Talk:List of countries by GDP (nominal)

EUROZONE INSTEAD OF EUROPEAN UNION Better add the just the €urozone ($ 13 Tr.) instead of the European Union (E.U.) which is just a Common Market (and now the UK is not part of it...)--83.165.178.34 (talk) 13:51, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

The EU is not a country.--213.60.237.52 (talk) 13:01, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Can we add in ASEAN, Union of South American Nations, Eurasian Union, GCC and African Union as well? They are also not countries just like EU. I find it odd that EU is on the page but not the other blocs. 175.156.16.78 (talk) 05:26, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Oh, dear ...

The EU is not a country. Enough of this ridiculous Wiki propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.68.94.86 (talk) 17:42, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

The list is a list of economies, not countries per se. The EU is frequently cited as being a distinct economic unit (unlike other multi-national blocs such as Nafta etc.), and is, most pertinently, on the source lists. If we insist on making this a list of only countries, even when the sources don't make this distinction, we'd need to remove Hong Kong, the United Kingdom (which has four constituent countries), etc., which is OR. Canada Jack (talk) 21:54, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

The good question is: Should the EU Ever Be Considered the World's Largest Economy?: to be or not to be?

Their answer is on their website: https://www.thebalance.com/world-s-largest-economy-3306044

This source let understand there are two POVs. So the introduction could say so, based on such a source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.193.103.134 (talk) 18:59, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Mistake

The countries' GDP has been accurately upgraded but the editor has forgotten to upgrade the World GDP count which is extremely inaccurate.

Semi-protected edit request on 22 March 2018

Country Name Continent Name Per Capita GDP (in $) Population in Millions Unemployment Rate Population Below Poverty

