Talk:Houston Astros

Colt .45's

Perhaps a section could be added on why the name was changed from the Colt .45's to the Astros?

Workin' on it. Wahkeenah 05:29, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Perspective

IMO, the breathless synopsis of the 2005 season, obviously written only a couple days ago, is awash in needless detail and sorely lacking in perspective. It painfully clear that it was written by a fan -- thank God every article on Wikipedia doesn't look like this. It's very amateurish.

I suggest, in about a year, someone go back and whittle this entry down by about 75%.

If the Cardinals make a comeback, you won't have to wait that long. Wahkeenah 01:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

About Perspective

If the astros do make it to the world series (provided they dont choke), then there does need to be a section for this year in the astros entry. The astros have never won a penant; it is a big deal. (unsigned comment from User:128.194.131.128)

Maybe you should take a look at the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim article. Two very similar franchises, both entered the league about the same time, both had heartbreaking playoff losses, both waited about the same time for their first trip to the World Series, heck they both even have six letter names starting with "A". See the section about the 2002 World Series. Quite a bit more condensed then the current 2005 section of the Astros page. --Holderca1 18:46, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, c'mon, cut them some slack. It will be over in a few days, one way or another, and you can make the article more succinct once the giddiness factor has diminished. d:) Wahkeenah 23:13, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

The trend around here has been appeasement for one year, then the emotional attachment is gone, and the article can be converted to conform with the rest of the teams. I imagine if the Dodgers would have left Brooklyn in 2003 instead of '57, then I bet there would be separate pages for Brk and LA. If you look at teams that won the Series since Wiki started, those teams had an overdose of current events, then it was phased down to a reasonable article after a year or so. Maybe it is a fight not worth fighting until next year. Ah, that is just me talking, not like I have a gun to anyone's head.--CrazyTalk 23:21, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

That style of persuasion would be the Big Bang Theory. Wahkeenah 23:47, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

It's rather silly to have a World Series section under the Astros entry when there's already a 2005 World Series entry. Retropunk 03:33, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, these details could simply be condesned into a description of the teams' '05 playoff run. --Madchester 06:29, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

You might soon be able to make a clean sweep of it. Wahkeenah 13:08, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

You guys played a good World Series. Even though, as a Chicago native, I'm happy with the outcome, you all were honestly one pitch away from winning most of those games. We just got luckier (Some would call it cosmic payback for the 2003 Cubs flameout, especially with that Game 4 Uribe catch. Anyways, you all can hold your heads high, and we'll see you again next year. :) Palm_Dogg 15:07, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I removed a lot of details for the 2005 NLCS / WS. There was just an asinine amount of information. If anyone really thinks it's necessary to have all the junk in there, go ahead and revert. Retropunk 22:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

The ESPN guys talked about how physically and emotionally drained the Astros were, after a season-long comeback effort, an 18-inning game with the Braves and a tough LCS with the Cardinals. The Sox were well-rested. The total margin of victory in this Series, only 6 runs, has to make this one of the most evenly-matched sweeps that has ever occurred. Wahkeenah 15:47, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Game 4 was a microcosm of their entire season. How many games did they lose this year 1-0? Also, I knew the series was over before Game 3 when they made such a big deal about the roof being open. It seemed they were more concerned about about the roof than the White Sox. --Holderca1 16:33, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Yah, and the closed roof and the deafening noise didn't seem to bother Albert Pujols that much. Actually, the Series was effectively over when the Rocket went down in inning 2 of the first game. The 'Stros probably went as far as they could be expected to. Wahkeenah 17:02, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Season by Season records

There is already one in the Kansas City Royals article. Can anyone put one here in the Astros article, this is coming straight from an Astros fan.

I also can't believe after all the good revampming and edits no one has even dared to even put a season by season record list. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.91.114.193 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 31 May 2006 (UTC).

Current results

I removed this section. It probably shouldn't be in an encyclopedia, since it's more like daily updated news. 161.40.22.50 18:26, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Manager of the year

The Sporting News began presenting the first Manager of the Year award in 1936. Originally, the award was given to just one manager a year, but since 1986 a winner has been chosen from each league.

The Associated Press went the other way. From 1959 through 1983, the AP chose a manager of the year for each league, but now gives just a single award.

The Baseball Writers Association of America has named a manager of the year for each league since 1983.

So, pre-1983 this page (and most teams) use The Sporting News award as it was the first. Please don't continue to change it to the AP version. Cjosefy 13:25, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Top 3 in K's?

