User talk:Seleukosa: Difference between revisions

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Welcome!

Hello, Seleukosa, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! Niko Silver 22:59, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your request...

Don't worry too much. I (and a lot of others) have both in their watchlists. I'll check later (same response in my talk). Niko Silver 23:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Καλωσήρθες. I've no idea about those citations, their content and how they're used in these articles. I suggest if you feel that the content is unsourced or a minority opinion to:

Add other source(s) with other aspects of the story (and other texts).
Request specific quotes from these sources in the article talks.

Will be watching, but don't just delete what may look like a sourced part of the article text. If you know for a fact that the sources don't include the info presented, then add a {{failed verification}} after these sources and state what the true content says in the article talks. Niko Silver 23:19, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Niko kane mou mia xari kai des ean einai orati i upografi mou stis erotiseis pou ekana!

Nai, einai file mou. Niko Silver 23:13, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings

Hi Seleukosa, very happy to know you :-) And BTW, I really don't know of what you excused yourself for, you certainly haven't said anything uncivil. And I greatly approve of your asking help and advice from an expert and respected editor, like User:NikoSilver; it's the right thing to do, and you shouldn't be afraid to do it in the future. As for the disputed edits regarding Germanos Karavangelis and Greek Struggle for Macedonia, I didn't make them myself, so I have problems awnsering to your points; but according to WP:AGF, we must assume that these edits are sourced, even if the old editor will not give us info, as he left wikipedia slamming the door several months ago. As for the rest I fully endorse NikoSilver's indications. As for the image you contested, that maybe easier to awnser, as it was uploaded by a Thessalonikian editor, User:Kapnisma. For clarifications regarding that photo try sending a message on his talk page, but keep in mind he's not always around.--Aldux 18:23, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and since you're a new editor, consider giving a look at the rules of wikipedia, like WP:V, WP:NPOV, WP:CIV and WP:OR, as they are useful to understand how the community works. Ciao!--Aldux 18:31, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I put those articles on watch. If nobody answers your querries then feel free to remove the unreferenced content once and for all (preferably by moving it in Talk). You shouldn't worry about it too much, there's a lot of POV-pushing going on in wikipedia. Stick with WP:CITE and WP:NOR and you'll always be right. Oh, and stay away from drugs. Miskin 15:34, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Seleukosa excuse me for not being able to assess your information and for not having the time to do so these days. :-( I should have been a better student in history (which I despised due to seriously fucked-up teachers filled with hate for kids in my social position -but that's another story). I found out quite late that it is a fascinating subject. I know a few things about Macedonia, mostly from here! And I've practically made the articles Macedonia (terminology) and Macedonia naming dispute, from information here and on scholarly works on the internet (well, I also bought several books...) Study the links Aldux and Miskin gave you. I'm very pleased and honoured to be the one who welcomed you. Call me anytime, and I'll do my best. Niko Silver 23:34, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

E tu amico Aldux... ma che dici? "expert and respected editor, like User:NikoSilver" sei pazzo? Non sono "expert", e per... rispetto... :-) Don't go around slandering me like that please! People may think I'm serious! Niko Silver 23:34, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Χαιρετισμός

Καλησπέρα αδερφέ, έκανα διορθώσεις στα δύο άρθρα. Ποτέ δεν έγραψα οτι είναι Τούρκοι αυτοί στη φωτογραφία. Αυτο, μαζί με τις άλλες ανοησίες είναι κάποια σχόλια κάποιου Σκοπιανού ο οποίος χρησιμοποιεί ως πηγή τον γνωστό και μη εξαιρετέο Λιθοξόου. Kapnisma 16:53, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a new article Tellos Agras, have a look. Kapnisma 20:39, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kalispera kai kali Kathara Deftrera! Nomizw oti kala ekanes, yparxoun polloi aplitoforitoi users stous opoious prepei na exigoume merika pragmata. Kapnisma 17:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yanya vs. Ioannina

Hi, in the Manakis brothers article, you changed "Yanya (modern Ioannina)" to "Ioannina" with the Edit Summary "corection [sic] of orthographical mistake". The name "Yanya" was the contemporary name under the Ottoman Empire, and is clearly not a spelling error (since it is after all linked to the Ioannina article). And please don't use misleading or incorrect edit summaries -- this is against WP policy and can get you into trouble. --Macrakis 20:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for understanding your mistake macrakis. We agree that nationalist ideas are bad (to be more precise it is a disaster). But the same applies for political correctness and for anti-national ideas. Neutrality and the willingness to accept real facts is the only way! Seleukosa 09:36, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

AfD nomination of Slavic toponyms for Greek places

An article that you have been involved in editing, Slavic toponyms for Greek places, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Slavic toponyms for Greek places. Thank you. Andreas ^(T) 20:02, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

good job

Bravo Seleukosa, you did a good job on the slavic toponyms article. It had been bugging me for a while, but I didn't know what to do with it. I like your initiative --Tsourkpk (talk) 03:58, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Could you?

