Talk:Moscow

Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived. If further archiving is needed, see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.

Previous discussions:

• Archive 1 (2004 to November 15 2005):
• Archive 2 (November 16, 2005 to December 2, 2006):

Media section

Is the Media section really necessary?--Planemo 12:15, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Copyrighted Photos

Many photos in this article are copyrighted. Please try to use free images for Wikipedia articles, instead of copyrighted images. An article on a major city like Moscow should not need to use any copyrighted images. --Mamin27 02:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Some of the copyrighted photos: 100px 100px 100px 100px 100px 100px

How would you imagine a non-copyrighted image of a building being constructed?--Nixer 21:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

• You don't need it for Moscow. It's not fair-use to put a copyrighted picture of a building that is unnecessary for the Moscow article. Maybe it's fair-use in the specific building article, but not in the Moscow article. An article like Moscow should not depend on copyrighted photos. --Mamin27 07:10, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

  You wrongly understand fair use.--Planemo 20:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Proper Russian spellings

I understand the temptation to insert foreign (i.e., English) spellings into an article about Russian, but I have learned from my studies in Wikipedia that this is not acceptable. For example, over on the Franz Josef Strauss article, the following editors—

Gryffindor
Haukur Þorgeirsson
C.Löser
Edinborgarstefan
Schubbay
Darkone
Sicherlich
Angr
Reinhard
Stern
Denniss
Carbidfischer

made it abundantly clear that using an incorrect spelling, simply because it is the "normal" English translation, is just wrong. We need to stick to correct spellings of proper names. These editors have been around a lot longer than me, and most of them are European, so we need to listen to them. They know better than English speakers. 65.80.244.202 19:17, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I assumed good faith yesterday and simply warned not to do this again. But you are continuing, which means that you are vandalizing the page to prove a point. TSO1D 19:21, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Security dealing with crime

There should be stuff about how Moscow's security forces deal with the high crime rates if at all. I just can't find any info on Moscow secuity.

Hi. I spent four days in Moscow (March 17, 2007 to March 20, 2007) and found the city to be quite safe, despite all the articles I had read on the internet that warned about high crime rates as well as racial violence dealing with skin-head and neo-nazi gangs. While in Moscow I did not run into any gangs of skin-heads/neo-nazis at all. I was particularly worried inittially since I am from Mexico and though I would be an easy target for those racist groups. Like I said, however, I did not see any of those gangs in Moscow, so that was comforting. The only thing I have to add with regards to safety is that I am very pleased to see that Moscow is not quite at the high crime rates of western cities such as Chicago, Houston, Mexico City, etc. I was a little dissapointed with the russian's cold character that seemed rude to western standards, however, one has just to understand their culture I guess. One last thing, you MUST learn russian before you go to Russia. It is not like other countries in which you find people that speak some english. Even the few russians that speak english expect you to know russian. So long.66.68.254.13 01:01, 24 March 2007 (UTC)David66.68.254.13 01:01, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Deleting the image of Federation Tower

I suspect the image is fully valid. It is a fair-use image from a press-kit and it cannot be replaced because it is the architect's view of the project and any other drowings imitating the building will be inaccurate. Anyway we should provide some images of how the architects plan the IBC will look like. To those who deleted the image: please explain your position.--Dojarca 09:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The gallery

I think we shall not delete the gallery unless the most notable images are placed in the article proper.--Dojarca 10:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Tell that to Featured Article Objectors! It is not normal for an encyclopedic article to have a gallery of pictures. Please do not put the gallary back. --Hirakawacho 20:03, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Most articles about cities have galleries including such as New York, Beijing, Tokyo, Shanghai. Please do not impose double standards here.--Dojarca 21:22, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Dojarca Click here Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Moscow. Until you are willing to explain to the objectors you position I am afraid I have no choice but to listen to the objectors. So please tell them, not me. If it is featured it will be on the main page. --Hirakawacho 23:06, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

None of the four articles you noted are featured. There may be a few city articles with galleries, but this is not a place for showcasing pictures of arbitrary places in Moscow. If you want a gallery of Moscow photos, we have the Wikimedia Commons page for that. -- tariqabjotu 17:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Deleted Links

I added links to the waytorussia.net guide to Moscow (http://www.waytorussia.net/Moscow/Guide.html) in General and Russia Today TV (http://www.russiatoday.ru/test/) in Media and was told they were deleted because they were "inappropriate". Any reason why? I understand Russia Today might be considered biased because it's state-owned. At the same time it has some interesting stuff and it doesn't hurt to see a different perspective. At any rate, NTV (which has a link) is essentially state-owned as well. As for waytorussia.net, that site has more information than my Russian Lonely Planet guide does. So what's the deal? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Globe traveller (talk • contribs) 08:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

History Section; 2nd paragraph; last line

"The Russian capital, which had wandered from Kiev to Vladimir, came to rest in this city by the end of his reign, and Moscow became the capital of an empire that would eventually encompass all of present-day Russia and parts of other lands."

