User talk:Silver seren

Silverseren

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Well...here's my talk page. If anyone has questions about an edit I did, please put it here. --Silver seren 14:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Modern Schools of Ninjutsu

Hi Silver Seren, Just letting you know I'd like to make a comment about the lead paragraph on Modern Schools of Ninjutsu in reply to the question in your edit comment about it. I don't have any interest in the subject per se and I won't revert anything you have edited but it would be nice to get more discussion going and have a look at the MOS on this point. I'll check here; my talk page and on the article's talk page if you would like to reply. Regards, Myrtle.Myrtlegroggins (talk) 10:15, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Stacey bendet

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WikiProject Article Rescue Squadron Newsletter

Article Rescue Squadron Newsletter Volume I, Issue III February 2012 Front cover | Feature | News and announcements | Humor | Want ads To contribute to the next newsletter, please visit the Newsletter draft page. ARS Members automatically receive this newsletter. To opt out, please remove your name from the recipients list.

Thanks!

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		Thanks for your unexpected and helpful contributions to the Jocelyn Wildenstein AfD, as well as for your support regarding User: Delicious carbuncle. I've pretty much given up on the issue, and will bow down to the will of DC (would rather just get on with other wiki stuff at this point) . . . but I appreciate your words to my defense. Especially considering back and forth arguing (debating?) that we've had in the past. Cheers!

TB

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Factseducado

Being accused of outing predated the IP slip up. If you read the RfC, the order is pretty clear. They used the IP after they requested to disappear, then wouldn't disappear and kept participating. There is a lot more to this case than meets the eye. Since I was accused of something that is legally a crime, I think I've been quite generous in my handling. You are free to disagree, but you probably should get better acquainted with the chronology first. As to providing bureaucrats with information, I have no idea as I don't have access to this. I've been trying to get them to submit the data to Arbcom since day one, since obviously, we need to know who did this, and obviously, I maintain it wasn't me. Others keep talking about sending without the email headers, but this would be pointless, as the headers contain the most useful information if you are trying to determine information. As for chilling, I would disagree, and in particular with the SPI. Again, if you trace this back far enough, you see the reasons why it was filed, which didn't originate with me. I appreciate your concern, but it is my opinion that you don't have all the information here. It is reams and reams of data, granted, but it is more complicated than it looks at first glance, which is why I asked an Arbcom to get involved early in the case. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 22:54, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, obviously, it couldn't have been you, since you're not a bureaucrat, unless you're the admin that the bureaucrat supposedly gave info to? If not, then you wouldn't know what Factseducado's email is, so there's no way you could have sent the supposed email in question. But my advice is just to stay calm, don't make accusations like Hasteur is doing or get rude, it doesn't help. Things will be worked out over time and incivility isn't going to help it get there any quicker. Silverseren^C 23:01, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

I thought I had remained rather calm in the aftermath. I just wanted to let you know there is a great deal of complication to the issue. The problem is that I am being accused, and I think I've been rather nice about the whole affair. I'm not on Hasteur's side, nor do I ever communicate in the same manner that he chooses. That is his choice, of course. But I'm not sure that I have been incivil on the talk pages of either Elen or Facts, or at the SPI. Feel free to point to a statement if I'm wrong. I have been accused of a great deal more of misdeeds, while simply maintaining a resolution that is 100% consistent with policy: The editor should substantiate or withdraw their statements. I said I would accept either. All of this drama is because they want to be unblocked, and still accuse me of something that is both worthy of being desysoped, and is a crime where I live. This is not so trivial of a matter. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 23:07, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Dennis, I've gotten in the bad habit of checking the talk pages of other admins for out of band conversations after I saw this by accident on Drmies' page. I would also think that someone protesting an indef for what appears to be potentially interfering with political aspirations might lead to some drama. Facts already wrote copiously about withdrawing their statement, and only seem to have given up again with mounting pressure from parties with much greater leverage to reveal more personal info in addition to this. The end result is that Facts is still indef block over mere suspicion, and you've been petitioning everywhere for similar sanctions against me for even longer, while your own hopes and dreams are still apparently well and alive. Agent00f (talk) 20:18, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

No, Facts is still blocked because I have no way of telling whether the alleged event even happened, because Facts refuses to engage with anyone who might have the authority to investigate what happened and take appropriate action. Compounded by Facts telling a different tale on Wikipediocracy. This may be due to technical ignorance, general incompetence, mental incapacity, mendacity, abduction by aliens, or any manner of things, but without evidence I cannot tell. Your insistence that it is reluctance to reveal personal info is without substantiation. In any case, I don't need any of the personal information, I need the headers on the email to attempt to work out who sent it. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:40, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

