Talk:BioShock

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PLaystation 3 version

I believe we need to clarify some items concerning the existence of a Playstation 3 version. The article mentions that Electronic Gaming Monthly reported that a PS3 version was in the works. While that is true, it was in the "Rumor Mill" section, which as history as demonstrated is not always accurate. Additionally, I believe we should clarify under the platforms in the information box that a citation is needed either from 2K or several reputable websites/magazines. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.66.91.188 (talk) 17:45, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Hyperlink for 'Big Sister Is Watching You' reference

This wiki page refers to Whittaker Chamber's article 'Big Sister Is Watching You' and I believe a hyperlink should be added to article. This article was originally published in the National Review, and here is the url for the article in their archive: http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback200501050715.asp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iwiwcontributor (talk • contribs) 04:54, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Ryan's Death

"Ryan then orders Jack to kill him, so as to die on his own terms". This doesn't make sense, needs to be re-written. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DrTheKay (talk • contribs) 07:00, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Its self explantory. (a commer is like a weak full stop) he wants to die how he says not any other way. if he says "kill me" then its his way —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.31.189.93 (talk) 13:20, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Rewrite it. 216.8.128.109 (talk) 22:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Not only is the sentence not very well written, that sentence is also inaccurate. Ryan wanted to believe his son was not a slave, and capable of making decisions. That is why he kept saying "a man" during the death scene. He was hoping his son was a man, not a slave to Fontaine. This is backed up by the fact that as game play continues you, Jack, need to remove Fontaine's control over you by obtaining to two solutions to break the mind control. Ryan did not want to die on his own terms, he wanted his son to be a man, not a slave.

24.241.228.129 (talk) 22:37, 4 June 2008 (UTC)Quest15

I guess I am wrong. The current article is also wrong though.

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=539 Ken Levine states in that interview that Ryan has Jack kill him to show Jack that he is just a slave. Ryan dies because he tells Jack to kill him, and for no other reason. That is a significant difference then his own terms. Ryan shows Jack that he has no will of his own. Ryan makes Jack kill him, to teach him a lesson. Quest15 (talk) 23:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)Quest15

voice actors

If someone knew who voiced Atlas, Bridgett Tennebaum and Jack could you please add it in to the article. That would help alot. For people who don't know who voices Andrew Ryan, its Armin Shimermin. --69.124.58.112 (talk) 17:18, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I know the voice of Atlas. His name is Karl Hanover and is an actor in New York now. He is Irish, lived in the SF Bay Area for many years (I did several theatre shows with him), and he was formally trained at the National Theatre Conservatory in Denver, CO. In 2007, he was Iago in Philadelphia Shakespeare Festival's production of Othello (here he is in the National Theatre Conservatory's production of Othello in 2006 - yes, 2 Iago's in 2 years - during a fight scene). He was in Bill Pullman's first play called Expedition 6. He has also appeared in WallStrip as a special correspondent (WallStrip Episode on YouTube - note he won't sound quite the same in this clip as in the game since he's hamming it up in this clip)... I don't know of other readily available video evidence. I don't think he has a Web site. Since the article is semi-protected, I can't seem to add it, but I just wanted to explain who he is here because I'm not exactly sure how to validate it's him in the game. He mentions it in an NTC alumni update if you scroll way down. The unions involved had a very particular issue with credits in the game. He'll probably kill me just for writing this... Greggerca (talk) 03:21, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

download

the new plasmids and tonics unblance the game by a long shot, i think this should be noted.

