Talk:Cat

"Toxin" doesn't mean what you think it means

See the article "toxin": "A toxin (from Ancient Greek: τοξικόν toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced within living cells or organisms; synthetic toxicants created by artificial processes are thus excluded. The term was first used by organic chemist Ludwig Brieger (1849–1919)."

So a cat would only rarely be "exposed" to toxins (produced in some other organism's cells), it would more likely be exposed to environmental toxicants. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.68.207.204 (talk) 08:05, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Felis silvestris catus vs. Felis catus

F. catus is an semi-archaic classification synonym to F. silvestris catus. (The sidebar states that it's a subjective synonym, which are classification names that some would argue overlap perfectly, while others may have differing ways of differentiating the two nomenclature. Basically, exact classification is up for debate.) However, the opening of this article states that domestic cats are F. catus and free-ranging ferals are F. silvestris catus as though that's an objective and widely used way of using those nomenclatures, which is untrue. I'd like to see a clearer opening statement stating F. catus and F. silvesris catus are both appropriate and synonymous names for domestic cats, and perhaps linking to the explanation of the differences listed lower in the article (which unlike the opening, is actually correct). I would be happy to rewrite the opening myself but I'd like permission before doing so given the importance of this article.

In addition, if the two terms are truly subjective synonyms rather than true synonyms, that needs to be reflected in the Taxonomy paragraph as well, with actual sources. -- 05:47, 9 August 2016‎ 2601:192:4603:28c0:195b:5327:9f4c:7599

I'd like to add that feral cats ARE domestic cats--they are the exact same species! I don't know who wrote that part of the article but their assertion makes absolutely no sense. I think I'll stick with Felis sylvestris catus to distinguish them from African wildcats even though if you want to get technical that's the same cat too. They cross-breed with absolutely no trouble at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.118.44.180 (talk) 15:48, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

tigers and lions cross breed fine( tigons and ligers, and they're different species. So, why can't cats and wildcats crossbreed? 208.114.41.213 (talk) 01:48, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Etymology: 'kattepus' listed as a Swedish word

It's been raised before (page 12 of the talk archive, I believe), but since it's still in the article (including in the Norwegian version of it, which makes even less sense in my eyes) I thought I should bring it up again.

In the section regarding etymology, pussycat is said to be "related to Swedish kattepus, or Norwegian pus, pusekatt". However, as far as I've been able to determine, kattepus has never been a Swedish word. The Swedish version is instead "kissekatt" or its older version "kisse". The Swedish Academy's Dictionary (Svenska Akademiens Ordbok) lists examples as far back as 1730 of usage of the word "kisse", but has no entries or mentions of "kattepus". There is one mention of "kisspuss" (dialectally "kissepus") as a compound term, however, but with only one lyrical quote demonstrating its use.

It seems more likely that the word might have been Danish, since the Danish word for cat, kat, is changed to "katte-" in compound words (such as "kattemad", cat food, "kattehår", cat hair, and others), and "pus" is a term of endearment for children and animals, also used as a calling sound for cats. A quick google search, however, says that the word is used in a well-known Norwegian children's song by Alf Prøysen (1914-1970).

However, Norway and Sweden share a very long border, not to mention that at the beginning of the 16th century Sweden was still part of the Kalmar Union (comprised of Norway, Denmark and Sweden, including any outlying territories of those three countries) and had before that often shared its monarchs with Norway (King Magnus IV of Sweden, Norway and Scania, 1319-1343 (Scania 1332-1360), and King Haakon VI of Norway (1343-1380) and Sweden (1362-1364), to give two examples). So at the time frame the article references (the 16th century), I'd wager that Norwegian was used in Sweden as much as or more than Swedish itself was used, considering how the native languages of Wales and Finland were treated when the countries were conquered by England and Sweden, respectively. I'd also guess that the term "kisspuss" or "kissepus" was coined at some point during that time due to the mix of languages (not only Swedish and Norwegian, but also Danish).

