User talk:Sarandioti

Madness

Welcome; please say hello

Welcome

Hi, Sarandioti. This is NOT some automated message...it's from a real person. You can talk to me right now. Welcome to Wikipedia! I noticed you've just joined, and wanted to give you a few tips to get you started. If you have any questions, please talk to us. The tips below should help you to get started. Best of luck!  Chzz  ►  22:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

ようこそ You don't need to read anything - anybody can edit; just go to an article and edit it. Be Bold, but please don't put silly stuff in - it will be removed very quickly, and will annoy people. Ask for help. Talk to us live, or edit this page, put {{helpme}} and describe what help you need. Someone will reply very quickly - usually within a few minutes. Play in your user area. For example, create User:Sarandioti/test. Edit existing articles, before you make your own. Look at some subjects that you know about, and see if you can make them a bit better. For example, Wikipedia:Cleanup#2009. When you're ready, read about Your first article. It should be about something well-known, and it will need references. Good luck with editing; please drop me a line some time on my own talk page. There's lots of information below. Once again, welcome to the fantastic world of Wikipedia! --  Chzz  ►  22:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Grade sources • Cite sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists • Best articles Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Pages needing attention • Peer review The missing manual

IRC

Hey,

It was great to chat with you; hope we'll be seeing you again.

I thought it might be helpful if I coped in some of the many things we discussed, so that you have the links if you ever need 'em;

• WP:TIND (There is no deadline)
• William Windsor (goat)
• WP:ANI - to report serious problems, such as racism
• WP:FA Featured articles - we mentined 1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy
• WP:PUMP Village pump; good place to get community input
• Goatse
• Wikipedia:Systemic bias
• Wikipedia:NOT#Wikipedia is not a democracy
• Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy
• Flying Spaghetti Monster
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Earth (2nd nomination)
• WP:TIGER
• WP:SPIDER

Cheers,  Chzz  ►  14:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 22:42, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi

Pershendetje patriot, si e kam Saranden?Balkanian`s word (talk) 10:22, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Shume mire eshte Saranda vella faleminderit. Ti si je? Shkon mire zhvillimi i Wikipedias Shqiptare?--Sarandioti (talk) 10:25, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Lere mos e pyet, shume pak veta dhe shumica prej nesh nuk kemi kohe :-). Duhet te njihemi edhe une nga sr jam.Balkanian`s word (talk) 11:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Msn ke vella? Te flasim per disa ceshtje, dhe zhvillimin e wikipedias Shqiptare. Po ke me dergo e-mail.--Sarandioti (talk) 11:48, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Kam me jep adresen tende te te bej add.Balkanian`s word (talk) 12:22, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Kam te "hapur" setting qe jep mundesine te me dergojne email. Ma dergo msn-in tend me email. Ketu e shikojne shume, prandaj spo e ve--Sarandioti (talk) 13:07, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Shih

Ej, hidhi nje sy kesaj. Kam shume kohe qe po e pergatis, po nuk e kam mbaruar akoma.Balkanian`s word (talk) 15:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Azis Tahir Ajdonati

Hi, have you some english speaking book/source that mentions him (the same with Jakup Veseli)?Alexikoua (talk) 10:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The particular reference is one of the most reliable on certain issues. However, even if we didnt have a source, it is clear that he is from Paramythia. Check his surname, it is Ajdonati, he took it from the Albanian name of Paramythia. Have a nice day.--Sarandioti (talk) 11:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

You are relying on a 19th century work (1861), there was an consensus about outdated sources. Kountouriotis was Arvanite, according to more reliable sources mentioned on the Arvanites article. Alexikoua (talk) 11:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Kountrouriotis was indeed an Arvanite, which is NOT mentioned in the article. For the time being do not revert anything. I'll find a more "approriate" means to include that he was arvanite --Sarandioti (talk) 11:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

you have rendered the article unreadable, no problem with the unreferenced setences. i added the Despotate's foundation+ deleted Aidonati. Would be interested if he is mentioned in a english speaking source. Alexikoua (talk) 11:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

why dont u give an inline? that's why i deleted your uncomfirmed claim, seems you always are not used to cooperate. If u mean this language was spoken by a (uncomfirmed) number of inhabitants that lived in the area, its a clear pov pushing and doesn't need to be mentioned on the template. In that region lived or passed also: Italian, Latin, Vlach, Bulgarian, Serbian, Arabian, Turkish, French, Aromanian speakers.Alexikoua (talk) 09:41, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

