Talk:Kennedy Space Center

Removal of the reference to Jules Verne

This is a comment on the edit I performed, dated 08:48, 27 July 2005 which removed the following from the "History" section:

"In 1865 Jules Verne first described in his novel From the Earth to the Moon the launch of a rocket from Cape Canaveral."

The reason for this edit is that the Columbiad (the name of the giant cannon used to fire a crewed canon shell to the moon) was not based in Cape Canaveral. It was indeed based in florida, in a fictional location called stone hill, just south of Lake Okeechobee. An illustration from the original edition shows its location, and can be found on the following page:

http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/talune/talune_chap11.html

The idea that Jules Verne based his fictional moon expedition in the same location that would be used a century later in the Apollo programme is very seductive but nonetheless inaccurate. It is in the interest of factual accuracy that this scentence was edited from the article.

Requested move

John F. Kennedy Space Center → Kennedy Space Center – Although it is officially named John F. Kennedy Space Center, by far the most commonly used name is Kennedy Space Center. Naming conventions state that the most common usage should be used, so this page should be moved to comply. GW_Simulations_{User Page | Talk} 21:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Survey

• Support Its been a while since I lived in Orlando, but I seem to recall that even the people workin at the Space Center called it the Kennedy Space Center. TomStar81 22:59, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose I believe that the official name might be more appropriate. "Kennedy Space Center" redirects here so people can't miss the page.--Húsönd 00:50, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose - as the common name is just a shortening of the full name, it is better to use the full name here. -- Beardo 03:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
• Support: use common name. Bubba ditto 00:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
• Support: Per nom. Even the map picture at the top of the article says "Kennedy Space Center". —Wknight94 (talk) 03:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

• I could go either way, but it's usually abbreviated as KSC, and sometimes referred to as Cape Canaveral. 132.205.44.134 04:12, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

"Beans are Go!" at KSC

I would like to see someone do a section on the human touch to the operations at KSC. For example, see this article: http://enterfiringroom.ksc.nasa.gov/funFactBeans.htm

Why Cape Canaveral?

I'd like to see it explained why Cape Canaveral was chosen for the Kennedy Space Center. --Criticalthinker 06:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

KSC is there because CCAFS was there. That article says,

The area had been used by the government since 1949 when President Harry S. Truman established the Joint Long Range Proving Grounds at Cape Canaveral to test missiles. The location was among the best in continental USA for this purpose as it allowed for launches out toward the Atlantic Ocean, and it was closer to the equator than most other parts of the United States allowing for rockets to get a boost from the earth's rotation.

(sdsds - talk) 16:07, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I think they above explanation from the [CCAFS] article should some how be incorperated into the history section of this article. posted by eastadam 10/12/09 0215 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.71.137 (talk) 06:19, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Why is Cape Canaveral not a perfect location