While it's entirely possible that the relatively similar "kattepus" came to be about the same time, I can find no evidence of it, and it seems to me that if it was used here it was a much more short-lived term than the other two (implying it was less popular and/or commonly used). It is, of course, entirely possible that it's an even older term, since the four languages of Icelandic, Danish, Norwegian and Swedish all developed from the same root (Old Norse), and it seems reasonable that the languages remained closer than they are today for quite a while after becoming separate languages. But going that far back, it'd be more fair to call it "Late Old Swedish" or "Early Modern Swedish" instead of "Swedish". It's similar to claiming that a word that hasn't been used since Middle or Early Modern English should be listed as an English word. Just a few sentences later, a distinction is made for Early Modern English compared to English, after all ("In Early Modern English, the word 'kitten' was interchangeable with the now-obsolete word 'catling'"). And if it's a Danish or Norwegian term, borrowed into Swedish, it is similar to saying that "nom de guerre" is an English term.

I'd also like to add that Swedish and Norwegian in that sentence are not listed under the heading of "may have been introduced from", but rather under "related to", which as far as I can tell can include more modern terms that are related to the term you're comparing it to (in this case, the English "pussycat"). In that respect, listing "kattepus" as a Swedish word makes even less sense to me.

To put it simply, I would like to request that one of the following be done about it:

1) That the word "kattepus" in the etymology section be replaced by "kisse, kissekatt" since from evidence available to me those two seem to have been the more common, and the prevailing, terms used in Swedish.

2) That the reference/comparison to "kattepus" is removed entirely from that sentence.

94.254.54.7 (talk) 20:56, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 25 October 2016

"The African wildcat, Felis silvestris lybica, is the ancestor of the domestic cat." is arguably wrong, should be "The African wildcat... and the domestic cat share a most recent common ancestor." or something along those lines.

Fethalen (talk) 21:08, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

@Fethalen: hello, do you have any references to reliable sources that support this change? MPS1992 (talk) 21:38, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

{{done}}. To editors Fethalen and MPS1992: In the image caption, "ancestors", whether individuals or species, are either dead or extinct - the article content indicates "closely related".  Paine  ^u/c 17:40, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Undone: This request has been partially undone. On further reading, we see that the subspecies did exist back when domestication began and is believed to be ancestral to modern domesticates. So I have undone the edit and hopefully clarified it a bit in the image caption.  Paine  ^u/c 18:01, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Plant-eating

Cats eat grass to purposefully throw up. And other times they just enjoy the taste. Maybe it's sweet. Definitely seasonal. Anyone who has grown up with a multitude of cats know that eating grass is not an attempt to get some mineral. Sure, if they want one thing and not another... ok. But, eating grass is a regular thing like all mamals chew on spring. -Thank you for reading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:B198:9B10:9BA:28FC:BD3:57FF (talk) 07:15, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

I'd also like to add that cats intuitively (like most hunters) eat bodies, not just "meat". There are absolutely benefits to eating a rabbit for example who still had a salad in it's stomach. So yes, in eating grass etc, the cat would be getting their A B and Cs, etc. When a cat eats something it didn't want to, it goes for the grass right away. It will actually beg to go outside to get it. This whole article is a bunch of armchair anthropology. I think we can trust what cats tell us. These are pets, not just species. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:B198:9B10:9BA:28FC:BD3:57FF (talk) 07:30, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2016

I only think cat lovers will come to this page so I suggest that we add that cats are low maintenance pets.

signed fivezigzag Fivezigzag (talk) 13:59, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 15:39, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Felis silvestris catus vs Felis silvestris silvestris

This article states the domestic cat species as Felis catus, and wildcat as Felis silvestris. This however is not true. This can be validated simply by the definition of a species - a population of animals with similar morphs that can breed to produce fertile offspring. If the domestic cat and wildcat were in fact 2 separate species then hybridisation would not be able to occur - a process that is stated to occur later in the article. The domestic cat and wildcat are therefore different subspecies of the same species - Felis silvestris. Felis silvestris catus is the domestic subspecies and Felis silvestris silvestris is the European wildcat species. In addition to this there are a number of other subspecies of wildcats in other continents - such as the African wildcat (Felis silvestris lybica) and Indian desert cat (Felis silvestris ornata)

Sources are many, and just by reading the definition of what a species is you can work out the information on this page is incorrect, but here's a paper stating it too:

<ref>Driscoll et al. (2010) A Suite of Genetic Markers Useful in Assessing Wildcat (Felis silvestris ssp.)- Domestic Cat (Felis silvestris catus) Admixture. Journal of Heredity, 102, 87-90. doi: 10.1093/jhered/esr047.<ref> <ref>http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/102/Suppl_1/S87.full<ref>

WillHalls (talk) 11:20, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi. I was taught exactly the same definition as you and was quite happy with that for many years. However, wikipedia has taught me that things are not always as black-or-white as we might think. I also have a friend who is an expert in taxonomy and whenever I ask him such questions, his answer is "it depends which book you read". A little unhelpful, but true. Have a look at our article Species problem. Best of luck in sorting it out! DrChrissy ^(talk) 18:03, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Sorry

I write a lot of articles on infection, bacteria and other medical content. But for an article to be encyclopedic, and as uncomfortable as the topic of cat diseases can get, I mean no harm and I am adding information in good faith. If there is a problem with the content that I have added, please feel to comment here or on my talk page The Very Best of Regards,

Barbara (WVS) (talk) 22:01, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Some food cats can not eat24.14.248.89 (talk) 23:13, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Cats are allergenic to milk and chocolate

Cats are not allergic to milk. And the toxicity of chocolate is already mentioned in the article. Mediatech492 (talk) 03:21, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

After weaning, milk is not necessary in a cat's diet. Their ability to digest lactose reduces. Cats can even become intolerant to ordinary cows' milk, resulting in the diarrhea. By the way......is this talked about in the article??208.114.41.213 (talk) 01:03, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Cat Fathers Improvement

The article states that male cats have no involvement in the raising of kittens, but this requires further research. The statement is not accurate, both based on my own findings with my cats and articles such as this one, which is just one of dozens: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-normal-for-male-cats-to-take-care-of-the-kittens. If there's not much research on the subject, then it would be good to rework this section (the section pertaining to cat's behavior of bringing home prey to humans) into a more generalized summary, rather than absolute language. I think it's been well understood that males most certainly can take a role in the raising of offspring, and in my personal experience, they will absolutely bring food home to their young ones, which flies directly in the face of the article quoted here. Hopefully more research on male cat behavior becomes available soon! Template:Vital article

"Toxin" doesn't mean what you think it means

See the article "toxin": "A toxin (from Ancient Greek: τοξικόν toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced within living cells or organisms; synthetic toxicants created by artificial processes are thus excluded. The term was first used by organic chemist Ludwig Brieger (1849–1919)."

So a cat would only rarely be "exposed" to toxins (produced in some other organism's cells), it would more likely be exposed to environmental toxicants. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.68.207.204 (talk) 08:05, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Felis silvestris catus vs. Felis catus

F. catus is an semi-archaic classification synonym to F. silvestris catus. (The sidebar states that it's a subjective synonym, which are classification names that some would argue overlap perfectly, while others may have differing ways of differentiating the two nomenclature. Basically, exact classification is up for debate.) However, the opening of this article states that domestic cats are F. catus and free-ranging ferals are F. silvestris catus as though that's an objective and widely used way of using those nomenclatures, which is untrue. I'd like to see a clearer opening statement stating F. catus and F. silvesris catus are both appropriate and synonymous names for domestic cats, and perhaps linking to the explanation of the differences listed lower in the article (which unlike the opening, is actually correct). I would be happy to rewrite the opening myself but I'd like permission before doing so given the importance of this article.

In addition, if the two terms are truly subjective synonyms rather than true synonyms, that needs to be reflected in the Taxonomy paragraph as well, with actual sources. -- 05:47, 9 August 2016‎ 2601:192:4603:28c0:195b:5327:9f4c:7599

I'd like to add that feral cats ARE domestic cats--they are the exact same species! I don't know who wrote that part of the article but their assertion makes absolutely no sense. I think I'll stick with Felis sylvestris catus to distinguish them from African wildcats even though if you want to get technical that's the same cat too. They cross-breed with absolutely no trouble at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.118.44.180 (talk) 15:48, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

tigers and lions cross breed fine( tigons and ligers, and they're different species. So, why can't cats and wildcats crossbreed? 208.114.41.213 (talk) 01:48, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Etymology: 'kattepus' listed as a Swedish word

It's been raised before (page 12 of the talk archive, I believe), but since it's still in the article (including in the Norwegian version of it, which makes even less sense in my eyes) I thought I should bring it up again.