The Albanians were one of the main groups living in epirus, my source is totally valid. You have no right to remove it. I see no POV here, as Albanians were a main group of the area.--Sarandioti (talk) 09:53, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Why dont u relax? The stuff you are reading is brain damaging you, be carefull. Alexikoua (talk) 20:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Preveza, Arta

To add the Albanian name of a town in the lead, there have to be native speakers of the language linving there. That is not the case in Arta and Preveza, so please stop this nonsense. WP:NCGN is crystal-clear in this case. Your reference is a medieval history book, which is irrelevant and proves nothing. --Athenean (talk) 21:44, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Cham Albanians lived even in those areas, so the same rules that apply to Paramythia, Margariti, Philiates etc. apply to them --Sarandioti (talk) 21:47, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Nope, they didn't. You don't have a reference for that anyway, and Chams don't live there now. The only reason I agreed to leave the Albanian name in the lead for Igoumenitsa is because there is a reference that mentions that Albanian speakers still live there now. This is not the case for Preveza, and certainyl not Arta. --Athenean (talk) 21:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

As I said same rules that apply to Margariti, Igoumenitsa, Philiates, Paramythia aply to Arta, Preveza, Janina. Would you like the issue to be moderated by a third party? --Sarandioti (talk) 21:51, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

There were never large numbers of Chams in Preveza, Arta, and Ioannina. Repeating yourself over and over won't help. If we go by your logic, we should also add the Greek name in Korytsa, Vlore, Durres, etc... These articles were perfectly stable before you came in. --Athenean (talk) 21:57, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Sarandioti if u r righ, this means that on the same basis Greek names should be added in a number of modern Albanian cities in which Greeks lived ones. Well, I believe the Jicerek line leaves only Shkodra outside the Greek-speaking zone. Alexikoua (talk) 22:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I think you did not understand what I said, I suggested that the Albanian names should be added as these areas were part of the Albanian principalities and the Cameria region. As for your comments there is a complete difference between nationality/usage of language/religion. The Jirecek line is related not to languge of inhabitants but to sphere of influence/power. Claiming that south of the jirecek line all people were speaking greek as their mother tongue is the same as claiming that north of the line they were all latin speakers. I believe I am clear. Best Regards. --Sarandioti (talk) 22:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

and what language was official in the byzantine empire in which epirus nova/illyrica greaca was a province? let me guess Alexikoua (talk) 10:22, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Alexikua the issue has been clarified by the intervention of the admin in the 3RR report against you. No further discussion is necessary.(2 admins already have supported what I added)--Sarandioti (talk) 10:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Lale

Si te kam Saranda ;)? Digjo shiko mos mblidhemi njehere ketu [1] Mos bejme ndonje gje te hajrit,nejse flasim.--Taulant23 (talk) 21:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Patjeter ja do hap nje llogari atje dhe hidhi nje sy kesaj harte.[2] --Taulant23 (talk) 23:02, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Greek names, Albanian names

Sarandioti my friend, what is it you are trying to do here? I mean, really. Do you think your campaign to remove every single Greek name from cities in southern Albania, and to add the Albanian name of every single Greek city in Ipiros, has even the slightest chance of success? It is as hopeless as it is nationalistic. Like it or not, there are Greek Wikipedians on the English Wikipedia. Lots of them. With lots of experience and a good command of the English Language. With these articles watchlisted. And they are not going anywhere. So, take this as a friendly suggestion, please stop this madness. If you chose to continue down this path, it will only lead to a quick exit from wikipedia. --Athenean (talk) 00:58, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Athenean you are accusing me, without any valid reasons. I added names only in Cham inhabited areas, while you try to add names in towns with no significant greek populations, with methods like "the name x comes from the greek name x". And I didnt remove your attempts, I just told you to add them below.--Sarandioti (talk) 08:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

June 2009

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for 3RR violation. You are welcome to make useful contributions after the block expires. If you believe this block is unjustified you may contest this block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}} below.