This got added to the intro of the article today. It's not intro material, but it might be an interesting note somewhere in the article, if it can be vetted:

The Astros are the only team that's had Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson (the top three on the all-time strikeouts list) on their roster at one point or another.

Anybody got time to verify it, or do you think it's not even worth the effort? —C.Fred (talk) 21:01, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Its easy to verify, just go to all three of their's page and it'll prove it-DarkestSideX 04:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup needed

The record-by-year and the succession boxes have cluttered the page - to the point where I can scroll and they are the only visible items on my 1280x800 screen. -- Win777 16:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

The only clutter "offender" I see is the table of contents, which is huge and to the top of the article, but I don't advocate deleting it. —C.Fred (talk) 16:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed some sections and shorten a title that made the TOC way too wide. I would advocate moving the No-hitters section in the Trivia area and condensing it. Retropunk 06:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed the no-hitters section and added the two noteworthy no-hitters (Mike Scott's division clincher and the 6 pitcher no-hitter) to the trivia section.Cjosefy 07:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Garner

Under "2004" it says that Phil Garner had been a member of the 1980 division winning Astros team. He was not. He was, however, a member of the 1986 Astros club. I changed it.

Minor League Affiliations

This article is missing the Minor League Affiliations section. I've added the header, can someone add the content? --CPAScott 01:55, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

POV

Removed a section that was POV against the GM. I'll admit hes bad, but the section it was in was wrong (shouldn't be in 2006 section), and it was too slanted POV. 24.167.68.211 00:43, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

uniforms

has anybody noticed that the uniforms are wrong? what about the red ones? 128.42.155.172 16:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

NLDS, WS, NLCS boxes

There's no reason to have this data in here for the pure purpose for showing predecessors and successors. This can be easily found on the NLDS, WS, and NLCS wikis. They have no encyclopedic value to the Houston Astros wiki other than to show they won the NLDS, WS, and NLCS, which is available in the infobox. Retropunk 00:04, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

You can weigh your opinion at the Baseball WikiProject. Retropunk 07:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

The "Texas Agreement"

I've removed this section, which is a complete hoax and runs afoul of WP:LIVING. There's a discussion at Talk:Texas_Rangers_(baseball)#.22Texas_Agreement.22_removed, where one editor bought the book that was the source for this material and found no mention of any "Texas Agreement." If someone tries to restore this section, it should be removed on sight. | Mr. Darcy talk 16:24, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Rivals

where does it end? There are now five rivals listed. It seems pretty subjective to me, and I'm not clear on how they are determined. If the Astros come in second to the Reds next year, should we add them to the list? I just think there are too many.Loganck 17:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

how are the CUBS RIVALS?!?! someone should fix that. Lindell005 06:51, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Would like to add new category.

I would like to ad "Category:Wikipedian_Houston_Astros_fans" at the bottom, but figure I'd bring it up for discussion first, if no one has any objections, I'll do it at the end of this month. --Hourick 16:03, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Why not creat article called Houston Astros Fans and have a link from this article to that article. Personally I think that would be a better choice. Besides this article is beginning to look like a fan page not an informative article on the Astros. --Mickey 17:03, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:World Series Logo 2005.png

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Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 16:33, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Season summaries do not belong!

Anna to put a season by season summery of every year is not way off. The point of the article is to give a breif history of the franchise and to highlight certain moments in time that made the team who they are. The article is becoming a "fan" page not an informative article about the team. Thus I deleted the season by season descriptions. If there is to be season by season descriptions than a separate page should be created for that information doesn't belong in this article. It makes the article too wordy and long. --Mickey 16:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that is true but the way you were going about this was a bit of a mistake. Please create the pages, add the content, and then removed the content on the main page and link to the pages. When you deleted the 2008 season and said they was a separate page, that was correct, but none of the information that you deleted was actually in the article. Also most baseball teams pages keep the last two or three years. --PatrickFlaherty (talk) 17:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Also consider adding to this page History of the Houston Astros. --PatrickFlaherty (talk) 17:31, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Citations

As you can see, this page has received the This article needs additional citations for verification. template. If everyone who is involved with page could look up this information and place it has a citation that would be great. We may know the history of our Astros but we cannot be used as a citation. Let's all bring this page to it's full potential. HouAstros1989 (talk) 15:58, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Quick Facts Rivals Not the Braves

