Talk:Sigmund Freud

John Murray Cuddihy

Is the 1974 book The Ordeal of Civility by American sociologist John Murray Cuddihy a suitable source for this article? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:04, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

That's not the only question that has to be asked. Another question is whether the editor who was adding material from that source was using it responsibly. I don't have access to it myself, so I can't really tell. The material certainly seems to express an extreme, fringe view, however. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 22:10, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Cuddihy seems to have had quite a firm and quite skewed sociological agenda. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:16, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Freud's belief that Jews were suprerior - unmentionable?

It seem's strange that we cannot include quotes by Freud that indicate he believed that Jews were supreior to non-Jews in a section of the article which is talking about Freud's Jewishness being important to the development of his intellectual thought and work. It seems to be the perfect place for this factual information.

See The Ordeal of Civility: Freud, Marx, Levi-Strauss and the Jewish Struggle with Modernity by John Murray Cuddihyfor details. That's an academic source not a blog or some random website.

"The Christian religion did not keep to the lofty heights of spirituality to which the Jewish religion had soared" - Moses and Monotheism by Freud, page 112.

"When one thinks that 10 or 12 of the Nobel winners are Jews, and when one thinks of their other great achievements in the sciences and in the arts, one has every reason to think them superior" - page 36 of The Ordeal of Civility - direct quote of Freud

VivaElGeneralissmo (talk) 22:09, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Please see WP:UNDUE. There is no reason the article should quote every statement Freud ever made - as editors we need to use good judgement about what and what not to include. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 22:11, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Exactly which quite(s) are you proposing to add and where? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:13, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

I think it is important for it to be mentioned that Freud thought that Jews were better than non-Jews when quite a significant portion of his thought centres around a criticism of gentile European Christian society. It informs people of his possible reasons for those beliefs.VivaElGeneralissmo (talk) 22:16, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Your telling us that "quite a significant portion of Freud's thought centres around a criticism of gentile European Christian society"? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:18, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

It's just a plain fact that it does. He criticises Christianity and Christian sexual mores extensively. I think the removal of this material is clear POV pushing.VivaElGeneralissmo (talk) 22:29, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Can you give us an example of this "extensive" criticism? Are you now moving away from your initial tenet that Freud believed "Jews were superior to non-Jews"? And how does Cuddihy fit into all of this? Your repeated additions to the article suggest that you personally think this was Freud's view, or that you think Cuddihy's view, which you also espouse, is held generally by most scholars of Freud. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:34, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Why would I need to move away from that when we can see from Freud's own words that this is true: "one has every reason to think them superior"?

Perhaps including this direct quote rather than a reference would be best. I'm sure we can agree on that.VivaElGeneralissmo (talk) 22:41, 20 October 2015 (UTC)