Talk:Athens

Regarding the Article , there are no information about the economical significance of Athens for Greece. This is pathetic. Please see the Paris article or Rome article to see a how you can add it.

Splitting

Please consider moving much of this content to an Ancient Athens article since a modern city does exist. --Jiang 15:45, 2 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I think Smack's decision to copy the existing articles Athenian democracy and Delian League into this article was a mistake, which should be reversed. We don't turn stubs into articles by padding them with text from other articles. I agree with Jiang (gasp) that this article should deal with modern Athens only. Adam 16:24, 2 Jan 2004 (UTC)

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"Its subway system is the Attiko Metro which runs from Piraeus to Kifissiá (Cephisia) of most of that line is outside, The red runs from Dáphni and plans to end at Peristéri (first opened in 1997), and the blue begins in Aigáleo (Aegaleus) and now ends NE near the Penteli area."

This paragraph doesn't make much sense. What does "of most of that line is outside" mean? What are the red and the blue? Please rewrite it in coherent English Adam 06:33, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)

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Runs outside means probably runs overground (it does actually).

Sotiris 6 April 2005

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There are many errors in the page, but I don't have time to correct them right now, and there are some that I don't know how to correct, so I'm just taking some quick notes of my thoughts here, so that we correct them later.

The Athens Metro system is called "Athens Metro", not Attiko Metro; the later is the name of one of the companies responsible for it. The information about the metro lines is incorrect, and anyway "Athens Metro" should be another article.

There is no "Athens Polytechnic"; it is called "National Technical University of Athens" (it's a very bad translation of its Greek name, but that's how it is officially named in English - see http://www.ntua.gr/).

PAOK is not a soccer team of Athens; it is of Thessaloniki. PAO was intended, which is more commonly called Panathinaikos (PAO means Panathinaikos Athletikos Omilos, that is, Panathenean Athlete Group). This is, I think, the only team of the Municipality of Athens. Now if we include the other teams, which are from other municipalities of greater Athens, we would have to include Olympiakos, which is of Pireus, and it needs careful phrasing, or Olympiakos fans may be offended if we write that Olympiakos is a soccer team of Athens, because they use to distinguish between Pireus and Athens and they have long-term rivalry with Panathinaikos.

I need to look this up, but I believe the Acropolis was first inhabited in Neolithic times. It was around 4500 BC last time I checked (ongoing archaeological investigation continously pushes that date back).

Athens has a long history and it's not easy to separate it into ancient Athens and modern Athens, as was suggested. There is Mycenean Athens (until the beginning of the dark age, around 1100 BC), Classical Athens (from end of the dark age, around 800 BC, to 529 BC, when the schools were closed), Byzantine Athens, up to 1458, Ottoman Athens, up to around 1830, and modern Athens. Distinct articles about specific periods of history would be nice, but I still think an outline (maybe more brief than the existing one) is necessary here.

Antonios Christofides, 10 Jan 2004

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Thanks for that. The stuff about the soccer teams and the metro were included by a user who I think is Greek so I assumed they were correct. Now that I know they are not, I will delete them. They don't add much to the article anyway.

The Polytechnic appears as Polytekhnio on my 2002 map of Athens - that may not be its legal name but it seems to be the name it is still called by.

Adam 13:19, 10 Jan 2004 (UTC)

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How about showing the Parthenon and the modern Athens pictures right next to each other in the opening. I know Athens is a modern city, but at the same time, the Parthenon is an internationally-recognized symbol of the city. WhisperToMe 01:54, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I love the Acropolis and the Parthenon, but they are such visual cliches that I am opposed to leading an article on modern Athens with them. They belong in the history section, unless and until someone creates a comprehensive Ancient Athens article. The Omonia photo is not very glamorous, but it gives a good idea of what modern Athens really looks like. Having said that, what I really wanted was a good photo of Syntagma Square, but I coulnd't find one. Adam 02:16, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I think that I can take photographs of Syntagma Square if you like. Drop me a note on my talk page and I will upload photo(s) soon. Which view do you think is better? The parliament? .'. Optim 04:27, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC) .'.

Technically, the article is on both modern Athens and its past. Also, the city gets lots of tourist revenue on ancient Greek monuments, but I do agree that the past perception isn't what Athens is totally about.

I also headed the Paris article with the Eiffel Tower, the Rome article with the Colisseum, and et al. WhisperToMe 03:00, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

What I did is that I didn't make the Parthenon the TOPMOST image, but I have it with a new segment of a caption that explains that the Parthenon is now part of the city's tourism industry. WhisperToMe 03:30, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

OK well I won't argue about it. I do think using the Colosseum for Rome and the Eiffel Tower for Paris shows a lack of imagination. Adam 03:49, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

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Anybody who wants me to take specific photos of Athens, just write a note on my talk page and if I have the time and the ability I will photograph the area you are interested in with a digital camera. .'. Optim 04:27, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC) .'.

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Surely the modern name of Piraeus is Piraiefs or Pireefs, not Pireas. Adam 05:21, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure how it's spelled, but it's not pronounced with an "ef" or "ev" sound. It's pronounced somewhat like "pee-reh-ahs". --Delirium 05:31, Jan 13, 2004 (UTC)

Found the spelling: Πειραιάς. So "Peiraias" (letter-by-letter) or "Pireas" (phonetically), or possibly the mixed "Piraias", seem like reasonable transliterations. --Delirium 05:35, Jan 13, 2004 (UTC)

Further research shows I am wrong. The ancient name was Peiraius, which if rendered as a modern Greek name would be Peiraiefs or phonetically Pireefs (just as Eleusis has become Elefsis). But the name has actually changed to Peiraias, as noted above, although the ancient name still appears on many modern maps. (as can be seen in the map below) Adam 05:38, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

From what I can tell after some further research, Πειραιάς is the name in the commonly-spoken Dimotiki tongue of modern Greek, while Πειραιεύς, the ancient Greek name, was apparently revived for a time as the official name in the Katharevousa tongue that was made official through the 1960s or so as part of the "cleansing" of the Greek language to make it a bit more like ancient Greek. So it was officially, in the modern Greek pronounciation, "Pireefs", but this name was, like Katharevousa in general, never widely used in daily speech, which continued to call it Pireas. And when the government eventually gave up on Katharevousa entirely, its official name reverted to Πειραιάς, which is what everyone already called it anyway. Or so I understand. --Delirium 07:37, Jan 13, 2004 (UTC)

