Talk:Eye color

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Posting Pictures of Your Own Eyes

Please do not post pictures with captions like "my green eye". It's really obnoxious, and it's totally unnecessary; Wikipedia has plenty of pictures of eyes already. This article doesn't need any more. - MaxW 20:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Eye color changes?

I have green eyes and my dad has green eyes, my mom has dark blue eyes and my sister has brown eyes. I've always wondered why whenever it is dark like in a room or outside my eyes appear to be solid brown, I don't have any shade of brown in my eye and I have bright green eyes. So, why is this?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.217.87.171 (talk • contribs) 02:07, 16 November 2006 (UTC).

Distinct patterns of colors?

I'm looking for an explanation of my eye pattern/color. The background color of my eyes is a grey brown and there is a distinictive webbing pattern on top of this that is yellow. I haven't really seen this webbing pattern on anybody else except my dad (who has blue eyes with a light blue webbing on top). It looks to me to be completely separate from the background of the eye. To me, it seems that in others the color transitions slowly or that there are color stripes or rings coming out from the pupil. In addition,it often appears that mixed or ambigous eyes colors often have distinictive patterns. Obviously, I don't really know much about this except for personal observation, which is sketchy at best, so any other research supported information would be helpful.I couldn't find any simple explanations on the iris page; although, I think one of the discussions may have been related.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.173.88.77 (talk • contribs) 18:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC).

maybe you have some kind of sectoral Heterochromia. that might be what you are talking about. my grandmother had eyes that had this. they had very jagged and splotchy different colors. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.177.203.87 (talk) 23:27, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

radial eye color

i saw in the hazel section about people whose inner iris was brown and outer iris green, but what about the inner iris being green and the outside being blue. i know someone like this, but what would you call that color? has anyone else heard of this?

For a lot of "mixed" colours, you would simply call it the dominating colour (usually the outside one). London Steam 16:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Blue eye color doesn't change?

"Eye color usually stabilizes when an infant is around 6 months old." - This I have seen in almost all infants, most infants I have observed are born with blue eyes, most of these have later shifted into either green or brown (depending on the eye color of the parents (hooray for captain obvious)). Although further down in this article I found this statement: "As melanin production generally increases during the first few years of life, the blue eyes of some babies may darken as they get older. But never turn to a different color." - I was born with blue eyes, and so were all of my tree sisters (same parents, mother green-eyed and father blue-eyed). Me and my sisters all have green eyes... Lazersnus 09:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm kind of questioning that statement too. My older sister and parents all have the same dark brown eyes. I was born with really dark brown eyes, now they're greenish-brownish. I consider them to be hazel. My mom claims me and my sis are 12% European -- Italian or Portuguese -- so maybe that's why, but the statement should be removed or sourced? ― Sturr ★彡 ^Refill/lol 00:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

It does exist. Some people are born with blue eyes and they later turn green or brown, I have seen it, keep the statement.

i have seen this too. however i doubt that it occurs in "almost all infants" i know i had brown eyes from birth, and looking at pictures of family members as babies, they all had static eye color.

Faris b 07:41, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

• 12% European. and the remaining 88%?! I had blue eyes until very late age, say 10 yrs old (then people said I had blue eyes, at least), now they are green, the colour can "change" due to light or cloth that I wear to lecture green (my favourite), military green, green, occasionally (rarely) they may seem grey or blue. My mother also said that I was born with very dark eyes (I never believed in her), but what sturr said made me remember that. I'm Portuguese (North) with 25% Brazilian (of Southern Europe descent, mostly Portuguese). my brothers all have different eye colours: Green, Brown and Blue. My Mom's eyes are brown, father's blue - all same parents. Those people with Aniridia seem to have alien eyes. That's cool :P. "-I'm alien!" "no, you're not!" and the guy takes off his glasses, and freaks out the other one. lol. --Pedro 21:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm 88% Chinese, 12% European. ― Sturr ★彡 ^Refill/lol 05:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Might she mean 12.5% European? As in an 8th? That would suggest one great-grandparent was european. If it is really 12%, I would wonder how on earth she could know that... Skittle 14:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

It is 12.5% -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Eurasian_%28mixed_ancestry%29#Um ― Sturr ★彡 ^Refill/lol 20:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps the reason for all this confusion is that blue and green eye colours can often appear very similar London Steam 16:19, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Eye color changes depending on the mood/feeling of the person?

A couple days ago, in one of my classes we were talking about how some people's eye color changes if they are in a different mood or something like that. in example somebody said that her brother had brownish eyes, but when he got mad they went really dark. What would be causing this phenonmena? --Ampersand2006 ^{( & )} 23:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Could be the effect of increased blood flow to the face? Or perhaps simply a change in facial expression occluding light to the eyes? Extar 03:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

See the discussion below. It is postulated that hormones that are released in times of stress mimic melanogenic hormones, thereby altering eye colour. It would make sense, in this scenario, that they eyes got darker as they became more stressed, as melanocortins promote the production of dark, eumelanin. Rockpocket 03:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

My own eye colour seems to change between dark blue,light blue and mid gray with how i feel and also the time of year,Im in Australia and in the summer time my eyes go very bright blue in the winter they go darker.

Ive used a mirror at night to check this out and it amazes me,also i think drugs, in particuliar mood altering drugs also play a park in the pigment changing of eye colour —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.84.65.86 (talk) 15:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

Vandalism

I think the page still needs a litle fixing I removed the sentence "Tony Blair is gay" at the very beggining of the article,(of all the ways to spoof or insult a politician this one is rather lame) El Gostro 15:57, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Change in Eye-Colour by Substance

I have hazel green eyes, normally with little light, you can’t see much of my color, looks hazel, but more brown color is visible than green. With sunlight, you can see more green color in my eye. I use marijuana from time to time and I notice that it changes my eye color from normal (inside a room-normal lighting); to really green/hazel rich color (as if it was receiving natural sunlight). Is there a link (proof) to this? I suppose I’m not the first one to experience this. Joey 08:34, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I guess the obvious question is, who is observing the change in your eye colour after using marijuana? If it is you, yourself then you should consider the possibility that your preception of your eye colour has changed, rather than your eye colour itself. If an independent (and not high) observer is reporting the change, then it is indeed an interesting finding.