Qatar	Asia	127660	2.6	0.4	0
Luxembourg	Europe	104003	0.6	6.5	0

 Singapore Asia 87855 5.6 2.2 0  Kuwait Asia 71887 4.1 3 0  Norway Europe 69249 5.2 4 0  Ireland Europe 69231 4.8 6 8.2  United Arab Emirates Asia 67871 9.3 4.3 19.5  Switzerland Europe 59561 8.4 5.2 6.6  United States North America 57436 323.1 4.4 15.1  Saudi Arabia Asia 55158 32.3 12.8 0  Netherlands Europe 51049 17 4.4 8.8  Bahrain Asia 50704 1.4 4.1 0  Sweden Europe 49836 9.9 6.1 15  Iceland Europe 49136 0.3 1.9 0  Australia Oceania 48899 24.1 5.8 0  Germany Europe 48111 82.7 3.7 16.7  Austria Europe 48005 8.7 8.6 4  Denmark Europe 47985 5.7 5.8 13.4  Canada North America 46437 36.3 6.6 9.4  Belgium Europe 45047 11.3 7.6 15.1  United Kingdom Europe 42481 65.6 4.3 15  France Europe 42314 66.9 9.6 14  Finland Europe 42165 5.5 7.9 0  Japan Asia 41275 127 3 16.1  Malta Europe 39834 0.4 5.2 16.3  Equatorial Guinea Africa 38639 1.2 22.3 44  New Zealand Oceania 37294 4.7 5.1 0  Italy Europe 36833 60.6 11.6 29.9  Spain Europe 36416 46.4 16.4 21.1  Israel Asia 35179 8.5 4.1 22  Cyprus Asia 34970 1.2 12 0  Czech Republic Europe 33232 10.6 2.9 0  Slovenia Europe 32085 2.1 7.1 14.3  Trinidad and Tobago North America 31870 1.4 4.5 20  Lithuania Europe 29972 2.9 9.2 22.2  Estonia Europe 29313 1.3 6.3 21.3  Portugal Europe 28933 10.3 8.5 19  Poland Europe 27764 37.9 4.8 17.6  Hungary Europe 27482 9.8 3.8 14.9  Malaysia Asia 27267 31.2 3.5 3.8  Greece Europe 26669 10.7 21.2 36  Latvia Europe 25710 2 9.8 25.5  Antigua and Barbuda North America 25157 0.1 11 0  Kazakhstan Asia 25145 17.8 6.1 2.7  Turkey Asia 24912 79.5 11.8 21.9  Chile America 24113 17.9 5.9 14.4  Panama North America 23024 4 4.5 23  Croatia Europe 22795 4.2 10.8 19.5  Romania Europe 22348 19.7 4.18 22.4  Uruguay America 21527 3.4 9 9.7  Mauritius Africa 20422 1.3 7.8 8  Bulgaria Europe 20327 7.1 7.7 22  Argentina America 20047 43.8 8.7 32.2  Gabon Africa 19056 2 28 34.3  Mexico North America 18938 127.5 3.7 46.2  Lebanon Asia 18525 6 10 28.6  Belarus Europe 18000 9.5 0.7 5.7  Iraq Asia 17944 37.2 16 23  Turkmenistan Asia 17485 5.7 8.6 0.2  Azerbaijan Asia 17439 9.8 6.4 4.9  Barbados North America 17100 0.3 9.9 0  Botswana Africa 17042 2.3 20 30.3  Thailand Asia 16888 68.9 0.9 7.2  Montenegro Europe 16643 0.6 18.3 8.6  Costa Rica North America 16436 4.9 9.7 21.7  Dominican Republic North America 16049 10.6 14.4 30.5  China Asia 15399 1378.7 4.1 6.5  Brazil America 15242 207.7 13.1 8.5  Algeria Africa 15026 40.6 11.2 23  Serbia Europe 14493 7.1 11.8 8.9  Colombia America 14130 48.7 8.9 27.8  Grenada North America 14116 0.1 24.5 38  Suriname America 13988 0.6 8.9 70  South Africa Africa 13225 55.9 26.5 16.6  Peru America 12903 31.8 6.1 22.7  Jordan Asia 12278 9.5 11.1 14.2  Mongolia Asia 12275 3 7.7 21.6  Sri Lanka Asia 12262 21.2 4.2 6.7  Albania Europe 11840 2.9 14.2 14.3  Indonesia Asia 11720 261.1 5.33 10.9  Tunisia Africa 11634 11.4 15.2 15.5  Dominica North America 11375 0.1 23 29  Namibia Africa 11290 2.5 28.1 28.7  Ecuador America 11109 16.4 5.5 25.6  Bosnia and Herzegovina Europe 10958 3.5 20.5 17.2  Georgia Asia 10044 3.7 11.8 9.2  Swaziland Africa 9776 1.3 40.6 63  Paraguay America 9396 6.7 6.2 22.2  Fiji Oceania 9268 0.9 8.6 31  Jamaica North America 8976 2.9 13.8 16.5  El Salvador North America 8909 6.3 5.5 34.9  Libya Africa 8678 6.3 13 0  Armenia Asia 8621 2.9 18.5 32  Morocco Africa 8330 35.3 10.7 15  Ukraine Europe 8305 45 9.9 24.1  Bhutan Asia 8227 0.8 2.6 13.3  Belize North America 8220 0.4 12.9 41  Guatemala North America 7899 16.6 2.9 59.3  Guyana America 7873 0.8 9 35  Philippines Asia 7728 103.3 5.6 21.6  Bolivia America 7218 10.9 7.4 38.6  India Asia 6616 1324.2 3.4 21.9  Uzbekistan Asia 6563 31.8 8 14  Vietnam Asia 6429 92.7 3.4 11.3  Nigeria Africa 5942 186 13.9 70  Nicaragua North America 5452 6.1 6 29.6  Tonga Oceania 5386 0.1 6.5 24  Moldova Europe 5328 3.6 4.2 20.8  Honduras North America 5271 9.1 3.9 29.6  Pakistan Asia 5106 193.2 6.7 29.5  Sudan Africa 4447 39.6 13.6 46.5  Ghana Africa 4412 28.2 11.9 24.2  Mauritania Africa 4328 4.3 31 31  Bangladesh Asia 4207 163 4.9 31.5  Zambia Africa 3880 16.6 15 60.5  Cambodia Asia 3737 15.8 0.5 17.7  Lesotho Africa 3601 2.2 28.1 57  Papua New Guinea Oceania 3541 8.1 1.9 37  Djibouti Africa 3370 0.9 60 23  Kenya Africa 3361 48.5 42 43.4  Marshall Islands Oceania 3301 0.1 36 0  Tajikistan Asia 3008 8.7 2.4 31.5  Vanuatu Oceania 2631 0.3 4.6 0  Senegal Africa 2577 15.4 48 46.7  Chad Africa 2445 14.5 22.6 46.7  Mali Africa 2266 18 30 36.1  Rwanda Africa 1977 11.9 13.2 39.1  Zimbabwe Africa 1970 16.2 25 72.3  Afghanistan Asia 1919 34.7 35 35.8  Kiribati Oceania 1823 0.1 38.2 0  Sierra Leone Africa 1672 7.4 8.6 70.2  Comoros Africa 1529 0.8 6.5 44.8  Mozambique Africa 1215 28.8 17 46.1  Central African Republic Africa 652 4.6 8 0 Aloknitw (talk) 09:02, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 09:15, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 April 2018