The Atlanta Braves are NOT an Astros rival and never have been. While the Astros and Braves have had some great playoff series they have no history other than playing each other in the playoffs. If the Braves are a rival than the Dodgers, Phillies, and Padres are rivels. The reason that St Louis is a rival is because the Astros have a long history with St Louis. Houston use to be where St Louis' minor league team, The Buffaloes, was located. The Rangers are a rival based on being in the same state and the games are for bragging rights. The Astros and Braves play each other 6 times a year 3 games in each teams park. They are NOT in the same divison so the games are not for a divison battle. -Mickeyp2814

Former Players hall of fame

Currentley the Astros have no player that has gone into the Hall Of Fame as an Astro. The players listed as Hall of Fame should be removed because they are not Astors hall of Fame players. Also the announcers need to be moved or removed as they are not players. Maybe there should be a Hall of Fame section?--Mickey 14:24, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

additional Players of note to lengthy

This section needs a complete overhaul! It seems as if there are player on there that were just fan favorites at the time. Bill doran is an example...while Doran was a great Astro what did he do to make himself stand out? Billy Hatcher on the other hand stands out because of that home run in the '86 playoffs v The Mets. Heck there is a whole chapter on Billy Hatcher in the book "One Pitch Away". So that is just an example. I am going to start an edit on this section in a few days unless I get some input back. --Mickey 17:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Looking at other team Wiki pages I think the Additional Players of Note section should be removed. While there are some good player listed there are also what appear to be peoples personal fav's. Thoughts? --Mickey —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.110.205.6 (talk) 15:29, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

additional Players of note and home gorwn heroes removed

As mentioned above the Additional Player of note was removed because it was becoming more of a MY FAV PLAYER section. Also there wasn't a reason as to why the players were in such a list. Tuffy Rhodes? Why? Because he has a cute nickname? Also the Home Grown Heros was removed. Houston is not unique in that we have player that have/do play on the Astros that are from the area. Cleveland, New York, LA, just to name a few all have or have had player from the area play on their teams. I am sure most teams have players either from the area or state that have played on their team. --Mickey 17:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Major clean up and organize

Okay I stared put the page together in decades versus a few years here and there. This give a better look and feel to the page. I did however leave the 1986 season as a stand out as that was such a great team and year! No not ever playoff year should be highlighted. We should highlight the World Series appearance. The 2000's look really bad! There is no need for a year by year break down. Could someone start an edit combining the 2000's, but Highlight the world series appearance? --208.110.205.6 (talk) 17:22, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Another idea

I think we could/should move Coke-Cola park patrol, the rabbit mascot, and the train (and if you can think of something else) to a section based on Team supported traditions. Where as the Killer B's, and the Baby Puma's etc., are FAN traditions. Thoughts? --Mickey 18:41, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree to remove the Coke-Cola park patrol, as it is irrelevant to the Astros and not exactly unique to baseball games. I think the mascot and the train should stay, however. I don't know how the team doesn't support the mascot, as it was their own brainchild. The train is a unique part of Minute Maid Park and the area surrounding it and is embraced by the organization as well as the fans.--Almosthonest06 (talk) 19:13, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Cool! Glad to hear some feed back! --Mickey 13:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

The Houston Astros Coca Cola Park Patrol is actually the very first interactive sports promotions team because it is derived out of the former sports entertainment giant, Sports Magic. Now it is owned by Dukeman Productions and they also handle account for the Texas Rangers and the Houston Texans as well.

The more I think about it

Forgive me but as I look at the other pages I am now wondering if we should put the time lines in some sort of era based on when things happened or when player played in Houston. for example the "Biggio, Bagwell Era". My only concern with this is having everyone remember something from thier time. I mean do we need a "clemens petit" era? I am researching 1969 to 1975 right now in that was when the Astros made that blockbuster trade to the Reds that included Joe Morgan. I have finished my research on the building years of 1980 - 1985 in which the Astros basicly built the 1986 team. Anyway for now I will not touch anything. Just looking for input. --Mickey 17:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

rewrite on "beginnings"

I started research on the history of the Astros that lead me to several sources of great information. Some of which is UofH and the Chronicle. The old intro lead the reader to believe that expansion to Houston was a result of the Giants and Dodgers leaving for New York for the West Coast. Not true. Houston prior to 1962 had been trying to get MLB in the city for some time. The result of getting MLB in Houston was the formation of the Houston Sports Association and MLB NOT wanting the Continental League to place teams in potentially future markets. Also, there are For men cheifly responsible for bringing baseball to Houston, thus the inforamtion before was wrong. As Wikipedia stated before "citation needed" I found several websites with the exact infromation but with nothing siting a source. Marco A Perez and Bud Adams were thus removed. The previous article also made it sound as if Kirksey, Hofheinz and Smith were small players when in fact they, along with Cullinan, were the major players in bring MLB to Houston. I listed my source, unlike the previous "begginnings" section. Hope you like it. --Mickey 15:14, 26 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mickeyp2814 (talk • contribs)

Is "quick Facts" really necessary?

