy deal was that Vince Jr. needed to pay Vince Sr. some sort of fee and if he missed any of the payments Vince Sr. could nullify the sale.User:Killswitch Engage

Vince in Maryland and Delaware

I heard his family used to have a vacation home on Delmarva. Is it true?

I've heard of that as well, but I do not find it really relevant unless something significant happened there.

The Controversy Section

I have seen the actual video footage of McMahon using the "N" word on Cena at last year's Survivor Series, although finding that video clip on the internet is very difficult to achieve. If anyone (or the one who provided this Controversy section to the article) has the actual video clip of that particular backstage promo, feel free to contribute it as well. There is an online blog somewhere on the web that has a video clip of the promo posted, but currently, it is down. If at any moment, the author of that blog is able to fix the video link, I feel it is appropriate to provide that link here:

Yo buddy all you to do is get the Survivor Series DVD, go to extras and find the scene.--Killswitch Engage 23:55, 23 March 2006 (UTC)Killswitch Engage

Here's the link to the videoclip. It works! The video is clear and the evidence is irrefutable -- http://playahata.com/hatablog/?p=1101

Archival McTannith 04:20, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the "N word" segment from the controversy section as it didn't cause any real controversy (internet whinings don't count as controversy, ok?) Matt

But he did say it. It's an irrefutable fact. Check the link above, which I provided. It has the videoclip of him using the "N" word. By the way, how can it not be counted as a controversy? And your comment about "whinings" is subjective. It isn't a very NPOV description of anything. For the most part, it seems you are defending McMahon's actions by using the term "whining" to demonize those who rightfully point out the fact that he did say "My Nigga" to John Cena. You can't deny history. Archival McTannith 04:06, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

You can't upload video clips to Wikipedia. Also, saying something that could be controversial doesn't necessarily cause controversy. -- THL 04:20, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

But it did cause controversy. It may have not caused a big controversy, but it certainly caused a controversy nonetheless. Archival McTannith 03:16, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Where is there any proof that it caused controversy?

Three links to wrestling boards does not a controversy make. Otherwise everything that ever happened would be controversial because some fanboys were there to argue about it. I removed this so-called controversy.Stardog101 20:13, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Vince allegedly assaulted a woman in the mid-90s

I remember watching on 20/20 around 1995, some woman who claimed Vince got her in his limo and forced her to put her hands on his penis. This definately needs to be added to the article! Buzda 05:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Can you provide a link or some sort of proof that this happened, or even that such a claim was made? Certainly, this sexual harassment allegation you say happened needs to be substantiated before it can be added. [[Briguy52748 20:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC)]]

really, that sounds like it definately nedds a mention

Cleanup

This article is very long and contains a lot of crap (especially with the weekly play-by-play of the HBK and HHH feuds) that I don't have time right now to fix. I encourage everyone to look and removing non-relevant material. --TheTruthiness 20:53, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I think some of this stuff should forked into an article or a section should be created called Mr. McMahon, focusing on the kayfabe stuff rather than real life. The on camera stuff just gets mixed in with the real life bio. --Jtalledo (talk) 18:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed most of the kayfabe stuff and summarized his on-camera exploits. The focus in this article should be on his real-life accomplishments, as opposed to events related to the fictional character. --Jtalledo (talk) 23:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed the cleanup tag, it's below the "may be too long" size limit and looks a lot cleaner. I think the Mr. McMahon article might be a good idea, but no other wrestler has it seperate do I don't know if we need it. --TheTruthiness 01:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Toupee

There should be a section about the toupee controversy that vince had in the 90s Dinobrava 06:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

He really had a toupee? Then why does his hair look the same now? Im baffled... K-man-1 11:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

No Vince did not have a toupee. Otherwise you wouldn't see the hair that have been shaved at Wrestlemania 23.LindsieandLance 05:52, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Current name

As he is a heel right now, isn't "Mr. McMahon" his current on-screen name, and therefore to be bolded? I'll make the change, and check back later to see if there are any problems. Tromboneguy0186 07:15, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that sounds right. --Jtalledo (talk) 12:04, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Vince McMahon's religion

I don't think the references to McMahon being a Roman Catholic are accurate despite his obviously ethnic name which cannot be used as the sole criterion.