India $2.65 trillion, GDp rank 5th TEDX1994 (talk) 17:54, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. NiciVampireHeart 18:02, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2018

The title of this article is "List of countries by GDP". It contains an entry, with references, in each table to the European Union. The European Union is not a country. And the figures provided for it's GDP are a summation of countries already listed, such as Germany, UK, France and Italy. This inclusion contaminates the figures presented and would indicate the inclusion of other customs unions and trading blocs. Bearing in mind that the EU does not use a single currency across all members. CRWPuk (talk) 10:16, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

This is a list of ECONOMIES, not countries, per se, the most common economic unit being countries, with some exceptions. And this is clearly stated in the lede. The lists go by the sources. The sources include the European Union because it is often cited as being a distinct economic entity, unlike NAFTA and other trading blocs. Also, as spelled out in the lede, the sources list numerous other non-countries, such as Hong Kong, and the United Kingdom (a state which consists of 4 countries, England, Scotland, Wales etc).

To insist on limiting this to countries, even when the sources do not, is engaging in OR. Canada Jack (talk) 17:26, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Misleading lead image?

I have some reservations about the way the EU is being portrayed in the lead image. It is being presented in comparison to sovereign states and not to other similar economic blocs. I note that in the other tables it appears in in the article it is not given a rank - presumably because it was realised the it would be like comparing apples with pears - but in the lead image it is presented as if ranked second.

There are multiple problems with this. Firstly it is out of scope in the article, the EU - as an economic bloc of 28 countries, is not a country, so with the article being titled "List of countries by GDP (nominal)", it is a misfit. Secondly, it is not usual in the RSes that include it (and not all do so we have a WP:WEIGHT/WP:NPOV issue in doing so here) to rank it in comparison to countries, although some do compare it with other economic blocs. Thirdly the lead talks about China having moved to second place in the rankings, yet the EU is given second place in the image and China third. Fourthly, reasons given for reverting my removal of it were erroneous: the EU does not have a "unified currency" - its 28 constituent sovereign states use a total of 11 different currencies, the IMF source quoted to support the image does not give "figures for the EU", and although the main table does include the EU, it is not given a ranking, so to claim "The EU was added to the main table after consensus from editors. This bar chart is a mere reflection of the table." does not cut the mustard here.

I propose that we either remove the current lead image or modify it to include only countries (i.e. remove the EU from it and insert the two EU countries that individually are ranked between Japan and India in terms of GDP). -- DeFacto (talk). 08:24, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

I guess maybe move the EU to a separate different chart image that shows the other economic blocs around the world???----PRChina999999999centillionYuanGDP (talk) 05:38, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

I've removed the EU from this chart as there is no apparent support to keep it after more than two weeks. -- DeFacto (talk). 06:04, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

EU-28 includes countries such as Germany and UK

Largest economies by nominal GDP in 2017, counting the economies of the European Union as one, according to International Monetary Fund estimates.