This line needs work but I don't know enough Russian history to make the changes myself. Russian capitals don't "wander." Did the capital move from Kiev to Vladimir? Is Vladimir a person or a city?

I believe the line should read this way: "The Russian capital was moved under Vladimir's reign from Kiev to Moscow. The city became the capital of an empire that would eventually encompass all of present-day Russia and parts of other lands."Ryanpm4545 22:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Vladimir is a city in this context.--Dojarca 00:39, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll clean up the line a little Ryanpm4545 16:17, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Crime Section

I've undone user:76.189.210.252 previous edit. They wanted to remove the crime section as they said it "totally irrelevant you cant post such specific events)" ... What does anyone else think? A city page should cover all aspects - both good and bad... It seemed to be well referenced to me, and the person who added it had a user name and had made contributions before, unlike the reverter.. But I'm open to suggestions! --Tomhannen 09:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

And should we add specific crime events that happened in New York City, or Los Angeles? Adding a crime section is fine, but making it limited to one specific event does not meet wikipedia's standards.

-That guy

The best thing to do would be to move the contents of this section to Crime in Moscow and link to it from the "see also" section of this article. When/if crime in Moscow grows, it can be summarized, and that summary can be placed into the Moscow article as a separate section. The way the section is now it really shouldn't be included.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:18, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed - this sounds like a good way to go - I'll have a go when I get the chance. --Tomhannen 21:34, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Change of reference

The 11th reference ("tallest free-standing land structure in the world and today remains the world's second-tallest") points to a newspaper article that gives only collateral information. I suggest to change that link for http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0886190.html, that gives information about: towers, heights, date of construction, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 163.117.139.225 (talk) 09:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC). --163.117.139.225 09:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

spelling

I ran the article through a spell checker and found that some of it was in Commonwealth and some in US English. It appeared that US was the main spelling so I started changing over. However I found that proper names such as Bolshoi Theatre, Cathedral of Christ the Saviour (Moscow) and "... Soviet State Committee of Defence and the General Staff of the Red Army..." wer all using Commonwealth. Rather than have two types of spelling I changed them all to be Commenwealth. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 00:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

maneges

I'm not sure how this fits in the article. Near the start of the sports section it says "...besides eight football and eleven light athletics maneges...". A "manege" is according to my dictionary "A school for teaching horsemanship, and for training horses". So the sentence seems to be saying that in Moscow there are "eleven light athletics horse training/horsmanship schools", is that correnct? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 00:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

400 BC ??

I have removed the following unreferenced fragment:

However, the most important fact was, that all Finno-Ugrian and Tatar-Turkic languages used the same word, despite its meaning, of Moskova. From this it can be calculated that Moskova existed at least from c.400 BC.

This is not an established fact but most probably a marginal theory or even original research Alex Bakharev 05:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciations

I'm concerned by these pronunciations listed, especially for American English. Perhaps the pronunciation to which I've been exposed is related to my region (Fort Worth/Dallas metroplex, northwestern Texas), but use of the diphthong [aʊ] is unimaginable. Upon polling some friends (for untampered data, of course), the prevalent pronunciations as heard by the people in this region are [ˈmɑs.ko^ʊw] or [mɑs.ka^ʊw] (approximately rhyming with 'cow'), where the second has no audible distinction in accentuation. The key fact is that both terminate in either a voiceless labiovelar consonant or a reduced secondary vowel. I suspect that this data is not severely affected by my location in the U.S. since most television programs use a standard broadcast dialect. If there is a regional variation, my instinct tells me that the first I listed is the version used in snootier (or faux British) usage, and the second more familiar to the locals. 12.147.134.239 05:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC) (Ub3rm4th)

Population

Probably there are 10,4 million official registered inhabitants and 13,7 million total population includng illegal migrants.--Dojarca 05:36, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Too Big Head for Russia?

It is interesting to compare some population figures of Moscow. In 1237 it was far less than 5.000 inhabitants. In 1750 about 150.000. In 1850 the population had doubled to 300.000. Much larger absolute growth was difficult before the advent of the railways made possible greatly increased supplies of food and raw material outside the natural surrounding Volga Oka region. In 1913 the population was 1.500.000 inhabitants. Now, in 2007 about 14.000.000 inhabitants ( both legal and illegal population). In the case of emergency, if the food delivery collapses this number of population is the first to suffer from food shortage which leads to hungry riots and uncontrolled flood of refuges of hungry people to surrounding areas. The most suitable population for this size of population in European Russia is about 5.000.000 inhabitants. Even more worster is the location of St.Petersburg, the surrounding area can by natural means only supply a city of less than 2.000.000 inhabitants.

JN