User talk:Klymen

Welcome

Hello, Klymen, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! — Kbh3^rdtalk 14:55, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Persian/Iran articles

Welcome new user, but please note that the Persian and Iran articles have already had considerable discussion about organization, and the contentious modern history does not belong in the ancient history articles. --William Allen Simpson 18:33, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Hello!

Hello,

My name is Aytakin and I have seen the great contributions you have made to articles about of Iran and that is why I am contacting you today. I am wroking on a website (http://www.iranclub.ca] about Iran which will have everything from editorials and deep information on history to current soccer scores and live TV and our own 24/7 radio! I am also working on a wiki[1] for information on everything relating to Iran. I am very much in need of some extra people to help me on this project. If you are intrested please reply, Thank you.

By the way, I wasn't sure if you were Iranian or not, since you didn't mention on your user page. so I decided to write in English. sorry. --(Aytakin) | Talk 17:21, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikiproject Iran

Please keep an eye on ths Open Tasks template, and make use of it. deeptrivia (talk) 03:34, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Top priorities	Editing / formatting	Missing articles	Expansion
Culture of Iran It is so underwhelming and badly written, there needs to be massive improvements on the article Articles about the battles of Cyrus the Great need Reference improvements Getting Iran featured. Complete Portal:Iran (see French model fr:Portail:Iran) Cyrus cylinder Cyrus the Great Persianization Sasanian Empire Safavids Persian Gulf Persian people Iranian Revolution List of the localities around Tehran Constitution of Islamic Republic of Iran History of Baku Nasreddin History of money, lacks Persians' role. Perfume, lacks Persians' role, and has lots of false info. Persian Armenia, quite far from facts about Sassanids. Parthia gathering more information and adding more footnotes and citations. Cyropaedia (see the corresponding talk page Talk:Cyropaedia#Some suggestions for improvement for remarks) Iraqi people, lacks information on Iranian influence on Iraqi society throughout history. Help expand Middle East economic integration Azerbaijanis, I've cleared up some of the article, just need more help and watching of page. The page has a clear pan-Turkish bias. Origin of the Azerbaijanis, the page also suffers from clear pan-Turkish bias. Mirza Fatali Akhundov, Iranian Ultra-Nationalist, but people are changing the article and his identity. Ethnicities in Iran, Vandalized occasionally, needs protection.	History of Iran Islamic conquest of Persia History of Khuzestan History of Kuwait Modern and Contemporary Art in Iran Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri Occupation of Khuzestan by Muslims Iranian Turks Azaris Music of Azarbaijan History of Azarbaijan Science in Iran Culture of Azarbaijan Azari literature List of Azaris List of islands of Iran Nasreddin Mount Khajeh Abolhassan Khan Sadighi Afshin (Persian General) Oshrusana Christianity in Iran Iran-Iraq War	See also: Persian articles needing translating Saravan massacre Amards civilization Anjoman e Payvand Arsakia BarroBarrout Battle of Pasargadae Beshdezik Ebrahim Sadri Galeh Morghi Ghezel Ozan River Gol Gohar Iron Ore Company Gombroon pottery, Gombroon ceramics House of Dahae House of Parni House of Sohae Iran–United States proxy conflict Iryston Jalil Ketabi Khorasani Tati language Literacy Movement Organization Mahmoud Shahbazi Manzarieh Market Development Fund Mirza Ahmad Aminzadeh Mohsen Zanjani Phraaspa Razi Institute for Serums and Vaccines Restart movement Seyed Reza Akhavi Wars of Cyrus the Great Hosein Ibn Mosa Alkazem Bibi Shatitah of Neyshabur Draft:Khayyam Planetarium Bagh-e meli of Neyshabur Khoshk River (Shiraz)	A Aratta Afsharid dynasty Arg-é Bukhara B Baharestan Carpet C Campaign Against Sanctions and Military Intervention in Iran - needs more third party reliable sources - threatened with non-notability and possible deletion process Culture of Iran Cinema of Iran D Deldadeh E Education in Iran Eagle (heraldry) G Geography of Iran (faune and flora) Gur-e-Dokhtar I Iranian cuisine Iranian diaspora Iranians in Germany Iranian musical instruments Iranian philosophy Iranian pottery Irrigation in Iran J Jiroft Kingdom Judeo-Shirazi L List of Iranian titles and ranks Luristan civilization M Mahmoud Khayami P Persianate Persianization Persian mythology T Timeline of Tehran history V Varzesh-e Pahlavani W Wildlife of Iran Z Zabulistan Zafar-Nameh
Merges	Discussions	Maps, Pictures, Timelines, etc.	Vandalism
Iranian folklore Defense industry of Iran Shahab-3 Iran–United States relations after 1979 Religious minorities in Iran	A Talk:Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi Talk:Arabs of Khuzestan Talk:Azaris B Talk:Bavi County H Talk:History of Azarbaijan I Talk:Iranian peoples O Talk:Ossetic language P Talk:Persian Gulf Talk:Persian Jews Talk:Persian people S Talk:Safavids	Greater Iran Azaris	Battle of Chaldiran Ruhollah Khomeini Reading_Lolita_in_Tehran Khouzestan Khorramshahr Iranian military industry Nuclear program of Iran Mir-Hossein Mousavi Green Movement Political parties in Iran Iranian Space Agency Azerbaijanis

