Talk:Ray of Light

Track title?

Is it "Shanti/Ashtangi" or "Shanti/Ashanti"? Both appear in the article. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 19:48, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

The song title you refer to has the "g". I have the US edition CD myself and checked. The Madonna Lyrics Archive has the "g" as well; the guy who runs that site is a walking National Archives (IMHO) when it comes to Madonna. - Thanks, Hoshie |

Certifications

I can cite sources for the U.S., Canada, the UK, etc., but cannot for the following countries. If someone can back these claims up then they can be added back into the article. -- Underneath-it-All 02:00, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Country	Certification
Austria	2x Platinum
Belgium	Platinum
Brazil	3x Platinum
Greece	2x Platinum
Hong Kong	Platinum
Ireland	7x Platinum
Italy	6x Platinum
Mexico	2x Platinum
Nederlands	3x Platinum
Norway	2x Platinum
Poland	2x Platinum
Singapore	3x Platinum
Spain	3x Platinum
Sweden	3x Platinum

When adding new certifications, please cite where you got the information from. Thanks. -- Underneath-it-All 23:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Re-write

I have done a massive re-write on the article, expanding sections and such. I feel I need to add a few more things to it and then will nominate it for good article status. -- Underneath-it-All 02:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Good editing. Jkelly 02:03, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks so much! -- Underneath-it-All 02:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Madonnavillage.com does not exist anymore, so those references are incorrect now. 84.2.202.192 (talk) 01:11, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

GA promotion

Great work, this to get better :

• The external links in the table should be placed as footnotes.
• Needs more references.
• I would rework the lead. Lincher 03:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Album Sales

The following are sites have show the different album sales of Madonna: http://www.beautifulmadonna.com/charts/albumven.html = 17m, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Top-Biggest-Selling-Madonna-Albums/lm/37BXBHN8JKB68 = 15m, http://charts.mlvc.org/CHThist.php = 15m, http://www.world4madonna.com/charts/ = 14m, http://www.madonna.com/home/ = 14m, http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=41261&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 = 12.46m. The first link is always considerably higher for all sales, so likely to be overly inflated. The concensus being between 14 - 15 million.

GA review

I've listed this article at Wikipedia:Good article review#Ray of Light because it is underreferenced. 17Drew 04:54, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Issues appear to have been addressed, therefore the article shall retain GA. Regards, Lara♥Love 21:51, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Track listing

The track listing is done according to Wikipedia standard. --Gunsfornuns (talk) 10:54, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Move?

Should we move the page to avoid confusion with Ray of Light (Michael Wong album)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.180.0.88 (talk) 12:07, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

This article has been renamed from Ray of Light (Madonna album) to Ray of Light as the result of a move request.

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was - unopposed move as most notable article for this title. Keith D (talk) 22:04, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Ray of Light (Madonna album) → Ray of Light — The disambiguation page is not needed, as the 'Michael Wong' album is far less notable, and was perfectly fine as a disabiguation link at the top (which still remains). Additionally, the page was moved without discussion. —Asdfasdf1231234 (talk) 17:27, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Support per nominator. Old move not necessary. Nobrains atoll (talk) 04:31, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
• Support I'm all for disambiguation, but when there is an overwhelmingly more common usage, that should be the main article. -Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:38, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
• Support. Michael Wong should be re-examined under WP:NOTABILITY. Reqluce (talk) 20:19, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
• No harm in this move since the Michael Wong album will still be accessible with one extra click. However, methinks "Michael Wong should be re-examined under WP:NOTABILITY" seems an extreme case of Geo-bias. — AjaxSmack 03:27, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Critical Reception

Ok, the E! quote about the "yoga stretch" is poking FUN at Madonna's newfound "depth." It's about as deep as a yoga stretch, get it? Then it goes on to say that, for Madonna, that's deeper than usual, and it sounds good, so more power to her. It's a backhanded compliment, but I changed the wording because the way it was written before (literally) it seemed the author of the article was egregiously missing the point and saying that E! thought the lyrics were profound. E! is saying they are about as profound as a yoga stretch! Literally, it says that. So we mustn't take it at face value as evidence that her newfound spirituality was universally praised by critics. E! just thought she made a good pop record, but the gist of the comment is: "it ain't poetry" and "it ain't scripture." "Trendy" spiritualism is another clue that they are belittling her effort at being "deep." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.38.49.5 (talk) 10:38, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Ray of Light/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

GA Sweeps: On hold

As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing Sweeps to determine if the article should remain a Good article. I went through the article and made various changes, please look them over. I believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a GA. However, in reviewing the article, I have found there are several issues that needs to be addressed.

Needs citations:

1. "Madonna performed "Drowned World/Substitute for Love", "Ray of Light", "Candy Perfume Girl", "Sky Fits Heaven", "Frozen", and "Mer Girl" on her 2001 Drowned World Tour; "Frozen" on her 2004 Re-Invention World Tour; "Ray of Light" and "Drowned World/Substitute for Love" on her 2006 Confessions Tour and "Ray of Light" on her 2008 Sticky & Sweet Tour."
2. "Slant Magazine described the album as "one of the great pop masterpieces of the '90s...Madonna hasn't been this emotionally candid since Like a Prayer.""
3. "The song was nominated for "Record of the Year" at the 1999 Grammy Awards, but lost to Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Go On.""
4. "The last three music videos were filmed with the lip-synched audio at 2x slower-2x faster than the original audio and were later edited to make the mouthing of the words the same as the original song, which would then give it the slow-motion or fast-motion effects."