This is not direct evidence, but I do wonder if there is a link. Some treatments for glaucoma, such as prostaglandin analogs, are known to change eye colour in maybe 10% of patients. These combat glaucoma by increasing drainage of intraocular fluid, thereby lowering pressure. Its thought that prostaglandin acts on eye colour by mimicing a natural hormone that mediates melanin production. Here is the interesting part: people have reported that when they are ill or under stress that their eye color becomes darker or lighter. A modified version of the pigmentary hormones are also produced during stress (and when you stress fish and frogs, they change colour for this very reason). So, since marijuana clearly has a stress relieving effect, one could image that it effects the very hormones that control melanin production (and stress) and thereby change eye colour.

Interestingly, marijuana has also been used as a drug to lower intraocular pressure in people with glaucoma. Quite how it works is unknown however and I have never heard of eye colour changes being talked about as a side effect of its use. Hope this helps. Rockpocket 10:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

case in point - I went out last night with friends and got overly inebriated, as in completely trashed. I went down to the shop today and everyone could see my eye color change from across the room. For some reason, they are a blazing green. Looks like colored lenses. They were blue-grey as a child, hazel as an adolescent, routinely changed between light brown to blue in my early 20's, and now are a faded blue/brown. Except for today. Lightertack 07:22, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Black Eyes

Would a photo of a very dark brown/black eye serve any purpose? It can be easily obtained. Roman Levin 09:25, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Black Eyes

Yeah, there is not much mention of black eyes. That's why I checked on here originally. I never knew there was a such as thing as back eye colour, always thought it was a dark brown, and we couldn't see it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.55.13.128 (talk) 15:54, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Black and Brown eyes both have the same cause - the only difference is that Black eyes are much more heavily pigmented, so both really are technically the same type. No doubt there are big pigmentation and retinal pattern differences between different Black Eyes too - to show differences would no doubt require retinal scans, because obviously differences would not be visible to the human eye. Some people on my father's side of the family have Black Eyes.--Lord of the Isles 20:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Definition of light eye color and number switching

I've noticed that a people seem to keep changing a few parts (especially whether hazel counts as "light" or not and percentages of people with blue eyes) back and forth. I have no knowledge which versions are correct, but none of the edits have anything to stand on either. Does anyone have references they can site for the information they're adding/removing so it's not a constant state of counter-productive edit wars? -Bbik 21:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Hazel

In the section of Hazel eyes, when it says hazel eyes are common among Middle Eastern people and Southern and Southeastern Europe, is it speaking of hazel as in light brown eyes? Or Hazel as being blue or green with brown near the pupil? -Regn

I think that needs to be clarified as well.

by Wild Mountain Thyme 06:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Green eyes are dominant over blue eyes

Genetically, green eyes are dominant over blue eyes, the article is wrong saying that green eye color are the rarest, the most rare eye color is blue.Lithop 06:20, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

If I remember it correctly eye colour is determed by a group of three genes extising in at least seven versions (coding for green, blue, blue-grey, grey, light brown/hazel, dark brown and black eyes). If at lest two out of three genes code for the same colour that determins the person's eye colour. If the three genes all code for diffrent colours it ususly becomes the darkest one since genes coding for darker colour tend to be dominant over genes coding for lighter ones. However, it is possible that the gene coding for green eyes is dominant over other eye colour genes.

Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

How can blue be the rarest? I live in an area with a representative population of various ethnic groups. I see far more blue-eyed people than green-eyed people. I know a handful of green-eyed people and many many blue eyed people. This is not even counting the large amount of people of African heritage. I looked at 50 randomly picked men from the National Sex Offender Registry and found that of the 35 Caucasians I happened to view, 15 had blue eyes and 20 had brown eyes. Considering the source, can't anyone realize that blue is more common?

Coher Obeid, Jordan.

It is true green eye genes are dominant over blue eye genes, but this has nothing to do with the existing proportion of people having these eye colors, the most influential factor is environmental conditions. More or less than 90% of Finns have blue eyes, if it was for gene dominance, this would have not been true. Take into consideration too, that the greatest proportion of green eyed people exists in Hungary (20%), compared to many European countries with more than 50% of the population having blue eyes. Green eyes are the rarest in almost every study on eye color

I´m from Mexico, in Latin America most of the population is mixed race, between Native Americans, africans and Europeans, the most common eye color is of course brown, but several people have light eye color, and the second most common is green, and very few people have blue eyes. Mines are green, aren´t there any studies for Latin American population??

Sorry, but 90% of the Finns having blue eyes is not credible considering human genetics. Ethnic groups are not as genetically isolated as even scientists thought just 30 – 40 years ago. Instead ethnic groups are almost always strongly mixed with their neighbours. The rare exceptions from the rule are very affected by hereditary diseases. Finns are not one of those more genetically isolated groups. The population of Finland is divided into three main ethnic groups: the Finish-spoken majority, a Swedish minority in the south and west, and a Sami minority in the north. Even if people usually marries within their ethnical group that would not make much of a difference. According to Steven Pinker one “crossbreeding” each generation is enough to make two human populations genetically similar. Consequently, human populations rarely become as physically homogenous as some people like to think.

 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Hej Lena.

Why not? Of the Finland´s population of 5.290.000 only 300.000 are of Swedish origin and only 6.900 are ethnic Saame people. As far as I have travelled, because of my work (when I was still in active working life) for more than 20 years all around the country I have noticed that the blue eye color is really dominating in Finland. Nine people out of ten have blue eyes and the rest have mixture of other colours.Regarding the ethnic Saame people most of them have either dark brown of black eye color. The last one being described as "sticking look " from their black eyes by most of the other ethnic groups. I have grey green eyes , green more dominating than grey. My first wife had (and surely still does) light green eyes which changed to grey black when she become nervous, were rare colour indeed. My second wife has so deep green eyes than in many places where we have been visited during our holidays many local people are impressed of, specially her eye color and also in lesser means of my eyes, saying they have ever seen such eyes before. I have also noticed when people get angry or are showing their hate their eye color changes. ("Eyes are the mirror of soul" says old Finnish proverb.) Blue, grey, and green color is predominant eye color among the Finno Ugrian peoples and this correlates quite well with so called N3 haploid in their Y-chromosome DNA results. With this no wonder that the original birth place of Finno Ugrians seems to be Middle Asia rather than European when compared with blue and green eyes still found in Iran and Northern Pakistan Hindukush area. Also many Jews of Eastern European origin have the same colors in their eyes. I am a Finn who have traced my Finnish roots back to early 1400 century.

