Talk:United Airlines

Project Bojinka

Why not list project Bojinka on the United Airlines page? If it went off, 8 of their planes would have been destroyed over the ocean on January 21 and 22 1995. I think it should be listed as the project was a potential threat to the airline and its customers. WhisperToMe 03:59, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I apologise for removing the Project details, it was my mistake. I agree the Project link, and brief details, should be in the United article.

Adrian Pingstone 09:12, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

PDX is not a focus city

PDX should not be listed as a focus city, as UAL doesn't provide service from PDX to cities other than its hubs.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael Groeneman (talk • contribs) 16:58, 4 September 2005

• It has feeder service by United Express carriers. Also, sign your entries. Dbinder 19:45, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
• I was not the original person to remove PDX as a focus city, but I think it should be removed. The important distinction for rising to the level of focus city is two-fold: first, are there an interesting number of mainline flights? (in PDX's case there are not) and second would UAL itself claim PDX as a focus? I think not. Los Angeles has alternated between focus city and hub over the years. I'd say that in order to be a focus city, you have to have hublike qualities. PDX is at best a "connecting point" that is something of a legacy of its orginal north-south route structure on the West Coast, and something of an expression of UAL's desires to have nationwide coverage, but is today a small anomoly not worthy of mention, unless you can show UAL itself claiming it as a focus KevinCuddeback 15:17, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

New Logo

Why aren't United Airlines' new logo pictured anywhere? The old gray/blue logo was replaced with a new all blue logo. vw12 November 13, 2005 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.200.116.13 (talk • contribs) 06:28, 13 November 2005

• The logo has not changed. Can you contribute a photo of the new livery under a suitable license? If not, we have to wait until somebody else does. - choster 20:52, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

HUBS

Narita (Tokyo) is NOT a hub! If anything it is a secondary/focus city even though UA technically does not have them.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.128.172 (talk • contribs) 15:53, 15 December 2005

• I am inclined to DISAGREE as my UAL training manual clearly states that NARITA is indeed a HUB. It states that "United has several hub and gateway cities...." and that the hubs are DEN, IAD, LAX, ORD, SFO, LHR, NRT and that the gateway airports (or focus cities) are HNL, JFK, SEA, MIA, EWR. All of those gateway cities have multiple destinations across the US other than hubs. Honolulu to San Diego is a good example. The Narita flights serve a lot of Pacific destinations stand alone. It is by definition a HUB! I'd love to photocopy the page, but I believe UAL wouldn't appreciate that. It would however stop all debate on this subject. Plain and simple. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bikrtc (talk • contribs) 12:31, July 12, 2007 (UTC)

• FWIW, I have no horse in this race. But after seeing the revert history, I consulted UA's 2004 10K, which indeed states that United Airlines has five domestic hubs, no mention of any foreign hubs. Moreover, the "About United" press release blurb reads "hubs in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Denver, Chicago and Washington, D.C." So that is the management perspective. UA doesn't serve any domestic destinations from NRT, though they do have enough of an operation there that I as a non-professional would call it a hub--but is there any authority (FAA, IATA, ICAO, etc.) that establishes a standard for what qualifies? The current list (with the addition of SAT in March) is accurate enough, it's not as if we were still listing EWR and MIA.-choster 20:52, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I also took the liberty of removing Hong Kong as a focus city, because United doesn't seem to have any extraordinary service there. I'm tempted to remove Honolulu and JFK as well, since each only has one route beyond UA's hubs and focus cities, but those are tougher cases so might as well leave them. - Sekicho 21:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

• HKG is a focus city. United serves multiple destinations other than their hubs from there. NRT used to be considered a hub by United, but I guess their service cutbacks have downgraded it to a focus city. Dbinder 02:57, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

..."multiple destinations" meaning Ho Chi Minh City and Singapore. Does two flights a day make an airport a focus city? Or, in the case of JFK, one (LHR)? Or in the case of HNL, one (KIX)? I'm kinda confused as to how we're defining things here. Sekicho 04:10, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Based on the discussion over at WikiProject Airlines, it seems that NRT is the only "focus city" UA currently has. Any objections? - Sekicho 19:52, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Didn't they recently add SAT as a focus city? J1729 20:26, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

• • FWIW, according to the 2005 10-K, Tokyo is a hub. -choster 21:25, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, UA considers NRT a hub, lots of connections but i guess the 14 flights a day keeps people from opening their eyes to what a hub is. Fact is not all hubs need 300+ dailies. I'm not going to change the table as there will be no more focus cities for everyone to see, but HKG and SEA are...per UA. Whatever, someone who has the facts changes something for the better and some highschooler or enthusiast just changes it back. oh well. Fry1234, KORD