Could you contribute with your opinion here? talk chaonians.ThankouMegistias (talk) 10:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Slavic Toponyms article

See here simovski Megistias (talk) 11:40, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since the article is essentially not that different from the deleted version, my recommendation would be to nominate it for deletion again. Most of the criticisms that applied to the previous version apply here as well. --Tsourkpk (talk) 17:14, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please contribute here

Please contribute here Prehistoric Balkans Megistias (talk) 22:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Macedon

Hi, the fact that it's, perhaps, a majority opinion is treated in the article (as well as other Macedon-related ones). It's certain that some scholars (maybe a minority, but still a big one) treat the subject differently. Also, language doesn't necessarily represent ethnic consciousness (the Macedonians could have been Greek-speaking but were still considered 'barbarians' -with some exceptions such as the Argeads- in pre-Hellenistic times by the (southern) Greeks). Let's not treat it so superficially. What do you have against -not- mentioning that right in the intro considering it's discussed so extensively (especially their "Hellenization") in the article(s), anyway? 3rdAlcove (talk) 23:57, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scholars consider them ancient Greek or Ancient Greek with some mix in the language.Thats what it says on the talk page not something else.Megistias (talk) 00:21, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are driving my head in, read what I wrote again. 3rdAlcove (talk) 00:23, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I read the sources.And the southern Greeks is thucydides and we know why and demosthenes and why know why as well.There is not "southern greeks" that have this view as if it was universal.Hesiod mentions them in theogony in 700 bc.Megistias (talk) 00:28, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

POV pushing & WikiStalking

If you continue your POV pushing by removing material from Wikipedia or WikiStalking, I will report you to the WP:ANI board. You don't consider Simovski a reliable source, but oddly nearly the entire articles you are deleting material from are unsourced. Your selective deletions - not just of Simovski sourced material but of material relating to non-Greek presence in what is now Greek is apparently a POV push. If you continue you will be reported and may be blocked or banned. If you have issues on the sources, place the comments on the talk page as you have done with a few. I also noted that you have removed material that is so widely sourceable that even you had to concede to revert yourself. And as for your edit summaries that because a place didn't have a Slavic population that no toponym could exist - I suggest that you look at the article exonym as in why do Greeks call Florence Φλωρεντία (Florentia, a Greek toponym, when no Greeks lived there) and Kharkiv Χάρκοβο, and Lausanne Λωζάννη, and Chicago Σικάγο etc.... Carlossuarez46 (talk) 02:50, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is your personal opinion that "I am pushing POV". I instead considere that I am reverting POV pushing. Your source is highly controversial and Wiki is clear "It means citing verifiable, authoritative sources whenever possible, especially on controversial topics. When a conflict arises regarding neutrality, declare a cool-down period and tag the article as disputed, hammer out details on the talk page, and follow dispute resolution." Have you follow any of the above? Seleukosa (talk) 12:46, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You all claim that Simovski isn't reliable - do you have a reliable source as to (a) which ethnicities were majorities during various periods in these areas of Greece; and (b) what those people called their villages and towns? Simovski cites the Greek laws that made the changes in names. You concede that there was a change in ethnicity in population exchange, etc. You are even removing Vlach names from Vlach places as well. Again, the Slavic names may have derived from the Greek, the Turkish, Albanian, or whatever, but it is what the Slavic people called these places. And as for "Aegean Macedonia" being problematic, it is the normal formulation of the region in Macedonian, Bulgarian, and Serbian sources, just as "East Thrace" is normal in Greek sources for European Turkey, even though the Turks don't like that formulation. I have you to show any error in Simovski information and you are unable to do so, so while you all claim to have problems with the source, you have not come up with any contrary information (if you do, add it to the articles) or disproven any of information I have added. As for this being controversial, other than to Greek nationalists who are quite content to add Greek names to Albanian geographic articles, I think your actions speak for themselves. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 16:05, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lets all continue the talk on the slavic toponyms article.And yes he is not a proper source.[1]Megistias (talk) 16:16, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