True, his father (Vince, Sr.) probably was Catholic, but as his own wikipedia bio text indicates he did not meet his father until he was 12 and lives with a series of abusive stepfathers in North Carolina. There is no indication that Vincent Kennedy McMahon was ever raised Catholic, and thus his children (Shane and Stephanie) are not Catholic unless their mother is Catholic, and there is no such indication.

Re Internet references to religion:

a) My.ImpactWrestling.com :: The ultimate online pro wrestling communityAS I SEE IT 10/31: Jim Ross, Vince McMahon, and a moronic skit ... While raised Roman Catholic, I'm just a person who has worked with people of many ... my.impactwrestling.com/Blog.aspx?BLOGID=6660 - 63k - Cached - Similar pages

Note: the person who was "raised Roman Catholic" is not McMahon but the person who is writing the commentary (some guy named Bob Magee).

b) Biography for Stephanie McMahonDaughter of World Wrestling Entertainment owner Vince McMahon. ... 2003 in Sleepy Hollow, New York at St. Teresa of Avila Catholic Church. ... www.imdb.com/name/nm0573080/bio - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

True - she did marry in a Catholic church, but the groom (husband) was (is) Catholic (Mr. Levesque).

Thus most likely the references to religion will need to be deleted unless additional proof is forthcoming.

WaltzingMatilda 05:59, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

the family IS catholic linda is on the Board of Trustees of Sacred Heart University if your not catholic you ca not be on the board Lil crazy thing 19:13, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

That just prooves that Linda is Catholic, not Vince. TJ Spyke 06:00, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

What in the world is this in the controversy

"he told a WWE stunt technician to sabotage the harness of which Owen Hart was to descend from, which led to his death, rumoured to be due to Owen's erratic behaviour backstage. In other words, Owen's death was a punishment." This absolutely looks fake because even if this was real would Vince Mcmahon actually say this on tv? I am taking that part off that is rediculous Bill102 16:49, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It is Ridiculous to accuse someone of murder without any evidence whatsoever. This was either an act of vandalism or someone with a grudge. There is no reason to keep this. --Edgelord 23:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Please show good faith on wikipedia. TareTone 08:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Name of opening theme song?

Does anyone have the name of Vince McMahon's opening theme song, and/or has a link where i can download it?

Hey Dee-Dee-Dee! The name of his song is No Chance (In Hell)! And you can download it here, but if you don't download it in seven days it will be deleted so hurry up and you should sign your name dude if you ask questions like that. 2wordsforya 14:39, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

HORRIBLE grammar

This article needs a serious rewrite because the grammar makes it almost unreadable.

Be bold and fix the problem, that's what the Wiki format is all about. The Hybrid 22:46, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I cleaned up an especially hideous sentence in the trial section.Stardog101 20:21, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Why?

Why the fuck is Bret Hart/The Montreal Screwjob not mentioned in this article?64.12.117.8 06:15, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

What are you talking about? It's mentioned in the "Mr. McMahon" section with a link to the article about it. --Ultimo Camdawg 22:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, whoops, the comment is a month old. --Ultimo Camdawg 07:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

vandalism

do the personal life section again please

Eric Bischoff comment

The article states briefly that Eric Bischoff in his book said that without him there would be no Mr. McMahon. Can anyone add more to this comment such as why Bischoff says this? --Ultimo Camdawg 05:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe it goes back to the Montreal Screwjob. Prior to Survivor Series 1997, where the Screwjob took place, Bret Hart had signed with WCW. McMahon was afraid Hart would show up on the next episode of WCW Monday Nitro with the WWF Championship. Two years earlier, Bischoff had Alundra Blaze, aka Madusa, dump the WWF Women's Title in a trash can on Nitro. McMahon was afraid Bischoff would have Bret Hart do the same thing, and that led to the Screwjob.