You might want to check the UA page again. HKG and SEA are never mentioned as "focus cities" by UA. SEA was only a "gateway city" to Asia and the Pacific. However, one can arguably say that Tokyo-Narita is a hub, depending on interpretation. --physicq210 06:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

You're getting this from the UAL page? I work at UA in routes and planning, and we call HKG and SEA focus cities, and NRT a hub. Fry1234 07:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

You might want to ask UA again. Their report unfortunately don't show HKG and SEA as focus cities, and Wikipedia can only use these sources. But bear in mind this report was in 2005, so it might be outdated. --physicq210 17:13, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

For United Airlines, a gateway city is technically a focus city of sorts, United does not operate focus cities a la Delta/American/US Airways and thus cannot have our definition of a focus city subject to the same categorization as the three airlines mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.53.216.170 (talk • contribs)

However, then SEA cannot be a focus city in a normal sense since SEA is mentioned a "gateway city" only to the Asia-Pacific market and not to the domestic market. Hence the designation is disputable. I see your point though. --physicq210 17:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I see your point about using public-domain sources, but when we work on SEA and HKG, we call them focus operations, solely due to the reason they connect and have FA domiciles. Well, the NRT-SEA flight isnt going anywhere. I really dont care if the page says SEA and HKG are focus ops, just wanted to clear it up. United has plans for HKG and SEA, which i wish i could discuss on here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.53.216.170 (talk • contribs)

You can discuss here. BTW, sign your edits please by typing ~~~~.

Wait...what's with the "we"? Sorry if I sound rude. --physicq210 18:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

well, ive worked for UA 24 years now and work in routes and planning, and "we", meanign the department, call the cities focus operations. United and I are not we...come on...after taking paycuts like "we"...us employees did..United and I are far from chum. Fry1234 18:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

LOL, I see your point. So the IP was you (or your department)? --physicq210 18:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

no, the ip is my personal, the IT department monitors that sort of activity and id get into a bad situation. fry1234

TfD nomination of Template:OTA

Template:OTA has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you.

San Antonio (SAT) is not a focus city

San Antonio (SAT) is not a focus city!!! United currently has less than 12 arrivals and departures combined in SAT. All of them are bound from and/or to UA hub cities like Chicago and Denver.

Flights from San Antonio to New Orleans, Kansas City, Oklahoma City and Colorado Springs are operated by Trans States Airlines, which is a United Express carrier. All mainline flights operated by United Airlines link San Antonio to its hub cities.

San Antonio (SAT) is a focus city

According to USA Today San Antonio is referred to by United as both a focus city and a "hublet" It boasts 12 non stop destinations from San Antonio International which is more than from any non hub city. These cities include New Orleans, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Colorado Springs, and other destinations which are not United hubs. Passengers are also connecting in San Antonio which is a first for that airport.

This comes back to the discussion on whether focus cities/hubs for regional carriers should be included as focus cities for the mainline carrier (e.g. CO in BOS). The original decision was no. Dbinder 08:51, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

SEA not focus city??

Why isn't SEA a focus city of UA? It operates the majority of the flights out of SEA to UA hubs. Bucs2004 03:14, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

You just contradicted your argument. If you didn't your argument doesn't make sense. SEA was never designated a focus city. --Physicq210 18:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

To settle this issue once and for all, SeaTac is not and was never designated a focus city. It is only a "gateway city" to the Asia-Pacific airline market. See [1] for more details. I hate continually reverting people because of this misleading "SEA is a focus city" thing. --physicq210 06:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

How about this? --physicq210 05:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Do you work for United or have any authority to post what is or is not part of the airline's network? Am i missing something? I just want to know why you seem so "pushy" about what can be included on this page. About SEA and other focus ops, just cause it isnt specified in the annual report means its null and void? So back in 2000, when UA had over 100 daily operations into the airport, it wasn't a focus city?...weird, because i personally remember doing some of the scheduling for the SEA focus city, as it was called in meetings by people higher than me and many others. I'm not ridiculing you, so take no offense to this post. I just want to know why a high school kid is the "boss" of a page about a company with 80 years in business. Fry1234 05:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I retract my above post. However, we debate what we have in the present, not about the glory days in 2000. And if it were not for your second-to-the-last sentence, I would have taken your above words as a vicious personal attack. --physicq210 05:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

And one more thing, i see you've done lots for many different topics and i dont mean to criticize your age, as it doesnt matter. my son is in high school and the only reason i became a member on this site is due to the fact that he was doing a report on UA and told me to look at this site. i was just wondering as to why it seemed so hard to get a point across on this page. Fry1234 05:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

You mean my stubbornness (yes, I admit it) or because of the edits of others? I won't care if you say it was the former. --physicq210 05:27, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

"Vicious personal attack"? wow... okay... and 2000 was far from a glory year. Fry1234 05:26, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh, ok. Still, we talk about the condition of UA today, not in 2000. --physicq210 05:27, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

you were kidding about the personal attack thing? i read my post over and over and i find the viciousness you say to be not included. Fry1234 05:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC) I know we talk of United now, and not in 2000, but SEA is a focus city until the regional connections leave.