It looks like you are wrong for some of your arguments, and I would not like you made such a change with a misleading view:

• For the way you introduce your controversy:
  • «sovereign states»: The notion of sovereign state does not appear within the article. As is, this looks just out of topic. Anyway, the EU is an union of Sovereign state.
  • «similar economic blocs»: I am not sure there are economic blocs similar to the EU: USA is more integrated and NAFTA less; CIA says: «The 28 member states that make up the EU have adopted an internal single market with free movement of goods, services, capital, and labor. The EU, which is also a customs union, aims to bolster Europe's trade position and its political and economic weight in international affairs.» (according to the EU page of the CIA factbook).
  • If there is no rank in the table, no rank is needed in the graph. If it helps a different color might help to understand it is not ranked.
  • The probable reason there is no rank is that you cannot rank both the total and its parts.
  • «comparing apples with pears»: this would be comparing dollars and euros or RMB. This is not the case,
• 1/ «the EU - as an economic bloc of 28 countries, is not a country» with such an argument we could also say that «the USA - as an economic bloc of 51 countries, is not a country» This is not a true argument.
• 2/ with your WP:WEIGHT/WP:NPOV we could also say such graph show only one out of three views and so makes a NPOV issue. For the EU, data is provided by FMI, and by CIA CIA list.
• 3/ To show that China in second, we could change the color of the EU and/or move it in another column, with a comment possibly based on the CIA fact books.
• 4/ «were erroneous: the EU does not have a "unified currency"»:
  • The argument was «The EU is a supranational organization that functions as a single economic bloc with a unified currency. It is listed on the table for a reason, because the IMF data gives figures for the EU, so the bar chart reflects this. Please do not make edits according to your whims and fancies»
  • If you believe the question of currency is pertinent to GDB list, look at how the UK manage the Jersey pound
  • CIA fact books says: «The EU has achieved a high degree of coordination of monetary and fiscal policies. A common currency – the euro – circulates among 19 of the member states» Wikipedia adds: «All nations that have joined the EU since 1993 have pledged to adopt the euro in due course.» (UK being one of the specific cases) (see euro) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.193.103.134 (talk) 16:49, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Indian economy

India is now officially the sixth largest economy in the world. Please make necessary corrections before the page become worthless. Samanthathepirate (talk) 08:12, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Add in ASEAN

If GCC, EEU etc are added in, it is absurd not to add in ASEAN. 175.156.46.64 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:51, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

The grouping have been removed pending further discussion. @Odemirense: can you please discuss these here. AFAIK, these grouping numbers are not released by any of these agencies. So how were these numbers obtained? Thanks. Adamgerber80 (talk) 16:54, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

EU-28 includes countries such as Germany and UK

In dark blue, Blocs Gross domestic product estimates at current prices (2017 estimate), USD trillion, by PWC. Largest economies by nominal GDP in 2017, counting the economies of the European Union as one, according to International Monetary Fund estimates: light blue: countries out of any bloc pink: economies member of a wider bloc brawn: EU 28, IMF estimates

Here there are PWC blocs comparison (PWC source + graph). Graph as is includes both PWC estimates and FMI data, because it would not be logic to miss a big economy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.193.103.134 (talk) 18:39, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

@Adamgerber80: I didn't add ASEAN because as far as I know it is not an economic union, or am I wrong? Odemirense (talk) 14:30, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

If the other economic unions are excluded does it make sense that EU is included? Odemirense (talk) 14:33, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Disagree. EU is just a single anomaly on this list. No need to make such drastic changes due to EU. I prefer removing EU from the list if need be.175.156.30.112 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:45, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

I think it's interesting to keep the EU, but in that case the other economic unions that I had added should also be listed. Unless it's to be considered only economic and monetary union, but in that case it should not be the EU but the eurozone instead and it should also include the West African Economic and Monetary Union, which I had forgotten to add.Odemirense (talk) 11:44, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