In the section regarding etymology, pussycat is said to be "related to Swedish kattepus, or Norwegian pus, pusekatt". However, as far as I've been able to determine, kattepus has never been a Swedish word. The Swedish version is instead "kissekatt" or its older version "kisse". The Swedish Academy's Dictionary (Svenska Akademiens Ordbok) lists examples as far back as 1730 of usage of the word "kisse", but has no entries or mentions of "kattepus". There is one mention of "kisspuss" (dialectally "kissepus") as a compound term, however, but with only one lyrical quote demonstrating its use.

It seems more likely that the word might have been Danish, since the Danish word for cat, kat, is changed to "katte-" in compound words (such as "kattemad", cat food, "kattehår", cat hair, and others), and "pus" is a term of endearment for children and animals, also used as a calling sound for cats. A quick google search, however, says that the word is used in a well-known Norwegian children's song by Alf Prøysen (1914-1970).

However, Norway and Sweden share a very long border, not to mention that at the beginning of the 16th century Sweden was still part of the Kalmar Union (comprised of Norway, Denmark and Sweden, including any outlying territories of those three countries) and had before that often shared its monarchs with Norway (King Magnus IV of Sweden, Norway and Scania, 1319-1343 (Scania 1332-1360), and King Haakon VI of Norway (1343-1380) and Sweden (1362-1364), to give two examples). So at the time frame the article references (the 16th century), I'd wager that Norwegian was used in Sweden as much as or more than Swedish itself was used, considering how the native languages of Wales and Finland were treated when the countries were conquered by England and Sweden, respectively. I'd also guess that the term "kisspuss" or "kissepus" was coined at some point during that time due to the mix of languages (not only Swedish and Norwegian, but also Danish).

While it's entirely possible that the relatively similar "kattepus" came to be about the same time, I can find no evidence of it, and it seems to me that if it was used here it was a much more short-lived term than the other two (implying it was less popular and/or commonly used). It is, of course, entirely possible that it's an even older term, since the four languages of Icelandic, Danish, Norwegian and Swedish all developed from the same root (Old Norse), and it seems reasonable that the languages remained closer than they are today for quite a while after becoming separate languages. But going that far back, it'd be more fair to call it "Late Old Swedish" or "Early Modern Swedish" instead of "Swedish". It's similar to claiming that a word that hasn't been used since Middle or Early Modern English should be listed as an English word. Just a few sentences later, a distinction is made for Early Modern English compared to English, after all ("In Early Modern English, the word 'kitten' was interchangeable with the now-obsolete word 'catling'"). And if it's a Danish or Norwegian term, borrowed into Swedish, it is similar to saying that "nom de guerre" is an English term.

I'd also like to add that Swedish and Norwegian in that sentence are not listed under the heading of "may have been introduced from", but rather under "related to", which as far as I can tell can include more modern terms that are related to the term you're comparing it to (in this case, the English "pussycat"). In that respect, listing "kattepus" as a Swedish word makes even less sense to me.

To put it simply, I would like to request that one of the following be done about it:

1) That the word "kattepus" in the etymology section be replaced by "kisse, kissekatt" since from evidence available to me those two seem to have been the more common, and the prevailing, terms used in Swedish.

2) That the reference/comparison to "kattepus" is removed entirely from that sentence.

94.254.54.7 (talk) 20:56, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 25 October 2016

"The African wildcat, Felis silvestris lybica, is the ancestor of the domestic cat." is arguably wrong, should be "The African wildcat... and the domestic cat share a most recent common ancestor." or something along those lines.

