Talk:Muammar Gaddafi

confidence

Friends at Wikipedia: I looked up Gaddafi of Libya to find unbiased information about Coronel Gaddafi and the government he has created there, and I found that the events and situations in the article were described in such loaded and judgemental vocabulary that 1. it was impossible to know in most instances what actually had happened in the events recounted, and 2. I had no confidence at all in what the article was saying. I am an educated and thoughtful person, I have worked as a reporter and editor in both radio and print media in my life so I have a pretty good sense of the use of unbiased and neutral as versus biased and slanted language. Here I just wanted to find out the bare facts about Gaddafi and his policies to judge for myself since I sense a distortion about Gaddafi in the media at present(2011). Your article was just recently changed (3/2011), and it seeems that the same distortion I sense in the media at large has inflitrated this content and that the recent changes actually re"framed" the information into an anti Gadaffi- Gadaffi-is-a-monster terms to the extent that I have no confidence even in the facts recounted there. This is exasperating and disconcerting as I have always sought Wikipedia for at least the basics on the topic in neutral, unbiased terms. I am also very annoyed, because I am still uninformed about Gaddafi and his programs and have to look elsewhere to get the basics I was looking to Wikipedia for. Ljkreporting (talk) 17:44, 13 March 2011 (UTC)Linda Krausen. CA, USA

Without question it is most likely biased, due to language differences, media bias, political differences, and a host of other reasons. The solution to fixing it is something I can't answer for you. If there are particular parts that seem inaccurate to you, it might help to mention those here. But, as with any leader in his position, Gaddafi is bound to be demonized by some and deified by others. Getting a truly accurate and unbiased picture might be close to impossible. -- Avanu (talk) 18:18, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're going to have to be specific if you want things to change on an article like this. The problem is it is an extremely active article at the moment, lots of people are contributing and not everything that is making it in meets Wikipedia guidelines. TastyCakes (talk) 23:02, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

That's why the External links section is so important for a controversial subject currently in the news. Unfortunately we've had some partisans 'scrubbing' that section to minimize various views. We can only write so much in one article (and in a relatively short time), so additional sources are important. Flatterworld (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Violence around the world

The title itself practically begs the reader to assume violence on his part, when much of the material could be better placed on the Libyan foreign relations article. I took out much of the material that was out of placebecause some of it is speculation (suspicion that he financed FARC, some of it is better-attributed to his regime (Libyan agents in Munich, Libyan agents in West Berlin), and some of it disobeys POV outright (he trained a leader that was later convicted of genocide.--Screwball23 talk 20:43, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Uprising

The last paragraph gives the impression that Gaddafi is losing in his fight against the rebels. 'After having lost control of much of his country"...this obviously is not the case. Gaddafi has actually regained all the significant cities and towns around Tripoli and west of Tripoli with the exception of Benghazi in the east (Which he never really controlled anyway). This is not original research, every credible newspapaer from the new york times to the washington post has reported Gaddafi's resurgence. 70.17.61.226 (talk) 05:22, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

it should be reworded to reflect the reality on the ground. 70.17.61.226 (talk) 05:24, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Suggested split

[A recent proposal has been made to move much of this page to] Libya under Gaddafi

I support this move. I do believe some summary should be made and kept on this page, but how much is difficult to know. For one thing, if the section is trimmed down to a summary, editors will continue to add detailed information onto the page that is more related to Libya than Gaddafi. It is also difficult to separate his life from the country because so much of Libya's international policies and image has been Gaddafi-based. There is also a major difficulty in separating information about Gaddafi from Libyan policy, as some things (supplying terrorists, for instance, have both Libya's action component and the Gaddafi's diplomatic component, where he may have made political statements)--Screwball23 talk 03:46, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

yes, well, this article generally needs cleanup. It is a good collection of raw material, but it isn't a coherent encyclopedia article. The first thing to do will be to consider how to arrange the table of contents. Seeing that Gaddafi has been in power for most of his life now, it isn't really opportune to keep a "Gaddafi in power" section and stuff anything that happened over the past 42 years in there.

It will be better to divide material topically, keeping a brief "History of Libya under Gaddafi" summary, but distributing material pertaining to Gaddafi personally under other sections, such as "personal wealth", "political ideology and public appearances", "cult of personality", "suppression of critics and opposition", etc. Or in other words, the Libya under Gaddafi article is necessarily going to have significant topical overlap with this one, but the "Libya" article should focus on the history of Libya as a country, and this article should focus on Gaddafi as an individual autocrat. --dab (𒁳) 09:05, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

The autograph

This is not an autograph. it simply reads "تحياتي" (my greetings in Arabic). I would suggest removing it. Rafy talk 13:29, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Go ahead. I wasn't aware, my apologies. Connormah (talk) 13:32, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

minor edit request

Came here from the main page, and noticed a spelling/grammar error in the public image section "In September 2008, U.S. Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice became the first Secretary of State to visited Libya since 1953 and said about the visit; "It demonstrates that when countries are prepared to make strategic changes in direction, the United States is prepared to respond."" Needs to be changed to visit. Thanks 96.29.135.80 (talk) 04:49, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Done. Good call. --John (talk) 05:13, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Faisal Zagallai error

Faisal Zagallai was not studying at the University of Colorado in Boulder, as the article states, but was studying at Colorado State University in Fort Collins. Here is one article as a source, but there are many others: http://www.westword.com/2011-03-03/news/moammar-gadhafi-colorado-history/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.200.108.18 (talk) 18:48, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