It's uncertain what further investigation would accomplish when the most severe punishment possible for guilt of having suspicions has already been implemented, especially when it seems pretty unlikely that someone with the motivation to send nastygrams with others' personal info would do it through their wiki email. Unless some idiot gets caught, that's irrelevant to personal suspicions anyway. BTW, it was never clarified before the request was only for headers, since it was repeated to "forward any emails to arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org". Agent00f (talk) 00:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

New Pages

Hey Silver seren :). I've noticed you've been commenting in places like this on the work we're doing around new pages. You write that our plan is only marginally effective, but we haven't actually fully deployed any of it yet :). Am I missing something? Regards, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 17:38, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I've just seen NPP people still complaining that the other methods aren't working. At least for what you have deployed, they don't seem very happy about it. Silverseren^C 18:41, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Which people? :S. The feedback we've got for what is still a prototype has been almost universally positive. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 19:55, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I might be behind the times a bit then. The complaints were from about 2-3 weeks ago. If you've implemented new stuff since then, then I wouldn't know about the reception to it. Silverseren^C 20:02, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

We have :). Who is it? I should give them a poke that there are new things to play around with. I have to say I'm a wee bit disappointed they didn't actually say something directly; I'm trying to engage the community. I've got a working prototype deployed on enwiki, we'll be pulling out all the stops advertising it tomorrow, and editors have been involved in development every step of the way. At some point, people have to meet us in the middle; it's useless complaining something doesn't work or isn't good unless you explain what would make it good, and do so to the people with the power to make that happen. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 20:13, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

It was the NPP regulars, those four or five people. If you've gotten positive feedback from them already, then I guess i'm behind the times on this. Silverseren^C 20:15, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

There are quite a few regulars. Are we talking Blade of the Northern Lights, Kudpung, who? Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 21:11, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Pardon my popping in. I was just poking around to see what was up with New Page Patrol and when I saw Oliver had come to talk to you of course had to see why. :D Maybe the important thing is just asking them if they would mind talking about what's working and what isn't and what they'd like to see. :) Can you help with that, SilverSeren? --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 21:22, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

@Okeyes: I am somewhat hesitant to name them now, since I don't want them to be bothered at this point if their opinion has changed. They likely wouldn't be happy about that. But, yes, Blade was one, I remember Maunus too. Not sure if Kudpung was in the discussion. But can we just say that things have apparently changed and not have this discussion anymore?

@Mdennis: How would I be able to help exactly? Silverseren^C 22:31, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, if you know who they are and hang out in places where they're talking about it (IRC?), I would guess you could ask them. :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:18, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, i'd rather not, since I appear to be wrong. Silverseren^C 18:00, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, that's even better, I guess. :D Hopefully, they'll wind up with a workable system that'll make things easier. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 01:19, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

(Eep! Sorry! Wrong account. it's late. I need to go do something else. :/ --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 01:20, 7 June 2012 (UTC))

British-Irish relations / Politics in the British Isles

I've replied to your comment at the re-listed AfD. I'd appreciate it if you could reply. Thanks, --RA (talk) 08:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Commodity pool drafts

Hi Silver, I'm not sure how closely you've been following the discussion at Paid Editor Help regarding my drafts for the Commodity Pool Operator, Commodity trading advisor and Managed futures account articles. However, following a few rounds of review, there seems now to be consensus to move the drafts live. Is this the sort of move you tend to think an admin like Qwyrxian would need to make? I can ask him directly, if so. If not, is it one you might be comfortable making? Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 22:12, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

A histmerge would probably be the best bet for those articles, which an admin needs to do. Silverseren^C 08:53, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

No probs, I've done just that. It would be nice to have another admin involved in the project, though. If Qwyrxian's not available, I may try my luck at the Help desk. WWB Too (talk) 13:55, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Global Automakers