Other issues:

1. The soundtrack image is lacking a source.
2. Multiple citations only include the title. Citations should also include author, date, publisher, access date, etc. The citation templates at WP:CITET can help with formatting.
3. Per the new conventions at WP:ALBUM, the links in the infobox for the reviews need to be converted to citations.
4. There are multiple dead links that need to be fixed. The Internet Archive can help.

This article covers the topic well. I will leave the article on hold for seven days, but if progress is being made and an extension is needed, one may be given. If no progress is made, the article may be delisted, which can then later be renominated at WP:GAN. I'll contact all of the main contributors and related WikiProjects so the workload can be shared. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 18:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your wonderful evaluation. But can you please give me 3 days of time after which I can start working on your points? Im in the middle of some massive GA development thats why:) --Legolas ^(talk2me) 05:55, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

 Done--Legolas ^(talk2me) 06:17, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

GA Sweeps: Kept

Good work addressing the issues. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good Article. I went through the article and made a few more changes, please look them over. Continue to improve the article making sure all new information is properly sourced and neutral. It would be beneficial to update the access dates for all of the online sources. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 07:13, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Shanti cover

I heard a cover of "Shanti/Ashtangi" in the first season of Heroes. Can't find anywhere about it. Does anyone know about it?--Nauki (talk) 13:27, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid Wikipedia is not a forum where you can ask stuff about where a download is available. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 03:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I didn't ask for a download, I asked for information on a cover to a Madonna song.--Nauki (talk) 09:34, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Christgau

I want to add Robert Christgau critic () link to the infobox, I'm asking this because there's sometimes when other users refuse Christgau's own system. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 05:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

You can definitely add it as his reviews are quite reverred. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 05:49, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Could someone please explain to me, Ray of Light was stated that has sold 20 million copies according from BBC, but that's news was release in 1998.... is more than 12 years ago.... is this reliable..? please explain to me.... thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.167.36.154 (talk) 05:12, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Genre

Just to open it up for discussion, I've added a cite to that genre in the infobox. An anonymous IP continues to revert it and leaves attacks on my talk page. Since the information she's adding is not sourced or mentioned in the article, I'll keep it to the cited version. Andrzejbanas (talk) 09:34, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed the IPs disruption. Try for WP:RFP first, let me deal with that bloody trouble maker Andrez. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 10:03, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Hope you get around to Like a Prayer soon btw!Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Allmusic is not reliable, they list rammstein as progressive metal, I can't get that!!! 201.43.149.83 (talk) 11:19, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Find other sources then. I've kept it as plain as possible and no on else is objecting. Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, because the genre of this album is MUCH more than just pop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.130.69.132 (talk) 05:03, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

The 90s: The Inside Stories From the Decade That Rocked

According to the "The 90s: The Inside Stories From the Decade That Rocked" book released recently by Rolling Stone, "Ray of Light" is #28 in the list of 100 best 90s album.

Does anyone own the book, in order to add the source in the article?

Thank you :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.194.152.93 (talk) 05:10, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

File:Madonna-brent-murray.jpg Nominated for Deletion

	An image used in this article, File:Madonna-brent-murray.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Deletion requests May 2011 What should I do?
	A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. This notification is provided by a Bot, currently under trial --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 15:19, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Legacy

Should be added a legacy section, this album is very important to pop music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.0.136.66 (talk) 15:48, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Legacy section is well written and well sourced, good work.MilkStraw532 (talk) 00:51, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Does this still meets the GA criteria?

I'm worried with this article, because Ray of Light is a such a great album, and this seems to have most of the information about it. However, there are several citations without sources, the Recording and Legacy sessions aren't complete, and the promotion section could be expanded with more info about promotion around the world (apart from tour and singles). Further comments are appreciated. - Saulo ^{Talk to Me} 00:44, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Besides those few adjustments, this is a really good page and i think it meats GA criteria.MilkStraw532 (talk) 00:50, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

The references are an absolute mess. Lots which are completely unformatted. The article looks a bit messy too, quite unorganized and not structured. Too many pictures as well. Calvin • ^NaNaNaC'mon! 00:53, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

The references have deteriorated over the months, but that can be dealt with easily. The biggest issue is the lack of content and verifiability. The article I feel can most certainly be expanded. It goes into a mew few sentences on recording, without discussing the album's themes and genres. The images look fine, to me; three pictures is perfectly okay for an article of this length and adds value to the page. WP:LAYOUT needs to be revised here as well, per Calvin's comments. In short, no, the article does not fully meet WP:GACR, but the appropriate action to take can be questionable. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 01:08, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