At Sarandë, per a complaint at the 3RR noticeboard. EdJohnston (talk) 14:01, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Sarandioti (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

I was blocked for breaking the 3RR rule. Alexikua accused me of making more than 3 reverts on the same day in Paramythia article BUT if you see * 1st revert: [3] * 2nd revert: [4] * 3rd revert: [5] * 4th revert: [6] 1 and 2: 6/06/2009 3 and 4: 7/06/2009 so how exactly did I break the 3RR rule? I did not make more than 3 reverts on the same day. ALexikua tried to manipulate this, so I believe that he should be blocked for this. I did not break the rule.--Sarandioti (talk) 14:19, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Decline reason:

The rule is clearly for a 24 hour period; not a physical day. Regardless, the pattern of edit warring is disturbing and would warrant action even if it did not technically break the rule. Please consider limiting yourself to discussion on talk pages after your block expires until you have a better feel for how to work with others in contested articles. Thanks. Kuru ^talk 15:19, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Comment on block

Hello, I'm the admin who closed the 3RR case. The 3RR violation was on the Sarandë article. Though there was a general pattern of revert warring by Sarandioti on the language issue, I did not have to rely on that for my conclusion, since the four reverts within 24 hours on Sarandë were quite clear. EdJohnston (talk) 14:32, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I did not know that the 3RR was based on 24 hours system. I thought that it was related to date, rather than amount of hours. Could you plese unblock me since I did not know its exact function. If I knew that it refered to 24 hours, I would not break the rule. --Sarandioti (talk) 15:32, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Can you explain how you knew so much about Wikipedia when you first arrived here? I assume you are a reincarnation of an experienced editor. EdJohnston (talk) 16:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Not really. I just studied the templates before starting to write, and also talked to some experienced editors in the help channel. About my appeal: Could you please unblock me? I didnt know that 3RR was related to a 24 hours basis, and thoguht that it actually refers to date. I dont like reverting other peoples' edits, but look what Alexikua added now that I'm blocked in the Berat article. He added 3 names. If we take a closer we will see that Bulcheriopolis and Antipatrea are medieval and ancient greek names, therefore they are in contrast to the WP:Usage of Modern Names, and he also added a greek version of the Albanian name Berat as Βερατιον. However, there is no greek community in Berat, something that is clear in the article. I am blocked because of a mistaken interpretation of the rule, but the one who reported me did this, in order to promote his nationalist beliefs, as long as I am blocked. --Sarandioti (talk) 16:53, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Note to admins: He also has 5RR in Paramythia. This is an extremely disruptive user with a battleground mentality. His contribs log reveals nothing but edit-warring over the past few days. --Athenean (talk) 17:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

And I have a 24 hour block for my mistakes, because I did not fully understand the 3RR policy. But you who are much longer than me here, wrote to me just because I moved a picture to another section and replaced it with a more proper one, Athenian: (rv because 1) that is one ugly-ass picture. What does this show about you? You say that my log reveals nothing more than edit-warring. I ahve contributed to many other artciles, but lets see your log for these days: reverts, reverts, and personal attacks against other editors. --Sarandioti (talk) 18:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Sarandioti, if you come back and continue editing as you were before, you probably will not last very long on Wikipedia. Since you have some knowledge of Albanian issues and viewpoints, I urge you to try being diplomatic for a change. You are editing articles subject to WP:ARBMAC in a very belligerent manner and you are missing no opportunity to promote the Albanian cause. What kind of a future are you expecting here? WP:ARBMAC says: Wikipedia is a project to create a neutral encyclopedia. Use of the site for other purposes—including, but not limited to, advocacy, propaganda, furtherance of outside conflicts, and political or ideological struggle—is prohibited. EdJohnston (talk) 18:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