Hey, I didn't yet say thank you for making the last couple updates to the commodity pool articles, so, thank you. Meanwhile, at long last I've posted my proposed new draft for the Association of Global Automakers article, with a detailed but I think not excessive explanation at PAIDHELP. I'm still open to the idea of peer review, though I figured it would help to explain the situation first, and WP:CO-OP is still the best place for that. As I say there, I'm not looking for a speedy resolution, but a durable one. Any feedback you may have would be welcome. Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 17:12, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi there, Silver. Awful quiet on WP:CO-OP lately—nearly two weeks since I posted my explanation regarding the Global Automakers situation, and no reply still. Late last week I reached out to a couple of listed members (Ocaasi and Bobrayner) who said they would review when they had the opportunity, although this hasn't occurred yet. Other ideas I'm considering: peer review, an RfC, and perhaps even reaching out to the editors whom I feel treated myself and the subject unfairly—if nothing else, it may help later, if I have to seek a more formal process. But it's a tough one. Any thoughts? WWB Too (talk) 16:27, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I would say either remind the two of them or you can also reach out to some Wikiprojects. I apologize for not having gotten to it either, i've been kinda busy and my involvement with CO-OP has been sporadic as of late. I'll see if I can get to it later today. Silverseren^C 22:20, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Just replied to Bobrayner, thanks for the heads up. Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 23:53, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Admin

Would you accept a nomination for adminship? My first choice isn't confident about his chances. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 00:24, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure on what my chances would be. It depends on how many of the people that hate me that show up. Why do you want to nominate people, by the way? Silverseren^C 00:25, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I want to accomplish something before ArbCom bans me. I was planning to nominate users in the future due to the sysop nomination "drought", but I'm out of time. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 00:28, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Don't you think a nomination by you while the Arbcom thing is ongoing will actually lead to more people opposing because of it? Silverseren^C 00:35, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Would it be difficult for you to find one or more co-nominators? --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 00:37, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

No, I don't think so. If you're really interested in doing this, then I guess it's okay. I should go see if Moonriddengirl will co-nominate. Just make sure to expect some people to oppose just because you're the nominator. I've seen it happen to other people before in other RfAs. Hopefully, the closing bureaucrat will ignore these, since they wouldn't have any actual relation to the nomination. And...well, thanks! This is rather unexpected, I must say. If you could wait until I have a co-nominator lined up, I would appreciate that. Silverseren^C 00:42, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I can wait. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 00:49, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I left a request here, so you can feel free to keep an eye on it too. Silverseren^C 00:51, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I advise strongly against this. Having been an admin, and having not been an admin, I can tell you that being a non-admin is much better in almost every way. I also expect that your RfA could be quite a rough ride, but then maybe you don't care (which would be admirable). Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:33, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Eh...I was rather nonchalant about the last one. Afterwards, some editors seemed surprised at how well I took it. I guess i'm just not like those that go on a Wikibreak afterwards and get emotional about it. If I don't get it, then I don't get it. No biggie. If I do get it, then I can help out with a number of backlogs and other areas that desperately need some extra admin involvement (like CCI). I mean, if administrator-ship is meant to be no big deal and merely a tool to better help out the encyclopedia, then I should treat it as such, right? Of course, it's still an honor, but it's not something I should be emotionally invested in. Silverseren^C 03:50, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Surely you're aware that "adminship is no big deal" is filed right alongside "the check is in the mail" and "your call is very important to us". Adminship is a very big deal indeed, which is much of the reason why RfA has become so dysfunctional. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 04:13, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

(Well, yeah, but we're not supposed to talk about it. :P) Silverseren^C 04:18, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

You probably already saw it, but the latest Signpost story on adminship was interesting. User:King4057 00:42, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, I did, and it was a very much an interesting read, though not all that surprising. I'm still debating at this point. I'm thinking waiting would be good for now, maybe for a few weeks, at least. Silverseren^C 00:48, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Mentoring

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Hello, Silver seren. You have new messages at Cullen328's talk page.
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Hello, Silver seren. You have new messages at Cullen328's talk page.
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Hello, Silver seren. You have new messages at Cullen328's talk page.
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RE: Sorry

Understood. It's alright. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 13:39, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, what makes you say, "It does appear that you are not going to be blocked"? --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 01:01, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Template:2012 FKF Division One - Zone A results

Hello Silver seren!

I undid your revision on the 2012 FKF Division One - Zone A results template because I never intended for a reflist to be there. All the references are shown in the main article. Davykamanzi → talk  · contribs 15:02, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Legal threats versus criminal proceedings

