Talk:Bieber (disambiguation)

Requested Move

{{movenotice}} It should be moved to the title Bieber (disambiguation) because it is a disambiguation page and is not listed as such. Thank you. Cyberdog958 (talk) 07:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Anti-bieber vandalism

Top line was vandalized to read: Bieber commonly refers to Justin Bieber (born 1994 - died 2011), Canadian gay "singer".

Someone vandalized it and after a user undid the edit, another restored the vandalized line. Ok, guys, seriously, do you think THIS is funny? (You probably do) We ALL get the fact that Justin Bieber is a complete d**chebag and can't even make one good song, but can we NOT insult him on any Bieber-related stuff on Wikipedia? Why can't you just do that on sites like Uncyclopedia or Encyclopedia Dramatica? And, NO, I do NOT like Justin Bieber! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.242.135.138 (talk) 00:01, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved, lacking data showing the users looking for Justin are doing so by the name "Bieber" alone. Creating a redirect Bieber (singer) and using it on the dab page (only) to facilitate traffic stat collection later may sway subsequent discussions. -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:25, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

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Bieber → Bieber (disambiguation) – When people search for Bieber, they're looking for Justin Bieber. I believe that "Bieber" should redirect to his page and this page be moved to "Bieber (disambiguation)" GeicoHen (talk) 00:38, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose We generally don't do this for surnames that have lots of meanings to them. Several places are named Bieber and several people are named Bieber. Not justified. Plus, Justin Bieber has a special link on this page. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 01:11, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
• Strong support, there are no really notable competitors, and contrary to Taylor Trescott's argument we do indeed do this for surnames when the bearer of that surname is far, far more notable than all other uses put together (let's say, a handful of minor rivers and a couple of tiny towns). See Reagan, Stalin, Obama, Gretsky, Jágr, etc... most relevantly, see Hendrix, a very parallel situation. Red Slash 03:47, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
  • He's the most notable person with the surname, but seems less likely to be referred to by surname only than the examples you gave. Peter James (talk) 17:25, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
• Question It seems like a claim that might be true but do you have any data to back up the claim?--Labattblueboy (talk) 03:59, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose - Why would anyone search "Bieber" for Justin Bieber? In print books "by Bieber" usually refers to the Austrian anthropologist Friedrich Bieber (1873-1925). In ictu oculi (talk) 08:33, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support per Red Slash. The singer is going to be the far and away WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the foreseeable future. --BDD (talk) 18:01, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per IIO. As popular as he is when is he referred to as just Bieber rather than Justin Bieber? People like Reagan and Stalin are often referred to by their surname, this guy is not. Zarcadia (talk) 19:35, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. Since most people know Justin Bieber's first name, I would seriously dispute that most people searching for his surname only are actually looking for him. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:33, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
• Comment - Try to find one person who doesn't know that Reagan's first name was Ronald. --GeicoHen (talk) 08:08, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
  • The point is that Ronald Reagan is often known simply as "Reagan"; Justin Bieber is not usually known simply as "Bieber"! -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:51, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

RM2

Bieber → Bieber (disambiguation) – Over the past 90 days, 877 people have viewed this disambiguation page. 848 of them then clicked on the link to Justin Bieber's article (the redirect Bieber (singer), which only appears on this disambiguation page). I'm pretty sure 848/877 (96%) satisfies our usage criteria to determine a primary topic, so I propose we move this article to a disambiguation page and redirect Bieber to Justin Bieber. (See also Gretsky, Hendrix, Jágr, etc...) Red Slash 02:46, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

• Comment, while on the face of it this is persuasive evidence, I always suspected the quality of stats is dubious. For example, on Oct 15, there were 57 hits for Bieber (singer), while on the same day there were only 29 hits for Bieber. Obviously, either A) something is very, very wrong with how the stats are collected or with our understanding of what they actually represent or B) not all of the traffic for Bieber (singer) came from the dab page. The same sort of phenomena can be seen quite markedly on Oct 8 and Oct 19 and on several other days to a lesser extent. older ≠ wiser 03:12, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

  PS, for what it's worth, Bieber (singer) now appears third in the drop-down list when searching for "bieber", so it is not at all unlikely that at least some portion of readers are getting to that redirect from places other than the disambiguation page. Not actually sure how much this changes the picture for the proposed move, since the overall figures are still telling, even if some portion must be discounted. older ≠ wiser 03:18, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose - apples and oranges, Gretsky, Hendrix, Jágr, are debatable (personally I'm against all 3 being used in this way, since mononomymic usage is unsupported in reliable sources) but Bieber is not only not used as a mononym in reliable sources, it also has other uses - unlike Gretsky, California, River Hendrix, village Jágr. No one should write or link "Bieber" in an encyclopedia. Particularly when we have Christopher Bieber (born 1989), German footballer, David Bieber (born 1966), American convicted murderer, Frederick Bieber (born 1953), American medical geneticist, Friedrich Bieber (-1924), Austrian anthropologist in Ethiopia, Irving Bieber (1909–1971), American psychoanalyst, Jodi Bieber (born 1966), South African photographer, Margarete Bieber (1879–1978), German American art historian, Martin Bieber (1900–1974), German World War II officer, Matthias Bieber (born 1986), Swiss ice hockey player, Nita Bieber (born 1926), American actress, Owen Bieber (born 1929), American trade union president In ictu oculi (talk) 03:22, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

As for grokstats and page views.... If we follow these en.wikipedia will be a pop music blog with a bit of extra info about sport. Almost all Primary topics and all surnames will be pointing to the primary popstar. That is the meaning of "pop" = popular. Justin Bieber is more popular than rivers called Bieber, we know this. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:39, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

(ec) But consider this, the traffic for all of the "other" persons surnamed Bieber totaled 12,808 for the last 90 days. Justin had 1,420,937 views in the period. All the other entries on the disambiguation page totaled 3132 for the last 90 days. Taken together with the other surnames, that is 15940, which is about 90 times less that the traffic for Bieber. I'm ordinarily skeptical of placing too much emphasis on traffic stats, but this seems to pretty clearly surpass any reasonable threshold. older ≠ wiser 03:44, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support. Let's send the reader to the page he is most likely to be seeking in the simplest, most straightforward way we can. I don't believe in using disambiguation to render judgment on anyone's taste in music. The Viking (talk) 04:25, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
• Speedy procedural close: We just discussed the same suggestion last month. Find something else to do, and try again in a year. There are some good reasons not to do this, e.g. per IIO and Necrothesp above. Maybe the discussion will tilt a different way someday as time moves forward, but we shouldn't be forced to constantly argue about it until opponents give up from sheer exhaustion. —BarrelProof (talk) 08:56, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. I haven't changed my opinion from what I wrote above just over a month ago! -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
  • So you are still disputing, "that most people searching for his surname only are actually looking for him"? You know, this one is not a head scratcher. We have the capability to determine which sites people typing the search term "Bieber" are most likely to click on. Just click here and check the Google rankings. Every result on the first page refers to the singer. The Viking (talk) 17:27, 22 October 2013 (UTC)