Ok...I was exaggerating a bit. It wasn't vicious, but it can be considered a personal attack by many, even if you dont see it. --physicq210 05:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

by many? people on this site are that touchy? well, okay, this is silly, we are the only contributors to this page on a regular basis, by that i mean daily, correct? Fry1234 05:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Why did you retract your statement? your interpretation of the facts isnt flawed, nor is mine. just conflicting viewsFry1234 05:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Effects of a sleepy mind. >P --physicq210 05:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Anyway, I see your point at how SEA is a focus city. However, Wikipedia has a guideline called WP:RS, which (sort of) requires reliable and readily assessible sources to be available to back a claim. It also has a policy called WP:OR, which bars original research from being used. I'm not saying you're wrong, but unfortunately you need to cite a source to back your side of the argument. --physicq210 05:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

oh, i understand where they come from with that. Fry1234 05:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Huh? Sorry, I didn't understand your comment. --physicq210 05:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

i was saying i understand where Wikipedia comes from with the readily available sourcing on subjects. Fry1234 06:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey Fry1234 and Physicq210, perhaps it is time to cool off a little bit. Take a little bit of time off and get some perspective on this.. Its just an encyclopedia. Cliffb 18:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

United's International Rank (with respect to its size)

Recently, while reading the July traffic releases of US majors, I realized that United flew fewer revenue passenger miles than Delta. It also flew fewer Available Seat Miles. I am not sure about enplaned passengers. Both articles were from the Associated Press

Quotes: "The airline, [Delta], which is restructuring under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, said traffic fell 0.6 percent to 11.76 billion revenue passenger miles, an industry unit measuring one paying passenger flown one mile. Capacity fell to 13.77 billion available seat miles."

"Traffic grew to 11.07 billion revenue passenger miles in July from 10.7 billion in the same month a year ago" --United

Futhermore, year to date for United is 83,224,423 ASM, for Delta it is 86,092,478. (PR Newswire)

Again, if you look at the figures for passengers enplaned, Delta sits at 62,794,884 and United at 40,957,000. (PR Newswire

The articles can be found:

AP, United AP, Delta PR Newswire, United PR Newswire, Delta

Perhaps the Wiki article on United should reflect these changes. United is now number 3 in ASM and RPM and passengers enplaned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by UAAC (talk • contribs)

No, United Airlines is still the number two carrier in the world. United's traffic only includes mainline ops, while delta's includes it regional subsidiaries. Delta, the actual delta, not comair, nor the contract carriers, flew 73,271,114 ASM making delta 12% smaller than United. Fry1234, KORD —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fry1234 (talk • contribs)

But, aren't United's regionals merely under the umbrella of United Express? That is included in the figures.

"United Airlines (Nasdaq: UAUA - News) operates more than 3,700* flights a day on United, United Express and Ted to more than 210 U.S. domestic and international destinations from its hubs in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Denver, Chicago and Washington, D.C."

Wouldn't it all be included in the System figures? —Preceding unsigned comment added by UAAC (talk • contribs)

I've always asked why we don't do it and always get the answer of, "they aren't part of UAL Corp". Delta may do it, but UAL doesn't. We should, but dont. Yet, with contract carriers, UA would still be larger than DL. Fry1234, KORD —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fry1234 (talk • contribs)

New Fleet chart

I spent some time wrangling the fleet chart. Its got some pretty extensive formatting changes. Usually I'd be a bit more bold, but I'd like feedback before moving it over to the article... Cliffb 18:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to put the new fleet chart on the main page

Aren't the 747s still sometimes used interhub. I know I flew a 744 from SFO to ORD (coming back from PVG) in 2003. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by UAAC (talk • contribs) 23:11, 2006 August 12.

Not sure -- I just reformatted the information in the previous chart. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:cliffb (talk • contribs) cliffb.

Bankruptcy additions by 67.163.8.43

I think the additions to the bankruptcy section by 67.163.8.43 should be reverted -- they're far too detailed and go beyond the scope of the article, and disrupt the flow. —Cliffb 07:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it should be reverted. While the added information has lots of value, it's too lengthy, plus some of the information isn't correct. Fry1234 21:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Made the revert of just the bankruptcy section — Cliffb 23:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

External links categories

Is it necessary to categorize all the links in the external links section, or can we jsut consolidate them? --physicq210 18:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I think given the number of links on this page, its helpful.. it might be worth doing some pruning though.. —Cliffb 18:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I feel that there are too many links compared to the size of the artice! I think if the links are going to be catagorized, then the other sections should be too! (74.119.16.75 01:14, 25 August 2006 (UTC))

Citation needed

"That struggle cost the airline $1 billion, and provoked a long period of labor unrest and financial deterioration that culminated in bankruptcy nearly 20 years later." This seems to be an opinion rather than a substantiated fact. Can anyone flag this and give it a citation?