Katalavaino tora, efharisto poli. Adam 08:19, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

As can be seen here:
File:Ac.atticamap.jpg

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Re this line: "National Technical University of Athens (Ethniko Metsovio Politechnio)." I hestitate to argue with Greeks about Greek words, but this is not an accurate translation. The word for university is panepistimio/n. Metsovo is a town in northern Greece after which this institution was named, because a group of wealthy 19th century benefactors came from that town. A more correct translation would be something like "National Metsovian Polytechnic." In other words, as I originally wrote, it is called the Polytechnic. I realise the institution calls itself the National Technical University of Athens at its English website (presumably because the Metsovian business will puzzle ignorant foreigners), but its Greek website calls it the EMP, and I think we should call it by its real name. Adam 09:18, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

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Adam, you asked be about the modern Greek name of Athens; I don't know if you read the answer (I answered in my talk page where the question was asked; I'm new here and I'm not sure I'm doing everything correctly), so I'm repeating it here:

Athinai is the ancient Greek name of the city; Athina is the modern Greek name. Athinai was also the name of the city in Katharevousa, an ugly mix of old and modern Greek that was the official language of Greece until 30 years ago (more on this in Greek language). Today everyone calls it and writes it Athina. The old name is still found in some old signs. It would thus be more accurate if the article, in its beginning, mentioned Athina rather than Athinai as the Greek name. It probably needs some disambiguation though, because non-Greek people may be not be aware of how different old Greek is from modern.

The same things are valid for Peiraias (pronounced Pi-re-a's), as was noted above.

Now: National Technical University of Athens. As you noted, and I had already noted, it's a very bad translation of the Greek name. The Greek name, Ethniko Metsovio Politechneio (EMP), stands for "National Metsovian Politechneio". It's not actually from Metsovo, it has been in Athens since it exists, but was named this way in order to honour some guys from Metsovo who donated large amounts early in its history.

I don't know how to translate "Politechneio"; I wouldn't translate it as "Polytechnic", because I think that this, in English, gives the impression of an advanced college or something, not a university. In Greek, the word "Politechneio" is now used for engineering universities. Thus, EMP is a university - you study engineering there, and it's the only place you can study it in Athens, since the University of Athens does not have a school of engineering. Other universities, such as Thessaloniki's, have schools of engineering, which are named something like "Politechniki scholi". It was probably fear of negative impressions of the word "Politechneio" that caused the bad English translation.

Now I happen to have studied there, to be working there, and to work with a professor who five or so years ago made a proposal towards the governing body of EMP, in which he explained that such fears are unfounded, because the name of Ecole Polytechnique de Grenoble does not seem to affect their prestige, and that the translation is contradictory and misleading. He proposed to change it into a simple transliteration, "Ethniko Metsovio Politechneio", in order to have the same acronym in Greek and in English, and promptly, before the Internet explosion (the name is in the URL) would make the change too difficult. Unfortunately, it appears that they dismissed or ignored the proposal, leaving us with a problem.

Maps, as you noted, are likely to mark the campus as "Politechneio" or similar. In addition, if you walk in Athens and ask someone "where is the Nat. Tec. Un. of Ath?", you are unlikely to get an answer - people don't know the English name. On the other hand, people who happen to be engineers and read papers are likely to know EMP by its English name, so they could be misled by "Politechnic".

I still don't like "Athens Polytechnic". How about "Polytechneio"?

Sorry about the lengthy gossip, I thought you'd be interested :-)

Anthony 13 Jan 2004

I think either "Polytechnic", as a translation, or Polytechneio, as a transliteration, are reasonable. I believe at least the major ones (Athens, Thessaloniki) fulfill somewhat the same roles as American polytechnic universities (like Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute), so calling them a "university" isn't really far off the mark, despite them not being panepistimia. In the last 10 years or so the distinction is becoming mostly one of field (engineers go to the polytechneio and liberal arts people go to the panepistimio), not of level of education, but usage probably still remains mixed. --Delirium 22:02, Jan 13, 2004 (UTC)

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Efharisto for the clarification on Athinai / Athina - it's a long time since I studied Greek, and since I tried to learn both Ancient and Modern simultaneously, I tend to mix them up. I did know once that Athinai was a katharevousa form (the "ai" ending was actually a plural in Ancient Greek - "the Athenses," because it was originally a group of villages. Thebes is Thibai for the same reason). I will amend the first para to make the change clear.

On the Polytechnic - the reason I mentioned it in the first place was because of the 1973 massacre, which is still a hot issue for Greeks and is commemorated every year. In this context it is definitely "to Politekhnio" whatever its official name may be. I think if you asked an Athenian "what is that building?" they would say "the Polytechnic." The text needs to reflect that. Adam 00:00, 14 Jan 2004 (UTC)

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I agree with Adam: I really prefer a picture of the Athens of today than Athens of the past. I don't like the photograph of the Acropolis in the article about Athens. (Except for the reasons already given by Adam, there's a picture of the Acropolis in Acropolis, and another one in Acropolis, Athens).

I believe that the history of Athens should go to a separate article (this exists for London: History of London), and only a very brief paragraph and a link should remain here. This article should focus on modern Athens. The Acropolis is very untypical of modern Athens, and has little effect on the daily life of most Athenians.

But of course it's a highly personal preference. The Acropolis is indeed the symbol of the city, and it's understandable that one might want to put photographs of the symbol in the articles about cities. I personally dislike symbols, especially when they are misleading.

Anthony, 16 Jan 2004 (could someone point me to how to automatically add/paste my signature, if such a facility exists?)

Type four tildes: ~~~~ Optim 17:50, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I have no objection to the creation of a separate History of Athens article, in which we can have all the pictures of the Acropolis we like (I have dozens!). Adam 04:20, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Whatever you do with Athens, a photograph of Acropolis must remain. Optim 18:28, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC) (!)