Afterwards, McMahon used the genuine heat he receieved from this to create the Mr. McMahon character. NewPasha 20:13, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I know that the Montreal Screwjob was where McMahon got the heat to make his character, but is Eric Bischoff claiming that if he wasn't interested in getting Bret Hart that there would be no Mr. McMahon character? I want to know what Bischoff said instead of an observation of the events. --Ultimo Camdawg 23:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if he actually said that in his book or not, but on TV he said that word for word. No explanation given. -- THLR^CCD 01:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Political Affiliation?

I'm wondering whether he's a registered Republican or what, since WWE shows have had a decidedly pro-war attitude (primarily concerning Iraq).--Fingerknöchelkopf 07:01, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

How does it show that? Countless Americans, republican and democrat alike, support the troops themselves no matter what their view on the actual war is. The support the WWE shows to the troops and veterans doesn't prove anything, so without any other proof we have no way of knowing. Cheers, -- THL 09:06, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah but there's a difference between supporting the troops and saying that it was a good idea to send them to their current place of residence. It's mostly Republicans who are big Bush supporters who want them to stay in Iraq indefinitely and who parrot the assertion made by the administration and by Fox News about how the media never reports the good stuff that's happening in Iraq. Back when I still watched WWE before I got fed up with these kinds of politics being shoved in my face (and other things), I remember Jim Ross encouraging troops to "go and kick their asses" during a PPV and regurgitating the usual stuff about how they're doing this so we can be free (like Saddam really had weapons and was a threat to our freedom--you know, nobody has the manpower to actually conquer the U.S., they can only kill some of its people, so even if he had WMD he wouldn't have been a threat to "freedom", but I digress). Then, of course, there was the whole thing where Chris Nowinsky came out and protested the war because that made him a HEEL and it got Scott Steiner to kick his ass to the delight of the crowd. Of course later on, Nowinsky went on to have a feud with Steiner wherein he teamed up with those French guys and used all the tried and true heel tactics. Then there's this recap of 2005's Tribute to the Troops, where McMahon comes out and does a shoot monologue where he criticizes the "negative media types" (visit the link and see for yourself).

Oh yeah, the reason the media doesn't report schools being built and so on is because of the same rule that applies to all news: "if it bleeds, it leads." Nobody expected there to be much bleeding at all; people expected it to be basically a repeat of 1991's Gulf War, and if it goes worse than that, it's newsworthy.--Fingerknöchelkopf 20:08, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Man, I'm sorry about the tone of the above message, it's just that this kind of thing has a way of setting me off. Particularly when you take the whole Steiner/Nowinsky thing as Vince (who I presume had something to do with it since he's one of the guys who books the matches and has creative control over all the other stuff as well) saying that anybody who had a problem with the Iraq war deserved to get their ass kicked, which is how I took it. I was channel-surfing on Monday night and caught some of RAW, and decided to watch for a couple minutes, only to be bombarded with pro-war stuff. Then I googled "Tribute to the Troops" and found the recap above, which made me angrier. I could debate this forever but then I'd be shoving my politics in the faces of people who aren't interested just like Vince does, so I won't. Just saying that it might be worth finding out and putting in the entry someplace.--Fingerknöchelkopf 07:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I see. Anyway, Vince may support the war itself, but from the Cryme Tyme skit two weeks ago I would say that he doesn't seem to support Bush. Even if he did, that doesn't necessarily mean that he is a republican. In my opinion, I don't think there is any way to say what his political affiliation is without it being OR at the moment. Cheers, -- THL 11:57, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Kiss my ass club

That gimmick did not deserve a whole section to itself, and as such has been deleated.