Fethalen (talk) 21:08, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

@Fethalen: hello, do you have any references to reliable sources that support this change? MPS1992 (talk) 21:38, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

{{done}}. To editors Fethalen and MPS1992: In the image caption, "ancestors", whether individuals or species, are either dead or extinct - the article content indicates "closely related".  Paine  ^u/c 17:40, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Undone: This request has been partially undone. On further reading, we see that the subspecies did exist back when domestication began and is believed to be ancestral to modern domesticates. So I have undone the edit and hopefully clarified it a bit in the image caption.  Paine  ^u/c 18:01, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Plant-eating

Cats eat grass to purposefully throw up. And other times they just enjoy the taste. Maybe it's sweet. Definitely seasonal. Anyone who has grown up with a multitude of cats know that eating grass is not an attempt to get some mineral. Sure, if they want one thing and not another... ok. But, eating grass is a regular thing like all mamals chew on spring. -Thank you for reading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:B198:9B10:9BA:28FC:BD3:57FF (talk) 07:15, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

I'd also like to add that cats intuitively (like most hunters) eat bodies, not just "meat". There are absolutely benefits to eating a rabbit for example who still had a salad in it's stomach. So yes, in eating grass etc, the cat would be getting their A B and Cs, etc. When a cat eats something it didn't want to, it goes for the grass right away. It will actually beg to go outside to get it. This whole article is a bunch of armchair anthropology. I think we can trust what cats tell us. These are pets, not just species. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:B198:9B10:9BA:28FC:BD3:57FF (talk) 07:30, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2016

I only think cat lovers will come to this page so I suggest that we add that cats are low maintenance pets.

signed fivezigzag Fivezigzag (talk) 13:59, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 15:39, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Felis silvestris catus vs Felis silvestris silvestris

This article states the domestic cat species as Felis catus, and wildcat as Felis silvestris. This however is not true. This can be validated simply by the definition of a species - a population of animals with similar morphs that can breed to produce fertile offspring. If the domestic cat and wildcat were in fact 2 separate species then hybridisation would not be able to occur - a process that is stated to occur later in the article. The domestic cat and wildcat are therefore different subspecies of the same species - Felis silvestris. Felis silvestris catus is the domestic subspecies and Felis silvestris silvestris is the European wildcat species. In addition to this there are a number of other subspecies of wildcats in other continents - such as the African wildcat (Felis silvestris lybica) and Indian desert cat (Felis silvestris ornata)

Sources are many, and just by reading the definition of what a species is you can work out the information on this page is incorrect, but here's a paper stating it too:

<ref>Driscoll et al. (2010) A Suite of Genetic Markers Useful in Assessing Wildcat (Felis silvestris ssp.)- Domestic Cat (Felis silvestris catus) Admixture. Journal of Heredity, 102, 87-90. doi: 10.1093/jhered/esr047.<ref> <ref>http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/102/Suppl_1/S87.full<ref>

WillHalls (talk) 11:20, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi. I was taught exactly the same definition as you and was quite happy with that for many years. However, wikipedia has taught me that things are not always as black-or-white as we might think. I also have a friend who is an expert in taxonomy and whenever I ask him such questions, his answer is "it depends which book you read". A little unhelpful, but true. Have a look at our article Species problem. Best of luck in sorting it out! DrChrissy ^(talk) 18:03, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Sorry

I write a lot of articles on infection, bacteria and other medical content. But for an article to be encyclopedic, and as uncomfortable as the topic of cat diseases can get, I mean no harm and I am adding information in good faith. If there is a problem with the content that I have added, please feel to comment here or on my talk page The Very Best of Regards,

Barbara (WVS) (talk) 22:01, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Some food cats can not eat24.14.248.89 (talk) 23:13, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Cats are allergenic to milk and chocolate

Cats are not allergic to milk. And the toxicity of chocolate is already mentioned in the article. Mediatech492 (talk) 03:21, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

After weaning, milk is not necessary in a cat's diet. Their ability to digest lactose reduces. Cats can even become intolerant to ordinary cows' milk, resulting in the diarrhea. By the way......is this talked about in the article??208.114.41.213 (talk) 01:03, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Cat Fathers Improvement

The article states that male cats have no involvement in the raising of kittens, but this requires further research. The statement is not accurate, both based on my own findings with my cats and articles such as this one, which is just one of dozens: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-normal-for-male-cats-to-take-care-of-the-kittens. If there's not much research on the subject, then it would be good to rework this section (the section pertaining to cat's behavior of bringing home prey to humans) into a more generalized summary, rather than absolute language. I think it's been well understood that males most certainly can take a role in the raising of offspring, and in my personal experience, they will absolutely bring food home to their young ones, which flies directly in the face of the article quoted here. Hopefully more research on male cat behavior becomes available soon!