My concerns are two fold. First, does the IMF or any other agency like the World Bank release just country wise numbers or in addition to these also releases numbers for different economic unions. If it does indeed release numbers for these various unions then maybe we can create a different column for it. But if it does not (including the EU) then these should be removed. I will spend some time and do a check on this and get back. Second is the argument on which unions should be included, here only those unions for which numbers are released can be included (in the same or a distinct column). We can perform WP:SYNTH on sources and just add numbers up. Adamgerber80 (talk) 13:21, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

I'd say remove the EU as an anomaly. Otherwise we'd need to try to decide which of all the other trading blocs and economic partnerships should be considered to be in scope too. -- DeFacto (talk). 14:14, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

By what I've seen in the sources, IMF and the World Bank don't have such groupings, but the UN has data for regions/subregions in 2016: Africa - Northern Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa further subdivided in Eastern, Middle, Southern and Western Africa; Asia - Central, Eastern, South-Eastern, Southern and Western Asia, Americas - Northern America and Latin America+The Caribbean - subdivided in Caribbean, Central America (I think Mexico is included here and not Northern America) and South America, Europe - Eastern, Northern, Southern and Western Europe, and Oceania - Australia and New Zealand, Melanesia, Micronesia and Polynesia. Odemirense (talk) 16:36, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Unlike those other economies, the EU is a distinct economy, and sources often treat it as such. I've never heard of Nafta or Asean treated as being distinct economies, nor am I aware that they ACT as distinct economies, like the EU when, for example, it enacted its recent law on internet privacy. Further, when one wants to negotiate trade deals, Trump, for example, is free to individually negotiate with Canada, with individual members of Asean - but he has voiced frustration in attempting to do the same with France and Germany - because the economic unit he has to deal with is the EU.

To pretend the EU is just an aggregate economy is as absurd as saying that the United States is just the sum of its individual States. Besides, we already have an example of an aggregate State here - the United Kingdom, comprising several countries, such as England and Scotland. If we are to remove the EU, logically, we should remove the UK. Canada Jack (talk) 19:20, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

No, the UK is a single sovereign state - as the US is, whereas the EU is a union of 28 sovereign states - each competing with each other for trade - but on a level playing field as they have all signed-up to the same rules of engagement. -- DeFacto (talk). 20:17, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

So I looked at the reference for IMF 2018 and it does NOT release a number for the European Union or any other economic combine. I propose we remove the EU numbers since as of now it is WP:SYNTH to include these numbers. We could have used WP:CALC but there is a worry of double counting given the different trade agreements they have within themselves. Adamgerber80 (talk) 16:53, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Economy of the European Union exists by itself. Now the IMF might not consider it for its own reasons; this is the IMF point of view: "EMU countries remain individual members of the IMF. Since the Fund's Articles of Agreement confine membership to countries, the euro area as such is not able to appoint a Governor or appoint or elect Executive Directors in the IMF. In December 1998, the ECB was granted observer status at selected Executive Board meetings."

There are possibly other sources to consider, such as CIA factbook or World bank.

Mercosur, EAEU, GCC, SICA, Caricom and CEDEAO also sign agreements with other countries or blocs. Odemirense (talk) 10:41, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Possible, but EU is a sixty years old bloc which is quite notable to have a Economy of the European Union page, and to compare itself with other players such as the USA or China. Of course, saying so does not remove anything to Mercosur, EAEU, GCC, SICA, Caricom and CEDEAO. Anyway, if the topic is banned on this page, might be a new page should be created with something such as list of economic zones by GDP (nominal), including more economic zones. But for that, reliable sources (such as IMF or Worldbank with data for those economies should be available.

All that I am saying is if IMF does not release EU numbers (or any other economic organization or grouping) numbers then those numbers should not be included in the list which is attributed to the IMF. If other sources like the World Bank and CIA Factbook do then we need to have a discussion whether they belong in the same list or a different list. Adamgerber80 (talk) 04:01, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

The EU is usually recognized as an international actor, for instance by WTO: [1] & [2] and so by members of the WTO. As a matter of fact, the WTO provides EU-28 GDP.