The rotation velocity of the earth at equator is 465.11 m/s. There is a trigonometric relation between the latitude of an area on earth and the rotation velocity of this area. Rotation velocity of a point on earth = 465.11 * cos latitude of that point. For a latitude of 28° as in Cape Canaveral the factor cos 28° is about 88%. For a latitude of 5° as in Kourou the factor cos 5° is about 99.6%. This tranlates in a rotation velocity eastward of about 405 m/s in Cape Canaveral and about 465 m/s in Kourou. Sending satellites to geostationary transfer orbit (GTO) requests less adjustement in the course if the launching site is near the equator. I have no recent numbers but a few years ago Arianespace held more than 50 percent of the world market for boosting satellites to GTO. Russian built Soyuz rockets are to be launched from Kourou in late 2008. --Ridow 10:00, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Great math! Unfortunately in Wikipedia 2+2 does not = 4, unless an editor can find a reference which says so! Sorry. Student7 12:20, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Great job to be done! There is a couple of milions of formulations in WP without a reference. Please warm up with all the parts in the Kennedy Space Center article without a reference.--Ridow 15:17, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree (a bit late here, sorry). It does seem unfair to us later editors to make us put references on stuff when the original editors got away with placing a couple of references at the bottom. The best thing to do is to be an originator of an article! Get away with more! :) I do mostly place references on all my stuff, particularly when I'm inserting one-liners. I really do try with new articles, too (seeing what happened in the bad old days). Please help maintain the credibility of Wikipedia articles by (in turn) challenging other editors. This is why and how I started. Other editors challenged my statements! Thanks for your contribution (even though it got moved). Student7 16:25, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Most of this belongs in the CCAFS article, not the KSC article. The only orbits currently of interest for KSC are ISS rendezvous and Hubble rendezvous. That's because currently only the Shuttle launches from KSC, and those are the only two destinations for any of the remaining Shuttle flights. Discussion of the site's characteristics for launching into equatorial geostationary orbit is not pertinent to the article. (Perhaps starting a ==Future use== section, where it could have some pertinence, makes sense?) Also, although the math is logical, it isn't iron-clad, e.g. it does not include potential atmospheric effects. In any case the desirability of low latitudes and east-facing coastlines for geostationary launch sites should be easy to reference. Maybe the spaceport article would be a good place for it? (sdsds - talk) 16:00, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Sdsds. The name of the section was Current use so maybe my contribution is not at the right place. But I think that the absence of such launches from KSC is in part explained by the advantage of the geographic location of Kourou over KSC. That why I see these small formulations as part of the KSC article. (The other explanation is the abscence of a US launcher able to match the offering of Arianespace but it's an other problem). What do you think?--Ridow 16:23, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I've put a reference with American measurements to please the readers. --Ridow 16:27, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

As the articles on Cape Canaveral and Cape Canaveral Air Force Station note, the US wanted a location on the mainland US for logistics reasons. South Florida was already well-populated (Miami - Palm Beach). Cape Canaveral offered a large area of undeveloped or lightly-developed and -populated land, with the Cape ("projection of land into the ocean") offering less risk to populated areas. Perhaps not perfect, but everything is a trade-off. It was the best balance of factors. Unimaginative Username (talk) 01:23, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:46, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Budget

We have nothing about budget in here. Fl Today, 1/23/08 had editorial with $70,000 ave per worker, $600 million payroll. $4 billion economic impact on Florida. Doesn't seem to fit neatly in article. These factoids seema a bit too jerky for "prime time." Need something more cohesive. Student7 (talk) 17:01, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

• I'm not sure, but it might be difficult to get a KSC specific budget. Consider adding an economic impact sentence(s) for the area instead. Just an idea. -Fnlayson (talk) 17:14, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Spaceport USA

When I visited in 1987, the Visitor's Center (citeable by their souvenir literature) was branded as Spaceport USA. Did they change the name back, and is their any history about this branding issue? MMetro (talk) 22:03, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

At that time, the Visitor Center was operated by a different contractor, TW Services. When the current contractor took over in May of 1995, the changed the name to Kennedy Space Center Visitor Center. Then later to Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex. Unfortunately, I don't have the dates of the name changes. Safiel (talk) 07:34, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

They have there own police force.

Figure this is worth posting. The Kennedy Space center does have its own police force, complete with an ERT, and Huey helicopters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.231.239.198 (talk) 19:32, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect date info

The article says the center was renamed after President Kennedy on on November 19, 1963, which is 3 days before his death. This is an obvious error that should be corrected. I cannot find a verifiable source that correctly identifies the date, and have therefore tagged this sentence as needing verification. Can someone please help resolve this? Truthanado (talk) 12:19, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

On November 28, 1963 President Lyndon B. Johnson announced in a televised address that Cape Canaveral would be renamed Cape Kennedy in memory of President John F. Kennedy, who was assassinated six days earlier. President Johnson said the name change had been sanctioned by the U.S. Board of Geographic Names.

Executive Order Number 11129, issued by President Johnson on November 29, 1963 decreed that the NASA Launch Operations Center (LOC), including facilities on Merritt Island and Cape Canaveral, would be renamed the John F. Kennedy Space Center, NASA. That name change officially took effect on December 20, 1963.