"Stutter" in Audio File

Anybody else experiencing this? On playing Ar-Muammar_al-Qaddafi.ogg, any time I replay the pronunciation I hear "MuamMuammar al-Qaddafi". IfYouDoIfYouDon't (talk) 21:03, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Name with vowels and gemination marks

I Think that under "Name", the arabic name should appear with all vowel and gemination marks: مُعَمَّر ٱلْقَذَّافِيّ. Maybe it'll be good to do the same in the begining of the article.--גמדקנאי (talk) 00:19, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Better coverage of pre-rule life

The coverage of Gaddafi's life before he came to power is very poor. It would be nice if there was clearer discussion of what Gaddafi actually did, as opposed to discussion of what socio-political status of rising officers in the Libyan army. Also it would be nice if someone were able to present a diffinitive discussion of where in Brittain, if anywhere, Gaddafi studied.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:31, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I looked up a couple of things: He overthrew the United Kingdom of Libya and established the Libyan Arab Republic. He supported the Palestine Liberation Organization, and the use of oil prices for Arab self-defense. He nationalized Libyan banks and the oil industry and required businesses in Libya be owned by Lybyans.<ref>pp. 112-113, ''Funk & Wagnalls New Encyclopedia, Volume 16.'' 1983. ISBN 0-8343-0051-6</ref>In February of 2011, demonstrators waving the flag of the United Kingdom of Libya seized the city of Benghazi and got support from England, France and then the United States, because President Gadhafi responded using the military rather than the police.<ref>A-1,4,&5, ''The Wall Street Journal.'' March 19, 2011. News Corporation.</ref> I hope that helps.69.3.114.87 (talk) 18:04, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Just found out some more: On 19 March 2011 UK, the US and France fired on people in vehicles in Libya. The Cruise missiles were from the US.<ref>BBC. 19 March 2011. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12796972</ref>69.3.114.87 (talk) 20:33, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Also, found a brief summary of it all in The New York Times. Basically, it says: In the U.S. his name is still spelled Muammar el-Qaddafi and the U.K. and U.S. governments have opposed him for years for being a socalist and too tough and have accused him of terrorist attacks, and the the U.K. and U.S. killed innocent Libyans in response to the accusations, which were denied by Qaddafi. Also, since Reagan the U.S. has been training troops to overthrow him for being.<nowiki></nowoki> {{subst:UnsignedIP|1=69.3.114.87|2=21:31, 19 March 2011 (UTC)}}

Edit request from 24.143.105.148, 20 March 2011

Please change "the countries various secret services" to "the countries' various secret services", or "the various countries' secret services (this seems more accurate)" In either case, possessive plural calls for "s, apostrophe" ~~~~ done. -- ~~~~ {{subst:Unsigned|1=Avanu|2=04:20, 20 March 2011 (UTC)}}

"Abu Minyar" is part of his name

His name includes "Abu Minyar" between the Muammar and Muhammad parts, as evident by some sources. Can someone re-add them please? -- ~~~~

Images of Gaddafi with other people

This is a delicate topic from an obvious reason: Any person who is presented on an image alongside Gaddafi and on friendly terms with him, is likely to suffer in terms of his or her reputation.

Example: At the time I'm writing this message, Gaddafi is shown alongside presidents of Serbia and Russia. These two people have never had special relations with him. (To my knowledge, no one has ever claimed they did.)

Possible lines of action I can suggest:

a) To present no images of Gaddafi with other people

b) To present images of people who have played important, massive roles in his life. For example, family members and close colleagues.

c) to present images of Gaddafi with people of moderate significance for him, who are also dead for quite some time. For example, Nasser and Tito, whom he admired and somewhat emulated.

d) present images of meetings between Gaddafi and other people that were not a matter of personal choice. For example, General Secretaries of the UN have to deal with anyone, they can't boycott a statesman.

e) images (of this type) that help illustrate the multifaceted, controversial aspect of politics/life, AND the persons' reputations are fairly unlikely to suffer. For example, Nelson Mandela met Gaddafi numerous times, and defended his choice as morally valid.

Thanks for your attention

~~~~ {{subst:Unsigned|1=Ernesto Gabriele|2=17:14, 20 March 2011 (UTC)}}

Move/name section?

Watching the news in one single day I've seen three romanized rendering of "this guy's" name, and Wikipedia added a 4th (Gaddafi)

I know it's very English centric, but this is an English wiki. Why not include a section on spelling? And potentially consider moving the page to Moammar El-Gadhafi or just changing to "Gadhafi" as that seems to be how his people are want to spell his name according to this[1] probably not authoritative source.

Anyway, I'm surprised there is no mention of spelling even on the talk page. It seems to suggest the article was written largely by a single individual. Redirects are also not present.--~~~~

Move/name section?

Watching the news in one single day I've seen three romanized rendering of "this guy's" name, and Wikipedia added a 4th (Gaddafi)

I know it's very English centric, but this is an English wiki. Why not include a section on spelling? And potentially consider moving the page to Moammar El-Gadhafi or just changing to "Gadhafi" as that seems to be how his people are want to spell his name according to this[2] probably not authoritative source.

Anyway, I'm surprised there is no mention of spelling even on the talk page. It seems to suggest the article was written largely by a single individual. Redirects are also not present.--~~~~