Talk:Mirko Cro Cop

Fair use

None of the images used in this article currently have fair use rationales, and the sources are also sketchy. Also, are there any objections to using Susumu Nagao's images? [1] Not only are his photos amazing, but his license is quite permissive. east.718 03:37, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Any replacement of fair use images would be good. What are the licences on Susumu Nagao's images? Sancho 03:58, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

He holds copyright on the images, but they can only be used for non-commercial purposes, as long as they're attributed and no modifications or derivatives are made. It's essentially the same as a Creative Commons by-nc-nd license. east.718 04:56, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

As these still wouldn't be free images, we'd have to still use them under the fair-use criteria: Wikipedia:Non-free_content_criteria. We should remove and nominate for deletion the current set of images in this article... (lack rationale, sketchy sources, etc.) and then use if necessary, as few a number of Susumu Nagao's images as needed, and under the conditions at Wikipedia:Non-free_content_criteria. I think we could only justify using one image, only to display what Mirko looks like. We can also only use a low resolution version. Any other images of random fights that happen to be mentioned in the article, I don't think would have any fair-use rationale. Sancho 23:09, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure that at any moment, Mirko and the UFC's lawyers are waiting to swoop in and sue us for using an unlicensed image that makes him look good. Clearly, we should replace it with someone's crappy low-res cameraphone pic, or better yet, a pencil sketch. --Halloween jack 23:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually you're right, I didn't notice that that image did have a source, and is already a low-res version. It still needs a fair use rationale for us to keep it though. Sancho 00:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've requested fair-use rationale for all of the images used in this article (on the image pages). Looking back at fair-use policy, we can't use an image solely to display what Mirko looks like since that image would be replaceable by a free alternative. Sancho 00:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I know Nagao's photos will have to be used under WP:NFCC, but it is obviously going to be better than just pulling images off UFC's site as his licensing policy is explicit and quite permissive. I do agree that all the other current images need to go and only free images of fights should be used, unless there's some commentary on the photo.

I've also provided a rationale for the lead image for the moment, as I think it would be detrimental to the article to have absolutely no images. east.718 09:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Sexism and homophobia

Someone here has a real problem with the fact that Filipovic's homophobic and sexist statements are mentioned in the article? Well, that is a problem of a one side of the story in the text and as long as I can kneel and breathe, it will be in the article. If it is okay to list the names of Mirko's children, it is also fine to list the Playboy quotes where the shows another face. There is also a link of the Playboy pressclip. [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.131.55.214 (talk • contribs)

The problem is that editors on the English Wikipedia can't tell if the site you are using as a source is reliable, or if it even says what you are saying it says. What language is the article in? What is the source's reputation for fact-checking and reliability? (Also, please sign your comments with four tildes: ~~~~.) Sancho 21:20, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

.hr would normally be Croatian.  east.718 at 02:41, August 28, 2007 

Thanks East718. Based on that, I've asked an experienced Croatian editor to help us out here. Sancho 07:11, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I can't find any evidence that such an article ever appeared in the official, English-language version of Playboy (which is what most people would assume if they were to read that something was in "Playboy"). If this is a matter of "Some website that you've never heard of and can't read allegedly states that some foreign version of 'Playboy' that you've never heard of (and which may, for all we know, just be a tabloid that misquotes people and misrepresents stories to manufacture controversy and boost sales) allegedly claims that...", then I don't think it's right for Wikipedia. Just my opinion.Espoe 09:10, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

He gave the interview for Croatian Playboy, that other else? If other Wikipedias can consult the facts from other non-native speaking languages, so can English Wikipedia. The article was in croatian Playboy, and the discussion about that continued on weekly magazine Nacional as well, and the website i put as a reference just press cliped that part.Also the debate continued on Croatian TV's, because he previously, before becoming a MP stated, during the first gay pride, stated that "this is what a sick and immoral West is bringing to our society". Even when he became a MP candidate for the left wing party, the debate about his homophobia and sexism continued. He said that he will respect the position of the party, but after that he gave this Playboy interview. Also, this website, "you've never heard of" is a national gay and lesbian website in Croatia, funded by Zagreb city council, and taken pretty relevant by Croatian media. But in this case, this website just quoted a part of Mirko's interview from Playboy and a comment from weekly newsmagazine Nacional. You should consult with other editors who speak Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian to check the facts, and also ask about the public debate on this matter.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.114.38.22 (talk • contribs)

Hello. First, sorry if this issue is making you upset; none of us here are trying to be unfriendly. However, the initial points I raised still need to be addressed (although I'll try to make them in a slightly less wry fashion). First, if you want to refer to a foreign version of a magazine that has a primary version in one country, then you need to clearly specify which version of the magazine you are referring to. People can't assume that anyone (particularly an international celebrity) will only be interviewed in the version that exists in his or her native country; and the secondary versions of magazines might have lower editorial standards than the primary versions -- something that people will need to keep in mind when they determine whether any given source is valid.

Secondly, you make some new claims in your currently posting, but you don't provide support for them. And let's be honest: you can't expect people to just accept any claim without support; and you can't expect people to just accept that any given source is valid -- particularly when you want your work posted somewhere where the majority of readers won't be able to independently check the claims being made. Also, you can't expect other people to do your work for you, and research the reliability of your own sources, when you don't put in the effort to demonstrate their reliability yourself.

In any case, there are some other points that should be made, and I might write them up the next chance I get. However, I wanted to fire off a quick note, just to be sure that my meaning was clear, and there weren't any hard feelings. Espoe 14:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

A Croatian editor wants to say something here... :-) First of all: I have no direct knowledge on the quotes from the Croatian edition of Playboy being accurate or not. Gay.hr is probably a #1 Croatian LGBT web site, with articles routinely linked to from major portals such as monitor.hr; I really doubt that they would publish an outright fabrication, since these things are easily checked.

