Talk:Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction

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Noteworthy French fiction

The French novel Ravage, by René Barjavel, could usefully feature in that article. Its theme of a new patriarcal society relates to the French occupation and reaction during the WW2 (the novel was written in 1942). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.204.115.66 (talk) 04:30, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

A few comments

28 Days Later isn't exactly about the end of the world since it's clear in the end that only the UK is affected. That can perhaps be stated in a note afterwards or something?

Also, I find it strange that the new version of Dawn of the Dead is under Pandemic while Romero's original and his other movies are under "The decline and fall of the human race". I see the zombie infection as a pandemic in all of those movies and not an effect of social events or something.

Well, the Romero films aren't even sure if their mode of zombie is from cosmic radiation or some sort of virus. Since many of the corpses in the Romero films, aside from those torn apart, tend to reanimate without being bitten by zombies (the best examples would be in LOTD, with the hanging man reanimating and Blades, who was killed at the end of the original Dawn). The zombies in the new Dawn are definitely from a pandemic, as there are cases where people are killed uninfected humans, either accidentally or on purpose, and they do not reanimate.

I believe I added the 1978 Dawn as "Decline" as it is more of a decline of the human race, the reason being was that is that human society is on the cusp of the collapse at the beginning of the film and begins to gradually breakdown, as opposed to the pandemic striking overnight in the remake.

However, you are correct about 28 Days Later. I've mentioned this before. I've been thinking of moving this to "Various" or "To Be Catagorized". While it lacks the world-ending scope of many of the entries, I will not deny that it has apocalyptic elements.--YoungFreud 02:30, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I see your point about the Romero films. I don't think "28 days later" needs to be moved though, since there are other works in the list who seem to concentrate on the downfall of a specific geographical area. El-topo 21:23, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Apocalyptic vs. post-apocalyptic

It seems to me that we sould probably divide these two topics, it would resolve questions of what is viable on the list. technically, apocalyptic fiction is any fiction wherein the world and/or civilization is close to destruction, post-apocalyptic concerns what happens thereafter. (even though, ironically, for it to be a true apocalypse, there would have to be no one left at all; therefore post-apocalyptic is really not even a valid genre) at least this is my impression. thoughts? Gizzakk 18:18, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't think any definition of apocalypse mandates the elimination of every single human being. Anyway, I think it makes sense to lump them together, what unites them is that the destruction of human civilization, whether ongoing or in the past, is a core theme. Christopher Parham (talk) 09:34, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Title

Would anyone oppose moving this to Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction (ie. remove the "science")? It's pretty clear that a large number of these articles are not science fiction, at least how it's described on Wikipedia -- for instance The Day After. Christopher Parham (talk) 09:34, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

source?

"Due to the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in its modern past, Japanese popular culture is rife with apocalyptic themes. Much of Japan's manga and anime is loaded with apocalyptic imagery." Anybody cite source?

Funny you should mention this because I've been meaning to expand it. The source actually comes from Little Boy by Takashi Murakami. I really want to expand the paragraph, because the chapter that has a discussion between Gainax founder Toshio Okada and Kaichiro Morikawa about how Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings and the subsequent American occupation resulted in a Japan basically reduced to a child-like status in the geopolitical sense, and caused the Japanese mass consciousness to transform things that were difficult to deal with into things that were cute, so they could be easier to cope with.

This in turn lead to the apocalyptic worldview of the otaku subculture, such as the radiation bombardment in Yamato and the devastation shown in Gundam and Macross. Later on, Aum Shinrikyo, who recruited from the ranks of otaku by interweaving their philosophy with the imagery shown in manga and anime, would later use sarin gas in an attempt to start their apocalypse. This would result in a paradigm shift away from the overtly apocalyptic imagery of previous anime to moé, a supercute and highly fetishized form that dominates the otaku subculture today.--YoungFreud 14:59, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Cowboy Bebop?

The anime Cowboy Bebop is about a team of bounty hunters in the future. In the year that the anime is set in, Mars and other planets have been colonized but Earth is desolate and most of it's residents have left it due to the Gate Accident many years earlier, causing a meteorite falls every two days, changing the landscape. Couldn't this therefore classify under post-apocalyptic? --Isequals 01:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Should already be there. If it not, it was once listed under Astronomic impact (meteorites). In fact, looking over the history, it was removed somewhere between June 13, 2005 and October 13th, 2005. --YoungFreud 01:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes I'd say that the series fits, in the sense that the setting is far post-apoc, seeing as several episodes are set on the Earth and the backstory is mentioned several times, but not during the event or near post event. Robovski 02:12, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Titles added

Post apocalypse (WW III) literature:

• Magic City (Nelson S. Bond) a novella (?) set in post-atomic war New York City.
• Star Man's Son (Andre Norton)
• Dear Devil (Eric Frank Russell)

I'll try to think of some others; there are "scads" (many).

Also, if "After the fall of space-based civilization" is a category, the floodgates are wide-open. Just for a start, there's Against the Fall of Night and The City and the Stars (both by Arthur C. Clarke); The Mote in God's Eye (Niven & Pournelle); The Dragon Masters (Jack Vance) (and arguably his The Last Castle); and Chad Oliver's poignant Transfusion.

