Jump to content

Talk:Kevin Barry: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous editNext edit →
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
No edit summary
No edit summary
Line 45: Line 45:


::Are you trying to imply <i>ip anon</i> that the irish people and government conspired to hide the age of a SERVING brit soldier so as to make Kevin Barry look like a hero because I dont understand the point you are trying to make. Also could you please sign your comments. [[User:BigDunc|BigDunc]] 14:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
::Are you trying to imply <i>ip anon</i> that the irish people and government conspired to hide the age of a SERVING brit soldier so as to make Kevin Barry look like a hero because I dont understand the point you are trying to make. Also could you please sign your comments. [[User:BigDunc|BigDunc]] 14:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
are you going to leave in the fact that one of the soldiers was fifteen. A professor of history from oxford says its true. If not you are just cowards with of course make you true republicans. From Dunnmanway to Kingsmill the truth will out. The harder you try to bury the truth the more certain it will out.
are you going to leave in the fact that one of the soldiers was fifteen. A professor of history from oxford says its true. If not you are just cowards which of course make you true republicans. From Dunmanway to Kingsmill the truth will out. The harder you try to bury the truth the more certain it will out.
==NPOV==
==NPOV==
The main problem is the lead paragraph.
The main problem is the lead paragraph.

Revision as of 21:25, 24 October 2007

WikiProject iconBiography Start‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
StartThis article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
"WP:IR" redirects here. For WikiProject International relations, see Wikipedia:WikiProject International relations. For image requests, see Wikipedia:Requested pictures. For Wikipedia ignore all rules (IAR) policy, see Wikipedia:Ignore all rules.
Irish Republicanism pages by quality
Quality
Total
Assessed 0
Total 0


Welcome to the Irish Republicanism WikiProject, a collaboration of editors dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of Irish republicanism, Irish nationalism, and related organizations, peoples, and other topics.

(For more information on WikiProjects, please see Wikipedia:WikiProject and the Guide to WikiProjects).

Goals

  • Improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to Irish Republicanism and Irish Nationalism.
  • Gather interested editors, and provide a central location to discuss matters pertaining to the above.

Scope

  • Topics related to Irish Republicanism and Irish Nationalism.

Guidelines

Open tasks

This 'To do' list- has it been updated since 2007? Basket Feudalist (talk) 16:14, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Armed Campaigns

Republican Wars

Others

Events

Armed Republican Groups

For an organized hierarchial chart, see Genealogy of the IRA

Irish Republicans

Note: There are many, many IRA Volunteers of varying memberships, and we cannot list them all here. We have many categories for that. Only particularly notable members should be listed here.

Early Volunteers; the Wars

Later IRA

Other

Participants

This user is a member of WikiProject Irish Republicanism.

Please feel free to add yourself here, and to indicate any areas of particular interest