JN

I suspect that you to suffer from confirmation bias. Blue eyes might be most common among ethnical Finns and black among the Sami minority. Yet 90% blue eyed seems incredible considering human genetics. In each ethnic group there is every fifth person does not mach the supposed “race”, which in a genetical sense does not exist. As I previously wrote one “crossbreeding” each generation is enough to make two populations genetically similar within a few centuries. That is most likely the case with the three ethnic groups of Finland.

2007-08-11 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

I am now attending a course in biology (equivalent of grade ten to twelve if you start school at the age of seven). I have learned that brown and green eyes are due to dominant genes while blue and grey eyes are due to recessive ones. To make along story short that means the genes for brown and green eyes can prevent the genes for blue and grey ones to be expressed. People with one gene for brown and one for blue or grey eyes will always have brown ones. Similarly, people with one gene for green and one for one for blue or grey eyes always have green ones. If you have one gene for blue and one for grey eyes your eyes will be blue-grey. If you have one gene for brown and one for green eyes you will have an eye colour in between. There are also people with violet eyes but I don’t know what this trait is due to. It might be hereditary like the other eye colours, but in such a case I don’t know how it is inherited. Anyway it is a very rare trait which is probably why it was not mentioned in the course except by me. Please note that the frequency of genes varies widely between human populations. However, it does not vary very much between neighbouring populations. As I mentioned before one interbreeding each generation is enough for making human populations genetically similar within a few centuries. Also, they are not as genetically isolated as some people (mainly racists) like to think.

2007-12-08 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.19.152 (talk) 20:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Blue eye pictures?

The current picture of a blue eye is kind of blah and not very highly pigmented. I mean, I'm sure it looks nice as part of someone's face, but I don't think it should be the archetypal example of a blue eye. Could we get a picture of someone whose eyes are more Paul Newman blue? I don't mean of Paul Newman's eyes, just that kind of piercing strong blue.

The only difficulty I can see with this is that it's hard to take pictures of people with blue eyes -- they tend to get incredibly strong red eye, I assume because they have less pigment to get in the way of light bouncing back. BTW, should that be mentioned in the article? 207.237.193.23 02:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Melanesians, Berbers, etc.

See Talk:White people#Berbers: a popular counter-example which is not listed Tazmaniacs

Sharbat Gula paragraph/picture

The distinctive green eyes of Sharbat Gula.

One of the most famous photographs ever published by National Geographic was a close-up of Sharbat Gula, a Pashtun girl with startling green eyes, taken in western Afghanistan by Steve McCurry in 1984. Details of her irises captured by the photograph were used to confirm her identity after she was relocated in 2002.

This part of the Green section, in all its variations, keeps getting deleted and added back in. Should it be included or not? As I see it, yes outweighs no:

Yes: It adds the little tidbit that irises can be used like fingerprints, at least in some cases. Besides, if we can use pictures of anyone else's eyes, why not hers? Perhaps a crop of just her eyes would be more appropriate, but I don't know if that would break copyright rules or not.

No: While a (very minimal, but related) discussion of a specific person is slightly off-topic in an article about eye color, there are specific mentions of other people later in the article. Or perhaps those mentions should be removed as well?

What other reasons and opinions are there? -Bbik 00:03, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

To me, it makes a lot of sense to include this in the article. It may be a reference to a specific person, but it only shows a real-life situation where eye colour has had a major impact. The striking eyes made that picture iconic, and that piercing gaze has come to represent the pleading yet accusatory cry of all refugees. Those eyes express the nature of a life that is inexplicably different from that of most National Geographic readers while also mocking us for being so ignorant to the plight of others. For that reason, I believe the full photograph and explanation should be included.--70.55.66.131 05:18, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Violet eyes?

Are there really people with violet eyes? I have never seen any that can’t be explained by coloured contact lenses.

 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.233.151.160 (talk) 11:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

Isn't Elizabeth Taylor famous for her violet eyes? 72.14.125.25 20:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that on all photos where I can see her eye colour she is disguised as someone she acts! In other words it can be explained by coloured contact lenses.

Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Dose anyone have true violet eyes besides me?

Yes! this little boy from Tamil Nadu his eyes are amazing!: http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4338/tamilnadumahabalipuram5zc.jpg

His eyes seems to be just bright blue, there are almost no red tint in their colour to consider it purple. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.249.160.9 (talk) 08:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

There should be a picture of a person with purple eyes on the page. --76.16.151.77 23:38, 1 July 2007 (UTC)Kino Lala

Apparently, there is people with violet eyes. They are just so rare that I can’t remember ever meeting one. What do you bean with “purple” eyes? Albinos has red eyes but that is the closest I can come up with.

2007-12-08 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.19.152 (talk) 20:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Too Many Hazel Eye Pictures?

I think there are a few too many photos of hazel eyes, are three really necessary? (Nick4gwen 17:50, 14 April 2007 (UTC))

Black Eyes, where are you

What happened to black-coloured eyes ? I have black eyes, its very common..122.162.66.56 10:13, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Mine are nearly black, too. It'll be nice to see a photo of (nearly) black-coloured eyes here :) Alicenoemi 11:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Simple Correction Needed

I believe a correction is needed in the section titled, "Classification of Colours." It lists blue as the rarest iris colour, rather than (the correct colour) green. http://www.answers.com/topic/eye-color 82.152.61.185 19:18, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

GoldenEye

I've seen 'golden' eyes before, perhaps they should be listed under the brown section. They are definitely distinct from your standard brown though. Vranak

Those are referenced as "whiskey eyes" under the brown section. I added the word "golden" to it.

by Wild Mountain Thyme 07:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

They're also known as "amber".