In my opinion, there is no need to delist this. If someone can volunteer (after all Wikipedia is a collaborative effort) to fix the issues mentioned above, it should remain as a GA. I do agree that there are many problems with the references and various citations are needed. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 01:43, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree with everyone above. I think it still meets the criteria, just needs cleanup. Novice7 (talk) 03:27, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Um, shouldn't Legolas be notified about this? Xwomanizerx (talk) 05:25, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, since he helped the article get through GAR. I'll notify him. Novice7 (talk) 05:57, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

He hasn't been online for weeks and hasn't made an effort to continue anything that he had previously started before 'leaving'. Someone else will have to do this. Calvin • ^NaNaNaC'mon! 12:24, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Just because the article technically doesn't meet the current criteria, I don't think it is fair to De-list. Legolas and others have worked hard on it, and I think with a little effort and push from a few editors (nicely put Jivesh! :)) we can fix the issue.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 22:16, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Aww thanks. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 10:45, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

I can try and help, maybe. I would need help of other editors and of course, it would take some time. Novice7 (talk) 04:23, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Agree with Jivesh. And it seems everybody's responding. But might as well put this on another GAR where to discuss stuffs to fix. Thanks. --Efe (talk) 10:36, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Aww thanks. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 10:45, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Guys, can you give me a week or so? I'm trying to expand this article and add refs (User:Novice7/Ray of Light). Thanks, Novice7 (talk) 11:00, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

My intention was never to delist this article. It's just that this was so important for pop music, and I was sad that the article had so many unsourced info. I don't have any Madonna books, and my short time on Wikipedia is mostly dedicated to Britney articles, so I couldn't do the changes myself. Thanks Jivesh, Novice7, and everyone that answered. :) - Saulo ^{Talk to Me} 19:05, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

We know my friend. And you are welcome. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 03:32, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Sales of 'Ray of Light'

There is some confusion about the sales of Ray of Light. It had been 20 million, then 16, and now again 20. The first section on the page says 20, and 'chart performance' says 16. This needs to be verified, fixed, and be in correlation with the entire page, and other correlating pages of Madonna.

Thegirlieshow (talk) 09:10, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

The album

THE BEST ALBUM EVER!!!! I'm A Sinner (talk) 02:50, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Ray Of Light sales = over 20 million!

Latest official sources put Ray Of Light's worldwide sales at over 20 million! Here is a scan of a production sheet handed out at the 'MDNA' listening party on Wednesday 7th March 2012: http://www.madonnalicious.com/images/extra/2012/mdna_playback_madonnalicious4.jpg

No, Madonna and her production people are not a reliable source for album sales. Binksternet (talk) 17:55, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

and how about this sources...? can you beat this?.. 39.208.99.175 (talk) 12:01, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

http://www.vh1.com/music/tuner/2012-03-30/madonnas-top-11-controversies-and-how-they-helped-her-succeed-commercially/

The problem with all of these is that the numbers don't add up, the numbers from individual countries and sales regions. It appears to me that the reporters writing these articles simply copied the "20 million" figure down from each other or from Wikipedia. Who first came up with it and how?

• The Absolute Madonna fansite says 15 million.
• The Madonna Nation fansite says 16 million.
• The Guardian says 16 million: "Orbit switches from Madonna to Tennyson with live Radio 3 epic", July 2009. No source saying "20 million" is going to erase the The Guardian saying 16. Some kind of comparison must be made between 16 million and 20 million if the 20 million figure is to be in the article. In other words, we would say "Reporter X and reporter Y write that Madonna has sold 20 million copies of the album, but The Guardian writes that the total is 16 million. The various country sales totals are blah, blah, yadda, yadda, adding up to about x million." Something like that. Binksternet (talk) 12:44, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

First of all, who are you buddy ?. why you so defensive to stated the 16 million-from the Guardian.... and who are you? could say that :

VH1 http://www.vh1.com/music/tuner/2012-03-30/madonnas-top-11-controversies-and-how-they-helped-her-succeed-commercially/

BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/150058.stm

Vogue http://www.vogue.com/voguepedia/Madonna

and Irish Independent just copied the 20 million figure from other sources...? are you a RELIABLE person to edit this article?..

The list of World's Best Selling Albums even stated that with almost 13 million in certification, Ray of Light is Reliable to Claim the 20 million copies....

I'm sorry, i just asking.... because it seems so silly that The Guardian sources can beat among the world's top news organization of all time (VH1, BBC, VOGUE, and Irish Independent).39.208.99.175 (talk) 14:13, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

WHO THE H3LL EDITED THIS ARTICLE

I'm really sick and tired with the person who edited and in charge with this article in Wikipedia. Why is so defend the worldwide sales and claim for Ray of Light.... from The Guardian

Why ? who the h3ll are you..? are you Madonna hater or something....

PLEASE WRITE TRUTH & FACT!!!.... if the sales of Ray of Light is really 16 million, can you explain why those sources (BBC, VH1, Vogue, The Independent) claim the 20 million sales...!

I really want to say BIG F!CK for the person who edited this article.... and not answer my question above..!

sorry.... i'm so mad..! thank you... 182.11.106.219 (talk) 09:06, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

The answer is, of course, a lot of people (scroll down to the bottom). --Krenair ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:05, 19 May 2012 (UTC)