  1. Paddytheceltic (talk · contribs) Protestant Nationalists, Militant oganisations, Political Organizations and others..
  2. Erin Go Bragh (talk · contribs) Militant Armed Irish Republican organizations. Gaelic.
  3. Kathryn NicDhàna (talk · contribs) I've been working on some of the articles about women in the Easter Rising.
  4. Pauric (talk · contribs) Too much to mention
  5. Derry Boi (talk · contribs) Interested in all areas of republicanism really.
  6. One Night In Hackney (talk · contribs) Bit of everything
  7. Irish Republican (talk · contribs) Irish Republicanism 1798-Present
  8. Vintagekits (talk · contribs) Irish Republicanism past and present with more focus on the history of the Provisionals
  9. Phoblacht (talk · contribs) Republican Newspapers from 1790’s to Present.
  10. GiollaUidir (talk · contribs) Republican activities from the 1969-mid 80's. Also, biogs of (primarily) dead activists both political and military. Post-1986 is mainly CIRA activity and shoot-to-kill operations by the SAS etc.
  11. Leopold III (talk · contribs) The leaders in the period from the Easter Rising to the end of the Civil War.
  12. Kevin Murray (talk · contribs) Learning more and helping where I can.
  13. Scolaire (talk · contribs) 20th century history, especially the 1913-1922 period
  14. Sheehan07 (talk · contribs) Love Irish History
  15. Sbfenian1916 (talk · contribs) Love Irish Republicansim, hate Unionism.
  16. United and Free (talk · contribs)- PIRA history and operations
  17. Fluffy999 (talk · contribs) Inter(world)war republican activities. Internment and extra judicial activities surrounding Irish Republicanism.
  18. Free Scotland, Unite Ireland (talk · contribs) Interested in post- St Andrews agreement Republicanism.
  19. Diarmaid (talk · contribs) Six county sovereignty
  20. Domer48 (talk · contribs) Period covered by the Irish Confederation (Young Ireland)
  21. Conghaileach (talk · contribs) Special interest in left-republican history
  22. Max rspct (talk · contribs) PIRA;INLA; civil war era; 70s 80s 90s; links/solidarity abroad;
  23. Carrignafoy (talk · contribs) War of Independence and Civil War (especially in Cork) also development of Official Sinn Féin and its successors.
  24. Brixton Busters (talk · contribs)
  25. BigDunc (talk · contribs)
  26. Ró2000 (talk • contribs) Tá suim mhór agam i stair náisiúnta na hÉireann, neamhspleach go háirithe!!
  27. quirk666 (talk · contribs) Republicanism 1798-present. 32 County Sovereignty Movement
  28. gavcos (talk · contribs) Old IRA, War of Independence, Civil War
  29. ElementalEternity (talk · contribs) 20:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)Irish history and republicanism in general.[reply]
  30. Biofoundationsoflanguage 15:12, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  31. Moz1916 (talk · contribs) All Irish history, especially 1903-1932
  32. Princess Pea Face (talk · contribs) Ireland pure and simple
  33. Barryob (talk · contribs)
  34. NIscroll (talk · contribs) --NIscroll (talk) 19:37, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  35. RSFRuairi (talk · contribs) Anything really.
  36. Gr8opinionater (talk · contribs) 1:10 July 27 2008 (GMT), Interested in Irish nationalism in general particularly from a Political and historical point of view.
  37. Lihaas (talk · contribs) open to much
  38. EoinBach (talk · contribs) Irish republicanism in general from an academic point of view
  39. Gerard Madden (talk · contribs)
  40. SPARTAN-J024 (talk · contribs) I have ties to the Easter Rising and the Irish War of Independence
  41. NewIreland2009 (talk) The 1912-1924 period, with a particular passion for challenging popular myths of the period.
  42. Dribblingscribe (talk) 20:21, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  43. Tippsno1fan (talk · contribs) Tá an-spéis agam ann
  44. Gallagher-Glass (talk · contribs) General interest.
  45. Fallduff (talk · contribs) National Archives, Dublin and Na Fianna Éireann, pre Northern Troubles
  46. Mabuska (talk · contribs) maintaining neutrality and verifiability
  47. Nicholas Urquhart (talk · contribs) military operations of the "New IRAs": the Provos, the Reals and even OnH, the Official and Continuity IRA.
  48. You Can Act Like A Man (talk · contribs) 32 CSM
  49. Finnegas (talk · contribs)
  50. Sittingonthefence (talk · contribs) Irish republicanism as a philosophy. 1916 and War of Independence combatants.
  51. High_Noonan (talk · contribs) Tom Hunter, 1916, War of Independence
  52. Antiqueight (talk · contribs) Women involved in 1916 or similar.
  53. AusLondonder (talk · contribs) General matters.
  54. Tdv123 (talk · contribs) PIRA, OIRA, INLA, IPLO, ICA, IVF, SE, CRF, SARAF, PLA
  55. Irishpolitical (talk · contribs) Traditionalist Republicanism and Nationalism. Dissenting republicans post GFA. Anti-communist Republicanism.
  56. CnocBride (talk · contribs) All Irish history, though my favourite time period would be the vast 1800–2011 period.
  57. KINGHB190 (talk · contribs) A Corkonian with ancestry in the original Irish Republican Army.
  58. Endersslay (talk · contribs) Enjoy Irish republican music and history.
  59. R0paire-wiki (talk · contribs) Irish Republicanism past and present, with particular focus on Socialist Republicanism.