GAC

I judged this article on 7 criteria:

1. Well-written: Fail
2. Factually accurate: Pass
3. Broad: Pass
4. Neutrally written: Pass
5. Stable: Pass
6. Well-referenced: Fail
7. Images: Pass

For an article to pass references, I look for around 20ish on most GA contenders. I'd almost look for more on this, but only because it's so long. Regardless, this article has only 1 ref, and that's not good enough. I also failed the well written requirement, for 2 things. The lead is poorly written, and does not summarize the article very well, and even though there are other articles linked to, I'd want the beginning paragraph to at least have a couple of sentences, rather than just the links. If these issues are resolved, feel free to message me on my talk page, I'd be happy to re-evaluate the article. --PresN 01:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

United should have 747-8

United Airline should purchase 747-8 so they can fly more routes farther and replace their very old 747's. The 747-8 is really more econmic.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Eclaw (talk • contribs) 22:02, 31 October 2006

• Perhaps, although many of the 744s were delivered fairly recently. But Wikipedia isn't really a suitable to debate it; it's not a discussion site-- this page is specifically for improving the United Airlines article. Have you visited airliners.net? -choster 14:48, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Recent POV additions

In addition to today's "activity", I have found POV addiotion on Dec. 6 of a similar tone. Check IP's beginning with a 6 especially (the ones I've seen so far have come from 67, 68, and 69). Thanks. - BillCJ 06:09, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Why is someone changing my contributions to the United Airlines page?

I am a 10 year employee at United Airlines and I have insider knowledge as to what happened there. When I go and try to add FACTS to the articles someone comes and erases it. Is this person a UAL employee like I am? I think not. Why change what I am writing on there? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TRIPxCORE (talk • contribs) 06:22, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

Interestingly enough I see no edits of the article to your name if you are the Ip I keep reverting is because its unsourced and full of POV Problems. EnsRedShirt 06:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Please read the comments I emailed to you and put on the talk page for 68.104.59.118 --Matt 06:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

First-hand knowledge is considered Original Research on Wikipedia. Please read Wikipedia:No original research carefully before adding any new material. Thanks, - BillCJ 06:38, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I gave a source for my Summer From Hell contribution and now you still erase it on me! Wikipedia is biased and a fraud! - TRIPxCORE

I did not see a source on the last revert I made. Howev er, just having a source does not guarantee it can stay in either. It has to be credible and verifiable. - BillCJ 13:32, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

If you saw the links above, which I will spell out for you (and add more), there are perfectly valid reasons why your edits were rejected:

• Wikipedia:No original research
  • Wikipedia:Cite
• Wikipedia:Verifiability
• Wikipedia:Neutral point of view
  • Wikipedia:Criticism
• Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a crystal ball

Even though you claim you're a 10-year United employee, I can also claim I'm a 10-year United employee, if I so desire. It's important that "facts" are backed up by published reliable sources. Unfortunately, your insider knowledge is not enough. Unless you can find and cite such sources, your edits would have to be deleted. Tinlinkin 08:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

So where are the sources listed and cited for what has already been written in the UAL article may I ask? - TRIPxCORE

As a employee at United, which none of you happen to be, the veracity of my contributions cannot be disputed by any of you. None of you can come close to knowing the truth's that I know. Yet you haphazardly erase what I write and give a bunch of ridiculous reasons as to why you did it. So I go along with your ridiculous rule and find a source and still you erase what I write. Now I am told that just because I have a source that doesn't automatically guarantee inclusion!! First I needed a source and now I need one that can be verified by someone? By who, you? It's been made quite clear to me that Wikipedia kowtows to big business, is afraid to let the truth be known, is biased and a huge fraud! There isn't one piece of that UAL article that was already written before I got here that has a verifiable source attached to it. Now the rule gets implemented for me for trying to tell the truth. I will make sure to tell everyone what Wikipedia stands for and that if the truth is to be known, to avoid this place at all costs because it's biased! - TRIPxCORE

Again, I never saw a source for anything you added which I deleted, or I would have tried to look at the source first. Although there are 2 sources in the article, you are right that the rest does not have sources. However, to this point no one has questioned the validity of those sections or facts, so they have remained.

Anyway, I have added an "unreferenced" tag to the head of the article. This will let other editors know that they need to find sources for the article.

Remember, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper. If you have a stroy to tell, call up your local paper, TV station, or one of the national media outlets, and tell them what you've experienced. But this is not the place for first-hand knowledge. I have heard news reports about some of what you've talked about, so it probably would not be hard to find several printed or online publications about the topic.