Orchestral Score

The Orchestral score is mentioned as being made available but the reference link [129] has become inaccurate it should be either: http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/updates.html or http://downloads.2kgames.com/bioshock/BioShock_Score.zip update it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.69.83.60 (talk) 14:42, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Bioshock critical analyses

Here are some articles for a critical analysis of the game, written by myself and others who love bringing a deep discussion to a deep game:

Bioshock Explained: The Horror of Randianism
http://my.opera.com/noisewar/blog/2007/09/01/bioshock-explained

Suffer the Little Children
http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2007/08/column_the_aberrant_gamer_suff.php

Bioshock - A Lesson About Societal Norms Gone Awry
http://www.mytakeongames.com/?p=7

What Does Bioshock Have In Common With The Incredibles?
http://nomorequo.blogspot.com/2007/12/what-does-bioshock-have-in-common-with.html

Ludonarrative Dissonance in Bioshock
http://clicknothing.typepad.com/click_nothing/2007/10/ludonarrative-d.html

Noisewar (talk) 20:09, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Big Daddy (Bioshock) and a ref not yet used

I have redirected the PROD-nominated article Big Daddy (Bioshock) to this article. The original article contained two references with incidental mentions of Big Daddy; one of these references is already included here. The second reference was to http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/813/813214p1.html, which is not included yet in this article. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 15:32, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the notability call is close on this one, but your redirect seems like a good idea for now. When I get a chance, I'll dig up some references I've seen and see if I can put a decent stub together. — Satori Son 13:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Game about a utopia, or a dystopia?

I'm a little confused ... a reference to this game over on the System Shock 2 article mentions that BioShock is about a utopia. I read articles on Utopia and Dystopia, and afterwards felt that BioShock was about a dystopian society. I then searched on the net for a source to back-up this idea, and thought that I had found one, so I edited that article to replace the unsourced comment of BioShock being a utopian society gone awry, with my edit and source. Somebody disagreed, and reverted it back to saying that it is about a utopia. Even over here, on the main BioShock article, it is described, more than once, as being a dystopia (even by the designers). —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheWizardOfAhz (talk • contribs) 13:22, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

seems like your in the right. anybody who knowas anything about this game wouldent say "utopia" when talking about it.(124.183.3.228 (talk) 13:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC))

The entire premise of Rapture is that it was designed as an underwater utopia. The fact that it didn't work out doesn't make it a dystopia, it makes it a failed utopia-- a subtle but important distinction. When the player arrives in Rapture, it's a war zone, which makes it no more a dystopia than any other war zone. Ken Levine himself has said--

"So I came up with this notion of this Utopia they didn’t want anyone to find. From that, I wondered what sort of Utopia it would be, and came up with the character Andrew Ryan and his sort of philosophical background: pseudo-objectivism and extremely capitalistic view on the world." [1]

"They built this utopia but there are cracks in it and there is no better way to show it than the water coming in." [2]

"When I started talking internally about the game world, it was hard for people to understand exactly what I meant by 'utopia.' ... But the other thing people thought is, 'Oh it's a utopia, everybody's happy together,' but in reality, why do you have plumbers?" [3]

"Well, the game does take place in a failed semi-objectivist Utopia! However, unlike Rand, we tried to take the concept of Utopia and examine it as if it were built not by gods dressed like men, but by flesh and blood people with real flaws. And unlike Orwell's 1984, we wanted to show a Utopia whose intentions were good, that really had a chance to work if people could just not be so… human." [4]

"We wanted to come up with a cool utopia, not model an AK-47." [5]

Clayhalliwell (talk) 16:25, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah, ha! That makes much more sense to me. Thank you! TheWizardOfAhz (talk) 21:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Spoiler warning needed

I think a Spoiler warning is needed for the story section because of the would you kindly twist which can ruin the gameplay if you read it first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.62.14 (talk) 08:31, 5 February 2008 (UTC) we dont use them anymore —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.168.28.195 (talk) 07:33, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

If you read a section called "Story" you should expect spoilers, thats why its about the story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.97.131 (talk) 02:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Ending, Tone

In order to lighten the tone on which the Story section ends, would someone kindly put the description of the good ending AFTER the descriptions of the bad and sad endings? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.253.161 (talk) 01:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

     - "would someone kindly"?  Very funny.  -Evan 2/28/2008

the game isnt very happy. but if you want to do it go ahead, it doesnt really matter —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.168.28.195 (talk) 05:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Plasmids