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Acropolis

Well, I think most articles in Wikipedia have the convention to display the most well-known building of the city as the first photo in the page. Example: Paris, London, New York, Toronto, Sydney, Moscow. Currently Athens displays the Omonoia Square as the first photo, and the Parthenon of Acropolis is included later in the page. I personally don't have any strong preference regarding this issue, but I think the Parthenon would be more appropriate to be placed first. It is true that few Athenians care about the Parthenon today, IMO, and the "character" of the city has changed a lot from the past (now it is a fast-pacing city, while in the past it was a more peaceful and quiet place). I have also to say that Omonoia Square is not a very beautiful or safe place in Athens, IMO: It is full of drug-users, dangerous or suspicious persons, and not very far away from places of lower social-economic status (just some metres from Omonoia there are groups of ppl who sell illegally-imported cigarettes etc: Athinas Steet). In the past my college (which is private and follows British educational standards) was based in Omonoia and I disliked the place very much; when the college moved away I was very happy that I was not forced to see this noisy place each morning! :) Other students agreed with me, mostly those who had their homes outside the centre of Athens, like me (I live in the northern suburbs, a very quiet and peaceful place when compared to the downtown). I consider Syntagma Square much better than Omonoia, although it also has many drawbacks. Because this is the English Wikipedia I think we can assume that many readers of the Athens article may be possible tourists. I suppose that the tourists are more interested in Parthenon and Acropolis than in Omonoia. At least, Parthenon can still be considered beautiful. Of course a person who lives in the downtown may prefer to see noisy places and big buildings and may consider them as beautiful... But I think (hope) that there are still people who can recognise the beauty of Parthenon and other ancient buildings. I don't think the modern Athens can compete with the Ancient city. I really don't consider modern athens as a beautiful or well-organised city, and I am very sorry to say that. Most (all) foreign students that I know have the same idea with me. So I think it's better to show what is beautiful in a city, and not places like Omonoia which are considered as noisy etc by many people, especially those who have the chance/fortune to live in the peaceful and quiet suburban areas. Of course the Omonoia photo has its place in the Athens article, but it's not necessary to be at the top! Recently I took about 70 photos of Athens and I will upload the best of them soon (you may like to see the first ones in Bank of Greece and Ioannis Kapodistrias). I can take more photos of Parthenon and Acropolis, too (I will). So if you think the current acropolis photo is not beautiful enough, you will have more from me so that you will be able to choose another. So, for all these reasons, because in the other Wikipedia city articles we place the most famous bulding at the top, because Omonoia is not a very well-suited place to be shown to prospective tourists, and because Acropolis is still (I believe) the most famous feature of athens to tourists etc, I suggest to make the Acropolis the topmost photo of Athens, and place the Omonoia (and/or Syntagma, I will upload some Syntagma photos soon) below :) Hope you agree. With Best Wishes for Peace Profound, .'. Optim 07:02, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC) .'.

I thought we had already had this discussion several times. Wikipedia is not a tourist brochure - it is an encyclopaedia. Omonia is much more representative of modern Athens than the Acropolis is, and that's why I deliberately put it at the head of the article. Why is it our job to give people photos they have seen a zillion times before? People use encyclopaedias to learn things. At this article they will learn what Athens really looks like. Adam 07:11, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

well I didn't mean to make it a tourist brochure... it's mainly about consistency with other city articles. Of course we need to show how Athens looks like in reality, and some of my photos shows this very clearly (I will start a "photos of athens" article soon). Optim 08:55, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Well, it's a little ambiguous, because the article is simply entitled Athens, not precisely modern Athens. Thus it of course should cover the entire history of Athens, from ancient times up to the present day. I'm not sure which portion should be given priority, as both are fairly important matters to document in an encyclopedia. On the one hand, modern Athens is more temporally relevant, but on the other hand, ancient Athens has generally more influence and importance in the English-speaking world than modern Athens does. --Delirium 08:40, Jan 25, 2004 (UTC)

The only solution to this is to split the article in two, which I will do soon. Adam 08:46, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

That sounds reasonable, though I think some of the ancient stuff should stay in the "modern" article (albeit not at the very top), because it is a fairly important part of modern Athens's cultural identity. --Delirium 08:50, Jan 25, 2004 (UTC)

Splitting this between Athens and Ancient Athens is a bad idea, IMO. A great many links to this page are from ancient topics. This article should be about the whole history of Athens. If and when the history section of this page gets too long, then and only then would a History of Athens article be created. --mav 10:07, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The view of people working on this article (of which I don't thbk you are one) is that it is too unweildy as one article and ought logically be split. Kindly don't revert other people's work without knowing what is going on. Adam 10:14, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Then create a History of Athens article for the detailed history and add a summary here as is standard practice for ancient cities. Look at all the links to this page that are from ancient topics. Article linking must be based on common usage and common sense. Athens no more belongs to the modern city as it does to its very notable past. Thus have an article that introduces both and have standard daughter articles cover the detail of certain sections (such as the history if needed). --mav 10:19, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

No response? Fine, I'll do what I proposed myself at Ancient Athens and then move that to History of Athens. Then I'll summarize some of the modern history here and move it over the detailed history article too. --mav

Do as you please, I'm sick of arguing with people today. So long as you solve the problem of people insisting on heading the article with a touristy photo of the goddam Acropolis (see above ad nauseam). Adam 10:42, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I'm aware of that but I think your particular solution is not a good one for other reasons. I in fact agree that the an overview photo of the city is far more important for the main Athens entry. So I like the current photo. --mav

Whatever happens, the Acropolis must stay here, as it does bring in tons of tourist revenue and is recognized as a symbol of the city, even if the modern Greeks dont put significance on it. At the same time, on the History of Athens page, I replaced the color photo of the acropolis with a b/w photo to "show" the history. WhisperToMe 17:27, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Oh, and while we are at it, lets move the "Outline history" to the Ancient Athens article then move that to the "history of Athens article" - Then we can quickly summarize the history "news style" in the main Athens page. WhisperToMe 17:32, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

One more thing, I know that Greeks today aren't obsessed over the Acropolis and that it had more of a purpose back then. As this is the English speaking Wikipedia, most people seeing this are outside of Greece. I know that it sounds cliche, but the Parthenon is THE symbol of Athens to foriegners, and it is a big source of income to the city. You have to make the topmost image obvious... most people seeing the modern Athens at the top will go "Who cares about this?" - Its fine to have it somewhere.