We desperately need new photos for the hazel and amber sections....

First of all, the hazel eye photo (pictured left) alarms me when I scroll down the page! It's just scary. (Not to mention it looks more light brown than hazel to me.) Also, the hazel & amber eyes are nearly indistinguishable from one another... The whole point is to provide clear examples of different eye colors. This section definitely needs an overhaul. by Wild Mountain Thyme 07:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I think that the pictures on the "amber" section are fine. They do display amber eyes quite nicely. I do agree that the one eye on the "hazel" section did not fit the description. It was indeed brown, not hazel. I have replaced it with an eye that had been previously on this page, but was later removed by this brown eye. This one displays hazel much more truthfully. Depending on the monitor of the computer, amber and hazel eyes should differ by amber being a solid color, while hazel ought to consist of multiple colors. Both colors are much lighter than regular brown. Some monitors are set too dark, though, and therefore all the eyes look brown, even though they are not. by Aarynne 11:15, 17 June 2007 (GMT)

UPDATE: The eye I had uploaded to the hazel section has been replaced by someone else's by now, so nevermind :-) by Aarynne 5:19, 20 June 2007 (GMT)

RED in an eye

is it possible. I believe my eyes are dark green on the outside and red in the center. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.238.65.172 (talk) 02:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

A few notes

Firstly, the section "determination of eye color" reads like a high school class presentation, probably should be edited to fit a more enyclopedic style. In "classification of colors", the following passage needs clearing up: "Blue eyes have a little yellow and little to no brown, making them appear blue. Gray eyes appear gray because they have a little yellow and no brown". Lastly, in the section on hazel eyes, the article states that hazel can refer to eyes that change color due to the color of the person's clothing, a phenomenon the article goes on to state in "eye color change" is impossible. I would fix these things myself, but I'm not really knowledgeable or qualified here, so I just wanted to point them out, Powrtoch 04:52, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The section on Gray Eyes contains a sentence fragment: "While in group OCA1B (the next less severe form) most have light blue eyes." I would change it by replacing "While . . ." with something like "By comparison . . . " except that I just joined and this page can't be edited by new members. --JoeIcarus 01:57, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Red as an Eye Color?

Is it possible for red to become an eye color? If it did, it'd be pretty creepy.

Albinos have red eyes because they can’t produce the pigments necessary for the other eye colours. Those are the only people with red eyes.

2007-08-11 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

What about yellow-gray?

Guys, and what about dark gray eyes with yellowish tint? Are they supposed to be hazel/amber? Actually, the article says that "Under magnification, gray eyes exhibit the least amount of yellow and brown color in the iris. These colors, when mixed with gray, create the blue and green hues", and, for example, my eyes can be transparent as gray but with slight yellowish tint although they do look definitely lighter than green ones, no blue at all.. Are these ones considerd hazel/amber as well? Der_Ritter 23:01, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

European and non-European

Under the Brown section: "Those with both European and non-European ancestry generally have dark eyes and more variability in eye color within their families." That sounds to me like "Earth people tend to have dark eyes." It'd be rather difficult to be not European and not non-European. What's actually meant could be 'a person with a European AND non-European 'mixed' background'. In which case, should the article be more specific by what background they mean? Shouriki 00:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it could be phrased better, I imagine the intention was correctly to say that even Europeans (Europe being the continent with the highest proportion of light eyes) mainly have dark eyes.--Lord of the Isles 02:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Questionabel sentence

I removed this:

Eye color is demanding, as all four genes must determine the same color for the eye color to be pure; otherwise a mixed color such as hazel will result.[1] [2]

Neither of the articles say what the sentence claims. Does anyone know where it came from? Is it a typo? Tocharianne 21:52, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

What would cause this

my eyes are a very dark brown color and have splotches of onyx black all over inside the iris. what would cause that color pattern? The Umbrella Corporation 07:25, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Article quality

For a biological article that is so popular and rather important, I feel this write-up is really quite poor. Some essentially obscure articles on the Wikipedia webpage are actually written to a far greater degree of accuracy and lack the exclusive quality this article comprises. For example, there are no photographs of any Negro or Asian samples, and furthermore, the article lacks sections on 'black' eye colour, as well as 'red' eye colour. The first of these eye colours is, arguably, the most common eye colour in the world (depending on how 'brown' is categorised) and the second eye colour occurs in instances of 1 in 12,000 humans born. I personally feel that is high enough to constitute mention. Another useful alteration would be to merge 'Grey' and 'Violet' eye-colours into the 'blue' section, since they are essentially cosmetic interpretations of variation in blue iris saturation, and presenting them under relevant subsections. Lastly, the photograph of 'an eye-colour that is too hard to ascertain' should be framed as a 'Caucasian' sample, given more background information, and placed at the top of the article as opposed to the green section. More emphasis should be placed on the differences among phenotype and genotype all through the article, not just at the end where one eye colour is concerned, and there should be a section outlining popular misconceptions with regard to eye colour, as well as some of the wider social implications posed by this central feature of human appearance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.77.198.217 (talk) 10:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

If you have the time to do such an overhaul to the article (which I agree, needs it), then go for it. It seems others here lack either time, interest, or knowledge, so some parts improve while others stay the same, which is why it's all so incoherent. -Bbik^★ 14:21, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Negro? Um...congratulations on time-traveling from the 1950s to the present. You should probably know that 'Negro' is now considered somewhat offensive. Ninquerinquar 20:19, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

first paragraph minor corrections, innacurate sentence

"Eye color is a polygenic trait and is determined primarily by the amount and type of pigments present in the eye's iris.[1][2] Humans and animals have many phenotypic variations in eye color.[3] In humans, these variations in color are attributed to varying ratios of eumelanin produced by melanocytes in the iris.[2]"

The first sentence is very good, the 2nd ok, but the 3rd, is redundant to the first, while being inaccurate. The article cited [2], discusses ratios of eumelanin and pheomelanin, ratios require 2 variables, so saying that color depends on varying ratios of eumelanin is not very meaningful, you could say "quantity" instead, but the article is being specific about different types of melanins, thus either specify them, which would fit with the following sentence, or drop this sentence entirely. 77.42.129.120 11:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Too many grey eye pictures?