Userbox

Feel free to place {{User WP:IR}} on your User page to advertise our WikiProject!

Articles

Featured content

Candidates

Good articles

Candidates

Articles in need of urgent attention

Please provide a short explanation, or leave a note on our talk page if needed.

  • John Sweetman. Article on 2nd President of SF needs more footnotes, and appears to have been compiled largely from reports in The Times of London, which is hardly a neutral source on an Irish Republican.

Suggestions for new articles

Articles in Preparation

New articles

Belfast Pogrom

1923 Irish Hunger Strikes

Richard Goss (Irish Republican)

Joseph Whitty

Thomas Harte (Irish republican)

Patrick McGrath (Irish republican)

Jack McNeela

Seamus Woods

Andy O'Sullivan (Irish Republican)

Please feel free to list your new Irish Republican Army-related articles here (newer articles at the top, please). Any new articles that have an interesting or unusual fact in them should be suggested for the Did you know? box on the Main Page.

Collaboration

The article listed here is our current official article to collaborate on. Propose new articles in the Nominations section below.

Nominations

James Larkin - Grosseteste (talk) 17:16, 23 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Review

Peer review
Assessment / Project's Assessment page

Assessment requests:

Language

Gaelic words and phrases should be marked up using {{lang}}, thus: {{lang|ga|Páirc na hÉireann}}.

Templates

To use the following template, simply put {{IRAs}} at the bottom of an article.

To use the following template, simply put {{NIPP}} at the bottom of an article.

Articles which fall within our scope should be labeled as such on their talk pages. To do so, simply place {{WP IR}} at the top of article's talk page.

WikiProject iconIrish republicanism Unassessed
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Irish republicanism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Irish republicanism and Irish nationalism related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Irish republicanismWikipedia:WikiProject Irish republicanismTemplate:WikiProject Irish republicanismIrish republicanism articles
???This article has not yet received a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Categories

Regular cats

Project organisation cats

Resources

Using references

  • For a simple guide to using references, place {{subst:refstart}} (including brackets) on your user or talk page.

Song

No source is cited here for the lyrics, but it appears to be the version I've known it for (scary thought) something now approaching half a century. But isn't it missing the chorus? At least that's how I've always known it:

Shoot me like an Irish soldier,
Do not hang me like a dog;
For I fought for Ireland's freedom
On that dark September morn,
All around that little bakery,
Where we fought them hand to hand.
Shoot me like an Irish soldier
For I fought to free Ireland.

- Jmabel | Talk 08:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lacking response, I'll add it. - Jmabel | Talk 05:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Shall my soul pass through Old Ireland" was written for Terence McSwiney Lord Mayor of Cork,who died on hunger strike in Brixton prison in October 1920 not Barry, although both songs were written to the same tune. 81.77.178.194 00:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The song was in Angela’s Ashes, wasn't it? Maybe worth mentioning, but possibly a bit too trivial. Stu ’Bout ye! 14:31, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Referencing