• You cannot unilaterally delete a section for the reason stated. I believe that the kiss my ass club is notable enough to merit inclusion in this article and have reinstated it. Further comments and opinions are solicited to determine an outcome. Soltak | Talk 00:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
  • It's been deleted again along with the firings section. Ken S. 12:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

You can't just go deleting whole sections because you feel like it. You have to discuss these things here on the article's talk page first. Blanking whole sections without first getting consensus like that is vandalism. I believe they are a huge part of his character and thus should be in the article. Bmg916^Speak_Sign 12:56, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

McMahon vs. Trump

Why did Mr.McMahon keep saying he has more money then Donald Trump i mean who cares they'er both loaded. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 700 mb (talk) 21:44, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

It's all about the storyline, and the pride that his character has on being successful; he doesn't like being second in anything. Anakinjmt 02:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

How come theres no mention of McMahon going bald? 71.249.82.78 00:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I think we should also update his picture to one of present day (bald). 208.104.254.236 22:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

steroids missing

Any mention of the steroids case is gone, went back through a couple pages of history and couldnt find it, despite it being in googles cache and many other sites reference it. What happened? was it just vandalism that was forgotten? -M^ask 02:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I went back through the history, found it, and re-inserted it, thanks for noticing! Bmg916^Speak_Sign 13:04, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

ecw

On wwe.com he is in the ecw superstar section so he is an official ecw superstar not raw or smackdown.

Agreed, he used to be on the Raw Superstars page, however the artice says he appears on onll three brands, which is accurate, no edit needed.Sephiroth storm 02:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm still shocked that he's ECW champion. Clen_17 9:44, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Trump/McMahon Feud

Since Trump isnt appearing on WWE television anymore shouldn't the part about his current feud with Bobby Lashley be put into a new section?

Rc Her 22:20, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Vince McMahon, Dr.h.c.

As reported on WWE.com, Vince McMahon has recieved an honorary doctorate degree by Sacred Heart University. According to the wikipedia article on this, he can use the title of "Doctor" but the most common usage is "Dr.h.c." after the recipients name. I've added it onto Vince McMahon's title as it's supported by the information provided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bbx118 (talk • contribs)

I removed the reference in the opening to McMahon being a doctor because it's just an honorary degree. I think such a reference doesn't serve the purpose of best conveying information. Readers may get the incorrect impression that he completed a doctoral program. Many celebrities have received honorary doctorates and I don't see them referred to as doctor in their intro paragraphs or as a general practice. A mention of the honorary doctorate, clearly pointing out that it is honorary in the text, might be appropriate elsewhere in the article. --JamesAM 01:03, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Doctor of Hardcore

AS of Vince McMagon's degree from Sacred Heart University, Jim Ross has given him the title "Doctor of Hardcore". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.148.232.34 (talk) 06:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

Merge

If there are no objections, I'd like to merge the McMahon DVD section of this article to McMahon (documentary). As most of the information is redundant, it is useless to have two separate articles that discuss it. Plus, the other article goes into more detail, and it'll prevent Vince's article from becoming too lengthy. I'll probably do it in a couple of days to give anyone time to oppose if they want. Nikki311 02:06, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

East Carolina University Vince's School

It is East Carolina University not East Carolina State University. Although ECU is a North Carolina Funded University the word state is not in the name of the University.

picture

does anybody else think we should add a more recent picture of vince user:sub619 20:32, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Vince's New "Insane" Gimmick

I think it's more retarded than insane. It's like he's a mentally handicapped mindf*ck now.

This isn't a discussion forum.

Protected

I have protected this page. There is too much nonsense going on on this article about his "death." Vince McMahon did not die tonight. It's storyline. This article is a combination of Vince the wrestler and Vince the head of WWE. Because of this, we cannot go around claiming him dead just because the storyline says so. Metros 03:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

It really doesn't matter if this is kayfabe or not, full protection should not have been enabled. This is a current event (in WWE storyline or in real news).

Well that's why I protected this. So people can discuss what to do from here. What should be stated in this article about the event? We cannot add a death date to his infobox or state a date of death, this is a severe breach of WP:BLP guidelines. Metros 03:42, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

It's clearly kayfabe as nearly everything else that happens in wrestling. The nature of the wwe article confirms it. WWE would genuinely be concerned about it if it were real and would give details about the body being taken to the hospital and what not. Borrada 03:50, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed totally with Metros and Borrada. Just like with any other biography, had Vince McMahon actually been killed by a car bomb on live television, it would require appropriate verifiable sources. [[Briguy52748 23:59, 12 June 2007 (UTC)]]

I'm not talking about declaring someone dead, but there was a section dedicated to the "Limo Incident" or "Death?" I believe, since it is a current event, it should still be there and/or edited as new information arises.