There are already three photos of grey eyes, but I think it's enough to have just one picture of grey eyes here. Alicenoemi 11:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Hazel eye color! 2 other eye colors not listed in the wikipedia eye color page.

Under Hazel eye color, it states that "In North America, "hazel" is often used to describe eyes that appear to change color, ranging from light brown to green and even blue, depending on current lighting in the environment." This is not true at all! Hazel eye color, like any other eye colors, cannot change colors at all, and hazel eyes cannot change from light brown to blue, maybe from light brown to dark green, but not from light brown to green to blue, even with environmental lighting! It is impossible!

Also, the current pic of the eye on the right side under "hazel eyes" is not a hazel eye at all! Also, it is not a green eye, gray eye or brown eye, either! The iris in that pic is described as being a dark gray iris with an orange center near the pupil and green towards the outside. That is definitely not a hazel eye color and should be put as the posterchild eye color for a new eye color category known as "multicolor" eyes.

Also, shouldn't there be a section for "maroon" eyes on the eye colors page? I've never seen maroon eyes before, but have heard tales of law enforcement officers pursuing criminals and describing the criminal as having maroon eyes. So a section for "multicolor" and "maroon" eye colors would be good for the "eye color" page.

12.28.69.65 02:16, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Changing eye color through hypnosis

Eye color can apparently be altered through hypnosis [3]

This should probably be mentioned in the "eye color change" section dearly 22:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

It's an advert, not an article in a medical journal, research paper or even an article in a respected newspaper, it cannot be considered either a informed source or an impartial one.--Lord of the Isles 02:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I never heard of anything like that. If it was so easy, the world would be full of blue-eyed people everywhere (it is a beauty standard in most places of the world). And even though that link mentions that eye color can be change through surgeries, I've also never heard of anything similar. Although I've read about some cases of depigmentation in eye's irises through contact with Hydroquinone. --SangeYasha 06:35, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Changing appearance through hypnosis, along with beliefs in phrenology were the stuff of the speculations of some of the more ambitious doctors of the 18th and 19th centuries, and live on these days merely to amuse us in horror films. There are means of directly altering eye colour and of course skin colour - both of lightening and darkening. In the case of changing eye colour then other than using contact lenses, the Ancient Egyptians used Belladonna to cause the pupils to dilate making the eyes appear darker - if I recall correctly and also it was used in the renaissance, many chemicals for altering appearance (many very dangerous) have been fashionable down the ages, many of which were extremley dangerous. Joseph Mengele experimented with turning eyes blue using salt crystals, but always caused impairment of vision and in many cases blindness. Twins were usually used for such experiments because the genetic simularity made it easier to compare results of different chemicals on different twins. No doubt this is all covered elsewhere in Wikipedia and probably goes beyond the scope of this article.--Lord of the Isles 19:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone confirm this?

See this: [4] -- After I posted a comment above, I did some search and found that. But, maybe is this Dr. Manu talking about the darkening of the irides through the use of Latanoprost, or it is really a recent discovery of a surgery that can change the irides colours? The site doesn't seem very formal to me, but Manu adresses himself as an ophthalmologist. Does anyone have more information on this issue? SangeYasha 07:34, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

David Bowie?

The article "Eye color" reports that David Bowie does not have heterochromia; however, the article "List of people with heterochromia" cites David Bowie as having heterochromia. Just pointing out the inconsistency. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.97.43.175 (talk) 05:07, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

One iris was damaged, the pupil is constantly dilated. This gives the impression of odd coloured eyes. Urselius 09:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Sloppy science

There is at least one section saying "..... eye colour is most common in people of Celtic, Germanic and Slavic descent." This is nonsense, the groups mentioned are language groups, not genetic groups. Eye colour and language are not connected in any scientifically valid manner.

Bretons and Hebridean Islanders are both Celtic, I would submit that the average frequency of pale eyes in the two groups would be very different. The same applies to Tyrolese Austrians and Uppland Swedes, not to mention Serbs and Byelorussians.

If you mean people with Northern European ancestry say this don't bring language groups into the equation. Urselius 08:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Blue/Yellow eyes?

My eyes have a solid ring of yellow around the pupil and then blue surrounding it, making them two solid colors (no green). No matter the amount of light there is, or lack thereof, they basically stay the same. Looking at the article, there seems to be no sort of category for Blue/Yellow. Seeing as they aren't just plain Blue, Yellow, nor Green, I do not know what to certainly call my eyes. I'll add a link to them right here.[5] Thanks. --Sataka 01:09, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Try Eye color#Heterochromia. -Bbik^★ 07:52, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Ah, so it'd be among the lines of partial or sectoral heterochromia? Thanks for your clerification.--Sataka 02:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I take that back, it's among the lines of central heterochromia. My bad.--Sataka 20:06, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Green Eyes Eastern Europe?

I think that Green eyes like Blue eyes were originated in Northern Europe not in Eastern or Southern Europe!

• No one knows where any eye colour originated. Funkynusayri 20:04, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Many scientist believe that the mutation of light eyes originated around the Baltic Sea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.198.195 (talk) 09:40, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

• They may believe so, but it's not a fact. Funkynusayri 14:10, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

While the exact origin of green and blue eyes is unknown, it is definite that they are equally common among both Northern and Eastern Europeans, the grey-blue hue being dominant among Belarusians and ethnic Russians [6]. Well, of course, geographically their countries lie to the north of, say, Denmark or Holland, but they're hardly Northern European. The highest percentage of light-eyed and blond Europeans may be found among the Finns and Estonians, especially among the representatives of the Baltid phenotype. --Humanophage 12:58, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

eye color changes

i have blue-grey eyes, but they always change color (it looks like i have green eyes sometimes or blue or grey). any ideas? ☻wilted☻rose☻dying☻rose☻ 20:18, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

• when i was born i had dark brown eyes..now i have blue-green eyes

Middle east and Asians with Green eyes

These are not green but are hazel. for some reason when a person is not of european decent and has hazel eyes they call them green eyes. Thats not green eyes. There used to be 2 pictures of 2 people of middle east decent with hazel eyes listed on the green eyes section. Muslims and asians do not have green eyes they have hazel. Change this to the hazel eye section. There is no proof that muslims and asians have green eyes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SixthDream115 (talk • contribs) 18:42, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Both Middle Easterners and South Asians, as well as North Africans for that matter, can have bona fide green eyes. You're being silly. If you want sources, check this [7] this [8] this [9], and this: [10]

Sharbat Gula.