Another thing, no matter what, the Acropolis MUST stay in this article. WhisperToMe 23:07, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

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As WhisperToMe says, the Parthenon of Acropolis must be included in the Athens article. See what the British Committee for the Restitution of the Parthenon Marbles say: "The Parthenon is the most important symbol of Greek cultural heritage and according to the declaration of universal human and cultural rights the Greek State has a duty to preserve its cultural heritage in its totality, both for its citizens and for the international community." no foreigner would recognise Athens by Omonoia, but Acropolis is the standard world-wide symbol of our city. -- Optim 06:10, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

This really is very tiresome. It is not an encyclopaedia's job to help Athens earn "tons of tourist revenue." It is our job to give readers new information. Everyone who can read knows what the Acropolis looks like, why give them yet another picture of it? Few readers know what the real Athens, home to 3 million people, looks like. It is our job to show them. Why is this so hard to grasp? Adam 08:08, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Of course we will show how modern Athens looks like. I will prepare on "images of athens" article which will include photos of Athens, both ancient and modern. But Acropolis has very important emotional and symbolic value and we cannot "kill" the past in the name of encyclopaedisation. :) Optim 09:18, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

How about this: a photograph of the Acropolis taken from a modern city street, showing it in context of modern buildings. I took some pictures like this last time I was there. To me, as a humble visitor, that's my impression of Athens: a modern city, but then all of sudden, out of nowhere, looms something Ancient that reminds you of the glorious eons of time over which the city has been inhabited. Just my two cents. -- Decumanus 08:15, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

good idea. Adam 09:42, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

That is a great idea! WhisperToMe 01:14, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I took some pictures with this attitude (ancient & modern buildings together), but not showing Parthenon; I didn't find a good place to take photographs of Parthenon yersterday, so I took this kind of ancient+modern pictures with another Acropolis temple. After some processing etc I will upload this week. Optim 06:19, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Have a look at Images of Athens and tell me your opinion. If you have photos of Athens which you can publish under GFDL, fell free to add them there. Optim 08:43, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Well guys there are two possible views of Athens. Either as a native or as a tourist. As a tourist you will see the Acropolis. As a native you will see the modern city. None of the two groups will see Omonoia or will think of Omonoia as representative for Athens!! That is because tourists (if they are minimally rational) will never spend much time in Omonoia but visit the monuments instead. Natives will of course go to places like Syntagma square, Kolonaki, Kifissia, Psirri etc. So choose one of the two views, but by no means not claim that a ghetto-like place like Omonoia with 90% junkies and illegal immigrants is real Athens...

History of Athens

I think that the big Parthenon pic should stay. It shows how long the Parthenon has been in the city. As a matter of fact, I think all modern-color pics of stuff still standing should be moved to the Athens page, with all of the b/w and historical photos at the history page. WhisperToMe 06:06, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It doesn't show us any such thing. The Parthenon is 2,500 years old. Why is a 19th century photo any more informative than a 21st century photo? If you have a photo from the 5th century BC, by all means post it. Adam 07:05, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, it is too big and its quality is too poor. So I made it into a thumbnail. This both looks better and takes up less space. Everybody happy with that? --mav 06:16, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I think one photo of the Parthenon on this page should be sufficient, really. It is a major icon of both ancient and modern Athens (both to visitors and to many who live there), but Athens has enough stuff in it that there isn't really room for more than one picture of any one landmark in this article. Same way we only have one image of the White Tower of Thessaloniki in the Thessaloniki article. --Delirium 07:10, Feb 7, 2004 (UTC)

Err, correction. Apparently we have zero pictures of the White Tower in the Thessaloniki article. That's an oversight, since it really is a major part of the city (it's the most notable landmark in the downtown commercial district). But that article is currently too short to really fit it. --Delirium 07:11, Feb 7, 2004 (UTC)

Delirium, we were talking about the History of Athens article in this thread, but the talk moved to Talk:History of Athens

New Parthenon pic

The relatively intact western face of the Parthenon

I consider this photo that Adam put up to be very beautiful. I think this should head the Athens article until my request to Optim can be filled out. WhisperToMe 16:09, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Reason for moving Omonia down

<Vicious]> Oh <Vicious]> That of that Omonia Square <Vicious]> Yea, Adam Carr REALLY wants Omonia Square first <Head> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ac.parthenon2.jpg that's a bitmap, not a jpeg! <Hadal> Vicious]: then tell him to get a better picture of it. Something that isn't poorly scanned from a newspaper.

<Vicious]> Also, he objected to having the Parthenon first in the Athens article
<Vicious]> Look at Toronto, Paris, Tokyo, New York, Moscow, Sydney, etc
<Vicious]> The most recognizeable building is first in all of them
<Vicious]> So, should I go ahead and move the Parthenon pic up?
<Hadal> I would say so, at least until he gets an improved Omonia Square image.
<Vicious]> Ok

WhisperToMe 19:27, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

"Athinai" explanation

Anyway I think that the whole article is puzzling. In the infobox, the authors give details only of the Athinaion Municipality, and not the Athens Capital District (Lekanopedion Athinas) with 54 municipalities and communities, all of which consist the capital of Greece, Athina or Athens. But in the pictures there are even places from Marousi, another municipality of the capital district. Anyway, there is no a single governent for the Capital District but the most near governmental entity is Athens Prefecture (Nomarchia Athinon), nor Athinaion Municipality, nor the Attica prefecture.

I think that it should be explained on the header that Athinai is plural for Athina, but it can be done in a more "compact" way.

In Ancient Greek Athens was called Athinai (Αθήναι, plural for Athena),

As for the relevance, it helps us understand the "difference" between "Athina" and "Athinai". I would have asked, "What is Athinai? Is it some weird alternate spelling of Athina?" - Now that I know, I think it should be in there. No, this isn't an article about Greek etymology, but that specific piece of info is needed for people to "get" why Athina and Athinai are different. WhisperToMe 03:50, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

I agree. You should leave the explaination what Athinai means in the top of the article. Else there can be the misconception that these are two different names of the city. In reality it is just a habit greeks had, to give big cities (polis) the name in plural as they were a collection of smaller ones. Athens for example was a city consisting of 10 borroughs (dimoi). Of course nowadays central Athens is viewed as one city and is called accordingly Athina using the singular form...

The ancient name of Athens, in Greek, was Ἀθήναι [pronounced: Athíne, not Athenai or Atheenai (Erasmian pronunciation)]. This name is the plural form of the goddess-protector’s name of the city, Athena [Ancient Greek: Ἀθηνά (Athiná)]. The city’s name changed in Αθήνα (pronounced: Athína) during the 70s, when Καθαρεύουσα [pronounced: Katharévusa (pure language)] was replaced by Δημοτική [pronounced: Dhimotikí (popular language)]. The term Athenian, in Ancient and Modern Greek, is Αθηναί-ος/-α [pronounced: Athinéos (Athenian man) / Athinéa (Athenian woman)]. The plural form of Athenian (Athenians) is Αθηναίοι (pronounced: Athinéi). These prove the relation between Ancient and Modern Greek.