Perhaps a "Death" section could be implemented in the Mr. McMahon section with quotes in the title.

It could be used to explain what happened and that it is an angle and nothing more. 74.73.249.5 03:50, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I say we don't give this utter bullshit any recognition at all. This has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever witnessed on live television, right next to Lil' Kim's boob popping out at the MTV VMA's about five years ago. But whatever.

UMMM...any avid WWE watcher knows that "Mr. McMahon" has NEVER on screen opened the door of his own limo, making this a staged event. Y else would Coach have not walked him to the car? Or he have a limo driver? Even the nature of the article on WWE.com states the comments foreshadowing this "incident". WWE has accomplished what it set out to do, by gettin you to get up and research VInce and his "death". KUDOS WWE!!!! KUDOS...(72.147.163.136 04:50, 12 June 2007 (UTC))

• I'm going to go on record and say I support the protection for this article. I put a statement down below stating that I think eventually, the "limo explosion" angle will go into the article, and it probably will sooner rather than later. And yes, I think there may be a correct way to do this without confusing naîve readers or those unfamiliar with the concept of professional wrestling (more specifically the WWE's style). However, this needs to be given thought, and it may not happen until a couple of subsequent RAW episodes air. [[Briguy52748 12:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)]]

• Probably the best idea; last thing we need is a lot of vandalism on this page now that the character is "dead". [[AnthonyWalters 15:52, 12 June 2007 (UTC)]]

What to put for the article

Clearly this is a big part of the Mr. McMahon character what happened tonight on RAW. For now, I think a little backstory as to what led to it followed by a brief explination of the explosion will be satisfactory for now until more WWE shows have aired to give more exposition for this angle. For all we know, he could show up on ECW tomorrow night without a scratch on him.Kyle C Haight 03:47, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

What we should do is just state that on the June 11, 2007 episode of WWE RAW, Vince Mcmahon stepped into his limo during the end of the broadcast. Upon stepping into said limo, it burst into flames. WWE.com has presumed him dead. Killswitch Engage 03:51, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that what was put before, about the summary of the episode (Appreciation Night, people dissing him, and the limo explosion) should be listed under "controversy - involvement in storylines" Socby19 04:15, 12 June 2007 (UTC)Socby19

We put nothing. Read this: [1] Tails0600 21:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Eventually, I'm sure this article will include the "limo explosion" article in some way. At this point, all I have seen are the Wilkes-Barre Times-Leader and a similar article from The Citizens' Voice, which I have (elsewhere in this page) recommended for reference; at this point, I've no idea if or how the Associated Press or other mainsteram media will cover this. More suggestions on how to address this in an encyclopediac article are in the thread below. (A side comment: I am surprised at the volume of comments about the "limo explosion," whether it was real, how did it happen, etc. While this is great, let's try to keep on the topic of how should this storyline be incorporated into the article, if at all). [[Briguy52748 22:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)]]

Separate articles?

Considering recent, ahem, events, would it be feasible to create two separate articles, one on the character and one on the person. This has been put into place for Stephen Colbert (the real person) and Stephen Colbert (character). This way we can keep kayfabe and real life separate. On the other hand something like this could create too many articles, such as the real life Brooklyn Brawler or something, but Vince is established enough to merit an article for each of his personas: Vincent K. McMahon, real-life businessman, and Mr. McMahon, kayfabe autocrat. --Valley2city^₪‽ 05:23, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

You could that for every wrestler, though. That would be bad --Maestro25 05:32, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

And it would be confusing.LindsieandLance 05:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

this would make a lot of sense due to the fact that the gimmicks of most wrestlers are already incorporated into their articles while vince's is a little ambiguous on the distinction between the vincent kennedy mcmahon and "mr mcmahon" personas

Regardless of where this goes

I do think that there should be some kind of mention of the episode on the page. The only reason I ended up here was to see what Wikipedia had to say, as I most frequently come here for current events. That Wikipedia appears to have nothing to say at all is very disappointing to the regular Wikipedia visitor like myself. Let's try to get a very safe and conservative sentence put on the article to recognize it at least happened, and then tag it as a current event so that it is not presented as an unchanging fact.