Second, Wikipedia is community-based. All participants bear the responsibility to watch for things that should not be on Wikipedia. I know I have had material that I have added deleted by someone else as not being sutible for one reason or another, and I'm sure the other editors here have also.

Thanks. - BillCJ 23:42, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

- you are right that the rest does not have sources. However, to this point no one has questioned the validity of those sections or facts, so they have remained.

This is what you wrote to me. So who may I ask questioned the validity of what I wrote then? - TRIPxCORE

Ok, so now that it's valid let's work to incorporate the changes into the article. Last night when I read the changes to this article and Glenn Tilton, I could tell from the tone of the edits that it was put in by a frustrated United employee. So let's work on inserting the changes with a neutral point of view and an even tone. --Matt 00:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

The only way to write the article is to tell the truth, which is what I did. It may sound harsh because the actions of that time were harsh. What I wrote is exactly the way it happened. I wrote it in a neutral way. I didn't go and say that the things were happening to me personally even though they were. I wrote it as an outside observer. I think it requires no change. Joe 00:36, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Verifiability, not truth. No verifiability has been provided, and you are venting at us? Please, calm down and discuss. --²¹⁰physicq (c) 01:54, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I already gave a "verifiable" source for the "Summer From Hell" contribution.Joe 02:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Would you mind repeating the source here for all of us to see? You added a lot of text last night, on well over 15 occasions, its hard to guess which edit the source is in. Thanks. - BillCJ 02:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-unitedday3-story,0,4838025.story?coll=chi-unitednavover-misc Joe 03:11, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Here is the source:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-unitedday3-story,0,4838025.story?coll=chi-unitednavover-misc

Joe 03:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

The biggest issue is the content itself. Despite there being a source, the entire paragraph was heavily biased. While it could certainly go in a newspaper - as someone mentioned - it doesn't fit in an encyclopedia. This should be facts about the airline, not complaints about management screwing over employees. If it pointed out objectively that pay was cut, employees stayed overtime, or something of that nature, it could probably stay. But right now it looks like a rant against the airline. DB (talk) 17:47, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup needed

We need cleanup on the "travel classes" section. Bigtop 16:36, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I think about 90% of it should be removed. The information is directly available from United. DB (talk) 03:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Why this flag: 'This article or section does not cite its references or sources'???

I don't understand this flag!?! There are only two 'citation needed' flags ... why would only two flags trigger the whole article to be discredited??? --Inetpup 06:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, 'This article or section does not cite its references or sources' doesn't discredit an article, it's much like a cleanup tag for needing references. There were a lot fewer references when that tag was added, but I believe roughly every paragraph should have a citation. For example, slogans, Friendship One, codeshare agreements, travel classes, the fleet table, new routes, and a few other sections need references. --Matt 21:15, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Economy Plus

This sentence was removed by User:FCYTravis: 'However, the introduction of this service has created unbalanced load factors between the middle of the aircraft (Economy Plus), which is often underutilized, and the rear of the plane (UnitedEconomy), which often operate at crush load.' The reason given was: (rm nonsense sentence - the whole point of E+ is that it's a premium product over regular Economy offered only to those who have paid more or who have earned access through loyalty.)

I propose adding something that states that Economy Plus has caused UnitedEconomy to suffer ... United agents will only seat UnitedEconomy passengers in Economy Plus once seats have been exhausted in UnitedEconomy. This leads to the new UnitedEconomy being inferior to the old UnitedEconomy, which allowed for a more balanced distribution of passengers throughout the aircraft. In other words, United not only introduced a premium product (Economy Plus), but its introduction necessarily led to the downgrade of UnitedEconomy.--Inetpup 21:08, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

To express the opinion that it's caused a downgrade would require that we cite a source that's said that. FCYTravis 05:11, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Format corruption of Incidents section

Some guy changed the Incidents section. Do you agree that the table format is good? I think it kinda sucks. It hasn't even been discussed here. --Inetpup 23:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Inetpup, I suggest you change the section heading, as we should discuss the content and not attack the person. I prefer the old format myself. --Matt 23:53, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

It's hard to offend a guy that's just an IP address. I figured he could handle it, so I just dished it out. --Inetpup 01:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that's either the letter or spirit of WP:NPA. Or really civil. There are actually users who use IPs regularly and do pay attention to articles, an I'm guessing there's people behind them instead of intelligent bot nets... --Matt 02:47, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I made a slight change. --Inetpup 03:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Will others please respond regarding the corruption of the Incidents section. If I don't hear from you by Thursday, I'm gonna revert that section back to the old format!! In other words, if you like it the way it is, I need to hear from you. Otherwise, I'll 'correct' the maligned format. Thanks. --Inetpup 07:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Mileage Plus

