Talk:Baltimore

Template:V0.5

New Picture

Can someone please put a new picture up as the main picture. The one that is there currently is not very good. Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and New York have an organized montage of pictures for their profile picture. Maybe someone could do something like that? oldlinestate 06:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldlinestate (talk • contribs)

I put a new picture up for the time being - one that is a little bit more vibrant. I'll see if I can come up with a cool collage photo to go up there, although I don't know if I have enough good original material. oldlinestate 06:49, 8 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldlinestate (talk • contribs)

The collage picture that is currently posted is definitely a huge improvement over the single skyline picture that had been up there for ages. However, the collage could use a little work. First off, the current skyline picture in the collage is not very attractive and could be replaced by a picture showing the classic skyline view of Baltimore as viewed from Federal Hill. Also, while the Penn Station picture in the collage is good, a picture of Fort McHenry would be much more suitable. I would undertake these tasks myself, however I have no experience creating collages on wikipedia unsigned comment added by jampilot

Lake Trout?

Surely there should be a section about Baltimore's greatest culinary achievement: lake trout. I think this article has been whitewashed, removing all references to lake trout. Lake trout is an important part of Baltimore history and a staple of Baltimore cuisine and commerce. My suspicion is that the Crab Fisherman's Consortium (CFuC) has intentionally altered this article to remove any reference to its only major competitor in the Maryland seafood industry. Can we have a poll on whether lake trout should be in the article's intro? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.27.36 (talk) 16:20, 11 December 2009 (UTC) I was born in Baltimore and lived there most of my life..I`ve never heard anything about lake trout there..my guess is you own a restaurant and are trying to promote it Lonepilgrim007 (talk) 00:18, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

76.104.27.36 may be making a joke or even promoting a restaurant in a weirdly roundabout way, but Lonepilgrim007 is flat out lying about Lake Trout. There is more lake trout then crabs in bal'mer. There is more lake trout than aggravated assault. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.138.223.87 (talk) 20:12, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Mayor Dixon

Surely it would be possible to find a better photo of Mayor Sheila Dixon. It looks very little like the Ms Dixon I know162.66.50.4 (talk) 15:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)PeterB

What picture are you talking about? There aren't any on this page! If you're referring to the three pics on the Sheila Dixon page, well, you may be right. The problem is that Wikipedia can only use images that are (a) in the public domain or (b) released under some other license that allows for free reuse (like the GPL or the Creative Commons license). This means that you cannot do what most people's first instinct is, which is to just find a good picture on the Internet and use that -- someone has the rights to that image and may not want you to do it!

Many of the pictures on Wikipedia are taken by editors and contributed to the project under appropriate licenses. Two of the pics on the Sheila Dixon page fall into this category. (The third was taken by a US Federal Govt. employee on the job and is thus in the public domain.) If you know Mayor Dixon, why not take her picture and then contribute it? --Jfruh (talk) 16:34, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

The name/history

Is it worthwhile to also note that the name also means "Baltic Sea" in Russian? I am thus casting doubts whether the original name history (Baltimore, County Cork) is correct. Alepik (talk) 01:34, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Baltimore is named after the British family that held the title Baron Baltimore; these were the first proprietors of the Maryland colony. Their title in turn dervied from the city in Ireland. This is all very well documented; I'm not sure why you would doubt it. --Jfruh (talk) 16:16, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

OK but a web search doesn't make it clear whether the first Baron Baltimore took his title from some informal placename in County Longford (where he was evidently granted land) or from the seaside village in County Cork (where he evidently had no land). Jack Waugh (talk) 14:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I thought it was Lord Baltimore--Lonepilgrim007 (talk) 00:21, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

'lord' is a generic term for all the british peerage, barons to dukes inclusive. thus, he might have been addressed as baron, or 'my lord'.Toyokuni3 (talk) 16:05, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

I question the use of the term 'Baltimore City.' I lived in Baltimore briefly and I have never heard the city referred to as 'Baltimore City.'Deedeebee (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 22:48, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

As the article states, it is only used sometimes, when a clear distinction from the county is desired. —Adavidb 13:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I live in Baltimore and have for five years and I hear the term used all the time. You'd use to distinguish between the city and the county, but in that context it's quite common. --Jfruh (talk) 14:07, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Google Earth Model

I have tried to add a Google Earth model of Baltimore City Hall but the "Wiki Police" keep reporting it as spam. Can someone instruct me on how to add this model without it being reported as spam? Should I create a new page specifically about Baltimore City Hall? Can I host the model on Wkipedia somehow so there is not a link back to my website to avoid the spam violation? It is also hosted on the 3D warehouse...should I link it from there? I cant imagine that 3D models are not wanted on Wikipedia.