It should be tagged and mention of this kayfabe "death" should go under the "Controversy" section, seeing as, particularly in the post eddie guerrero world, doing a "death" angle is going to be controversial.69.9.31.137 07:20, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

There is more to life than Eddie Guerrero's death, so people should walk on egg shells because he died? Ugh...people sometimes --Fr3nZi3 08:06, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

External Links

I tried to visit his profile on WWE, and was greeted with the message of not found. I looked under ECW, Raw and Smackdown with no luck. It would seem they have removed his profile now he is no longer the ECW Champion.

TheFreak2007 14:13, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Why no mention of his character's presumed death in the article?

Obviously no sane person believes Vince McMahon the person is dead. Also we don't even know if his character is dead. But this article should mention this event. It should state that according to the official WWE website, the McMahon character is "presumed dead" and in fact, they are mourning him at WWE. [2] If Harry Potter were "presumed dead" at the end of a book, it would be a big enough event to put into the Harry Potter article. (note I don't read Harry Potter or know anything about it, so that's not a spoiler, Harry Potter is not dead, just making an example) It won't let me add anything to the article, so someone else please add something like...

"On the June 12th 2007 edition of Raw, Mr McMahon entered his limo and it exploded, in kayfabe. They did not show him leaving his limo. The official WWE website is currently stating that the McMahon character is presumed dead."

That's all you have to do. Edward4321 19:19, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I definitely agree. While I'm sure the exploding limo is staged, it clearly is still clearly a huge, significant event when it comes to Vince McMahon as a fictional character. Since the article discusses both the actual real life biography of McMahon and key moments of his fictional biography, this event deserves mention in the portion of the article that talks about how he portrayed himself on his television shows. Dugwiki 21:57, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Update from Local Print Media

http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakingnews/20070612_12wwe_breaking.html Done. 72.226.196.12 20:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

That's hardly a credible source. --Maestro25 20:57, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

You're kidding me, right? It's the newspaper from the area. They are the ones with the best access to the site of the "murder" and the police and firefighters who "investigated" the "crime." Metros 21:00, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Check the link again. They updated it. I can not believe that there are people out there above the age of 13 who think this is real. Legendotphoenix 21:07, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the point of the newspaper articles — in mainstream media, which as I understand Wikipedia policy is acceptable to use per WP:NOR — was that there was a certain segment of the population who saw the USA Network broadcast of the limosuine explosion and presumed Vince McMahon was unable to escape (rather than thinking, "hmmm ... must be some sort of stunt"). I have added more thoughts below about ways this can be acceptably incorporated into an encyclopediac article, not some kayfabe b.s. [[Briguy52748 21:51, 12 June 2007 (UTC)]]

What I will put in this article

Based on suggestions above, this is what I propose to add to this article:

On June 12, WWE aired a segment at the end of RAW that featured McMahon (in character) entering a limousine moments before it exploded. The show went off-air shortly after, and WWE.com reported the angle as though it were a legitimate occurrence proclaiming that McMahon was "presumed dead."<ref>http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/mcmahonexplosionupdate</ref>

Does this look fine? Metros 21:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

It looks fine to me, but as far as where it goes, I suggest under "controversy, involvement in storylines" Socby19 21:20, 12 June 2007 (UTC)Socby19

Yeah, that's precisely where it was going to go, in the storyline section. Metros 21:21, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

"even going so far" doesn't sound neutral.