OTOH, maybe we should just pick a few representative samples for each category, rather than trying to make up an exhaustive list. --ChrisWinter 21:25, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm really thinking of making a and off-shooting most of the list there. I'd also like to merge the cosy catastrophe article, much like the Ruined Earth article was. Much of that article could be posted in it's own section on the page or in the criticism section. BTW, I'm wondering if the Dying Earth subgenre might need to be moved here as well.--YoungFreud 05:05, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Titles of other media

Movies: mad max, waterworld and will smiths newest one? games: post apocalyptic is maybe a even more popular theme here than in any other media, for example the Fallout series

Halo

This may just be me, but I do not see how halo is post-apocalyptic

Caught. I've gone ahead and corrected the entry. We've had it added occasionally because of competition with Half-Life 2, which is definitely an example of post-apocalyptic fiction, as it's set 10 years after an alien occupation.--YoungFreud 23:59, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

However, with the events of Halo 3, and the hints of a galaxy-wide apocalypse, the Halo franchise might actually be post-apocalyptic as well as apocalyptic. -- Nils Jeppe 14:51, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Torg

I'd say TORG should go into the religious / supernatural category, as the High Lords use supernatural forces to invade Earth (their powers derive from the Darkness Devices, which were created by the Nameless One to fight creation and possibility). -- Nils Jeppe 14:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Cell

I think Stephen King's novel Cell should be in this list (the story focuses on a sort of virus transmitter by cell phone signals, and anyone who uses a cell phone becomes insane and cannibalistic (zombie-ish, though these people are still alive, as in the movie 28 Days Later)). I'm not sure what category to put this novel under. --RazorICE 10:07, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Certainly apocalyptic considering modern civilization collapses in the story.

-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.231.135.156 (talk) 05:43, August 23, 2007 (UTC)

This article is a List

This article as it is should be renamed "List of Apocalyptic and Post Apocalyptic Fiction", and leave room for an article actually describing the genre, its origins, etc.--SidiLemine 13:37, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, there is an article at the top... but the list has certainly taken over since my edits last year. I would agree with separating the list into its own topic and leaving the article text here. Dan 05:06, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll second the motion that the ever burgeoning list be split from the article. I'm probably more of a recent wikipedian than most here - How much of a consensus do we need before making the split? -- Rydra Wong 01:03, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll support the move of the list to a seperate page - so long as the very useful list is kept and linked from the main article. Robovski 02:59, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

List of doomsday scenarios

Could use votes to save this article, thanks MapleTree 22:15, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Alternate future

Just letting the editors of this article know that there is a discussion on Talk:Alternate future about the encyclopedicness of that article that I think editors of apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction might be interested in participating in. —Lowellian (reply) 21:54, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Importance

Post-apocalyptic fiction was a major genre back in the 1960s and '70s. I would rate this article as Mid importance. Avt tor 03:19, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge from Post-holocaust

Support, post-apocalyptic is more common terms and Holocaust has different connotations.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:57, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Support, it's the same topic under a different name. Noclevername 00:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Merged. Christopher Parham (talk) 02:18, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Atom Bomb in 1895???

"The first atomic weapon in fiction appeared in Robert Cromie's "The Crack of Doom", published in 1895" This line cannot be accurate...right?Mwv2 02:04, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Apocalyptic fiction category

Why isn't there a Category:Apocalyptic fiction? Almost every film, book and TV series about an alien invasion fits the category. Also, all these of the "eschatological fiction" genre.--Nohansen 21:06, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

In Category:Science fiction genres there is Category:Post-apocalyptic fiction which gets a lot of what you're thinking about. --lquilter 21:22, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

So Category:Post-apocalyptic fiction is meant for post-apocalyptic and apocalyptic fiction? If so, it should be renamed to encourage editors to use it.

Once, I placed this article I'm working in that category but decided against because it didn't seem right. The series is about the events leading to the end of the world, not the aftermath.--Nohansen 21:30, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

And where does the "Planet of the Apes" fit into post-apocalyptic fiction? I'm amazed this body of work has been overlooked —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.27.11.89 (talk) 10:26, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

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"Ancient predecessors" section

A paragraph containing completely unsourced research regarding Biblical apocalyptica was just re-added with the following rationale:

that PA is inspited by biblical acounts in uncontroversial, and that the Bible contains descriptions of them

Our inclusion criterion is not controversiality, it is verifiability. If a section remains unsourced despite being flagged for sources, then there's nothing wrong with removing it. Either sources should be found soon or this paragraph removed again. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 16:13, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Wooo, that is some crappy typing on the edit summary! I'll add something tonight. From my understanding, the verifiability policy means things need to be possible to verify, and only controversial points must be cited. The removal was the first time it has ever been challanged, and everyone that reads knows it to be true (and it needs about 10 minutes on google to get sources), which is why i re-added it.16:18, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Nope - sources should be provided for anything which is remotely non-obvious; controversial material can (and should) be removed on sight without prejudice, but any unsourced material is fair game if it doesn't look likely to be improved. Without sources, the paragraph reads like speculation. It'll be fine once it's sourced though. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 16:49, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Guess we just differ on what is obvious in this :-). But i started adding sources for biblical influence at least.Yobmod (talk) 17:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

No Biblical material can be considered to be obvious. The thing is, however, 2000 years old, which should make finding reliable secondary sources for it pretty easy. Thanks for the refs; this looks good. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 00:34, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Some of that book is also on googlebooks, if anyone wants to add more stuff. I expect an entire book about Apoc fic would source the whole article up to FA.Yobmod (talk) 09:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

History

I started this to improve the history or; well, anyway, I have an idea on something I think should be added to 'Ancient Predecessors':

• Something on Central-American (Ancient-American, whatver) would be nice (even though technically they didin't influence much), since some of their myths involve... what? 7 acopalypses? Not science fictioney, I know, but I think this should at least be noted.

7h3 3L173 (talk) 05:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Major Problem

While surfing the internet I stumbled across something all you will find very interesting. [1]

if you clicked the link and looked at the page you will realize that either the author of this wiki page plagiarized this ENTIRE article or this web site. In either case, proper action must be taken. 

--Kurtcool2 (talk) 03:25, 12 January 2009 (UTC)