And I 100% try to maintain that. But that has to be maintained by all parties. I added one proper picture and just because I moved the modified version of the object in a lower section, the editor Athenian wrote to among others rv because 1) that is one ugly-ass picture. I did not react. Shouldnt he be awarded a block for such comments? And of course now that I am blocked for 24h I cannot report him. So since you are here, could please tell me what should be done? --Sarandioti (talk) 18:16, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Please, this is not a right wiki attitude, Saradioti... just the time u r unblocked u start to make the same reverts, without any discussion at any level. What should I conclude about?Alexikoua (talk) 16:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

That is not true at all Alexikoua, because you knew WHY they would get remvoed eventually. You know that they are in contrast to WP:Useage of modern names, and the fact that in those areas there are no greek populations explaining the greek name. Did I revert Himara? No. Did Athenian re-add a whole section whose removal we all decided except him? Yes. You absolutely know that YOU(and Athenian) are vandalising articles, but you still continue. --Sarandioti (talk) 16:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Your mistake? what was that? You mean reverting and vandalizing? You did it again. Δις εξαμαρτείν ουκ ανδρός σοφούAlexikoua (talk) 17:30, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

No I didn't. I broke once by mistake the 3RR, and I do not intend to do it again.--Sarandioti (talk) 17:44, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

WP:ARBMAC warning

Hello Sarandioti. I am officially notifying you of Wikipedia:ARBMAC#Remedies. Note that any uninvolved administrator may impose sanctions under this Arbcom case. Sanctions may include a ban from editing any articles in this topic area. I am taking this step because you appear to have learned nothing from your recent block, and you have resumed your contentious nationalistic editing since your block expired. EdJohnston (talk) 17:41, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, for notifying me but I have no relation to Wikipedia:ARBMAC#Remedies. I have not edited articles regarding that topic, and do not intend to. --Sarandioti (talk) 17:43, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

You know pelasgian, very cool.Alexikoua (talk) 21:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Is this under arbitration?--Sarandioti (talk) 21:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Admins may issue sanctions under ARBMAC on any articles related to the Balkans. Your edits are unfortunately quite similar to the nationalistic fiddling that ARBMAC was addressed to. Under the heading 'Area of conflict' we read: Many of these conflicts are grounded in matters external to Wikipedia, including long-standing historical, national, and ethnic disputes in the region. The area of conflict in this case shall therefore be considered to be the entire set of Balkan-related articles, broadly interpreted.

If you would have the patience to wait to get consensus before changing articles, none of this furor would be necessary. So far, you seem to be the perfect example of a nationalistic edit-warrior, promoting the Albanian cause at every opportunity. EdJohnston (talk) 22:12, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

But I have used sources, in everything I have done, and have won a consensus. What should I do? Wait for nationalist greeks to change their thoughts? Look at most articles. I have opened topics in talkpages. --Sarandioti (talk) 22:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure we can find a common point, why dont u just sit and talk together?Alexikoua (talk) 22:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I do, I sincerely do, but look at yourfriend Athenian adding setions when the rest hav e decided to talk about it. And I have opened the talkpage at Himara, why dont you join? I am already there. --Sarandioti (talk) 06:33, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

You are surprising me, about the ancient Greek origin of the Souliotes (that's pro-Greek and unsourced off course). Alexikoua (talk) 06:59, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Just a small mistake...hehe --Sarandioti (talk) 07:01, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Men, I know u r good in arguements, but have more patience. I notice u just broke the 3rr again, tell me one good reason not to report u?Alexikoua (talk) 07:04, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

where? By mistake, if I did it, I reassure you --Sarandioti (talk) 07:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