CPR, response to the heart attack comment. :-) Humor... Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:51, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

While you are all engaged in thinking of geography, perhaps you could standardize the naming of Greek geography articles here: is it Place name (Prefecture), Greece? or Place name, Prefecture? The mix & match seems very haphazard and the lists of settlements for the prefectures I have reviewed are more complete and useful at the Greek or Macedonian WP - perhaps we can do better here. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:55, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I never assume you are stupid, we just disagree sometimes. The question above is best handled by examples. Look at

Wouldn't it be better if they all were:

Or:

? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:10, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, because many of these will appear on disambiguation pages and Kastania (Pieria), Greece says it all, for example... Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:11, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See the changes

Some have not been corrected diffs Megistias (talk) 16:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greeks

I incorporated the sources you added (I had dug them up from Google book and added them to the Fallme article myself). I don't think we should give him the benefit of trying to refute him since showing the similarities between him and the other antihellenists who call us "modern Greeks" with the nazi's should be enough to show them for what they are. I also added two papers on the genetics section that show the slavic haplotype R1a1 is negligible in Greece (12%) and pointed out explicitly that this does not support Fallme. I want to avoid strong POV language and let facts speak for themselves. Tell me what you think. The article has been nomited at WP:GAN and it will need alot of work in the coming weeks. Are you interested in helping in other sections?Xenovatis (talk) 23:01, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Macedon

Yeah, I forgot that one... The Cat and the Owl (talk) 10:35, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are actually many many more! Seleukosa (talk) 10:51, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I know. I was going to add more, but I got stopped (see talk page). However I think they are enough for the moment. If needed we can always come up with more.The Cat and the Owl (talk) 10:54, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, sorry, I got confused with Ancient Macedonians, where I got stopped for adding too many sources... The Cat and the Owl (talk) 10:56, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting! If we add a lot of sources we get stoped! On the other hand there are articles with no sources or only one biased source! Seleukosa (talk) 10:58, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

True, true... O tempora, o mores!... The Cat and the Owl (talk) 10:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

LOL!!! Seleukosa (talk) 11:00, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alexander

You are about remove references and historic data which has been added to an article buy other Greek-point of view references. This can go on for ever. There I would suggest to keep Alexanders origin unsolved until it has been officially and internationally recognized by both sides. You can find recognized references and I can find which both confirm these origins... When I went to school and university in history classes and lections Alexander the Great was always mentioned and wrote in western history books as a Macedonian king. And that was not in 80s or 90s, as I graduated in 2007... Karabinier (talk) 15:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What do you claim?? Leonidas is also mentioned as a Spartan king, does that means he wasn't a Greek?? The Cat and the Owl (talk) 12:50, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The majority of modern historians agree that ancient Macedonians were Greeks. There isn’t any real respectful historian who has suggested that the ancient Macedonians were not Greeks.

And none has ever suggested that modern Slav-Macedonians have any relation with ancient Macedonians.

Seleukosa (talk) 19:06, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitration enforcement

Please see here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Arbitration_enforcement#User:Karabinier Thanks.Xenovatis (talk) 13:27, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An Award

		The Harmonious Grazing Zebras Award
		I, Fut.Perf., award Seleukosa with this Harmonious Grazing Zebras Award, for introducing stripes [2]. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Άρθρο

Ρήξε μιά ματιά [3] σε παρακαλώ. --Tsourkpk (talk) 01:09, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 156: / Line 156: @@
 |style="vertical-align:top; border-top:1px solid gray; color:black" | I, [[User:Future Perfect at Sunrise|Fut.Perf.]], award Seleukosa with this Harmonious Grazing Zebras Award, for introducing '''stripes''' [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Greece&diff=209072230&oldid=208911791]. [[User:Future Perfect at Sunrise|Fut.Perf.]] [[User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise|☼]] 20:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 |}
+== Άρθρο ==
+Ρήξε μιά ματιά  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Aegean_Macedonians|εδώ] σε παρακαλώ.  --[[User:Tsourkpk|Tsourkpk]] ([[User talk:Tsourkpk|talk]]) 01:09, 14 May 2008 (UTC)