I have referenced all the text added. Prior to this there was no referencing at all. I will reference the ages of the soldiers later, or if other editors wish to do so thats fine. --Domer48 08:19, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have a number of references which have the soldiers ages ranging from 19-23. I also have one for 15. There is a lot more to be said in relation to this, so I'm not sure how to proceed? I have put some information onto this section, and removed the age for the time being until others have had a chance to discuss this. The importance of Basil Clarke should not be under estimated. I would quote the following paragraph: In the Irish Times (29 January 1992)there was an apology by Kevin Myers "for stating that Terence MacSwiney had planned to kill the Bishop of Cork. When Myers became aware that this allegation had been fabricated by Clarke, he apologised for not detecting “the insidious concoctions of the black propagandist…" Clearly the work of Basil Clarke in the years 1920-192 1 had the capacity not only to influence the events of that time but also to shape the historical narrative in our time." Clearly it is not a cut and dry issue, and I would welcome some feedback. --Domer48 20:13, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The fact that one of the soldiers was so young has been hidden for years by irish people from the government to republicians. I —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.135.172 (talk) 09:26, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Source: The anglo irish war, the troubles of 1913-1922 osprey publications. written by peter cottrell, edited by Proff. Robert O Neill. I suppose it wont be go enough for you anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.135.172 (talk) 14:17, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The fact remains no matter what age the british soldier was is that he joined the army and took up arms and went to another country as an occupying force and was killed on active service. It remained hidden because the British army have a history of ignoring the victims of the conflicts they are involved in just look at the Falklands veterans. --193.1.36.14 11:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is not a "fact" that the soldier (not soldiers) was so young. If it was a "fact" I would have no problem putting it in. Why did the army (British) say he was 19? Where they covering up his age? Provide the evidence you have, in the form of referenced sources. --Domer48 11:42, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have referenced all sections now. It is my intension to go through it all again using the only full-length biography of Kevin Barry written by Donal O'Donovan titled Kevin Barry and his Time. This will also mean adding additional information. All the newspapers used are available from both the National Libary of Ireland, and the Gilbert Libary Pearse Street, Dublin. --Domer48 12:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Are you trying to imply ip anon that the irish people and government conspired to hide the age of a SERVING brit soldier so as to make Kevin Barry look like a hero because I dont understand the point you are trying to make. Also could you please sign your comments. BigDunc 14:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

are you going to leave in the fact that one of the soldiers was fifteen. A professor of history from oxford says its true. If not you are just cowards which of course make you true republicans. From Dunmanway to Kingsmill the truth will out. The harder you try to bury the truth the more certain it will out.

NPOV

The main problem is the lead paragraph.

  • His execution was to further outrage public opinion in Ireland and throughout the world. His courage in refusing to inform on his comrades while under torture earned him a place in the nationalist pantheon, [3] [2] and was to become one of the most celebrated of Republican martyrs.

But I think the article in general is overly adulatory, which is why the NPOV tag is there. Stu ’Bout ye! 08:28, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article is referenced. If you like I can put some of the lead in direct quotes. --Domer48 11:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kevin Barry given a state funeral, in 2001, would you consider that overly adulatory? So if you could expand on the article in general is overly adulatory, I'll try address your concerns? --Domer48 12:12, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't realise these were direct quotes until you added the speech marks today, which obviously changes things. The two quotes should also be attributed, ie "x stated that this 'earned him a place in the nationalist pantheon'". This is important as the reader should know who made the statement, and lets them determine the source's bias, if any. Of course being given a state funeral isn't overly adulatory, that's not what I'm talking about. A lot of the article seems to be about what a nice guy he was. It's fine to state this, but when it takes up so much of the content it kinda gives undue weight to it. Particularly in the execution section. Do the sources state anything else about the British reaction? The end of the amush section gives some balance when it talks about the soldiers' ages, but I think it could do with some more. Basically, from my reading the article is written from almost an entirely Republican perspective at the minute. And I stress from my reading, as I'm known to be completely wrong at least once a day :) Stu ’Bout ye! 13:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the article mentions "the English" and "the British". This should be English/British authorities/army/government etc, rather than just British. Stu ’Bout ye! 14:31, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If I can take your points one at a time. Re the quotation marks in the lead, as you will notice, the entire article is referenced. As to Barry being a nice lad, well from what I’ve read he was! I will try to get some newspaper articles which describe him as part of a “murder gang,” as Childers mentions in his article. As to being written from a Republican perspective, all I can think to say is, could you suggest some alternative perspectives? The alternation between English / British is again down to source. I would only add that the use of “English” were direct quotes. --Domer48 18:28, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kevin_Barry&oldid=166837525"