Shouldn't you say something about the plaasmids that are usable and a little bit about guns and stuff TranscendantX (talk) 01:18, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

It already summarizes plasmids; excess trivial information isn't good. · AndonicO ^Hail! 01:22, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

A weapons list isn't trivial in an FPS.75.121.36.237 (talk) 15:54, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Arbiter099

DX10 Benefits

Hi,

You guys keep reverting my edits. I don't know why, there are several sources

  - http://au.gamespot.com/features/6177688/p-3.html
  - http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/bioshock_directx10_performance/page4.asp
  - http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2007/08/30/bioshock_gameplay_graphics_and_performance/5

each of which shows a clear and described difference between DX9 and DX10. Yes, there are sites which say otherwise, but as both GameSpot and TweakGuides state, this is due to the glitch of the in-game controller not working. I am not very good at referencing, but these sources more than confirm there is a difference in particles/water/shadows, and that the in-game option is broken. That's a pretty notable thing and I need your help to include it, rather than simply reverting it back for no reason.

I'll wait a few days for your response then go ahead and have a go at editing it again myself. If there is some problem with my information, please at least respond here if you revert it back - that's basic courtesy.

Cheers, Greglo (talk) 06:53, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

There were several problems with how you were editing it in. We have no idea if GS or the TweakGuide sites did it wrong or not, and we cannot go on WP accusing them of not testing it properly. Additionally, we don't need how to say to switch between one mode and another. That said, I have added a couple of the above to note that there are water and particle effect differences, but outside of these, as noted by the first guide, these are subtle differences and do not interfere with the game. --MASEM 12:35, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

OK thanks mate. I did think it was a bit odd to include the info about the switch. Obviously I would like it in, but you did a good job; just what I wanted to say - a small, notable difference, but a subtle one. Cheers, Greglo (talk) 09:12, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

FMOD

FMOD should be added to the engine section. I'd do it but anonymous users can't edit and I don't feel like creating an account just to add it. -68.127.103.81 (talk) 10:05, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Philosophy

Philosophy is mentioned in the intro paragraph, but almost nothing is mentioned in the article. Things like the "No gods or kings here, only men." banner in the lighthouse and "A man creates. A parasite asks `Where is my share?`" really clear it up for someone who has never played the game and doesn't know anything about Ayn Rand or Objectivism.75.121.36.237 (talk) 15:53, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Arbiter099

I believe that is why a user above linked to several critical anaylses, so that someone would have a source to add this. xenocidic (talk) 16:18, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I just remembered some thing:the fifth of Novemeber. Rapture was completed on Nov. 5,1946 is this relavent?75.121.36.237 (talk) 16:21, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Arbiter099

Setting or story?

The setting section reads more like a Prolauge than telling about Rapture itself. I propose moving this information to the story section.75.121.36.237 (talk) 17:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Arbiter099

True, it does work like a prologue, but it tells the events leading up to the player's arrival at Rapture. So, it does give the setting of how Rapture is "now" without giving away too much. ~QuasiAbstract (talk/contrib) 09:50, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Bioshock Demo installs SecuROM

It seems that even the official PC Demo installs SecuROM, although it is nor required to activate or play the game (WinFuture.de (german)). Here is a guide to removing it: How I removed Securom from registry (obtained from Demo, of all things!) 62.216.218.206 (talk) 09:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Alternative history?