Articles to watch for non-NPOV edits:

• Battle of Chaldiran
• Nuclear program of Iran
• Iran and weapons of mass destruction
• Azarbaijan
• Azerbaijan
• Azerbaijani people
• History of Azerbaijan
• Origin of the Azerbaijanis
• Ossetia / Northern Ossetia / South Ossetia
• Abu Musa
• Greater and Lesser Tunbs
• Persian Gulf
• Arab states of the Persian Gulf
• Iran-Iraq War
• Ahvaz
• Khorramshahr
• Category:Iranian_Plateau
• History of Iran
• Iranian Plateau
• Khomeini
• Category:Divided_regions
• Mutaween
• Opposition to military action against Iran
• Timeline of Iranian revolution

Iranian Azerbaijan

Hi there,

I just wanted to let you know that user, khoikhoi (MOD) keeps including the very offensive term, "south azerbaijan" on the Iranian Azerbaijan page. We should not let him post this propoganda and false information. That term has no place in an encycolpedia article. It is not relevent to the content. What a few seperatists call that region should not be shown here. If we dont stop this, people will start including the "a#abian gulf" as an alternate name on the Persian gulf page.

KhodahafesDariush4444 04:21, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Condi Rice & Iranian Student Rumour

Dear Klyman: I just wanted to point out that there is no justification under Wikipedia policy to permit unverifiable rumour to be placed in an encyclopedia. The Iranian student rumour has been placed several times in the Condi Rice article. Please refrain from placing the rumour in the article again. It violates the following Wikipedia policy: Wikipedia:Verifiability. Thank you. --70.114.205.215 18:40, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Parsis