Skyscrapers?

Are there any skyscrapers in Athens? --Dara 13:22, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

No.The area has a pretty high earthquake risk, and the makeup of its terrain makes it hard for large scale construction work( without very high costs).--Jsone 17:38, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I think the first skyscraper was built around '70s. It's called Athens' Tower (Πύργος των Αθηνών) and it's located at Ampelokipoi. +MATIA ☎ 18:48, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Here's a list from google search results. +MATIA ☎ 18:51, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I can't read Greek, but I guess I can Google search for their images in Greek. :) --Dara 11:50, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

You can visit http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/bu/sk/li/?id=100623&bt=2&ht=2&sro=1

there's a list of the 47 current skyscrapers in Athens. Also there are talks about the building of a La Defense like or Canary Wharf like area in the neighborhood of Maroussi close to the Olympic Games site.

As for the quakes keeping Athens out of skyscrapers is a false information, since having that on mind cities like Mexico, Los Angeles, San Francisco or Santiago de Chile would never have had any highrise. In Mexico you have to add a volcano (Popocatepetl)

For skyscrapers and tall buildings in Athens read this: ATHENS SKYSCRAPERS AND HIGHRISES: A CHRONICLE - The DEFINITIVE Tread !!! --Guru7 16:03, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Hello! There was an interesting article on Kathimerini newspaper claiming that no tall buildings are allowed in a very large buffer area around acropolis hill. --Vassilis stath 09:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

You are right Vassilis. The acropolis is thought to remain the highest point in Athens so that this landmark doesn't get marginilized by newer "culturally less important" buidlings.

Infobox!

Hi all, I think this entry urgently needs a city infobox to comply with common wikipedia standards for city entries!

As for Skyscrapers, there is the "Athens Tower" and the "Pireaus tower", the former of which was the tallest building in the Balkans at the time of completion (1971). The latter is said to be on hold due to structural stability problems. All in all though, these two buildings hardly constitute skyscrapers worth mention by any global standards. --alx_bio 11:41, 23 August 2005

In any case, despite whatever beautiful sights the city offers at street level or the nice views of the mountains surrounding the city (making up what is known as the "Attika plain"), the lack of a world-class highrise skyline even on location away from the historic center is nowadays notable and does not add to the city's image and future aspirations as a regional metropolital and financial center, in contrast to other neighbouring cities in the region like Istanbul or Belgrade. (UTC)

Population has to be 5 million

If the official population numbers are 3.9 million, that leaves around 7 million people in the rest of Greece. Let us say 1 million in Thessaloniki. Now we have 6 million left. Where are they all living? Certainly not on the islands. Thrace is near empty. Macedonia is underpopulated. Epirus is for lovers of solitude. Peloponnese delights with its vast empty landscapes and Thessalia is a kambos. Finally, Larissa, Edessa, Patra, Heraklion, Volos do not number more than one million between them. Things make sense when you attribute to Athens a great, big, fat taliron: 5 million.Politis 18:31, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

The figures here are grosely inaccurate (as we know Athens really HAS to be atleast 5.5 Million people) but census in Greece simply cant be accurate because Athenians move back to thier home villages to be counted inorder to obtain better funding by the government.

In short, they are luckily trying new methods to count the population but Athens is certainly a hell of alot bigger than this. (Giorgos 03:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC))

The urban population of 2.6 millions which is refered is not the population of the agglomeration of Athens which includes the greater area of Piraeus. The population of the urban area is 3.130.841. The 3.7-million thing is the population of Attica (metropolitan area), not Athens Sthenel 18:06, 3 January 2007

'City Info?

What's the city's info? I mean like where is the Palace (if one available), and what's the Athenian army like, etc.

• • eeeeeeeeeep! Druworos 15:35, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

polikatikies

Athens is dominated by concrete modernist appartment blocks - all virtually identicle - called polikatikies (plural for polykatikia, aka multi-appartment building in Greek.) They are everywhere and are the undenyable image of the city and should be atleast mentioned (the Greek word)as that is what most of Athens consists of. Besides this it is also obvious that more then 4 million people live there.

Replaced Pano

I replaced the panorama taken from Lykkabetus hill with one from the exact same angle but less choppy. Looks much better.

Please replace photos in toolbox

Please put a photo of acropolis (larger than the previous,aphoto of the area and the city's seal.Thank you.

Economy section

There should be an economy section for the article that describes what type of buisness takes place in Athens.

I agree. Athens needs this section, including major economic sectors and important companies (Energon 16:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC))

terrible transport system

The phrase "The Athens Mass Transit System is currently one of the most modern and efficient systems in Europe" is totaly unjustified. Anyone who lives in Athens could assure you the contrary: athens transport system is inadequate, if not terrible. There are many improvements within the last 5 years, but it's still far from being "one of the most modern and efficient systems in Europe".

I am afraid I have been going every year of my life to Athens for 20 years and the statement you have just made is totally fabricated. Greece has EASILY one of the most modern transport systems in the world and the Athenians do know it. The trams, trains and buses are totally adequate and it has NEVER at anystage been inadequate since the Olympics. If you knew anything the problem has simply been convincing Athenians to leave their cars at home and trust the underground and trams which now they are begining to use in droves. Not only is the system one of the most efficient and modern in Europe, it is also easily one of the cleanest. If it is hard for you to come to terms with, I am sorry, but Greece does have one of the best transport systems in the world, to say 'terrible' shows you know absolutely nothing. Reaper7 08:36, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Four links i found in 1 minute on google:

http://www.hoteltravel.com/greece/athens/guides/transport.htm

http://www.ivebeenthere.co.uk/places/greece/athens/tips/transport

http://www.tbteurope.com/city.asp?CityID=598

http://www.elke.gr/newsletter/newsletter.asp?nid=217&id=260&lang=1

http://www.cityofathens.gr/portal/site/AthensPortalEN/menuitem.b45c8f7eebda0c8bc6e061462d4a76e3/?vgnextoid=f07b7baa8cc68010VgnVCM100000d2a4673eRCRD

Yes Athens is infact one of the most modern and clean transportation networks in Europe, and thats in no way an overstatment. I totally agree with Reaper

---

Seems to me that many Athenians confuse the quality of the transportation system, and actualy managing to get to their destination in time and with no hassle.