Baltimore City Hall at Google 3D Warehouse —Preceding unsigned comment added by 3Doogle (talk • contribs) 22:23, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

site's been taken down. if this weren't a talk page i would have just removed this as a dead link.Toyokuni3 (talk) 03:36, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

see your talk ccwaters (talk) 15:44, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Architecture

Would be nice to update the further information link so it goes to Baltimore Architecture, rather than Baltimore Neighborhoods - - is there such a page?... (for architecture) --Teda13 (talk) 02:55, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

mention definitely needs to be made of the german influence in the residential architecture of b'more, AND mention should be made in the body of the article (not just the 'see also') of the famous(infamous?) formstone of east b'more, hamden, etc.Toyokuni3 (talk) 15:37, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Etymology of name

there is debate on the Baltimore, County Cork page as to whether it is correctly 'baile an' or 'baile na'. an is the definite article, while na is the preposition 'of'. na would seem to me more liokely correct. however, the reference cited is to place names in northern ireland , where cork very definitely is not.Toyokuni3 (talk) 15:15, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

the irish derivation of the name IS pertinent, and its deletion will be reverted every time.Toyokuni3 (talk) 23:28, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Baltimore overhaul

Hi all. I just wanted to let you guys know that I plan on starting a rather significant overhaul of the article to try and get it up to WP:GA standards. I will be taking the following actions:

1. Removing dubious uncited information and trying to find references for other facts. Anywhere a source is needed I will either add a {{fact}} tag. If you happen to find a WP:RELIABLE source for that information, please provide it! To this end, please do not be offended if I remove information from the page that you believe should be included: nothing is gone forever and can always be re-added later with a proper source.
2. Cleaning up lead to match WP:LEAD
3. Moving long sections (e.g. History) into their own dedicated sub-articles and then revising down the information left on the main page per WP:SUMMARY
4. Transform lists into prose form, and creating sub-lists for other information that is unneeded on the main page (radio and TV stations, former sports team, etc.)
5. Editing sections to match the recommendations of WP:USCITY
6. Revising prose for clarity and to match WP:MoS

Please feel free to help make changes, or provide your comments here. If you do plan on helping with the overall. I ask that you please use the Sandbox, and make edits to particular sections only in order to reduce the chances of encountering edit conflicts. Thank you for your help. Best, epicAdam (talk) 21:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Nicknames

Can we decide on which nicknames are actually going to remain in the infobox? Of the ones listed, I think "Charm City" is really the only one that is still in use; "Mob Town", "The City of Firsts", "Monument Town" are all rather archaic. "B-more" and "B-town" aren't really nicknames as much as they are abbreviations. As for the mottos, there is typically only one official motto designated by the local legislature. "The Greatest City in America" and "Get On It" aren't mottos as much as they are advertising slogans for tourists. There has to be a decision as to which names are actually listed in this article.

"The City that Reads" was on all the park benches for a while but I don't think it took.

"Mobtown" (usually written closed up) is a still a fairly well known nickname, usually used in a derogatory or ironic sense these days, but probably recognized by most Baltimoreans. Yes, I'm a local and am basing this on my own personal experience (i.e. it's Original Research, not a Reliable Source), but I would just urge you not to toss that one out of hand like the others you list, which I think are genuinely moribund. To provide a few examples of contemporary use, a pretty well known local blog, the Mobtown Shank, uses the name, as does the Baltimore City Paper's Mobtown Beat column. --Jfruh (talk) 03:15, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I haven't been there in a year or two but I can't imagine that "mobtown" is no longer in use.69.138.223.87 (talk) 20:18, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

I have also heard Baltimore referred to as Dixie's Tollbooth, as it was the first city below the Mason-Dixon line, and up until about the 1940s, people from the Northeast had to go through Baltimore to get to the South.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.153.115.173 (talk) 00:24, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

The popularity of the TV show "The Wire" has given Baltimore a new nickanme: "The Hole". This is a reference to the show's theme song "Way Down in The Hole", originally performed by Tom Waits. 66.83.115.178 (talk) 14:46, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