I have deleted the "classes" of Mileage Plus, because this is information available in their site, and is a promotion of the company, which is hard to keep track of, and also to avoid Wikipedia to become a free advertising channel for the company.200.222.3.3 23:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I reverted it because you didn't use an Help:Edit summary, so it looked like vandalism; however, I welcome a discussion of whether the section should really be deleted. Cheers --Matt 23:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I generally agree that the section was pretty marketing speak. Howabout something more like "United has a premium reward system for very frequent flyers which allows them free economy plus, a mileage bonus, and other perks." One sentence without much details? --Matt 23:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I think the section is appropriate, although perhaps it should be slightly condensed. It's not "a promotion of the company" to document its frequent-flyer program, and it's not "hard to keep track of," because substantive changes are very rare. The three-tier structure has been in place for at least 15 years, if not longer. FCYTravis 02:18, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Global Services modified to note that United does not publish qualification criteria for Global Services program, and that membership is by invitation only. There is no source to cited for the 50k requalification claim.70.6.214.49 01:05, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Should we just have a separate article on Mileage Plus--all this info makes the already long article way too long. Gb6819 15:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Cabin

I also vote for the deletion of the section about the cabin, we're doing free marketing for the company!!200.222.3.3 23:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe convert to a table-format. I agree this whole thing sounds like an ad. Gb6819 15:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I tried to make it sound less advertisement-like. I, on the contrary to the two above, think it's a good part of the page as the information is valuable to me and [hopefully] other travelers... Sjodenenator (talk) 09:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Discussion of Complaints links

There's a discussion at Talk:Delta Air Lines#Complaint Links about the removal of the links to the complaints bulletin boards (such as www.unitedcomplaints.com, these complaints bulletin boards are all from one company and have minimal information) from airline articles. I invite you to discuss this change there. --Matt 01:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Heathrow focus city

What makes London Heathrow Airport a focus city? I just noticed this today. Actually, someone moved around the hubs, too. 10:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. It only flies to its Chicago-O'Hare, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Washington-Dulles hubs only. Heathrow is not a focus city for UA. Bucs2004 00:40, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Someone already removed LHR, too. 12:48, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Merger Rumors

I think the edits to this page, estpecially the first section should not be made every time there's a speculation on merger. There have been tons of rumors that have not come to fruition, and are not subject to inclusion in an encyclopaedic article. Every time the United management goes out to any conference, the following scenario occurs.

Mgmt: (talks for 1 hour about changes since Chapeter 11 and business plans).
Reporter: What about consolidation?
Mgmt: Consolidation is good for the industry; a merger may make this company stronger.
Reporter: (writes article folcusing solely on consolidation)

On the other hand, everyone editing missed the Aloha deal... Gb6819 16:00, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

• Sorry, false. --Inetpup 05:09, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:United mileagepluslogo.jpg

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Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 11:43, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Recent news section

I'm inclined to remove the recent news section on the article. Wikipedia is not a site for recent news. Some of the content in there is useful, such as the San Fransisco to Guangzhou route and LA to Shanghai and should be moved elsewhere in the article. But the article didn't even mention Silver Wings before, so is it important to mention its removal? Is the name of the chef designing first class meals important? I don't think it's even notable, the articles written were basically just reannouncing United's press release. --Matt 14:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

In Pop Culture

I have updated the "In Pop Culture" section to reflect that the setting for The Terminal is actually Los Angeles International Airport but is described in the movie as John F Kennedy International Airport. If you pay attention to gate the Tom Hanks takes up residence at, it is gate 69 which is one of United's gates at LAX (Martok527 00:55, 29 July 2007 (UTC)).

I also updated the reference that stated Chris Tucker was a United Ramp Agent, to read he was a United Mechanic as is seen if you pay close attention to the jump suit he is wearing, and as United strictly differentiates Ramp (CG) and Mechanic (MM) employees (Martok527 00:55, 29 July 2007 (UTC)).

HNL focus city?

Should we designate Honolulu International Airport as a UA focus city? I mean it does have flights to and from its hubs, non-hubs, and in Japan. Bucs2004 01:44, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Added Retired Fleet Box

I added a retired fleet box in the Fleet section. If there is more to add or some errors, please correct :)

fleet size - seating layouts changing

United is reconfiguring its three class airplanes. They are reducing the number of seats in first and business and (I think) adding seats in coach (possibly by removing some economy plus seats).