The subway system is in my opinion spotless, but the buses and trolleys, however well planned, suffer from the severe congestion of the Athenean streets. The transportation system is well planned, but it won't work beacuse the city isn't.

Flashback: In 1821 Athens was a small town of about 16.000 inhabitants. The city evolved through the last 180 years to its current official 3.9 million by expanding to connect more settlements in Attica. As far as I know the state didn't regulate the development in any way (Plans for the city by Kleanthes and Schaubert first drawn in 1832 were revised again and again over the years, then scrapped). Roads were built more or less randomly, as the needs arose.

However it happened, Athens is a city with very dysfunctional street planning, that can't support the millions of cars travelling the city any given day.

There is also a pronounced lack of parking space in central Athens. Or rather, a lack of parking space off the streets, where it doesn't affect traffic. Most streets in Athens are one way and are wide enough for two or three cars, but people park on one or both sides, following the unwritten rule that there must be enough space left for one car to get through. Buses don't fare well there.

In most avenues there are seperate bus lanes, that are supposed to make buses bypass the congestion. Sadly meaningful policing in Greece is lacking, so most often they are full of cars, either trying to go faster, or just parked illegally.

Add to that 60000 taxis (or so I hear), many people who are loathe to stop using way too many cars in favor of buses or the subway but still break any and every driving rule in the book, and the result is chaos however well planned and financed your road transportation is.

Sory for the verbosity, I'm no good at being concise. I'm also no authority on this subject, so this is just a personal evaluation that can be partially or completely wrong. pathanb 05:05, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Its sad that you had to speak without understanding the system. Firstly you have to understand the first fact, no matter how hard to swallow. Athens public transit system is one of the best in Europe easily. The trains and underground run on time. The trams - on time. the buses on time. Does the traffic affect the trams for example? I have rode them over 200 times - perhaps15 times a car making a left or right has made the tram have to stop - the tram hoots, the car moves -over. The only thing besides this that stops a tram? Traffic lights - they are that efficient. Buses on the whole run extrememly well. You are never stuck on them for long periods as say a London bus in England. They are frequent and stick to schedule. Traffic in Athens is and always has been a problem, however it does not effect the transport system as you say. I think the important thing to come to terms with, like some of the other members is simple. I know it is hard to see a little country like Greece have a better, faster and cleaner transport system than say large cities like Rome or London, but it is just the reality, deal with it. Yes Athens is a nightmare to park centrally in. Yes, the city is lacking parks. But in reality, more people chose the public transit system every day. And soon Athens will have the largest public park in Europe. Sorry if this reply dissappoints your image of Athens as a confused and ineffecient city. But try going there and using the transit system, rather than reading out of date web pages. Reaper7 08:26, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

---

Actually mate, I was born in Athens, and I've lived most of my life here. As I said, I'm no expert, so that's just an opinion. Still, I like my city despite its faults, not because it is perfect. Anyway, I'm not a pompous American snubbing a small country, filled by his own self-importance (or whatever you imagined). I just tried to share my experience as a pedestrian and constant user of mass transit in the city we are talking about.

Talking about experience, the A5 bus from Larissis Railway Station can fluctuate from 50 mins to 1.5 hour depending on the traffic. Do you suppose that it's on time either way? ;)

I still use buses and trolleys all the time, as do a whole lot of people, despite the fact that they *are* often late, which goes to show that they aren't *that* late.

Yes, the underground runs on time, I never said the contrary. It is also dirt cheap, like all public transportation in Athens. :)

I'm not really sure where the park fit in the conversation, but I presume that you are talking about the convesion of the former Elliniko airport to a park. I really hope this happens, both because I have vested financial interests in the area and because, well... I like parks. Sadly, as property values there have skyrocketed in the last 4 years, there has been much talk lately of selling off most of it for private commercial use, and converting just a smaller part of it to a park, if any. :(

I agree with the saying "Παίνεψε το σπίτι σου γιατί θα πέσει να σε πλακώσει" (Speak well of your house, or it will fall to crush you), and I've done my share of brochure type presentations to non-greeks, but if we do that in Wikipedia, I think we are missing the whole point by a mile. Then again, if you aren't Greek, I really don't get the point you are trying to make.

Are we supposed not to use emotes in wikipedia conversations? I haven't seen any. pathanb 14:28, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

---

Hi again, i'm the one that made the first post in this section. Well, Reaper7, maybe you have visited athens 20 times or so, but i'm an athenian and i use this "modern and efficient" transport system every single day so i know what i'm talking about. The transport system in Athens is slow (except for the metro, of course)and always extremely packed in rush hours. I agree with you that is clean and cheap, and also that it has improved a lot in the recent years, especially after 2000, when the metro started.

Anyway, the mass transit system section of the article has a few more innacuracies:

1. "The Athens Metro is one of the most impressive underground Mass Transit systems in the world. It currently operates four lines..." It's only three lines, two new and one old See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens_Mass_Transit_System or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens_Metro The proastiakos (subarban) line is a different thing.

2. "(the largest fleet of natural gas run buses in Europe)" citation?

3. "it is even considered normal to flag a taxi even when another customer is already in (although, formally, this is forbidden)" well, it's not forbidden anymore for the last 10-15 years or so.

---

It is forbidden but everyone does it =/= it is not forbidden --5telios 12:08, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

History of the name of Athens

The article mentions that "In the 19th century, this name was formally re-adopted as the city's name." What was the city called before readoption of the ancient name? --5telios 12:00, 21 July 2006 (UTC) --I Assumed it was refering to the name Athinai which was its ancient name I think (or Athena). Giorgos 17:56, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Land area

Where did you found that the metropolitan area of Athens covers 427 km²? They sound a few. Something like 4,270 km² is the true number maybe?

---

In a second thought 4,270 sound many. I calculate Athens' area between 2,000 and 3,000.

Indeed where did you find that the agglomeration of Athens covers 427 km²? If you calculate the area of each municipality, it's about 412 km². By the way Attica covers 3,808 km² so how could Athens cover 4,000 or 3,000 km²?

