Talk:Perch

Discussion

What is the American definition of "species"?

I thought the basic distinction between species and subspecies was that cross-breeding between two species either does not produce any offspring or does not produce fertile offspring. Americans seem to have a much wider definition of species as compared to Europeans. In all of Eurasia there is only one Arcic hare (Lepus timidus) whereas in the US and Canada, this species is not only a different species, but three different species! (user: Wiglaf)

That's the general definition, but all the references I can find state that the yellow perch is (as of 2003, anyway) still considered a valid species. If you could provide a source which supports the claim that cross-breeding of yellow and European perch has resulted in viable offspring, then you've won your argument. I can't find any.

On a similar note, where did you get your weight measurement for European perch? 10.5 kilograms seems a slight too extreme; FishBase lists a max published weight of 4.75 kg.

As an aside, the classification of the discus is similarly questionable: there are two recognized species, but aquarists have known for ages that crossings will result in viable offspring. It's a murky subject, but I'd rather not disagree with the taxonomical authorities unless we can back up the discrepancy. Hadal 13:10, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Here it is: http://www.fundp.ac.be/recherche/projets/en/99275103.html According to the site (which seems reliable), cross-breeding the two stocks is a way of improving growth. You can keep the yellow perch as a separate species if you want to (I won't interfere), but in my mind it would be more "correct" to regard it as a subspecies.

The weight information comes from this link http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishfacts/fish/pfluviat.htm Apparently, it was 10.4 kg It's a reasonable maximum weight considering the fact that the European perch grows to be twice as long as the yellow perch.Wiglaf

From my interpretation, your cite seems to contradict the notion of a subspecies. Not only do they reference the yellow perch as a distinct species (Perca flavescens), they also mention the nature of the offspring produced in this research:

"... by mastering the technique for producing monosex female populations and sterile triploids"

The above quote may only be referencing the non-hybrid European perch stocks, but either way it's not clear. There is no mention of viable offspring, unless I'm missing something. The only point which is explicitly stated is that of heterosis in the hybrids. A hybrid can be valuable to the aquaculture industry even if it's sterile; take the tiger muskellunge as but one example.

As for the weight measurement, I suspect it may be a typo but I won't argue it for now. All of these sources: [1], [2], [3], [4] may be wrong, and I've mentioned the discrepancy for others to check if they see fit. Hadal 14:17, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Sure, do as you please. I was only trying to contribute. I am sorry if it wasn't worth much. Wiglaf

You have! Your contributions are worthy and greatly appreciated, and you've raised an excellent question. It still isn't completely clear whether the two species are truly distinct or not. I'm simply concerned about siding with one camp over the other based on a somewhat vague reference. I'll reword the entry to read something like "although recognized as a distinct species, some consider the yellow perch to be a subspecies of European perch". How's that sound? Hadal 14:33, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It sounds fine! Thanks! The question of whether a population is a subspecies or a species is sometimes more a question of convention (as in the case of the discus fish). If most authorities regard them as two distinct species, it is probably the most correct way of defining them. Wiglaf

It gets worse - in the plant world there are viable crosses between different genera(!), such as in orchids. Taxonomy can be a murky subject, and you can find plenty of heated arguments in the literature. Stan 14:50, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

If the type species is Perca fluvialatis, then why does the article state that it is usually know as the Yellow Perch? USA is not the whole world. In addition to that, why mention that three species are commonly recognised and then list a handful?82.6.1.85 (talk) 23:19, 6 October 2010 (UTC)Lance Tyrell

Trivia?

I don't think the perch trivia should be here at all. Perch and Bass have very similar names in German. (barsch vs. seebarsch ) Bush is known to have stocked his lake with Largemouth Bass. Reuters translated his speech with perch, AP used bass. 7.5 pounds is nowhere near a record, but is a satisfying catch. This "trivia" is mildly interesting, but it really has nothing to do with perch. Perhaps it could be moved to the largemouth bass page or the Red Herring page. If anyone concurs, I will delete it here.Juneappal 22:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I concur with its deletion. This was an innocent translation error and though there was humor in it, does in fact have little to do with perch. I don't think it should be moved anywhere else either though, since though it is mildly interesting right now, the concept itself overall is so benign and uninteresting that it probably does wikipedia a disservice by having it included.

I verified the largemouth bass quote at whitehouse.gov and I'm moving it to that page, let them delete it there. --Our Bold Hero 02:00, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Bad / wrong linking

Genus Perca in English is linked to Specie Perca fluviatilis in Italian and Spanish. This linking is not correct and should be changed to reflect the relationship between a genus and one of its species.

ICE77 -- 84.223.77.125 21:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

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Why are the Australian fish on here?

The article is about the genus Perca, no? So why are the Australian, non-Perca, fish listed in the "species" section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wabofiur (talk • contribs) 12:27, 9 May 2010 (UTC)