Otherwise there are plenty examples of celebrities from these regions with green or blue eyes. Also, there's the green eyed Afghan girl everybody knows about, that you could ignore her is pretty funny.

For the record, Muslims can look like anything, they're not a race or something like that. Just like Christians can look like anything. Should be common knowledge. Funkynusayri 12:07, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

The girl in the picture has hazel eyes. There is blue, green and brown in her eyes. Thats not green. You must either have a green eye person in your family to have green eyes so these people are either mixed or have hazel eyes. The source you gave is not reliable just someone saying middle eastern people have green eyes. My proof is that the picture you provided is clearing Hazel eyes. Find a source with a real picture of someone with real green eyes thats not white. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SixthDream115 (talk • contribs) 12:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Your arguments are vague. The sources are sources, if they are "bad" you'll have to prove it. The image is widely described as depicting a girl with green eyes, anyhow, I don't need to post a picture of a non-European person with green eyes if I have reliable sources stating such exist. That's how Wikipedia works,

This is not about being "white", green and blue eyes can occur in pretty much any population. Funkynusayri 12:46, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Er. Well, first of all, those do (at a glance, anyhow) look like reliable sources, they have citations and stuff at the bottom. However, they also don't seem to support your argument. Based on what I saw, they say that mixed green and brown (aka hazel) is a common color, but nothing about pure green, although the first one did mention the existence of pure blue in the group. -Bbik^★ 14:03, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

• Green eyes would thus be inherent in these populations, if blue and brown are present. Hardly needs to be separately mentioned, when the two "source colours" already are. Funkynusayri 14:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• Green-brown eyes and green eyes are not the same thing.Green-brown mean light brown more than green —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.200.149 (talk) 20:22, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• No one said they were the same thing, but that the presence of both blue, brown, and green-brown eyes makes it obvious that people with regular green eyes exist there too. Funkynusayri 20:30, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

• Green-brown mean hazel eyes not green! .i never saw arabian or cambogian guy with green eyes.Who wrote that green eyes are common in middle east or south asia?.Only european have pure green or pure blue eyes.For Example in india or in Iran very few people have blond-red hair and green or blue eyes.This because nordic tribe (the indoeuropeans) migration in Asia from Northern Europe about 5000 years ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.211.154 (talk) 20:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• Well, you're wrong. There are plenty of people in the Middle East with blue, hazel, and green eyes. Notable xamples could be Bashar al Assad, the president of Syria, and Emile Lahoud, president of Lebanon. This has nothing to do with "Nordic tribes". Funkynusayri 21:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• The modern people of the middle-east are a mixture of races.Many Europeans people had conquered the east in the History.Greeks,Romans,Crusaders etc...the arabians or middle-easterns in general who have light hair or light eyes have europeans ancestry. Bashar al-Assad looks like europeans because he's european too. Iran mean "Country of the Aryans" because aryans have conquered that land Thousands years ago...still today some iranians have blond red or light brown hair and light eyes. THIS IS HISTORY! if you don't know history,don't write.

• Exactly, if you don't know history, or genetics for that matter, don't write. You seem to know squat about both, so it certainly applies. Europeans are the genetic descendants of Middle Easterners, not the other way around, and what we today call Iran wasn't "conquered by Aryans", the Aryans originated there, and looked like modern day Iranians. Modern day Iranians are the descendants of the "Aryans", not the Nordic "master race", as falsely claimed by the Nazis.

By the way, how exactly is Bashar al Assad "European"? Funkynusayri 22:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

The man Bashar al Assad obliviously has white ancestry by his looks. Green eyes or blue in middle easterners is not natural they are usually mixed people or they have hazel which can be found it lots of races. Whites did not come from the middle east. There is DNA evidence that supports what I say. Whites and Middle Easterner's DNA different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SixthDream115 (talk • contribs) 03:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The artile about hazel eyes has a picture of someones eyes with green and brown and looks exactly like the arab girl you said has green eyes. Hazel means more than one color and the girl has blue green eyes with brown in the middle. How am i Ignoring her. Her eyes are hazel. So stop refering to her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SixthDream115 (talk • contribs) 03:54, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Map of human migrations.

This genetic distance map made in 2002 is an estimate of 18 world human groups by a neighbour-joining method based on 23 kinds of genetic information.

Europeans are descendants of Middle Easterners, it's a genetic fact. Europeans and Middle Easterners are within the same genetic cluster, "Caucasians", so there's not much to discuss about that issue. Take a look at the maps on the right.

As for the Afghan girl, who by the way isn't an Arab, she is widely famous for her green eyes, so I don't really care if some guy on the Internet claims she hasn't. Funkynusayri 06:09, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• I'm not Nazi! I'm not racist!i just wanna say the true.Europe and Asia were conquered by Indoeuropeans.

Indoeuropeans came from south russia, between Black sea and Caspian sea. They were white.Some years ago in China were found mummies of white people,the Tocarians (indoeuropeans).Many of these mummies were blond and red-haired like the northen Europeans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration

http://www.msmoran.com/mummieseurope.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_Mummies —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.223.4.177 (talk) 08:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Yet your arguments are discredited Nazi theories. "Indo European" is a lingistic term and has nothing to do with race, and no one knows where they originated. Anyhow, they're irrelevant to the discussion. Funkynusayri 16:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• Indo-Europeans theorie is not a Nazi theorie.What the function of ligth eyes in Middle-East?? the climate is torrid!