Wikipedia is not assumed to confuse the reader by hiding such a notable fact.

It is also interesting to note that for trade, the WTO provide two rankings: one with the EU as one, and one counting the EU as 28 states.

Now the IMF is the IMF. It would not be illogical that the EU appears in the IMF list if it also appears in other lists. Where you are right, is that no number should not be included in the list if they are not released.

Also, when EU number does appear, they should have distinctive sign which let the reader easily understand that this is is a specific data. Distinctive sign could be a gray background color, small letters, parenthesis, italics, etc. such as in the hereafter example.

(Also, note that the article table might miss the nts /ntsh tag which might help to sorting by GDP column, as provided in the example bellow)

Per the International Monetary Fund (2018)

Rank Country GDP (US$MM)   World 79,865,481 1 United States 20,412,870 — cf n (European Union) (trade bloc) 19,669,743 (non IMF source) see note Not released by IMF 19,669,743 2 China 14,092,514 3 Japan 5,167,051 4 Germany 4,211,635 5 United Kingdom 2,936,286 6 France 2,925,096 I assume it might be a way to provide data, making clear for the reader both the nature of the EU, and the specific source of the data (if/when needed) Rename: List of economies by GDP (nominal) Numerous comments claim the EU is not a country. There might be reason to consider so, but in the same time it looks like it makes sense to include the EU in some way, as the big number of countries makes difficult to have an overview on this topic. For this reason I suggest to rename the article as List of economies by GDP (nominal). With such a title, we could keep the useless list of countries, but we could also add more pertinent information. Limiting the scope to countries ranking only looks like an obsolete POV. This is not only for the EU: All regions/subregions should be listed. As regions are less numerous than countries, it would help make a graph with the full picture. Sources for regions and subregions are hereafter: https://unstats.un.org/unsd/snaama/dnlList.asp — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.193.103.134 (talk) 19:39, 3 June 2018 (UTC) The problem is the EU acts as a single economy, those others do not. Those others are trade pacts, not integrated economies like the EU. And this page compares distinct economies. The EU, alone from those other regions, is often treated as a distinct economy by the sources. Which is why Trump gets so frustrated in his goals to do bilateral deals - he can't deal with, say, France or Germany in a trade agreement, he has to deal with the EU and its over-arching agencies. It's also why the EU has such weight when it comes to regulation - its recent internet privacy law has enormous impact because of the size of its economy - other trade pacts don't have a mechanism to enact such laws. Nafta, for example, has no legislative body to enact pact-wide laws. Canada Jack (talk) 19:11, 5 June 2018 (UTC) Actually wkipedia has a List of sovereign states in Europe by GDP (nominal) which deal with socalled sovereign states and a List of metropolitan areas in the European Union by GDP which deals with so called metropolitan areas. So, why do we say List of countries by GDP (nominal) and not something more genric, such as List of economies by GDP (nominal)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.67.188.57 (talk) 21:30, 5 June 2018 (UTC) The UN link provided above could be displayed this way, showing Oceania and Africa which did not appear in previous graphs: GDP nominal according to the UN by United Nations geoscheme Source: UN I prefer getting rid of EU. EU is the problem here. EU is polluting this article and causing disputes.138.75.28.131 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:56, 9 June 2018 (UTC) Why is 2017 official figues removed and replaced by make believe figures? Can we have proper real data based on actual official stats and not estimates? Now, there is no data for 2017 GDP of countries, we only have these estimates of 2018. This is a recurring problem. Please revert back to proper data. If you want estimates, start a new wiki page on that. I want this page to be reserved for actual factual stats. This is stupid, We have 2016 official figures but no 2017 official figues. For those people who are after 2017 figures, how?138.75.28.131 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:01, 9 June 2018 (UTC) Yes I agree, can someone please post back the 2017 figures? 2018 not official obviously.Lneal001 (talk) 14:41, 10 June 2018 (UTC)