Talk:Sonny Liston

Death Date

I don't think it's valid to list his death date as a particular day when it says it was speculated 6 - 8 days before his wife found him. It doesn't make sense to list it as December 30 if this is the case. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.77.165.103 (talk) 13:36, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Except the date on his death certificate is December 30 which is why it's used the article. It's not up to us to question the coroner. See WP:V. Thanks. --Yankees76 (talk) 13:52, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes it is given that the death date is still uncertain. This is forensics in 1970 not the modern age.

Ali vs. Liston

Liston never had a proper fight with Ali he was always running away if you ask he was afraid he was tring not to serve himself embarrasment. Liston stayed on the ground for around 20 seconds How? Why? Rumors say he bet against himself because he had to give money to the Mafia He knew he couldn't beat ALi. Ali was THE Greatest. (Shabbir Bokhari)

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In 'The Phantom Punch', I replaced 'toss himself off' with 'take a dive'. 'Toss himself off' is an English euphimism for 'masturbate'. Ketlan

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I just watched the Liston-Ali fight and here's what happened: Sonny gets hit quite hard on the head. He stumbles around and keels over on his back. He tries getting up on one knee and almost tips over again. He finally gets up before the 10 count and the fight continues. Ali attacks aggressively and Liston is still too dazed to fight back, so the ref calls the fight. It didn't look like there was anything amiss at all. I think Sonny Liston later said he threw the fight because he was too embarassed to admit he went down in the first round like that. Anyway, I think the description should be changed to more accurately describe the knockout. As it is it minimalizes the hit by Ali, when in fact it looked like a devastating blow to the head. JettaMan April 24, 2006

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"The photograph of the conclusion of this fight is one of the most famous pictures in boxing history": So the article appears to be grossly misleading: it suggests a stoppage by KO, while the special article dealing with these two fights (as well as the posting above) say there was further fighting action until the referee stopped the fight!

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The sentence "It is documented that muslims from the Nation of Islam, which controlled Ali, had threatened Liston before the fight" sounds a little loony and almost certainly wrong. I removed it.

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I changed "the conclusion of this obviously fixed fight" to "the conclusion of this fight" in the 'Subsequent fights' section. The possibility of a fix is discussed later in the section, and it is of course not known whether the fight was fixed or not.

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I'm fairly sure that the black and white photo of Ali standing over Liston, with his arms by his sides is more famous than the one shown (although both are famous), so I think it should be the one mentioned. 211.28.185.39 (talk) 20:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Phantom punch

The word phantom is used incorrectly. A phantom is something that is seen but has no existence or effect. Ali's punch was the opposite. It supposedly had existence and effect, but it was not seen.Lestrade 17:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Lestrade

Most people look at Ali's left punch, which missed Liston as he was falling from Ali preceding right punch. Ali right punch, got Liston on the left temple. It was the ankor punch (this should be added). GoodDay 20:20, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

removing material

I removed the material which said:

"If you search you may find that Moe Dalitz of the Cleveland Mob, the real godfather of Las Vegas, had an argument with Liston, when Liston called Mr Dalitz dirty names. Moe Dalitz suposedly said "One phone call and you are dead in 24 hours". After all, the death is still unsolved."

If someone wants to put something in about the Cleveland Mob and Moe Dalitz, I think it should be a little less awkwardly worded. What I mean to say is that this sounds a bit loony and less neutral than it should be.

69.92.82.104 23:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

The Lewiston Rematch

There is a difference between a fight being fixed and a fighter taking a dive. A fix implies participation by both camps. However, Ali was as surprised as everyone else when Liston went down and would not have been a party to such a charade.

While I personally believe that Liston took a dive (for whatever reason), the article needs to remain neutral. While it is fair to say that the bout ended in controversy, which can be backed up, we need to be careful about calling it a fiasco, a fix, an affair, or anything else along those lines. It was a controversial ending to a title fight.

We can quote the opinions of experts in the fight game, but need to be careful about making declarations one way or the other -- or injecting our own opinions. --NameThatWorks 20:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)