is obvious the fact that they're not originated in this place

No one said that the original Indo-Aryans were invented by Nazis, but the theory that these people were identical to modern day North Europeans is a ridiculous result of the bad science at the time (late 1800s, early 1900s), and isn't taken seriously by anyone today. As for why Middle Easterners should have light eyes, well, why should Europeans? No one knows as a fact what they're for. Funkynusayri 17:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• Lightly pigmented eyes are indigenous only to Europe. The remainder are most likely a result of mixed European ancestry, such as in Northern Africa or Afghanistan and Northern India. Recall the Germanic invasions of North Africa, many of these Germanic tribes settled and left genetic traces of their presence in these regions. That's why we encounter green-eyed Algerians or Lebanese, Turks, etc. But these traits or not indigenous to the region. Simple as that. Koalorka (talk) 19:05, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Means nothing without sources. Simple as that. Funkynusayri —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.121.66.185 (talk) 16:21, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Girl with Green Eyes

The girl in the picture clearly has eyes which appear greenish however individual parts of the eyes are coloured, in fact the correct technical term for eyes with multiple colouring in both eyes is indeterminate. Hazel is a nut colour, more a greyish or greenish brown. My eyes have a mixture of blue, grey, yellow, tawny, hazel and greenish bits with tawny and dark brown flecks in the middle - personally I would describe them as indeterminate, despite having very dark bits in although mostly light I would say they were definitely not hazel, and if they were to be described as anything would more appropriately be described as greenish, and actually it isn't quite as simple as everyone with a particular eye colour having genes for that colour - green eyes for example could be caused by a mixture of genes that would be expected to tend to cause blue eyes with others such as ones that would be likely to cause brown, black or grey eyes; equally problems with recombination can cause someone with genes that would be expected to have brown eyes instead having eyes of another colour.--Lord of the Isles 13:46, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, so if both blue and brown eyes are found in these countries, it's pretty obvious that green ones do too. Funkynusayri 16:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

People with green eyes are either found in a country or not, if they aren't then they aren't whether people with blue eyes or brown eyes are or not. If they are then they are even if no one in the country had blue or brown eyes. I doubt there is a country in the world where there isn't a proportion of the population with shades of blue, grey, green, yellow, hazel, brown and black eyes and of course indeterminate - it's about the proportions of the populations with those colourings, the number with black eyes in Sweden or Finland will be very small, numbers with blue, grey or green eyes in tropical Africa and Southern India and Yemen will also be very small but there will always be the odd one and it can't neccessarily be put down to mixing with other groups because of the numbers of different possible causes including eye damage, conditions such as albinism.--Lord of the Isles 19:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Italians only 20% of Light Eyes???

"One survey estimated that nearly 90% of Icelanders have blue or green eyes,[41] in contrast to 20% of Spaniards and Italians of the north."

This is not true at all!

This is a study of italians by Carleton S. Coon in 1939:

    TRAIT       NORTH SOUTH
  Hair Blondism  15%  6%*  
  Brown Hair     40%  48%
  Black Hair     25%  30%
  Eye Blondism  65%  56%  = (Blue,Green,Hazel eyes)
  Brunet Skin  ~50%  >50%  
  Average Height  168 cm  165 cm  (in modern day 176,9 cm 174,8 cm)
  Cephalic Index **  83.5  79  

• Red and reddish-brown hair shades were observed in an additional 16% of this sample.
  • Above 81 is in the Alpine-Dinaric range, and below 76 in the Mediterranean range.

AUTHOR: Carleton S. Coon (1939)

http://racialreality.110mb.com/italians.html

• Eye blondish merely means non-brown eyes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.254.192.215 (talk) 21:19, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

• In fact,non-brown eyes means Light Eyes: Blue,Green,Hazel. There are no other human eye color.

That's from 1939, if you want to change the information, you will need an actual study. And for that, we have one that states very different informations: http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Frost_06.html - --201.53.61.233 (talk) 16:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

EYCL1,EYCL2,EYCL3

-EYCL1: A gene for green/blue eye color located on chromosome 19. http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=25004

-EYCL2: A gene for brown eye color. http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=25005

-EYCL3: A gene for brown/blue eye color located on chromosome 15. http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=25006 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.222.8 (talk) 10:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Green eyes in Chinese Mythology

The new finds are forcing a re-examination of old Chinese books that describe historical or legendary figures of great height, with deep-set blue or green eyes, long noses, full beards, and red or blond hair. Scholars have traditionally scoffed at these accounts, but it now transpires that these accounts were correct.

One of these accounts can be found in the song to the great general Lü by the Chinese poet Li He (circa 790-816 AD) in his "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" :

Song: General Lü

General Lü,

The valiant-hearted,

Riding alone on Scarlet Hare,

Out of the gates of Ch'in,

To weep at Gold Grain Mound

By funeral trees.

Inscrutable that vaulted azure,

Arching over earth,

This is the way the world wags

In our Nine Provinces.

Gleaming ore from Scarlet Hill!

Hero of our time!

Green-eyed general, you well know

The will of Heaven!

http://www.white-history.com/hwr6a.htm

Blue eyes recessive?

Definition of Eye color

Eye color: The color of the iris. The genetics of eye color are complicated. Eye color is polygenic. It is determined by multiple genes. The eye color genes include EYCL1 (a green/blue eye color gene located on chromosome 19), EYCL2 (a brown eye color gene) and EYCL3 (a brown/blue eye color gene located on chromosome 15). There are clearly other genes that influence eye color. The once-held view that blue eye color is a simple recessive trait has been shown to be wrong. The genetics of eye color are so complex that almost any parent-child combination of eye colors can occur.

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=25003

People should also read about this, here: http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jan2002/1012348094.Ge.r.html

Greys eyes contradictions?

1. No brown or little brown pigment?

Classification of colors

"Gray eyes appear gray because they have a little yellow and no brown in them."

Gray

"Under magnification, gray eyes exhibit small amounts of yellow and brown color in the iris."

2. Grey is a predominant eye color of it's own or it's a shade of blue?

Classification of colors

"There are 3 true colors in the eyes that determine the outward appearance; brown, yellow, and gray."

Gray

"Gray eyes are a variant of blue eyes..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.227.31.165 (talk) 06:36, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

What?