The first newly reconfigured 767 will fly on Oct 29 from IAD-FRA. It will have 6 first class seats, 26 lie-flat business seats, and 151 (possibly more?) economy seats. Newly reconfigured 747s and 777s will join the fleet at later dates. Anyone know what the numbers for these reconfigured planes will be and where can we fit that into the fleet size chart? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.229.179.54 (talk) 23:28, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Have you seen United's new business seats? It's entirely possible they're not changing the number of economy seats as the new business seats (and the first class lie flat seats on the 767) will take up more space. --Matt 00:08, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Here are the wonderful new seating charts: scroll down and look to the right: [2]

Jendeyoung 20:45, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Hong Kong focus city

What makes Hong Kong a focus city? I just noticed this recently. It only flies to 2 non-hub cities (Ho Chi Minh City and Singapore) and soon to be 3 of its hubs (Chicago, San Francisco, and soon to be Los Angeles). Bucs2004 16:52, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm OK with yanking it. I've been searching around, and United makes no mention of focus cities on united.com or in its latest "Results of Operations and Financial Condition, Financial Statements and Exhibits" [3]. --Matt 18:09, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Great job! This article was used as a major source by Air International Magazine (12/2007 edition)

Did any of you read the 'United Airlines -- Back from the Brink' article (on page 48, 12/2007 issue) of Air International Magazine? They used a great deal of information from our article that all of you contributed to! Some of it is almost word-for-word! Great job, given that they used us as a reliable source! --Inetpup (talk) 06:24, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

• Well it is about time that an article on Wikipedia is recognized rather than scrutinized.--Golich17 (talk) 02:55, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Codeshare Agreements

The section about codeshare agreements seems to be rather short. For example it does not include UA's codeshare agreement with NZ (Air New Zealand). I'm sure there are many more which are not listed. James Pole (talk) 06:25, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

UA SFO-CAN Flight

On the San Francisco International Airport article, a user changed the date for UA's SFO-CAN route to begins on June 18, 2009 instead of 2008. Will UA still fly on 6/18/2008 or has it been pushed back a year? Thanks! 74.183.173.237 (talk) 23:29, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

• The flight is indeed slated to commence in 2009 now; see "United Airlines delays San Francisco-Guangzhou route, cites oil prices".-choster (talk) 22:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

"Premature death" of TED

Inetpup has been using the phrase "premature death" in the sentence "The premature death of Ted will furlough approximately 100 aircraft". I've been trying to change "premature death" to "closure" as I believe premature is a judgment call, not really suitable in the article. Could others weigh in on what appropriate phrasing here would be? --Matt (talk) 14:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for posting this, Matt. The reason I like 'premature death' is because United tried to make Ted like a person. And this using this word choice would make it sound like a person died. It's just my preference of word choices. --Inetpup (talk) 16:35, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

But it's not neutral. Premature makes a judgment about the expected life of a spinoff. You'll not find an objective source backing the prematurity. --Matt (talk) 18:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I agree that the word 'premature' is POV. However, I think we should use word choices that are anthropomorphic when describing Ted (airline). So maybe we can keep 'death' and take out 'premature'. Thanks! --Inetpup (talk) 05:56, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it gets a bit kitschy for an encyclopedia to follow a company's lead on how to address its divisions. It's much more how a newspaper would do it than how an encyclopedia should do it. If United referred to Ted as a cat, I don't think it would be appropriate to say "Ted used up its ninth life last week." So I don't think we should be anthropomorphizing Ted, even if United did. --Matt (talk) 16:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

• I agree, "death" is unencyclopedic and "closure" is more appropriate in this instance. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 18:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

• If United called Ted a cat, I would have preferred using the example you gave: Ted used up its ninth life last week. But that's just my preference. Oh well. --Inetpup (talk) 02:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• 不滿 / 불행 / अप्रसन्न / nešťastný--Inetpup (talk) 04:28, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

References

Please expand the references on all subjects in this article. I've started tagging some questionable statements regarding the Strike of 1985, which is almost entirely unsourced. To maintain neutrality and to ensure reliability, all of these sentences need citations. Thanks, Cumulus Clouds (talk) 18:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I am working on that now. I have added two links and will have more in the days ahead. EditorASC (talk) 19:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

NRT

For the past couple of days, anon IPs continue to re-add NRT in the infox as a UA focus city. Was NRT ever a focus city or did UA removed it as focus city? 74.183.173.237 (talk) 03:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I spoke with a UA representative recently who noted they consider NRT a focus city and SEA and HNL gateway cities. 67.170.104.140 (talk) 07:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

United's Interest in Boeing 787 Dreamliner

"United has also showed no interest in the Boeing 787 Dreamliner project, also to help deal with current tough economic times, also affecting other major US airlines." Seems to me this is incorrect since UA is lobbying to become a GoldCare partner for 787 maintenance. 67.170.104.140 (talk) 07:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Added this point. Beevo (talk) 15:46, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

cross posting to ual and pdx

I have some one who keeps editing without a cite, that united express is ending service RDM-PDX... we just had capacity additions announced recently so it sounds kind of odd... anyways anyone have a ref on this? 72.0.187.239 (talk) 21:19, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Experiences of UA by notable people