Were his (alleged?) statements paraphrased correctly in the article? Here is my translation of the two critical paragraphs:

“

It is clear that I don't like overly aggressive and overly ambitious women, so there's no way for me to agree with the feminist theses. A women is equal to a man in many things, but not in everything. If you look at the politics, women are an exception that confirms the rule. Except for Margaret Thatcher, what other women has been a prime minister of a major power? Never has and I don't think it will be. On the other hand, it's the same with homosexuality. Among our people, in our mentality, a fag is a fag and two guys holding hands will always be ridiculed. It is simply a disorder, whether they admit it or not, it's something unnatural. One of the most disgusting scenes I have seen in my life is, when I changed through satellite channels, a male[-to-male] intercourse. My stomach was turning for three days straight.

A man has to be a head of the family. Like there used to be a leader of the pack, a man has to be a leader in a relationship between a man and a woman. Everything else is incomprehensible to me. A woman should not be abused or derided, but there is an order that has to be respected.

”

That's about it, you be the judge. GregorB 17:55, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Cracked rib

Since the Kongo fight, I've been seeing rumors that Mirko cracked a rib in the first round, but no actual news reports. I've reverted several unsourced additions of this info to the article, but now someone is attributing it to an unspecified "post fight interview". Does anyone have a source for this interview? Gnfnrf 03:47, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

===here you go man. this is from crocops official site http://www.mirko-crocop.com/?id=4&solo=78 they have the video interview here http://www.nokaut.com/MMA/videos/?l=e&solo_id=76&title=Cro+Cop+Post+UFC75+ i dont see why its not a legit source especially when it is backed up by the official site. i see some wikinazis are kinda strict when it comes to sourcing things. good luck man! below is the interview.

I did bad, there is no excuse "My rib was broken and I had trouble breathing. I did bad, there's no excuse. I don't know, maybe I got too old. I'm in pain, my rib is broken and he kicked me 2 times to the groin, also resulting in reduced power. Oh well, we'll see shat happens next."

No need to get confrontational. I'm not saying that the source isn't legit, I'm just asking for one. Thank you for providing it. gnfnrf 00:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Cro Cop/Sapp

After changing the result of this fight back to TKO due to the injury to Sapp, I went to YouTube to find the fight. I figured I'd post a link to it here so people could see that Sapp was never knocked out. Well, after further review of the video (and looking at the K-1 Grand Prix site), I have to stand humbly corrected.

You can see the fight here:[3]. Jump ahead to ~2:45 to see the end. Cro Cop connects with a straight left, breaking Sapp's orbital bone. Sapp goes down in severe pain (understandably). The ref does not stop the fight due to the injury; instead, he begins the 10-count. Sapp does not get up by 10, so the ref waives off the fight. Failure to get up by the count of 10 is considered a knockout, not a TKO, so KO should properly be listed as the result of the fight.

Also, the K-1 Grand Prix website lists the official result as a KO on Sapp's page. So...I switched it back to KO here. Thanks to the anon poster for correcting it originally. Tuckdogg 22:38, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

rumored fight with kharitonov

i been reading internet rumors that sergei kharitonov will be crocops next opponent at dream 4. it was suposed to take place on dream 1 but crocop didnt want to fight such a tough opponent right away. anyone know of any legit sources? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.195.101 (talk) 19:48, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Height

Cro Cop is 6'2 (188 cm), not 6'1. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.15.117.78 (talk) 16:05, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

False, he personally states that he is 186 cm here: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=763760 85.166.238.63 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 00:42, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

nickname

where has crocop been called king without a crown? cant find any sources for it. i think the nickname tigar is legit though. i seen them display his name as tigar on an early k1. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.195.13 (talk) 19:07, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I did a search and the only site I found that was not a forum was this: Further, the perceived championship failures by a man with such obvious skills had people like Pride Announcer Mauro Ranallo referring to Filipovic as, “the king without a crown.”. Also one the forums someone said Mirko's Japanese management was referring to him by it to the press, but I found no sources for that.. - Aktsu (talk) 19:26, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Only one source supports the nickname and I certainly haven't heard fans using it at any time, so I don't think it's notable enough to appear in the article. Admiral Norton ^(talk) 23:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

sources for cro cop's nickname may have previously been tigar. heres a web site http://www.rdfc.tv/bio_mirko.html and heres a video from his first fight with jerome lebanner. at about 2:07 into the video, they display his name as mirko tigar. http://youtube.com/watch?v=vLtfwQzHz1Y hope this helps —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.195.13 (talk) 23:46, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Wins over Lesnar, Gonzaga and Kongo?

The top three entries in this article are false and need to be removed. Crocop has not beaten Lesnar, Gonzaga or Kongo. Thank you.

yeah he did the fights are right on youtube. he also beat kimbo slice twice

Looks like Cro Cop is no longer scheduled to fight in UFC 99 any more.

The following URL is a source on the UFC 99 page that suggests this:

http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.uk/news/viewarticle.php?id=1904

So I think that the following sentence that's in the article as of now should be modified accordingly:

"Cro Cop recently announced that his DREAM contract has come to an end and it is widely speculated that he will sign with the UFC and reurn at UFC 99 in Cologne, Germany."

Especially considering there's no source for the that statement. Agreed? Modul8r (talk) 00:23, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

signing with DREAM after UFC 99

I've read conflicting stories about if he actually signed with DREAM or not, but I have not read anything saying that DREAM has confirmed it yet. Anybody have a better source then a third party writing about rumors? I kind of think that this should be removed until it is proven as fact, because so far it just looks like hearsay from every angle. Aj10101 (talk) 12:54, 15 June 2009 (UTC)