"Ireland is the country with the highest proportion of blue-eyed people"

infact the scandinavians are all brown-eyed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.223.11.131 (talk) 20:34, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

have a look at this research: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/110521660/ABSTRACT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.109.187 (talk) 16:38, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

A quote from Carlton Coon: "In the proportion of pure light eyes, Ireland competes successfully with the blondest regions of Scandinavia. Over 46 per cent of the total group has pure light eyes, and of these all but 4 per cent are blue. Very light-mixed eyes (equivalent to Martin #13-14) account for another 30 per cent, while less than one-half of one per cent have pure brown. There is probably no population of equal size in the world which is lighter eyed, and blue eyed, than the Irish."

• Coon was a charlatan , a lot of people in Ireland have brown eyes ,especially in the west coast. Irish population is more mediterranean than nordic.

His theories were absolute rubbish, but do you think he invented his measurements?.

But you are also confused, it seems. You seem to think that there is a 'nordic' race with blond hair and blue eyes. But the distribution of blond hair and blue eyes are different. Pure platinum blond is most frequently accopmanied with grey, not blue eyes. You are assuming that the areas with the highest concentration of blond hair are also the areas with the highest frequency of blue eyes. This is an erroneous assumption.

The area with the highest concentration of 'pure' blue eyes is undoubtedly Ireland, where the dark hair / blue eye combination is most common, followed by areas of Britain, Scandinavia and the Baltic.

• Ok maybe you have reason but if the pure Blue eyes are linked with dark hair and grey eyes are linked with blond hair , green eyes are linked to? (I mean pure green eyes not hazel eyes) The stereotype says that green eyes are often combined with freckles and red hair but i don't know if is true or false.

Also Coon said that southern italians have the 56% of percentage of light eyes , is true? Northern and Central italians are fair but southern italians i don't know ...

No one should take Coon seriously, and not for the fact of being a charlatan, but for his time (1939). By the time being, people should look at Peter Frost's studies: http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Frost_06.html -

• Peter Frost's studies are completely wrong ,an example : Spaniards are more dark than Italians but in Peter Frost's map in Spain light eyes are more diffuse than Italy , false ! another thing ,according to his map moroccans are more blond than italian , another idiocy , the right percentage of light eyes and light hair is that of Coon.

• • I suppose Peter Frost bought his diploma, and bribed an university from other continent to work with his charlatan studies. And that, of course, you are a specialist on the subject, so I should not doubt that more than 50% of the Italians are light-haired and light-eyed, even if the Italian stereotype is of black-haired and darker skinned persons than northern europeans. And even if the Definitions of whiteness in the United States has historical sources that "Italians had been colloquially considered "ethnic" or "not quite white" along with some other southern European immigrants, such as Greeks, Albanians, Romanians and Bulgarians".

• • And you should research before talking: "Indeed, the Guanches are deemed to be related to the Berbers of neighboring Morocco, who are, likewise, tall, blond and blue-eyed when unmixed with the Arab majority." [11]

• Only Southern Italians are dark . Have you ever seen a Lombard or a Tuscan with dark skin ???? The italians are sterotyped dark because Italian-American are mostly (90%) Sicilians and Calabrians . Oh.. according to your absurd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States , Irish and Germans were not considered white by Americans and also says "However, northern Italian immigrants were seen as a more "desirable nationality" after northern Europeans." for example i'm from Central italy(Marche) and i have light brown hair and blue-green eyes like the majority of central and northern italians, i'm white or black?...If you are the typical American W.A.S.P. who hate the italians ,please go to .....

Dark italians? the majority have brown hair and light eyes , have a look:

http://racialreality.110mb.com/north.html

http://racialreality.110mb.com/center.html

and again:

http://www.white-history.com/earlson/nordic_italy.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.200.138 (talk) 09:47, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

• • • WASP? Lol. The fact is, what is the problem with not having blond hair and light eyes? I REALLY doubt Peter Frost's studies to be so famous if they weren't accurate.
    • Italians are white (more than 80%, I would say), and they can have light eyes, but that is only predominant on the north. I know that because I went to the german-speaking areas, Tuscany and Rome. Now go to Magdeburg, in Germany, and see difference. If that can make you feel better, let's say that the Germans are albinos. All the Italians that I saw were white, but not "albinos". I saw many with green eyes and brown hair, but not as a majority, as I saw in German.
    • I don't like to discuss things like that on wikipedia, because I really don't get the problem. So just prove me with a reliable source that Peter Frost is wrong, then I seal my mouth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.53.61.233 (talk) 15:25, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

• I travel a lot too and for example Bavarians,Austrians and Frenchs are very similar to Northern italians and Central (Umbrians,Marchigians and Tuscans).Anyway Rome is not a good example because during the fascism was populated by people from Campania,Calabria and Sicily , go in the countryside near Rome and you see the difference , Tuscany the same thing a lot of Neapolitans settled in Tuscany after the II WW . However the percentage of light hair in Peter Frost map is wrong , because in the north the percentage is about 40% in Central italy 30-35% and in the south 20-25% , blue eyes are more common than green eyes (they are very rare in all the world), blond hair 15-25 % in the north 10-15% in the center an 5-10 % in the south , the rest are brown ,reddish-brown or dark brown and black hair in minority (20-25%)

This is a map of hair blondism in italy by Biasutti (pure blond hair , not dark blond or light brown)

http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/38316/2003631590295084685_rs.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.215.153 (talk) 16:44, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

• • Then I really suggest you to contact Peter Frost, because his studies are used in wikipedia at a great scale (I was only aware to his studies because of wikipedia). The site seems trustful, since it is not saying 99% of the italians are blond and blue-eyed (this doesn't happen in any country of the world, maybe a really small and isolated village with no genetic drifts, which is also virtually impossible). Hopefully, he will change his map. And if he doesn't, it would be good to paste this map in some article. But he is a scholar, and his reputation depend on that, so I think a nice e-mail can solve all this.

contradicting information

on "eye color mocks easy rules"(reference 8) it is stated that an baby's eye color stabilizes at the age of 3, but both in the article and in the reference 11 it says that a baby's eye color stabilizes at the age of 6 months.

This article is a mess.

It looks like people from each country in the world are throwing links (ignoring wikipedia format) to prove that in their countries there are many people with light eyes. In the article and the talk page.

• Nazism is very common on internet