I noticed your question about NLT and contacting the police at a recent arbitration motion. My understanding of WP:NLT is that it refers to stuff where you would engage in litigation (i.e. civil actions, including things such as defamation or libel), but not to cases where immediate arrests and criminal proceedings might take place, or emergency assistance is required (e.g. suicide threats). Your point about the chilling nature of claiming something is a criminal act is valid, but in such cases (depending on how believable or genuine you judge the claim to be) there is a moral (and sometimes legal) imperative to contact the authorities. Most people are able to distinguish the difference between stuff that would end up in a civil court and stuff that would end up in a criminal court. There is stuff out there about how to deal with claims made on the internet that crimes have taken place or may take place and/or are in progress. But that has little to do with WP:NLT. If you disagree with this, maybe raise it at the talk page: WT:NLT? As someone pointed out at the arbitration discussions, the closest we have to something relating to responding to potential crimes or emergencies is Wikipedia:Threats of violence and Wikipedia:Responding to threats of harm. It is possible that there is a gap in the guidelines and policy, but it is also possible that most people apply common sense here (reporting such incidents to the authorities rather than discussing on Wikipedia). What shouldn't be done is blocking people who say they made such a report, as that may have the effect of discouraging people from making such reports (and hence crimes going unreported). The internet may seem like a different place to the 'real world', but it is in fact part of the world and crimes or claims about crimes made online need to be reported just the same as anywhere (though whether people do in specific cases is another matter entirely, mainly due to believability and credibility of the 'threat' or 'claim'). Carcharoth (talk) 07:25, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

What I would say is that in terms of reporting someone to the police, as I would think would be the same for starting litigation, you don't discuss it on-wiki. Send the user an email, perhaps, but you keep it off the wiki. Therefore, if someone is starting litigation against someone else, but not discussing it or otherwise doing anything on-wiki about it, then I don't think we would or should block under NLT. Half the point of NLT, in my opinion, is the whole chilling effects issue. I feel that the same should hold true for reporting someone to the police. Inform the other user through another venue, but you do not discuss it on-wiki. Especially, IMO, if you're going to accuse someone of pedophilia, which easily, if proven false, can lead to counter-defamation suits. Silverseren^C 07:29, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

That's true, but I do think it is necessary to distinguish between civil and criminal stuff. There is a reason the law (in most countries) distinguishes the two cases, but what is covered by each code can vary from country to country. One of the things to be wary of when travelling abroad (what might get you sued in one country might get you thrown in jail in another)! About contact off-wiki, that can have just as chilling an effect as contact on-wiki. There are cases where editors have been contacted off-wiki and reduced their editing (or retired and started a new account). Was it because of the chilling effect of the off-wiki contact? Anyway, about to log off, so if you want to continue the discussion with others, maybe raise it somewhere else? Carcharoth (talk) 07:36, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

NLT clarification

You brought up an interesting point, which I can link if you need it, but the issue is archived, so I'll simply quote, I suspect you recall "Saying one is going to inform the cops about another user should more or less fall under NLT."

You were told that the answer is no. My sense is that you weren't convinced. I notice that this thread is on point, but I didn't see a clear resolution.

I don't have the energy or the time to start a discussion at NLT, but I wonder is more clarity on the subject is needed. One distinction I think is relevant is that NLT emphasizes civil action while calling the cops is inherently a criminal allegation. However, unless I missed something (and I confess I skimmed) I didn't see that point made (or rejected) squarely.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 16:49, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, guess I should have read the item above before posting :) --SPhilbrick(Talk) 16:51, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Barack Obama on Twitter

You can feel free to add to Barack Obama on Twitter when you find good content.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:04, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

P.S. I think a page move discussion should wait until after the AFD (if it survives).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:15, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Cote d'ivoire

I agree with your comment about the supervote in the close. do you think it's worth opening a move review? I think a no-consensus close would have been a better reading. --KarlB (talk) 02:51, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I very much feel a Move review should be started. This was way too much a supervote to just ignore, especially considering how contentious the discussion was as a whole anyways. Please link me once you start one (and maybe link to the Post closure discussion section in your Move review nomination as well). Silverseren^C 09:31, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

thanks - however given your experience, perhaps you might be better suited to frame the move review? Last time I did a DRV, I think I didn't frame the statement well. Cheers! --KarlB (talk) 12:03, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Stevens Institute of Technology page

Silver,

You have been very helpful in getting editor assistance to assist me with COI edits on the Stevens Institute of Technology page. The editor who has been assisting has been very helpful but has yet been able to complete the final review.

I have posted a notice on the Paid Editor Help board seeking a final review of the page, which you can find here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Cooperation/Paid_Editor_Help#Stevens_Institute_of_Technology_article_updates_according_to_guidelines_for_college_and_university_articles. If there is anything you can do to help get the final review done, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you! QueenCity11 (talk) 12:42, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Miss Peregrine's Home For Peculiar Children

Alright, thanks for your contribution to the page. I guess what I keep writing is too long. Thanks for simplifying it. I guess I write too much. Wheresyourgreen (talk) 21:38, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Wanna organize your user page?

Wanna organize your user page? I can show you how. Tonymax469 (talk) 04:00, 15 July 2012 (UTC)