You're mistaken, I checked them all. --Sarandioti (talk) 07:08, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Seems that's your only job here, ever tought that u can discuss topics?Alexikoua (talk) 07:12, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, I try to discuss, but its clearly a monolog since no one listens and does "οτι του καπνισει" --Sarandioti (talk) 07:14, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

On Himara, for example, whats the problem about the Greek name? I mean why then a represantative of the Greek minority in Albania has became mayor there, it proves that there are Greeks living there, isn't it?Alexikoua (talk) 07:23, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

He is of vlach origin from the village of Kurvelesh, and he was voted because he promised that he would not sell lands in non-albanian companies. Now no one wants him, plus he cannot be re-elected as he is a convicted person. Also in grece mr. Pagalos is voted, does that prove that the majority of greece are arvanites? --XXxLRKistxXx (talk) 07:26, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Her' I come!

You'll never walk alone --XXxLRKistxXx (talk) 07:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

LONG LIVE LRK! --Sarandioti (talk) 07:30, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 11:49, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Arbcom

Sarandioti, your town-names case isn't ripe for Arbcom, they take cases only after a lot more efforts at other forms of dispute resolution have failed. And let me tell you, you're lucky this is going to be declined, because going through an Arbcom case is no fun (as I am experiencing myself right now in a different case). I can try and have a look at this later, but you must first stop the revert-warring, and you also really need to stop those efforts at co-ordinated campaigning off-wiki and recruiting friends to join the dispute. I'm currently rather busy getting the arbitrators off my own back, but once I'm free I'll have a look and see if we can solve that case. In general, these "I want my national name on your article" conflicts come up every now and again, and they are rather silly, so please consider if you really want to keep squabbling over such matters. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:57, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Mate, look at the talkpages I have continuously tried to regulate this somehow, but neither ALexikoua, nor Athenean listen. They just keep reverting, and then the other editors revert them back, and , well, you cant stop a river once it starts flowing. --Sarandioti (talk) 13:07, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Blocked

You have been blocked for 1 month for violating Wikipedia's sockpuppetry policy by using XXxLRKistxXx to continue an edit war across multiple pages. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 14:36, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

It is a not sockpuppet account! Do you have proof? or just blank accusations?--Sarandioti (talk) 14:59, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I am a CheckUser. From my technical analysis, I determined that you engaged in abusive sockpuppetry by using XXxLRKistxXx for edit warring. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 15:18, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, could you please re-check? Just one re-check I ask for nothing more. --Sarandioti (talk) 15:23, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

And why would I have a sockpuppet NOW, a few hours ago I filed an arbitration case!?!?!. Does it look normal to you that? To ahve a sockpuppet and task for arbitration? --Sarandioti (talk) 15:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

If you have doubts, put me on probation for a month but you cant just block for a month just like that. Earleier I made 4Re and I reported myself, so why would I do that if I ntended to maintain a sockpuppet? --Sarandioti (talk) 15:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Your unblock request

Sarandioti, if Nishkid blocked you after a WP:CHECKUSER test, it means he found that the other account and yours were editing from the same IP address, i.e. most likely from the same computer. I cannot know what exactly he found, because the details are secret, but I have no reason to doubt his finding, and given this fact combined with your behaviour as allies in an edit war, and the fact that you yourself have done hardly anything on this project than assist others in edit-warring, you'll have a lot of explaining to do to convince people that you are all good-faith contributors. There's no way I could unblock you. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:30, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

No need for you to intervene I have started to regulate the issue with NIshkid himself. --Sarandioti (talk) 18:37, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Per our e-mail disucssion, I have decided to reduce your block length to three days. In the interim, please familiarize yourself with WP:SOCK and Wikipedia's other policies. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 12:42, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I am glad we reached a reasonable agreement --Sarandioti (talk) 15:27, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Courtesy notice

Hello Sarandioti. You're being discussed at User talk:EdJohnston#Sarandioti and I Pakapshem and also at User talk:Nishkid64#Question for you. EdJohnston (talk) 15:46, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I know. I already have sent a message to Nishkid as a reply to the accusations towards me by the greek nationalist Athenean. --Sarandioti (talk) 15:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Arbitration request declined