Most of the info in "Qick Facts" is covered in the opening description and in the box with the logos, uni's, colors, etc. I think it is not needed. We could add the television and radion stations to the very beging, including announcers. Do we need the motto? I think we do not. That should be found in the Astros 2008 season article. As far as "famous fans" who cares? Rivals are covered in the article, but again this could be added to the very beginning. Thoughts? --Mickey 13:11, 3 October 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mickeyp2814 (talk • contribs)

1971 - 1974 and the Big Trade

I have finished '71 - '74 and also added the big trade. The Big Red Machine article in Wikipedia really doesn't do it justice and I added information regarding the trade as what it became...which was a part of the Big Red Machine. I feel it is important to the Astros History to include this information. Also I am starting on the 1975 - 1979 seasons, which I have already done a lot of research on and hope to post it 10/20/2008 or 10/21/2008. Any information would be great! Mickeyp —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mickeyp2814 (talk • contribs) 15:50, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of "Rainbow Guts" page

Just to alert those interested in the Astros that there has been a proposed deletion of the page on the Astros' famous Rainbow Guts uniforms of the 1970s. It is of course ridiculous to assert that the uniforms never existed, but I encourage those interested in Astros history to assist in improving the page and adding citations where necessary. Acsenray (talk) 02:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

No one is saying the uniform never existed. There are no links in the article. Also, the uniform, while may be known as “Rainbow Guts” to some in the Houston area, nationally it is known as the “Rainbow” uniform. Maybe a rename of the article to “The Rainbow uniform” with the description and comment on “it is also known as Rainbow Guts.” That is how I see it. However, it needs references. Mickeyp —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mickeyp2814 (talk • contribs) 13:21, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Rainbow Guts

I have been researching the "Rainbow Guts" uniform and all I find is blogs, opinion polls and fans that call it "Rainbow Guts". I have lived in Houston all my life, went to games in the "Rainbow era" and have only heard locals (few at that) refer to the Rainbow uni as "Rainbow guts". Even the Astros web site refers to the jersey as "The Rainbow Jersey". What I am getting at is we want the Astros article to be as factual as we can make it. I Purpose the "Rainbow Guts" article be rewritten as "The Rainbow Jersey" or "Astros Rainbow Jersey" and refer it it as "sometimes called Rainbow Guts" and we link to that article from the Astros article. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mickeyp2814 (talk • contribs) 13:41, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I think someone needs to summarize and reduce it in about half size. Stevefis (talk) 01:35, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Hall of Fame

Deleted the Hall of Fameers that were listed as they did not go in to the HOF as Astros. Looking at some other Articles I found they did not have players or announcers that played for their team but not in the HOF with that team listed. Also deleted announcer Harr Kalas because he is know as the voice of the phillies since 1971. When Biggio and Bagwell gat in the GOF we will some player to list! Mickeyp —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mickeyp2814 (talk • contribs) 15:44, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

changes made MArch 30 2009

There has been a lot of stuff added to the article that doesn't belong. For example stating that there is a sports show on Fox! Who cares? just the facts! keep it simple. Also all changes need to be signed. If you do not have an account you can still add you name or handle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mickeyp2814 (talk • contribs) 14:43, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Just-plain Colts?

My memory may be deceiving me (it’s 47 years ago, after all), but I could have sworn that they played their first season in the National League (1962) as just the Houston Colts. The “.45s” was added later to clarify that they were talking abut the pistols and not young horses. As I say, my memory may be faulty, but I distinctly remember their starting out as the just-plain Houston Colts. Can anybody definitively confirm or refute this? —Dodiad (talk) 03:39, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Away Uniforms

The all gray uniforms haven't been the Astros regular Away uniform for at least 3 years. I think this needs to be changed in the infobox.SChaos1701 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC).

merge the history of the Houston Astros and History portion of this article

I would say since the history part takes up such a long portion, it would work best as a seperate page.--Levineps (talk) 05:38, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Photos for individual seasons

