Talk:Fascism

Auschwitz in See also section

With all due respect to all those affected by the Holocaust, I think it's a tad melodramatic to put "Auschwitz" in the "See also" section. The racial policies of Nazi Germany are mentioned in only a few sentences in this article, and there are no mentions of Facism in the article on Auschwitz. They're related, but not directly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:4080:1008:0:C46B:F7C5:3EBA:586F (talk) 07:15, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Agree that both that and Slavery are slightly random inclusions. And even if it was going to include something related to the Holocaust, why single out Auschwitz? N-HH talk/edits 10:10, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Now it's Buchenwald. Can someone remove this ? I have never read anywhere that anyone claims Italy participated in German concentration camps. The photo and paragraph are obviously ill-intentioned smears. I might just as accurately put photos of Khmer Rouge atrocities under the Richard Nixon page, just becaause he dealt with Norodim Sihanouk. It's ridiculous.210.22.142.82 (talk) 09:38, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2016

Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe, influenced by national syndicalism. Fascism originated in Italy during World War I and spread to other European countries. Fascism opposes liberalism and conservatism, Marxism and anarchism and is usually placed on the far-right, far left within the traditional left–right spectrum.

Fascists believe that liberal conservative democracy is obsolete, and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties. Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society. Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature, and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation. Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.

My explanation, we all due respect conservatives alone are not the sole source of fascism in the EU or USA but I feel that someone edited the upper portion of this page to make it look as though only far right types could be fascist yet proof exists on the far left and is not just limited to the FDR Franklin Delano Roosevelt administration policy at times. Therefore I added the words far left in several locations, that is the only change requested. There has been a continuing internet argument that fascism is only on one side and plenty of proof exists to the fact it exists on both sides of the aisle, I feel the edit was a smear on conservatives in general and I've seen both sides engage in such tomfoolery and it's not an accurate reflection of the facts. Also, I'm not asking for this paragraph to be included, I simply want editors to understand my thinking and I'll be glad to cite more sources. Thank you.

My source:

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determine.

As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie. Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.

It is a matter of controversy whether President Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal was directly influenced by fascist economic policies. Mussolini praised the New Deal as “boldly . . . interventionist in the field of economics,” and Roosevelt complimented Mussolini for his “honest purpose of restoring Italy” and acknowledged that he kept “in fairly close touch with that admirable Italian gentleman.” Also, Hugh Johnson, head of the National Recovery Administration, was known to carry a copy of Raffaello Viglione’s pro-Mussolini book, The Corporate State, with him, presented a copy to Labor Secretary Frances Perkins, and, on retirement, paid tribute to the Italian dictator.

Juggernautz (talk) 01:50, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

References

Your source is fringe and does not reflect the opinions of informed sources. There are many serious scholars of fascism. I recommend Kallis' Fascism Reader which provides articles from most of the foremost scholars on the topic representing a range of views within the mainstream. Incidentally, while I have found sources that Johnson gave Perkins a copy of The Corporate State, I can find no evidence that it was ever published or that Raffaello Viglione ever existed. Can you provide details of the book's publication? TFD (talk) 02:03, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template.  ^B E _C K ^Y _S A ^{Y L} E _S  22:36, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 July 2016 for "Fascism"

The proposed edit involves the last sentence of the introductory paragraph for "Fascism". The sentence reads "Fascism opposes liberalisism, Marxism, and anarchism and is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional left-right spectrum".

This statement is most likely not true, and at the very least very dubious, as fascist societies tend to be on the far left of a properly defined political spectrum. Fascist governments tend to restrict free markets, and individual liberties.

 The most significant examples of leftist fascism in modern history would be, Communist USSR, Communist China, and also the Nazi Party of Germany.   The Nazi party, aka the National Socialist German Workers Party, were proponents of socialism, and opponents of capitalism. A modern-day example of leftist fascism would be Communist North Korea.    

So I propose the last sentence of the first paragraph be edited to read "Fascism generally opposes classical liberalism, anarchism, and capitalism."

Sources:

https://www.theobjectivestandard.com/2012/06/political-left-and-right-properly-defined/

https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian

Mgaudzels (talk) 15:58, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Ahahahaha no. Try some less overtly biased sources. AlexTiefling (talk) 15:59, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

 Not done as WP:UNDUE "If a viewpoint is held by an extremely small (or vastly limited) minority, it does not belong on Wikipedia" - Arjayay (talk) 16:54, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

At the very least the statement that fascism "is usually placed on the far-right" should be removed. This suggestion is purely politically motivated and is held by the minority. Highly subjective statements in this context have no place on Wikipedia. According to Wikipeida, "there is no firm consensus about the meaning of the terms left-wing and right-wing on the global level". However in America, in general, "right-wing implies a commitment to conservative Christian values, support for a free-market system and civil libertarianism(Which emphasizes the supremacy of individual rights and personal freedoms over and against any kind of authority)". Nothing about these beliefs are consistent with fascism. You cannot be both for small government, individual liberties, and also be fascist. This does not need a reference, it is simple logic. Most would place the best know fascistic dictators: Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Hitler, FDR... on the left side(socialist, communist, democrat...) of the American left-right spectrum. Leaving this statement on the page would be irresponsible as it is simply untrue. --Calebjely (talk) 16:58, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

 Not done; goes against consensus of long standing, both on and off Wikipedia; obviously trolling. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:15, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Please provide evidence of "consensus of long standing, both on and off Wikipedia". I quoted Wikipedia "there is no firm consensus about the meaning of the terms left-wing and right-wing on the global level". Your user page stating you are a Bernie Supporter and "disgusted by the corruption and stupidity of Southern politic" shows your bias as Administrator in editing a page on this topic in good faith. --Calebjely (talk) 18:04, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Forget it, Caleb. Young people in the US today have very limited binary minds. Conservatives = right-wing, Conservatives = bad, Fascism = bad, therefore fascism = conservative = right-wing. You can blame it on smart(?)phones and text messages. And the idiot yellow press. Maybe when he gets older things won't seem so black-and-white but for now, save your breath. 210.22.142.82 (talk) 09:30, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

//Hey guys not sure where to post this. I throughly disagree that fascism has at it's core tenets imperialism, as eurasianism is in it's own weird way anti-imperialist.// — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.204.1.1 (talk) 17:01, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

There is an article, Italian imperialism under Fascism, that explains the Fascist project to create an Italian Empire. In Germany, the "Third Reich" was a clear implication that it was the successor of the Holy Roman Empire and the German Empire. Both regimes used symbolism from the Roman Empire. TFD (talk) 18:22, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Race for more power

There was an older version that explained Race was something the Fascist used for political power by playing the races off one another thus more power for the state, and by disenfranchising a segment(s) of the population of a nation. I thought that was more accurate (of the past or present) I guess it got memory holed.207.119.215.206 (talk) 22:23, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 August 2016

Please change

Fascism opposes liberalism, Marxism and anarchism and is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.

to

Fascism opposes liberalism, Marxism and anarchism and is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional Europeanleft–right spectrum.

because European political structures are significantly different than American. IE Right wing Europeans are still significantly to the left of the American right wing.

Alephbell (talk) 18:48, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

 Not done. Regardless, "Right-wing" is still an appropriate descriptor, whichever spectrum one uses. GAB^gab 20:26, 17 August 2016 (UTC)