So, where did you find the area for the different municipalities? The only ones I know for a fact are the area of Athens (the CITY!), and the area of Attica from the www.gtp.gr. And could you please sign your posts, is it that hard! El Greco 15:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

You can find the area of each municipality in www.ypes.gr Sthenel 17:53, 3 January 2007

I'm assuming you speak Greek, cause this is the only land area information I found, http://www.ypes.gr/periferiakh.htm & http://www.ypes.gr/attiki_fisiog.htm both give me: Attica 3808km2 and Athens 427 km2. Otherwise, I can't find anything else. El Greco 16:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Then it's ok with the area of Athens since it's refered to be 427 km2 although I doubt if it's accurate. http://www.ypes.gr/topiki.htm here are the area and the population of each municipality by prefecture. I've added the area of them and it's 412km. But you are wrong about the population of 2.664 millions. It doesn't include Piraeus which belongs in the urban Athens area.Sthenel 17:08, 3 January 2007

How much of the Pireas Prefecture are we going to include? All 541,504 or part of it? The way I figured it, Athens (745514) would be the city pop, the Athens Prefecture (2664776) would be the Urban Pop, and the Attica Periphery (3761810) would be the metro Pop. And for the area which you calculated to be 412 km2, maybe you are missing a city or something? Maybe they are including water in the area calculation? El Greco 01:40, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

According to me: the city (Municipality of Athens) 39 km2 and 745,514 pop, urban area (55 municipalities, 48 of Athens prefecture and 7 of Piraeus prefecture-Piraeus, Rentis, Drapetsona, Perama, Nikea, Korydallos, Keratsini) 412 km2 and 3,130,841 , metro area whole Attica (I don't know if we should include the islands and the part of Peloponnisos). Sthenel 11:58, 4 January 2007

Sounds resonable. For the Metro Pop, I think we should include Egina (13,552), Salamina (30,962 & 7,060 - Ambelakia which for some reason is listed seperate of Salamina), the portion of Attica on the main land (Megara, Loutsa, Elefsina, etc.), which is basically the East (403,918) and West (151,612) Attica Prefectures, Pireas and those 6 cities (466,065) and Athens (2,664,776) for a grand total of 3,737,945. For the Metro Area it should include Athens Prefecture, East and West Attica Prefecture, and the Pireas Prefecture (just including Pireas and the surrounding cities, Salamina island and Egina island). Basically the same cities we included in the Metro Pop. I don't have the areas at the moment, but I will check them so that we can come to a consensus. The overall area will be much less than the whole area of Attica (3808km2). El Greco 20:35, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that Metro Pop and Metro Area should include the same regions. This is something very difficult especially for Greeks who don't use these terms. We only use the city-center and the greater area. Even the urban area is difficult to be determined as it could include many municipalities which are out of Athens and Piraeus prefecture. But the urban area shouldn't be more complicated, including only the regions which officially belong to greater Athens (these 55 municipalities). But in the metro thing, I don't think that we should include any island or any region out of the mainland of Attica because they don't have any relationship with what we mean peripheral area of the capital. Sthenel 21:33, 4 January 2007

That's the one major disappointment I have about the Greeks definition of Metro. In the USA you can easily look up metro pop but, in Greece it's very difficult if not impossible to figure it out. That's why I just put in the numbers from the Hellas_in_Numbers.pdf from statistics.gr into the infobox. I still think we should include Salamina Island in the Metro Pop and Area. It's right there next to Athens. I can understand not including Egina since it's so far south. And for the area of Athens, I too get 412 km² but the only thing that comes to mind is they are maybe including the area of Pireas Harbor to get to 427 km2? So to conclude: City: 745,514 & 38.964 km² Urban no salamina: 3,130,841 & (411.717 + 50.417) 462.134 km2 or (427km2 - 477.417 km2) Metro including Salamina: 3,724,393 & 3,057.734 km2. El Greco 03:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

If we include Salamina it's like talking about Attica, not Athens, it's very close to Athens but it's an island and it's not connected to the city in terms of geography (as a peripheral region like Acharnes, Marathon, Lavrio etc which belong to the Metro area), it belongs to the adjacent zone of influence though but we should put whole Attica prefecture in this case.. So, my opinion is to put only the mainland of Attica in the metro area and pop. As for the urban, I don't really know how this 427 came up and I don't trust these calculations even from official statistics. Urban - 3,130,841 (2,664,776 + 466,065) and 411.717 km2 (361.300-Athens Pref + 50.417-Piraeus pref). Metro - whole Attica prefecture 3,808 km2 and 3,761,810 or Attica apart from the islands and regions of Peloponnisos (2929 km2 and 3,686,371 if I haven't overlooked anything). Sthenel 11:24, 5 January 2007

Okay, so we will use the Urban: 3,130,841 and 411.717 km2 and for Metro: 3,761,810 and 3,808 km2 - the whole Attica Prefecture. El Greco 16:35, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I added them to the article. I think that we should do this with other greek cities too and in the article of Piraeus. Sthenel

Sure, what needs to be done? El Greco 18:30, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

To put an infobox just like that of Athens article including the area and population of greater Piraeus (50,417 km2 and 466,065 respectively). It shouldn't be referred as urban as it belongs to the urban area of Athens. Just greater Piraeus. Sthenel 22:27, 6 January 2007

Use the Piraeus talk page now. El Greco 19:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Hills

The article mentions that Lykavittos is the tallest hill in Athens. It is not - Tourkovounia is the tallest hill - hence my edit. --5telios 12:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

This article reads a bit like Greek Tourism Authority's pamphlet

Means no offense, I lived in Athens for 4 years and loved the experience. But this entry, in my opinion, does read like what you would find on the tourism pamphlet--sounding like advertisement, or destination promotion or something. May be we can change the tone of the article a bit.

Totally agree, even I was born, raised and lived most of my life in Athens. This article needs serious editing. --   Avg    01:38, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Athenian democracy -- I scanned the article quickly, but the most significant contribution of Athens is the concept of democracy -- and democracy isn't featured prominently, if at all ...

Mayor

Mayor does not change until the first of January, no? --5telios 22:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

External Links

Just removed this link: titania hotel in the heart of Athens!!! http://www.titania.gr

Remember this is an encyclopedia not a travel guide! --DimTsi 15:04, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Olympics

Hey could we get some information about the downside of the Olympics? I have read in multiple other sources that it was very bad for the Athenian economy.

This article reads a bit like Greek Tourism Authority's pamphlet

Wild guess here - Greece's main industry is Tourism - Athens is the Capital Greece. Therefore maybe Athens is geared towards tourists and the city in many ways is built for them to a great extent. Just a wild guess. Reaper7 15:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The city per say wasn't built for tourists, but the way it evolved has lead to the tourist city feel somewhat. The Greek Government poured money into fixing the Ancient sites of the city (Acropolis, Temples, Agora) rather than the infrastructure of the city like Mass Transit. Tourism brings in more money than all those infrastructure projects. El Greco 16:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Too many photos

There are too many photos as compared to the text. This is creating lots of empty (white) spaces and making the page ugly overall.