While looking at various seasons I noticed there isn't much of a photo history. While I don't want the page to turned into one big gallery, a few photos of highlights of the game and changes of the stadium would be nice. --Hourick (talk) 04:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Nationality of Players

Main page: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball § Nationality of Players

Given the fact that baseball is becoming an increasingly more international sport (i.e., more non-U.S. leagues in existence, more non-U.S. players in the MLB), the roster formatting on Wikipedia should probably be updated to reflect that. If you look at the formatting for other international sports (such as soccer), the player nationalities are indicated using flag icons. I think this would be a beneficial update to each of the major league rosters in the MLB, it would not be too difficult to implement and it would not clutter the information on the page. However, before such change a change is implemented, I thought it would be healthy to achieve at least some form of consensus on the talk page for each team. yuristache (talk) 01:10, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

2001 NL Central Division champs

There is a a discussion regarding the Astros and the Cardinals that finished with the same record, and the Astros were seeded in the playoffs as division winner while the Cardinals were seeded as the wildcard. Should both be called co-champions of the division?

Feel free to join at Talk:St. Louis Cardinals#Co-Championship.—Bagumba (talk) 02:56, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

AL section is too soon.

The section Move to the American League should be deleted, the event is scheduled for the 2013 season. GoodDay (talk) 06:27, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Major Work

I use to work on the Astros page and have done most of the content up to 1980 and some in 1986. I have returned to find it in pretty bad shape. Not that it was in the best shape when I did my edits. Here is a list of things, IMO, we should focus on.

Keep it short if possible.  Summerize seasons do not tell a story.  This will have to be done going back to the begining.
Mascots and triditions are not necessary.  This is debatable.  My opinion is unless the mascot or tridition has been long and part of Astros history we do not add it.
clean up citions and add citions.  Very impotant.

These are just my thoughts. I see a lot of story telling and POV when it should be summary and factual. Check each others work and if changes are made state the change. Thoughts? Mickey 16:46, 23 December 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mickeyp2814 (talk • contribs)

move to AL

Move to Al Why do the Astros have to move It definitely screws the idea of an I 45 World Series selling the the team and have new owner is one thing changing WTFMrp8196 (talk) 09:41, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Franchise History subsection headings

While I think the history itself is very well-written, I think the subsection headings are too sensationalistic and not encyclopedic in tone. They would be great for a book on baseball or the astros, but not so much for an encyclopedia. Any thoughts? 76.231.150.69 (talk) 14:52, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

New Uniforms

Are pics of the new uniforms going to be put up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.31.155.94 (talk) 19:04, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Here's my attempt at the new uniforms. http://kaiserthegreat.com/zzz/ALW-Uniform-HOU.png If we like it, can someone help me traverse through the horror that is Wiki's upload form? I can't figure out which options to select. - Kaiserthegreat (talk) 19:21, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Pretty nice, but you forgot the Sunday/BP uniforms. I know that they usually don't put BP unis on Wikipedia, but the Stros are going to have those double as the Sunday jersey with the orange being the Friday jersey.

I wasn't sure if that was official yet. I've only seen it called a "Sunday jersey" on a video game, and BP jersey everywhere else. But if it does end up being official, I made that one, too. http://kaiserthegreat.com/zzz/ALW-Uniform-HOU.png Kaiserthegreat (talk) 18:16, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

They announced it as the Sunday uniform at the unveiling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.31.155.94 (talk) 12:54, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

They wore the blue jersey on Sunday. Can we change the image now? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.31.155.94 (talk) 20:52, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Also, what about the Saturday home uniform where they wear the orange cap? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.31.155.94 (talk) 05:16, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Identify Player, First Name Robert

Hi, I would like to asked abt Robert not know last name if is Astros from Houston Texas retired 1962 or 1964 and he is 64 yrs old live in Los Angeles How I contact to him Robert chat to me almost everyday online show me Pictures of his Fan baseball of him to be just be friend from Zoosk can t open to chat so I wonder from his email address for to keep company. P.S. send me my answer my Name is Ruth Priester Thank you if let me know would u God Blessed....... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.73.213.210 (talk) 04:29, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

The Astros have transcended again.

Reading the MLB standings, I have seen that the Astros have ALREADY surpassed their worst record with 109, possibly 110 or even 111, losses by season's end, just barely worse than their last season's at 107 losses. Should we record this on the Wikipedia article now? --BillxMach (talk) 18:47, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Retired numbers

The graphics for the retired numbers look horrible. The creator stats they made the images in MSPaint. That should be explanation enough.