User talk:DustyRain

WebTrain Communications

A tag has been placed on WebTrain Communications, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be blatant advertising that only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the general criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 11, as well as the guidelines on spam.

If you can indicate why the subject of this article is not blatant advertising, you may contest the tagging. To do this, please add {{hangon}} on the top of WebTrain Communications and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would help make it encyclopedic, as well as adding any citations from reliable sources to ensure that the article will be verifiable. Feel free to leave a note on User talk:RHaworth if you have any questions about this.

Note: The message above was not posted here to your talk page as a courtesy when user RHaworth nominated your article for speedy deletion.

The article was deleted as per WP:CSD#G11. — Athaenara ✉ 23:15, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of WebTrain

A tag has been placed on WebTrain, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be blatant advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read our the guidelines on spam as well as the Wikipedia:Business' FAQ for more information.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. tgies (talk) 06:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Your recent edits

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Welcome!

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Happy editing! Just saw your request at EA. Still a little advertisement-y, in my opinion, and I think restructuring the article will do a lot to offset that. If you don't mind, I'm going to be rather brisk and hope you trust me ;-) First, the lead:

WebTrain Communications is a privately held company that has provided on-demand hosted web conferencing services for 7 years.

7 years from when? When was "for 7 years" written?

The WebTrain software runs as an embedded object within a web browser to provide hosted web conferencing services for different vertical markets.

It's best to make it explicit that WebTrain Communications makes software. And what's a vertical market? Is that relevant to the software or the company? I'd write:

WebTrain Communications is a privately-held company established in 199x that hosts web conferences intended for vertical markets. The software it uses for conferencing is developed in-house, and runs inside a browser.

Finally, the lead should establish notability. The PC Mag article is dated 2002, so I'd choose something more recent; BCTIA red-links, so that's not the best option... However, your website has good testimonials. As long as a well-known institution is saying "wow!". It wraps up the lead pretty nice, too.

Then the ==History== header: avoid lists like the plague; far better if it can be rendered to prose (but avoid prose-lists, too, like "In 2001, blahblahblah. In 2002, blahblahblah. In 2003, blahblahblah, blahblahblah. In 2004, blarg".). Avoid "as of"s if you can, and avoid stating versions unless they're milestones. I'd also move the text in ==Vertical market focus== into history, as it is relevant to the history of the company insofar as it says where the company is getting its money from. Expand on business models, and why they're relevant to the company and its customers (and a good idea: who are the customers, and how has this technology helped them. This is challenging, because you cannot write testimonials into an encyclopedia)

{{helpme}} To clarify your suggestion regarding business models, do you mean detailing vertical market solutions or detailing our usage plans? (For example, liek WebEx, we have solutions for webinars, for support rooms, for remote control, etc). Or do you mean detailing our different usage plans such as pay-as-you-go, per seat plans, contracted rate subscriptions, exclusive country wide licensing and in-house based licensed server models?) Gary WebTrain (talk) 19:01, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Write it like you have nothing to do with it is the very best advice, though :-) If you have any questions or complaints, I'm always here :-) I have this on my watchlist, too, so you can reply here. Xavexgoem (talk) 11:26, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

This is such good advice. I'll work on it today. Question 1: Is it a acceptable to ask people that do not have a COI to participate? Question 2: When the article is ready, can my user talk page be moved to the article page to identify contributors and edit history? Gary WebTrain (talk) 14:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

To question 1, of course :-) It's the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, after all. Probably won't even have to ask.

To question 2... to do that, you have to move the page; there's a tab for that. If you've been here for more than 4 days under this account, you should be able to move a page. To be honest, I've been here a while and have never moved a page, so I don't know the exact mechanics, but I'm pretty sure what you'll want to do is move your userpage to WebTrain or something similar. This will copy the content from your userpage to a newly created page, and your userpage will become a redirect, i.e., "#REDIRECT WebTrain" will be the only text on your userpage... you will need to remove this to prevent your userpage from redirecting to an article (not good). There's also the option to move the talk page with it, but I don't think that that's a good idea... probably better just to copy/paste everything in that instance. But don't worry about q2 until you're done editing.

I'll ask around about page moves... These type of things tend to have a GFDL stipulation somewhere somehow, but I may be wrong. Xavexgoem (talk) 15:25, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I modified my user page as per your suggestions. I have invited a few credible people who do not have COI issues to provide content suggestions and comments to this discussion as well as requested them to edit my user page, etc. I have stressed the importance of NPOV, factual referenced content only. I also requested that they confirm their contributions with our "encylopedian" (you). Gary WebTrain (talk) 17:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

No reason for it to go through me, at least in that sense... as you've noticed, the tendency on wiki's is for things to explicitly fail and implicitly pass. That's what consensus is. If something fails, like an edit, it gets reverted or revised. If an edit passes... it just passes. Can't tell something's wrong 'til someone else comes along.

I suppose this is advice for people who've made a bit of a career editing Wikipedia, though. I'm just saying nothing needs to go through me, as I may end up editing out mistakes and all that stuff anyway :-) Xavexgoem (talk) 19:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Response to your message

→ In re: deletion of WebTrain Communications and Webtrain articles.