Really? It was my understanding that alternative history involved fiction where the world is drastically altered from the present day. Bioshock presents a hidden city set within our world having continued as it had all along. Like Stephen King. The Stand, wherein most of the world is killed by superflu, is an alternate history since it didn't happen. Misery, about a writer trapped with a crazy woman, while fictional, is entirely plausible within our own world. Not in an alternate history. Otherwise, every single bit of fiction has no bearing on our world because it's all alternate.71.177.146.204 (talk) 23:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

From Wikipedia's article Alternate History: "Alternate history or alternative history[1] is a subgenre of speculative fiction (or some would say science fiction) and historical fiction that is set in a world in which history has diverged from history as it is generally known." All this says is diverged. Not drastically. So, under THIS description, Bioshock would be in an alternate history (unless someone finds out that a play crashed in the middle of the Atlantic near a mysterious lighthouse, then it might not be so alternate). So, while the background of Bioshock is not much different than history as we know it, it still would be considered an alternate history. ~QuasiAbstract (talk/contrib) 07:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

No, under that description EVERY bit of fiction is set in an alternate history.71.177.146.204 (talk) 06:29, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Bioshock is not alternative history at all. The events in the game (with possibly the exception of the 'bad' ending) do not have any bearing or relation to the history of the time period it is set in. If you can call Bioshock alternative history then you might as well call Sherlock Holmes or any work set in a certain time period "alternative history". History has not diverged at all in Bioshock. If, say, Jack returned to the surface and gave plasmid technology to the USSR and upset the balance in the Cold War then you could say it is alternative history. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 16:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

More from Alternative history: While to some extent all fiction can be described as "alternate history," the subgenre proper comprises fiction in which a change or point of divergence occurs in the past that causes human society to develop in a way that is distinct from our own.

I think the question isn't, can we deduce from our knowledge of the game and the definition on that page, whether BioShock is or is not alternative history, but, which reliable sources describe BioShock as alternative history? SHEFFIELDSTEEL^TALK 17:23, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

The plot of Boshock doesn't fit that desciption at all, Shef. On the rest, it's hard to gage. Most of the places that do either use the Wikipedia description which speaks to lazy copy writers more than critically thinking about the game itself. So either they're copying wikipedia, or wikipedia is verboten copying someone else without crediting them. And none of this speaks to the fact that if fifty websites say "The Golden Gate Bridge is a distinctive hue of green," it still doesn't make it so and would be poor to use as "reliable sources."71.177.146.204 (talk) 06:27, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Personally I do not think BioShock qualifies as alternative history; that's why I posted the excerpt above. But my opinion is worthless; what matters is what the sources say. Incidentally, I think you meant to say verbatim which is Latin for "word-by-word", rather than verboten, which is German for "forbidden". Sorry if this sounds patronising; it's meant to be helpful! SHEFFIELDSTEEL^TALK 19:50, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

As said, the sources all use an almost identical text which refers pretty much to nothing. Sound and fury and all that.71.177.146.204 (talk) 05:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

References bug

Maybe it's just on my machine (I'm running Firefox 2 on Windows XP), but the references section on my computer is all "jumbled-looking" (for lack of a better term) after reference #73. Anyone else see it? If so, anyone know how to fix it? :) RobertM525 (talk) 06:38, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Problem fixed. --Silver Edge (talk) 06:55, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Semi-Protected

Anyone know why this article is semi-protected? I would like to make a couple minor edits (For instance, I think the word "both" in the sentence "Three endings are possible depending on how the player interacted with the Little Sisters, both narrated by Dr. Tennenbaum" is grammatically incorrect) but I didn't have an account until I created one just now, and it's not autoconfirmed. Rfschmid (talk) 19:41, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

You'll be able to edit the page in a few days. And you're right about the "both:" it should be "all." I'll leave it for you to fix once you can edit. :) · AndonicO ^Engage. 19:47, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Alternative Endings

I think the paragraph about the different possible endings (currently the last paragraph in the "story" section) needs a little work. It claims there are three possible endings:

- "If the player only rescued the Little Sisters"
- "If the player harvested (and therefore killed) more than two of the Little Sisters"
- "If the player harvested all of the Little Sisters"

This leaves the reader (me) confused about what happens if the player harvests one or two Little Sisters. If I could edit the page (see my other comment above) I would try to find another source that explains the different endings and fix this up. Could someone either allow me to edit the page or take a look and fix this up themselves? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rfschmid (talk • contribs) 19:55, 24 May 2008 (UTC)