History

You removed a cite and then placed a on a sentence that is convoluted (has several ideas) but that seems neither controversial nor relevant to this article (and if true is surely resolved on the pages of the people linked). What specific item there needs sourcing? DMacks (talk) 00:04, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that. My internet connection went out between making that change and posting a correction, which should be up now. I do like to find references for all "hard facts" (e.g. dates, numbers, statistics) even if they may be uncontroversial, since it greatly aids readers who use Wikipedia as a research tool. I took out those particular fact tags as I am lining up sources. I'll be continuing to work on the article section by section in my personal sandbox so any changes I make will typically come in batches from now on as I find proper sources and work them into the text. Best, epicAdam (talk) 01:27, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

A squared C squared

i really don't think anne arundel community college belongs in the list. anne arundel county (other than perhaps glen burnie, brooklyn and linthicum) feels every bit as much allegiance (rightly or wrongly) with metro dc. moreover, you don't list aa county as a contiguous suburb. further, if you're going to include aacc, then why not the naval academy and mcdaniel(in carroll county, which borders on baltimore county). maybe even hood. just not part of baltimore. comments?Toyokuni3 (talk) 20:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I am in agreement that AACC doesn't belong with this article. —ADavidB 06:29, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

While I agree that AACC should not be on the page - don't underestimate Anne Arundel County's allegiance to the city. You would be surprised at how connected the population along Route 2 (north of annapolis) is to Baltimore city - it's the cultural center for all of central Maryland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.67.22.116 (talk) 20:17, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

There is currently a proposal on the table to amend the Wikipedia naming conventions for US cities to follow the AP Stylebook's suggested names. This would effectively move a number of US city articles currently on the list, so Baltimore, Maryland would be moved to Baltimore. To comment on this discussion, please go here. Dr. Cash (talk) 16:47, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Infobox update

Summary of changes:

• added flag
• added pushpin map to better illustrate Baltimore's geographic position in a wider context.
• added city council members, city delegation, and congressmen - something I saw at the Sanfrancisco page.
• added demonym.
• added named for.
• corrected incorporation year.
• corrected area per U.S. Census Density Using Land Area.
• corrected coord data: removed seconds because the were overly precise, removed geodata template redundant with coord in Infobox, and switch from city to city(pop).
• corrected population data: Metro=CBSA and Urban=MSA. Compare say San Jose and Oakland which are in the same CBSA but separate MSAs. Updated MSA and CBSA to 2007.

GcSwRhIc (talk) 18:44, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Unreferenced material

I have downgraded Baltimore's WikiProject Cities Assessment because the article contains a lot of irrelevant material and requires substantial cleanup, especially in finding citations. I will try to find references for the uncited material in this article wherever possible. However, per Wikipedia:Verifiability, I will go through and purge the article of "pseudo information" for any material I cannot verify. Additional editors' help in finding appropriate references would be much appreciated. Best, epicAdam^(talk) 18:10, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Island South of I-695 Bridge

Can someone tell me what the island in the mouth of Baltimore harbor is, just south of the I-695 bridge is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.2.92.82 (talk) 04:06, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

The "island" you're referring to is Fort Carroll. (You can find information like that by using Google Earth and checking Wikipedia under Geographic Web in the layers section of the sidebar.) DAK4Blizzard (talk) 07:39, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Climate

Ok. I have watched the small edit war over the climate data, specifically over which source to use. I personally believe that the Weather Channel (and NOAA)'s source for downtown is ridiculous. Just think about it. This is a Mid-Atlantic city located on the Chesapeake Bay, and has an average July high/low of 91/73? That seems ridiculous compared to Washington's more realistic average of 88/70 in July; this is a difference of THREE DEGREES in BOTH the High and Low. Not so sure about the data for the winter temps, which does seem credible right now. Mathpianist93 (talk) 23:34, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

You might want to check out the archived talk page on the subject, as this is an edit war with a long and stupid history (even earning a spot on the lamest edit wars page!). To be succinct, the pros and cons of using the downtown weather station are:

• CON: Downtown weather station is in Baltimore's urban heat island, artificially boosting the numbers
• PRO: All other available weather data comes from stations that are not in Baltimore proper; Baltimore has specific boundaries, and this is an article about Baltimore, not the Greater Baltimore Area or something like that.

But I've only been a horrified/amused viewer of this edit war, not a participant, so perhaps others have something to add. I will say that I live in Baltimore City and it does get pretty hot in the summer. --Jfruh (talk) 23:56, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Ah. Wow. this edit war has been somewhat pointless. Mathpianist93 (talk) 00:46, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Demographics

Why are white americans spoken about first in the part about the population? It looks odd whites 34% blacks 64%, natives 0.1% etc...is there a logical reason for this? vap (talk) 20:53, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Baltimore/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Dana boomer (talk) 03:51, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi! I'll be reviewing this article for GA status.