I saw your email messages today — I check that account only about once a week, if that — and your text with infobox and references seems, upon cursory review, to be a good start on building a Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines-compliant article about your company. I haven't deleted the email, but if you've retained your own copy of what you sent you won't need my copy.

I'm happy to see that you've been following through with your intentions on site here. User Xavexgoem has been giving you good advice above; there is also Wikipedia:Deletion review, which you will have seen if you read Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion (linked in both deletion notifications above).

Please understand the context of my deletion: admins, "given the mop" for cleanup, check things like Category:Candidates for speedy deletion and follow through as appropriately as possible.

The primary requirements are that your article be written in compliance with the following:

• the Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) guideline
• the Wikipedia:Neutral point of view policy

Good luck. — Athaenara ✉ 19:19, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. The links you provided noted Wikipedia has inclusion standards for companies. The basic requirement is that multiple independent sources must have written non-trivial amounts of information about a company before a Wikipedia article on that company is appropriate. This requirement helps ensure there's actually enough neutral and factual information to write a proper article. The good news is that there are plenty of 3rd party credible reviews and content about our product on the web, so it looks good from that perspective. Gary WebTrain (talk) 20:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

{{helpme}} is there any way to format paragraphs so there is slightly more space between them ? Gary WebTrain (talk) 05:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Just put an extra blank line between the paragaphs.

You can force a blank line by entering <br> if you like, but it's usually not necessary.

Remember that the way wikipedia is displayed depends on the users browser settings, so it's usually best not to worry too much about formatting - let the user take care of it. This makes documents more compatible, for example for people reading it with special software to deal with disabilities (blind etc) - so, basically, leave the formatting as plain as possible, unless there's a very good reason not to. --62.56.88.56 (talk) 05:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Regarding webtrain - I think you'll find it very difficult to get this article to a suitable state for inclusion on wikipedia. A cursory google search makes me think it will be hard to establish any kind of notability. Please do study WP:NOTABLE, WP:COI and WP:SPAM

Consider contributing to other articles, perhaps?

--62.56.88.56 (talk) 05:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Welcome

P.P.S.

It looks like nobody has given you much guidance, so I thought I'd post this. note, particularly, the part about a sandbox - it might help you in your endeavours.

Best wishes,

Welcome...

Hello, Gary WebTrain, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! 62.56.88.56 (talk) 05:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Recent History Edits and Notability

I modifed history, I added a reference to the Robin Good article, from masternewmedia.org, they perform very deep product reviews of major web conferencing products, it should be a notable reference. I know there's been other reviews as well and easily found references such as: Veterans Training Center http://www.myvbtc.org/portal/students/class.php, EWB http://itsupport.ewb.ca/blog/frequently-asked-questions/webtrain-questions/, Notable Technologies section in Educational Technology presentation http://www.educationaltechnology.ca/couros/presentation_files/PAA-NewTechnologies.ppt, Charter Oak State College http://www.ctdlc.org/courseoffer/syllabi/ACFB809.doc, Brandon Hall Research Paper - Tools for Developing Online Training - page 100 - http://courseware.hbs.edu/demo/new_wave/EmergingTechnologies10-31-06.pdf, Integrated reseller example at http://nettraffix.com/?page=features, CDO Group integration at http://www.cdogroup.com/, etc) so I'll check with wiki advisors as to what references would be best. Note we are also mentioned in a Frost and Sullivan eb Conferencing publication, but the publication is private and fee based ($4500). Our V3 join development (as detailed in history) relating to the F10 company can be found at a public URL, unfortunately, we are bound by security policies to not disclose it. arrrg. I'll have to check with legal or seek special permission for a reference on that, as the company is one of the largest in the world.

For my collegues working on this article, some of which are from provincial universities (see page page 57 of http://www.sasked.gov.sk.ca/branches/elearning/2005-06_site_guide.pdf), Sask Library Association (SLA) continuing education (http://www.lib.sk.ca/sla/Education/cecommitteeinfo.html), University of Regina (http://www.uregina.ca/cce/offcampus/distance/education/ecmp455.htm), and other professional organizations, perhaps content on your site about WebTrain could include more notable content. Same for Purple hearts, Engineers without Borders, both being NP's, expanding your content about WebTrain on your site would be good. Gary WebTrain (talk) 17:48, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Unverified - Citation needed

Content from user page below was moved to talk page - citation / verification is needed:

The version 2 product release sparked interest from a Fortune 10 communications company to co-jointly develop version 3.[citation needed] After 2 years of joint development, and 6 months of testing and security reviews performed by the F10 company and IBM security, a completely new client version (with C# .NET based meeting servers) was released. The F10 company has since used the product for 4 years to host over 500,000 meetings.

I'd hold back a bit on the details of the software. No need to be too detailed :-) Xavexgoem (talk) 08:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

But on the other hand, it's pretty good atm. If you think it's good and done, I'll make some copy-edits and further suggestions, if you wish (I might be so bold as to remove things, though ;-) Xavexgoem (talk) 09:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)