Talk:Noah Webster

Webster's spellings

Was Webster really trying to make spellings more phonetic, or was he trying to make them more classic, i.e., closer to their etymons? We spell "color", "splendor", etc. the way Julius Caesar spelled them; the British do not. We write "analyze"; they write "analyse", etc.; our version is closer to the original Greek. -- Mike Hardy

American English Spellings

I think the article has the "American English" spellings wrong -- unless Webster's "American English" was the exact opposite of what's used in the U.S. today. The article currently says:

so his dictionary introduced American English spellings like "colour" instead of "color", "waggon" instead of "wagon", "centre" instead of "center", and "honour" instead of "honor".

I think that all of those words should be reversed. However, on the off-chance that what's written is correct, I didn't change anything just because it seems wrong. Can someone more knowledgeable make the call? –Kadin2048 00:08, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

The Real McCoy (er, Webster)

Webster's Online Dictionary - the Rosetta Edition is not the real "Webster's". The real Webster's has Merriam in the name. I am replacing the link.
Brooklyn Nellie (Nricardo) 06:06, Mar 24, 2004 (UTC)

Someone should really include Webster's contributions to the Constitution (his influence in the separation of church and state) and his contributions to education. The dictionary was hardly the pinacle of his life's work.

Merger?

Today I decided to work on extensive revisions to Webster's Dictionary and in poking around found a stub at Webster's New International Dictionary, Second Edition and a longer article at Webster's Third New International Dictionary. It seems to me it would be best to consolidate the second and third material at Webster's Dictionary, because it is the familiar name and it would put the history of the work, which has appeared under several names in one spot; then put in redirects under the other names. I've integrated the material at the present "Third" article with my own contributions at Webster's Dictionary. Would anyone with comments please contact me on my talk page? PedanticallySpeaking 16:40, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

Justification for Rollback

I reverted the changes User:Paton made. First, he said Webster signed the United States Declaration of Independence, but he is not listed in the signers section of that article. Second, the main body of the article dealt with the loss of trademark protection, citing the opinion of an unnamed relative of Webster. While it certainly seems wrong under modern understanding of trademark law that the Merriam Company should have lost the trademark protection, our opinions do not matter. The courts decided against the trademark decades ago and what's done is done. See the article Webster's Dictionary for more on the trademark issue. PedanticallySpeaking 15:45, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)

Anti-Federalist?

The assertion that Webster was an outspoken anti-federalist seems a bit vague if not wrong. If provided the right context it could make sense, but it contradicts most of what I'm reading about him.

For insteance, the American Minerva was a Federalist newspaper and was subsidized by Alexander Hamilton himself, according to a textbook I have. I think the assertion needs to be clear.

Why glamour?

Webster seemed to have attempted creation of phonetic spellings by dropping 'u' from words like favour, flavour, honour, etc. Glamour bucks the trend by retaining the 'u'. Are there any more such exceptions? Sudar 05:51, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe it's because its taken directly from the Scots language and not Latin like the other words you listed.

Yes, in honor &c. Webster simply restored the original Latin spellings; glamour (also formerly spelt glamer) is in origin a Scots corruption of grammar in the occult sense of the word (cf. gramarye and grimoire). It most probably should be spelt glammar but the current spelling is too well established... Tkinias 09:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I have seen it spelled both ways in American english; although "Glamor" may be a recent development. Travis Cleveland 23:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I think Webster wanted to remove the "u" between "o" and "r" in plurisyllabic words because the "u" wasn't really pronounced. Yet I did talk about how I didn't think it really was a good idea. 66.191.115.61 02:12, 25 September 2007 (UTC)Cbsteffen

Music error

I removed the mention of music non musick because it's simply not true. The OED has citations of the spelling <music> at least as far back as 1673, long before Webster. Not to mention that <music> is not exactly unique to American English! Tkinias 09:39, 12 July 2006

Painting of Noah Webster

Here's a painting I found, in case you want to use it. -- Chuck Marean 03:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Image:Painting of Noah Webster .jpg

Neutral? No.

This article is sooo anti European... Something needs to be done.

"American nationalism was superior to Europe because American values were superior, he explained." I think this sentence could be worded differently. It is jarring not to mention it sounds like a narration. It is probably what adds to the claim that this article has a POV. I don't think it serves any purpose right before the quotation that follows after it.--Roonerspism 03:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Missing stuff

Just stumbled across this article out of interest - it seems to have lost a deal of its references and categories (visible from the history). Perhaps someone knowledgeable about the subject might restore them? --Joopercoopers 13:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Alternate Spellings for Words in American English

I didn't really think Webster's ideas of dropping the "u" between "o" and "r," replacing "s" with "c" or "z," or flipping "e" and "r" around at the end of words in order to recognize American English were any good. You don't need to spell words differently to distinguish a certain form of language. -- 66.191.115.61 Cbsteffen 01:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Troll.