First, all of the cleanup banners and tags need to be fixed. There are two major cleanup banners, multiple dead links and over half a dozen fact tags from as long ago as August 2008. Major cleanup banners are a quick-fail criteria, but I am willing to give the article a couple of days to see if things are resolved. There are also multiple other areas that need references that aren't marked with citation needed tags, more dead links not marked by dead link tags (see here), and a lot of really short paragraphs that should be combined with others or expanded to make the article more readable.

I will leave this review open for a few days to see if work is being completed on the above issues. If it is, I will then take another pass through the article to complete a full review. Please let me know if you have any questions. Dana boomer (talk) 03:51, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments (this is not a full review, just some quick observations):

• As a courtesy I went and fixed the bare links. All the references, except a few dead ones, should be reasonably formatted now.
• The article is quite long. IMHO, the length is not justified. Some suggestions of things to cut down on:
  • History: maybe a tad long. Regardless there are some extraneous details (e.g. National Register of Historic Places)
  • Tallest buildings: Link to the list article if you like but these are details that are not important in this article.
  • Neighorhoods: Some good content but definitely does not need to be this long.
  • Culture: Again interesting but a bit too much detail. E.g. the discussion on Baltimorese is too detailed for this article.
  • Government and law enforcement: Merge these sections and tighten up a little. Don't need to mention every agency and don't need to mention current office holders.
  • Education: Get rid of the lists. Discuss the main universities and community colleges. Primary and secondary education should be discussed in broad strokes without getting into every school (unless there are particular schools that are exceptionally notable).

Hope that helps.

--Mcorazao (talk) 23:13, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

As very little work has been done on this article (other than the reference formatting, with thanks for that going to Mcorazao) during the period of the review, I am failing this article's GA nomination. I look forward to seeing it back at GAN once the above issues have been addressed. Dana boomer (talk) 19:33, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Baltimore delegation to General Assembly

The article currently includes the following:

Prior to 1969, some considered Baltimore and its suburbs to be particularly underrepresented in the Maryland General Assembly, while rural areas were heavily overrepresented. Since Baker v. Carr in 1962, Baltimore and its suburbs account for a substantial majority of seats in the state legislature; this has caused some to argue that rural areas are now underrepresented. Baltimore's steady loss of population, however, has resulted in a loss of seats in the Maryland General Assembly. Since 1980, Baltimore has lost four senators from the 47-member Maryland State Senate and twelve delegates from the 141-member Maryland House of Delegates.

Besides the references to the mysterious "some," the paragraph presupposes that everyone in Maryland lives in either the rural areas or Baltimore and its suburbs. We are aware, aren't we, that the county that is now the state's most populous political subdivision is neither? 75.196.85.28 (talk) 20:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Picture of Mayor Rawlings-Blake

Can't we get a better picture of the mayor? Say, one that does not involve a missing button on her blouse revealing her BRA? Do not delete this. The picture up at present is disrespectful and someone has to have a better one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.59.249.85 (talk) 05:29, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

We've been waiting for two years at least since someone first mentioned this, and nobody has volunteered to give us one. Sad. DMacks (talk) 06:02, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Heroin capital of the USA ?

Look at this You Tube-clip first: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haSywRjAyBg&feature=related

Note: 60.000 junkies out of 600.000 citizens (i.e. 10%) is clearly wrong. No city on earth could have coped with that. But what they mean is probably 60.000 out of 2.7 mill. in the larger Baltimore-area. That over 2% and is still an extremely high number.

While it's always important to focus on the positive things first and foremost, one must never shy away from the truth. And the truth is that Baltimore is having a serious heroin problem. You shouldn't waste an awful lot of space writing about it. But one or two sentences in such a long article, would strangely as it sounds improve it. Help the reader to understand for example why the crime rate is constant high due to a large user population, no matter what the police do. Please don't use dramatic words like "heroin capital of the usa" either, as these things goes up and down other cities could pass Baltimore. I know that this is double standards, but the articles must always of the highest standards. While this is just a discussion page with exchangement of opinions.

Stein S., Oslo

PS. Was a little surprised that heroin wasn't mentioned in connection with The Wire either. The whole TV-series centers around this drug, and NOT crime in general. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.209.100.54 (talk) 00:36, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Baltimore/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: epicAdam^(talk) 18:50, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

This article does not yet qualify for Good Article ranking. It is well-written and reasonably complete, but there are large sections of the article that are not adequately sourced. While some information may not be particularly controversial, information citing specific facts, especially dates and numbers, should be cited. A glaring example is the Architecture subsection, which is almost completely without citations . In addition, editorial positions are presented without source, for example: "Oriole Park at Camden Yards is considered by many to be the most beautiful baseball park in Major League Baseball". Likewise, the economy section doesn't provide any data on employment figures. It should be fairly easy to find the number of people employed by industry, the city's GDP, unemployment rate, etc.