Fixed, how's that look now? Metros 21:29, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Good. Looks fine. Definitely should go under the "Mr. McMahon" section though so it can be made clear that the character is presumed dead not the actual person.-- bulletproof ^3:16 21:32, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, if you could add a slight back story of the 'depression angle'. "Even going so far" wasn't me, although I do agree with it now that I read it more carefully. I would put "...it were a legitimate occurrence, proclaiming that McMahon was 'presumed dead' within minutes of the incident". Socby19 21:32, 12 June 2007 (UTC)Socby19

I think anything that is added would need mainstream media sourcing. I have found two such soruces. One is at The Citizens' Voice (article titled WWE's McMahon still alive after W-B Twp. 'explosion'), the other from the Wilkes-Barre Times-Leader (Vince McMahon’s hoax goes up in smoke). Both explain the background behind the stunt and contain non-kayfabe comments from WWE and township (i.e., non-wrestling) officials, and acknowledge that fans from across the country have called to see whether what they had witnessed a live explosion and a man unable to escape the burning wreck. This is easily done, I'm sure. I'm sure references to the "live, breaking news" stories about McMahon's supposed demise at [wwe.com] would have to be added for illustrative purposes. [[Briguy52748 21:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)]]

Okay, after some tweaking I have this:

On June 11, WWE aired a segment at the end of RAW that featured McMahon (in character) entering a limousine moments before it exploded. The show went off-air shortly after, and WWE.com reported the angle as though it were a legitimate occurrence proclaiming that McMahon was "presumed dead."<ref>http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/mcmahonexplosionupdate</ref> The explosion was staged the previous day and the real Vince McMahon was not killed.<ref>http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakingnews/20070612_12wwe_breaking.html</ref><ref>http://www.citizensvoice.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18462342&BRD=2259&PAG=461&dept_id=455154&rfi=6</ref>

Thoughts? Metros 21:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

The filming of the previous day shouldn't be mentioned. If I were able to edit, I would add: "On June 11, WWE aired a segment at the end of RAW that featured McMahon (in character) entering a limousine moments before it exploded. The show went off-air shortly after, and WWE.com reported the angle as though it were a legitimate occurrence proclaiming that McMahon was "presumed dead within several minutes." I would also add a back story of the depression angle, but I'm not sure the best way to put it in words. Socby19 21:53, 12 June 2007 (UTC)Socby19

Socby19 — At some point, the fact that the "limo explosion" was pre-taped, then spliced into the live footage (to pull off the illusion of McMahon's "death") will have to be included in the article. Not necessarily now, but at some point; if not here, certainly the kayfabe article or other appropriate article. [[Briguy52748 22:07, 12 June 2007 (UTC)]]

I put the real world spin of it in there only because there are going to be a ton of "he's really dead!!!" comments in the article when this gets unprotected. Adding those references will (hopefully) help to deter some of that. Metros 22:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

In addition, this article needs to put into context what's real (it was a stunt to advance a storyline) and what's fiction (Vince is dead); the kayfabe article (which also needs work, could help complement this). Someone who is a lot better than I am at this will no doubt go in and discuss the segment that aired on the June 12 WWE RAW in a real world context, and life will go on. Yes, we'll still have to be on the lookout for marks who truly and honestly beleive that a man was incinerated by a car bomb on live television, and we editors will need to continue to patrol this article to erase inappropriate statements ... but working together, the article will be written appropriately, revised as the storyline and real-world fallout (if covered in the national media; it hasn't as I write this) unfolds over the coming weeks/months/years, and life goes on as we turn our energies to other articles. [[Briguy52748 23:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)]]

Create second article for fictional character

There's an article about Jerry Seinfeld and an article about Jerry Seinfeld (character). It's an elegant prototype solution to the Vince McMahon fact/fiction problem. I like this idea. Although it should be noted that Seinfeld was a character on a sitcom, while some people for some reason (which is really beyond me) actually believe that the character and the real person are one and the same. However, that doesn't change the fact that those people are very mistaken, and I think this solution is actually perfect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.215.161.71 (talk • contribs)

I agree this should be done for all wrestling personas. Personas are characters that are played by actors. Too many articles are ruined by the grey area between fiction and fact. (203.222.110.46 01:40, 13 June 2007 (UTC))