He isn't a troll, he is just stating an opinion. I tend to agree somewhat - I'm American and try to use all the "traditional" spellings as much as possible. Chris16447 (talk) 23:11, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

• "traditional" is a misnomer. There isn't necessarily a 'traditional' spelling; these things were in flux. In truth, a lot of spelling variations (as well as vocabulary variations) stem from the fact that many of them that were codified into American English were slightly more archaic than those codified into British English. Secondly, the idea that he necessarily 'dropped' the letters may be somewhat questionable; considering the flux thing, a some of the spellings favored in American English reflect the original Latin (honor, for example) where British English does not (and vice versa). Apologies if this is somewhat incoherent; I shouldn't be browsing wikipedia at 1:00am! Novium (talk) 08:03, 5 May 2008

Date of death

In this edit, one of the things changed was Noah Webster's date of death. No explanation was provided in the edit summary. Is there any source for this change? The new date is still in the article. —Daniel Šebesta {chat | contribs} 15:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Unaccepted Spelling changes

My Middle School History Teacher had told us that Webster went so far as to try to make the "American Language" spelled perfectly Phonetic. He used an example of the word fish being spelled like "fesch". Can someone confirm or discredit this fact for me. 71.176.134.94 (talk) 17:30, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Anecdote

I read of an anecdote that depicted Webster caught by his wife in a dalliance with the maid. His wife says "I'm surprised," to which Noah answers "You, my dear, are 'astonished,' I am 'surprised.'" I would assume this has no basis in fact, but I have no idea when this anecdote dates from. I believe I found it in James Kilpatrick, who claimed it was much older than he was. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 20:00, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Financial State

The descriptions of Webster's finances seems inconsistent. At one point it states that the royalties were sufficient to support his other pursuits but later it states that he had to mortgage his house and was plagued by debt for the rest of his life. Which is it? Is there something that I am not reading correctly? 216.157.211.214 (talk) 04:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I think somebody is joking: "It was the most popular American book of its time; by 1861, it was selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less than one cent per copy was enough to sustain Webster in his other endeavors." He had died in 1843. Åkebråke (talk) 21:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Any Relation to Black Dan?

I am wondering: Were Noah and Daniel Webster related? (Did they even know each other?) I haven't been able to find out, but: if they were, someone ought to add the exact relationship to both Websters' articles… Asteriks (talk) 21:12, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't know why but...

Reading about Webster makes me sad. Wait I do know; he did so much for american education and, well, modern educators basically ruined his work. That's just tragic.

67.148.120.105 (talk) 11:33, 10 December 2009 (UTC)stardingo747

More Secular?

In the first paragraph we have "...and made elementary education more secular and less religious". I've marked this as needing a citation for one since this claim isn't supported anywhere (yet) in the article. However, I'm raising this discussion since I discovered a quote by Webster, taken from the preface of his 1828 dictionary which reads:

"In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people."

Unless there is other evidence out there, I'm afraid that the statement in this article which claims that Webster was a secular and anti-religious influence on American education is in danger of being false. So if anybody has any evidence out there, please bring it to our attention. Otherwise I propose removing that statement.

--Davidkazuhiro (talk) 20:51, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Telegraph

At the time of Websters life, the most used form of instant long distance communication was the telegraph system. Telegraph used morse code, which is not particularly fast or efficient. Telegraph operators frequently dropped letters from words that were still understandable without the missing letter such as "Color" instead of "Colour". This was done to cut the time taken to send the message and also reduced the cost. So although Webster canonized these spellings in a dictionary, these concatenated word spellings were in widespread use for a long time before. 62.49.92.201 (talk) 12:30, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

all false--Webster was dead when the first telegraph message was sent.Rjensen (talk) 05:31, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Worldwide View

He is loved by Americans but often hated by people in Britain, Austrlaia, New Zealand, Canada and France. British people have quoted "he ruined their language", Australians, New Zealanders and Canadians are upset that the American influence has taught their children to spell incorrectly, many have also said the changes were unnecessary. The French are often offended by the changing of words of French origin (e.g. centre, aubergine etc.). Most people who learn English learn British English, with the exception of Mexico. Christians are also angry about what he did in schools.

Remember the United States are not the only country in the world, and the rest of the world's view should be expressed.