Hello, Sarandioti. A recent arbitration request in which you were named as a party, "Arbitration request on greek/albanian zones", has been declined by the Arbitration Committee. If this is still an issue that needs resolution, please pursue other areas in dispute resolution first, such as a third opinion, request for comment, or informal or formal mediation (preferably roughly in that order). Should you need assistance getting yourself and the other editors involved started on one of these processes, please feel free to contact me or another administrator. For the Arbitration Committee, Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 17:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

List of towns in Albania that may need attention

Hello Sarandioti. It seems you believe that some of the towns in southern Albania should not have Greek names included in their articles. Can you make a list of the towns that you think need to have their names reconsidered? If you believe that any demographic data should be used, when deciding what names should go into a town article, can you say which censuses you consider reliable?

In your opinion, what parts of Albania currently contain a Greek minority? Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 16:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Firstly not "in my opinion", but according to the OFFICIAL data, which is not questioned by the greek state. According to the official data, the minority zone is :99 villages in the districts of Gjirokaster and Sarande. NOT in the towns of Saranda, Delvine, Gjirokaster, but in 99 villages and communities such as Dropull. Needless to say that no town or village in the District of Vlore is a minority area, but the greek editors keep adding a greek name in Himare, wqhich is in the Vlore district. You will see in dropoll article history that I have made no changes there because indeed it is an official greek minority zone, but as you know I have continuously removed greek names from gjirokaster, sarande(my hometown), delvine, himare because they are NOT included in the minority villages/towns as always according to OFFICIAL data, which has never been questioned by ANY state. Certain greek editors like Athenean and Alexikoua kept adding them by using unofficial data by various non-official organisatios whose "research" is recognised by NO ONE, or by mere reasearchers without any concrete reliability other than their own beliefs. So how are we going to add names in albanian towns which the greek state itself does not see as minority zones? And even if we recognise them as reliable, then we would have to remove the greek names of other towns like Himare, because Athenean's and ALexikoua sources claim that in Vlore District(where the town of Himare is located) there are only 202 greeksnational, so even according to their sources their edits are not correct. But in Himare article both of them use tom winnifrith a vlach-interested independent researcher(no official reliability), to say that the majority indeed is greek in himare and from ancient times!(byzantine sources like Cantacuzene name them Αλβανοι αυτονομοι νομαδες/Albanian autonomous nomads). Of course they are never going to accept that their edits are erroneous, and will keep reverting official status of the towns, to dubious pro-greek status, and will never get a 3RR because each one makes 2 reverts per day. Of course greek organisations, and greek/pro-greek researchers may have arguments against the official data(like every minority in the world), but that is the official data, and you may question it as much as you want, but OFFICIAL MINORITY DATA is the one that should be used for names on towns no notions by dubious researchers and various authors. --Sarandioti (talk) 18:37, 12 June 2009 (UTC) --Sarandioti (talk) 18:37, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

The links you propose are based on the totalitarian;s regime 1989 census, however dictatorship is long forgotten in Albania (since 1991). According to the Albanian government's 1995 statement there are also Greeks in many other places out of the so called totalitarian regime's 'minority zone', Petiffer is quite clear about that (we had already talked and given the appropriate url;s and books several times).Alexikoua (talk) 13:37, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Aleixikoua you can call whatever you whatever you want, but the OFFICIAL data is what the greek government recognises as the greek minority zone. Read above, I explained that every author, researcher or anyone can claim whatever he wants, but official data is accepted by all countries. Pro-Albanian writers say that there is no minority at all, and they have the right to say it, but it is not official data. Pettifer or anybody can write as pro-greek/greek researcher, but again we cannot use them as a source instead of official data, just because we *like* what they say. PLease do not write anything else, before EdJohnston replies to what I wrote, in order to maintain a stable conversation. --Sarandioti (talk) 13:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)