Suggestions:

1. Add more text, if it is less.
2. Move some photographs to Photo Gallery
3. Reduce thumbnail size
4. Re-placement of Evzones photographs coming at the top is required. Giving an odd and ugly look to the page, with white space below it. Is it that important for the photograph to come at the top of the page?

Kshitijbansal 15:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Athens doesnt look like a very visually appealing city from these photographs...which are all over the place the place making the article look congested and unorganized. I think the pictures that make it in the body of the article should be relevant to whats being talked about in the text nearby, the rest can go into the gallery. Kudos to whoever put the seal of Athens in there but it's in the article again towards the bottom in the 'Municipality' section, i think the second one should be done away with. Check out the San Diego article..it has high resolution pictures that give the article color and isnt excessive. Clown57

I implemented most of those changes prior to reading this talk page. I think the article is coming along nicely as a result. - RoyBoy ⁸⁰⁰ 05:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Again, there are too many pictures! It looks disgusting. I am sorry but can people please get there act together here. --Giorgos 03:23, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

How does that look? ^{El Greco (talk · contribs)} 14:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

kekrops you were right about the circumflex.sorry ,it slipped.but I would have eventually noticed,so please don't get nasty :-)

Thanatos666 20:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

"nickname" in infobox

One thing I casually removed from the infobox, and which has now been restored, was the "nickname" entry. I find it silly. The very idea that cities have nicknames strikes me as slightly bizarre; even in the few cases where they genuinely do, it really hardly ever is central enough for inclusion in an infobox; and as for the phrases listed in this case ("cradle of democracy" and "City of Athena"), whatever they are, "nicknames" they are not. A nickname is something you use routinely in lieu of the real name, in casual speech. Now, when did any of you hear for the last time: "Hey Niko, what'cha gonna do this weekend?" - "well, guess we'll just go to the cradle of democracy, for bouzoukia and ouzo". Sounds slightly odd? That's because these expressions are descriptive phrases and/or conventional epithets, but not names, let alone nicknames. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, what about the City of Lights, the City of Brotherly Love, or the Big Apple? Do you not know which cities those are describing? Granted the Cradle (Birthplace) of Democracy is not as common as the City of Athena, but it's still a nickname. Athens is the City of Athena. Athens got its name from the Goddess Athena. Look at how Athens is pronounced in Greek - Athena. El Greco 22:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Read more closely. I didn't deny those phrases exist, and I didn't deny they are conventionally associated with Athens. I doubt that "nickname" fits what they are. "Philly" for "Philadelphia", that's a nickname. "City of Brotherly Love", well, it's an epithet - much more conventionally fixed than either of the two you give for Athens. Can you actually cite a few examples where these phrases for Athens are used, as names? I googled for "City of Athena", and the first few pages didn't show a single example. Lots of pages talking of entirely different places, lots of instances where somebody is just using "city of Athena" as an etymological explanation of what the name "Athens" supposedly means; some few instances where it's used as an epithet, in apposition to the real name. No nickname. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

"trolling"

Domitius in editing wrote

who has been trolling this article? please see the "origin of name" for prior versions and do not dismiss the mainstream transliteration scheme of modern Greek (used also by Britannica) as "Greeklish"

trolling? ok Domitie,if you say so,trolling,...
so for the ,edited-written by neohellenes, part of the english wikipedia, correcting errors and adding concrete data and information to the encyclopaedia is obviously wrong.
dystychos anamenomenon.
I won't bother anymore with you guys.
Simply ανεπίδεκτοι μαθήσεως .

Νεοέλληνες με γειά σας ,τα καινούργια σας τα στέκια ,χάρισμά σας!

Thanatos666 22:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

New infobox

What about this new infobox? Only the municipality's and metro area and population are included which means that we mention only the center of Athens and after that whole Attica. Where is the urban area and population of Athens which is the most important part and show the real size of the city? - Sthenel 17:35, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

As nobody cares about this, the "metropolitan population" now in the infobox represents the population of Attica while the "metropolitan area" is the Athens urban area, two different things in the same category, because of this ambiguous section of the box - Sthenel 13:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

New Edit

I think that the way I have edited this page, by removing many pictures from this unnecessarily long, ugly picture gallery and placing in the article itself makes it look much better. The way it was previously put was aesthetically poor. This is more or less how the articles of the rest of the major European cities resemble!

Why don't you sign your posts next time? You delete relavant pictures in the article for what? To spam the article with all the pictures from the gallery? If you don't have anything to contribute from text, stop contributing pictures, cause that is the last thing this article needs, is more pictures! El Greco 14:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I say we remove the gallery and also 50% of the pics on page. Greek articles are really bugging me at the moment because they look trashy. Athens is one of the worst Euro city articles on wikipedia. This is mainly because of all the photos...though its other things as well. Like El Greco said, the last thing we need is more pictures.

We need to get it straight and pick a handful of the best pictures that represent Athens and use them. I also don't like the infobox picture of the parthenon...but thats a different story. --Giorgos 13:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Added a template

I created and added a Landmarks in Athens template.

Tokyo and Athens

An IP editor added Tokyo and Athens to each other's lists of sister cities. Tokyo's official web site does not list Athens as a sister. If a reliable source establishes that Tokyo (not one of the municipalities within it) has a sister-city relation with Tokyo, the information, together with the reliable source, will be valuable additions to the articles. Fg2 11:14, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Mistake on the extreme Athenian temperatures.

I believe there is a mistake regarding the extreme temperature ever recorded in Athens metropolitan area.The highest temperature ever recorded is 48C in Tatoi and Eleusina according to the national weather service and it was recorded in July 1987 and July 1977.There is a link of the national weather service.Most people believe that the record was the temperature we had last week.IT IS A MISTAKE PLEASE CORRECT IT.

Largest city in the balkans and Olympiakos?

If Thens is the largest city in the balkans - so it should be stated. Secondly why is Olympiakos listed as a football club of Athens when it is belonging to the city of Piraeus like Ionikos and Ethnikos which are not listed either. Reaper7 18:31, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Location of Athens

Take a look at the red point showing the loc. of Athens in Greece, correct it