I would recommend that the government section be consolidated and made into prose. There is a lot more to be said about Baltimore politics, law enforcement and other city agencies can be included here as well as opposed to their own small headings. Likewise, since education and healthcare are now apparently Balitmore's largest industries, more should be said here. GA articles should also try to minimize lists. The sports section can also be condensed and have added citations.

The lead also need a good deal of work to ensure it adequately summarizes the article. As it currently exists, a casual reader would find out from the lead that Baltimore is a medium-sized city in Maryland that used to be an important port and industrial town but now has a shopping mall near the harbor. Certainly, there is more to Baltimore than that. The largest section in this article are the city's neighborhoods and architecture, which aren't even mentioned, nor is much of the city's extensive history, especially its importance in both the Ward of 1812 and the Civil War.

Other issues:

• There are a few references that need to be checked, at least one is dead and some of the archived links are invalid, see: Checklinks
• A few pages need to be disambiguated to point to the intended article, see: Dablinks

While this fails good article nomination right now, I recognize that User:Folklore1 has made significant improvements to the article over the last month. I encourage editors to take these comments to help improve the article further. Best, epicAdam^(talk) 18:50, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

In support of Folklore1, the depth of content in this article is amazing. EpicAdam should have let this pass GA, because it really is at that level. I'd recommend doing some of the bot-like consistency and validation checks that adam is asking for, because most GA reviewers are far more benevolent. JamaUtil (talk) 02:10, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

there are a lot of drugs in Baltimore..i was a taxi driver there for 5 years..if it possible to have 10 % of the city strung out they have it..i read an article in the city paper once said it was more like 30Lonepilgrim007 (talk) 05:15, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Proposal to change night panroama image

I propose to change the night panorama image from File:Bmore-Skyline1.jpg to File:Baltimore Inner Harbor Skyline Night Panorama.jpg --Jovian Eye _talk 12:15, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm opposed to it. The new photo's center of focus is on Rash Field which distracts the viewer as well as putting the actual skyline out of focus. The existing photo is strictly skyline and has a greater effect. IMHO. GcSwRhIc (talk) 12:28, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Independent City

I propose to remove the information about Baltimore being the "largest independent city in the United States." First off, the claim is not cited to a reliable source. Second, it's a distinction that's both meaningless and misleading, especially to those who are unfamiliar with the structure of local governments. Being the largest of a handful of cities doesn't really convey any information to the user; it's like saying that Pennsylvania is the largest commonwealth in the United States, it may be true but inconsequential. Best, epicAdam^(talk) 06:15, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Local dialect

How else are you supposed to say "to" and "do" other than "tew" and "dew"? I am from Baltimore and i don't understand why they put that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.114.136.73 (talk) 00:33, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

I've removed this to/do sentence from the article. Its claim was not supported by the accompanying cited source or the Baltimore dialect article. A guess is that the "eh" sound that prefixes an "oh" sound in the dialect was also thought to precede "oo" sounds. —ADavidB 04:22, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Structure

Hi. I'm going through all the US Cities (as per List of United States cities by population) in an effort to provide some uniformity in structure. Anyone have an issue with me restructuring this article as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/US Guideline. I won't be changing any content, merely the order. Occasionally, I will also move a picture just to clean up spacing issues. I've already gone through the top 20 or so on the above list, if you'd like to see how they turned out. Thoughts? Onel5969 (talk) 16:22, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Population vs. area

@Onel5969: I have a feeling that you and I are on the same page on this issue. If I am incorrect, I hope to sway you. It's not a huge deal for me but I am a stickler when it comes to the use of the word "large"; I strongly feel that "large" should only be used to describe size, not population. It makes more sense that way. Even if it could be argued that they are interchangeable (as nearly any dictionary would contend my stance on this), I don't think that anyone could argue that it isn't preferable, for the sake of clarity, to delineate "most populous" from "largest by area". If you feel differently, I'll look forward to your response on the subject.--Paisan1 (talk) 21:02, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

For Baltimore, I cannot find any statistics of comparison by area for Maryland cities. I have a feeling, however, that it is both the largest by size AND population within the state. I leave the wording along until hearing back from you or others on the subject. --Paisan1 (talk) 21:00, 23 June 2014 (UTC)