The Air Force subsequently changed the name of the Cape Canaveral Missile Test Annex to Cape Kennedy Air Force Station (CKAFS). That name change took somewhat longer, but became official on January 22, 1964. KStrohm (talk) 01:12, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

LC-41 in KSC?

The map shows LC-41 on the Cape Canaveral A.F. Station rather than KSC. But when I took the "Then and Now" tour a few days ago, we were going north on the road and before we got to LC-41, the guide said that we were back on KSC. Also, the Guided Tours booklet they gave us gives LC-41 as KSC, not the Cape. What is correct? Bubba73 ^{(You talkin' to me?)}, 17:25, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

• SLC-41 is part of CCAFS, it always has been. It isn't even a NASA pad. --GW… 17:59, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

KSC map

KSC map

That is what I thought. This map from the KSC tour booklet shows 41 on KSC, and the map for the Cape shows 40 as the nothern-most pad at the Cape. Bubba73 ^{(You talkin' to me?)}, 19:06, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

All I can say is that your map is clearly wrong. --GW… 21:12, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The tour guide thought 41 was on KSC too, so it was OK for us to take pictures again. On the Cape, we could not take pictures except when the bus stopped. Bubba73 ^{(You talkin' to me?)}, 22:43, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

VAB

The intro says that the VAB is the 4th largest structure by volume. In the 1960s, my memory is that it was the largest, but I don't have a reference for that. If it can be referenced, the article could state that it was the largest at the time it was built. Bubba73 ^{(You talkin' to me?)}, 00:14, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Found a reference to this in the congressional record. However the claim that it's the 4th largest needs to be referenced. I'm finding mention of it being the 2nd largest but those are a bit old.--RadioFan (talk) 17:11, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Allanhurst

There's an interesting bit of background about the black community of Allanhurst, which the KSC replaced, here:

http://www.prx.org/pieces/41113/transcripts/104153

I'd like to start a section on that in the wikipedia page, but I'm not sure if this is a good enough cite, and I've never started a section, I usually just do bit edits. Any thoughts?

Baron ridiculous (talk) 21:20, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

My first impulse is to say, no, this public radio transcript is not good enough, by itself, for such a potentially controversial edit. First off, a quick Google search shows the town's name is spelled Allenhurst. It apparently was founded by a white man named Allen decades earlier, but I saw no reference to it being an all-black community. I found its location on both Mapquest and Google maps, and it's quite a ways north of KSC proper (VAB and the launch pads). It's separated from this by a wildlife refuge, and is part of the land NASA, the Air Force and the Army Corps of Engineers deemed necessary to keep uninhabited for safety reasons, based on the expected design of a Nova super-rocket, which could have been up to five times as powerful as the Saturn V that was actually developed (imagine being under that if it blew up or went off course!)

There were other towns affected as well, some a bit farther north. Did you decide to single out Allenhurst because of Jemison identifying it as an "all-black community"?

The history of how NASA acquired the land is given in Moonport http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4204/contents.html , chapter 5 (start at the Merritt Island Purchace section.) Lots of property owners (not identified by race) were unhappy; the history section could probably use some expansion, but please remember to be mindful of WP:NPOV and WP:BALANCE. This radio piece seems to be based on anecdotal evidence, with an obvious bias (as the title Race and the Space Race) shows. I couldn't seem to find when it was broadcast. I think you need additional sources to verify if an entirely black community was displaced, and facts to verify how and to what extent black residents were affected.

Since ex-astronaut Mae Jemison participated in this broadcast, perhaps mention of it might fit in her article.

Looks like you have a bit of research to do. Good luck. JustinTime55 (talk) 21:51, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. No, I'd heard of Allenhurst when I was in high school in Florida, I worked with some black guys at Sears who told me that black citrus grove landowners in Allenhurst had been forced out for pennies on the dollar when NASA moved in. Of course, they also told me the moon landings were faked, so a grain of salt and all that, but it was a pretty well known story in the black community in the Cape Canaveral region in the 70s, I think. I'll look into it some more.

Baron ridiculous (talk) 02:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)