Should this be mentioned anywhere in the article? http://cr.yp.to/conferences/iadams.html If not, why not? Could a sentence saying something like "there are reports of problems with compensation for damage to baggage handled by UA [1]" I know the UA PR people won't like it, but is there a real reason not to include it? Mr. Jones (talk) 15:20, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Nope. It's not a reliable source or notable source. --Matt (talk) 03:23, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Maybe we should mention that United breaks guitars, LOL. Sorry, couldn't restrain... man with one red shoe 03:19, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

This is not encyclopedic material. Baggage is damaged everyday around the world and simply because someone put a video on YouTube does not make it notable. Beevo (talk) 18:40, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

But if media around the world report about it becomes notable. Usually the media does not report about damaged baggage or people uploading videos on youtube, but here they do, in the USA, Canada, other countries (here in Germany all the major newspapers report about this). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christian.moritz (talk • contribs) 19:13, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

and looking at other items mentioned in the article, this incident has received more news coverage and is of more signifiance than say Westin partnering with United. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christian.moritz (talk • contribs) 19:15, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Because United is the online airline that damages or loses baggage...? This isn't a consumer advocacy site, it's an encyclopedia. --Smashville^talk 19:17, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

And because it is an encyclopedia we report about events that have received significant coverage in reliable sources. 76.117.1.254 (talk) 19:57, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Let me start by telling you that I have done 22000 edits, many of them on airline articles, since I began editing in early 2002. To edit airline articles I obviously have to read them (and often their discussion pages) so, after seven years, I do know what is OK in an article and what is not. These facts are given NOT as a boast but to show that there’s a strong chance I know what I’m talking about.

OK, so on to my point. I can assure whoever is adding the guitar stuff that it is absolutely not acceptable to detail an individual customers complaint. Of the many hundreds of airline articles I have read and edited I do not know of one that does so. This is an encyclopedia and such stuff looks very odd here.

It doesn’t matter in the slightest that there has been press publicity, it is Wikipedia policy to stay an encyclopedia and not to become a complaints site. Sorry, but that’s just how it is.

I have reverted this item three times I think, so can't do so again. It seems time to get an Admin involved to make a ruling. - Adrian Pingstone (talk) 21:22, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Again, what matters is that this incident has received significant press coverage, and that according to Wikipedia content policies is what matters. To say press publicity doesn’t matter in the slightest is plain wrong. Here the extensive press coverage is the reason why this customer complaint and not the millions of other similar customer complaints is mentioned. Whether this incident deserves a full paragraph is debatable, but given the poor state of the recent news section which has several items that are arguably of much less significance it should stay as it is for the moment. Maybe in a few months when someone is rewriting the recent news section in a way similar to the history section the inclusion can be assessed, by then it should be clear how important this incident was in retrospect (and the same should be done for the earth shattering cooperation with Westin or the sensational news about United ceasing a route to Tokyo and Mexico). 76.117.1.254 (talk) 21:44, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Did you read anything I wrote, because your reply ignores my points completely!! It is NOT WIKIPEDIA POLICY to include passenger complaints. Simple as that! We could fill every airline article entirely with passenger complaints so we choose to have none. I now give up, perhaps someone else can take action. Best Wishes - Adrian Pingstone (talk) 22:54, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Please stay calm. I read your response, very carefully, and that is why I was stating Wikipedia policy, which clearly says that the main, if not the only criterion for inclusion is whether something has received significant coverage in reliable sources. We simply couldnt fill every airline article enirely with passenger complaints, because the vast majority of passenger complaints receive no or no siginifact press coverage. This one received significant coverage, so the only point worth discussing here is whether this press coverage is significant enough or not, as I argued above in my opinion it is, in particular in comparison to the other item in the section recent news. 76.117.1.254 (talk) 23:31, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

(out) Coverage is not significant enough yet to warrant mention in this article; it would be undue weight. In other articles, that is different; for example, it has been added to the Viral video article and makes sense there (it's one of the few additions to that article that actually has a source). The coverage of the video is a somewhat big deal for the Viral Video article, but a very small deal for this article; it's simply not important enough yet. If the video caused sweeping changes to United's policies then it would be a big deal...but as far as I can tell, all it has caused is a PR rep to say "this will be useful for training". rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 02:40, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Reading Undue Weight it applies only to opinion and viewpoints. This incident is neither an opinion nor a viewpoint. Besides, the huge media coverage across the globe makes this a big deal. Granted, it not the most important event in the history of United airlines, but looking at all the other news items in the list or the incident table with most entries not saying more than just the flight number, I cannot see how this is undue weight. If all the other items would be exclusively about important events such as bankruptcy or major air plane crashes I could unerstand that in comparison this incident pales. But that is not the case here. Maybe we should move this item to a new customer relations section, because this incident tells a lot about how the public perceives United Airlines (and other legacy carriers).