Do you know what a Parsi is? The term "Parsi" may mean "Persian" but what it "signifies" has been in India way too long to be Persian anymore. Parsis, the Indian Zoroastrian community (excluding Iranis) do not speak Persian, do not dress or eat like Persians or follow Persian cultural customs other than Zoroastrianism. They have become thoroughly Indianized in the past 1300 years they have been in the subcontinent. Also, genetic studies show that their entire mitochondrial base is South Asian, showing great initial intermarriage with Indians prior to adopting endogamy. See Parsi article for details. Parsis generally see themselves as Indians, but are proud of their ancient Persian origins. When someone is called Persian in the modern sense, they mean explicitly "Iranian" as from Iran. A modern Iranian person overall. Parsis are no longer Iranians as they have lived and evolved their separate identity from Iranians and they no longer are completely genetically identical to Iranians, as genetics show. Freddie Mercury, as a Parsi, is also an Indian. Apart from a few years in Zanzibar (and among the South Asian community as well, huge South Asian population in East Africa then) he grew up in India. "Bulsara" is also an Indian surname, not a Persian name. Freddie Mercury's offical authoritative biography by Lesley Ann Jones states him as Indian Parsi, as does his birth certificate (albeit in those days British Indian). He may have sometimes called himself "Persian" as a sale tactic to make himself more glamorous to his fans. A documentary on him "Freddie Mercury: Untold Story" makes this clear. Anyway, regardless of what he may have thought of himself, this is an encyclopedic article, not a opinion article/profile. The fact is, like it or not, he was an Indian. And you know, it really doesnt matter because he personally saw himself more as British than anything else. We should remember him for what he was, a damn great singer, not for his ethnicity. But if we should start calling him Persian/Iranian, we should do the same for other Parsis as well. (ie: Zubin Mehta, Bapsi Sidhwa, Jamsheed Marker (from my native Pakistan) or J.R.D. Tata.) Hope what I said makes sense. Take care! [[Afghan Historian 21:05, 22 July 2006 (UTC)]]. ps: If you want some verification of Parsis idea of themselves, ask User: Sohrab Irani. He happens to be a Parsi.

freddie

his "persian" origins are explained in "parsi"! when people see "parsi", they know this is indian of persian descent. adding "persian" makes hims sound like a modern iranian! do we call Tajiks "persian"? While they may be, they are not called iranians. Sohrab Irani 14:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

also, you make mistake of saying his family considered themselves "persian". if you see interviews, (what few they gave) you'll see that they see themselves as indians. they dont change freddie's persian legacy because freddie kept india and his indian origin private. he wanted them to keep this privacy. they dont push for the change of the belief that much. and it wasnt really that important to him. he was trying keep some truth about his background to the public, so he disguised "parsi" with "persian". Sohrab Irani 14:37, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

actually this is what brian may said in an interview. and freddie's funeral was indian more than persian as there was no tower of silence but a cremation. he was cremated via zoroastrian rites. cremation's very indian. your logic of persian funeral would apply to other parsis as well like jrd tata and dadabhai naoroji who had towes of silence. parsis are proud of their persian past but when it comes between india and iran, they see themselves as indian. Sohrab Irani 17:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

ps: here's a cite about keeping his roots a secret www.queenonline.com/cuttings.htm Also, for more proof, look at the Sunday London Times Article cited in this wikipedia article on freddie where he is called "Star of India". btw, i added the persian claim to the Indian rock star section. Sohrab Irani 17:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Freddie Mercury

Hi Klymen, unfortunately I'm going on wikibreak right now, so I have no time to examine the situation, but I can tell you what should be done:

• If the article is getting vandalized, it could be temporarily protected or semi-protected, and the vandals should be blocked after they have been properly warned. This can be done by any administrator, so feel free to contact one of them.
• If this is a content dispute instead of vandalism, and you need someone to mediate between you and another editor (or a group of other editors), please consider seeking the help of a mediator (or informal mediator). He/she will certainly do this kind of thing better than me ;)

Mushroom (Talk) 12:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

about scanning books

about scanning books to prove he's persian, most books, (including lesley jones offical bio) call him parsi indian. also, it's not fact, as his dna's partly indian and he doesn't even know the language! your sources are from music fan club editors (jacky smith is the head of the queen fan club) and vhi, whereas mine are offical biographic material provided by the family. he has persian descent of course, but "parsi" signifies that fact. and what about other parsis? why cant we call them persian? but to be neutral, we merged them to "first indian and persian rock star". user mandarvich felt it was the best way. Sohrab Irani 16:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Baron Cohen

What is a fact? That his mother has Iranian ancestry? Far from it. It's almost certainly wrong. It started on Wikipedia and spread, as these things do, all over. It's been on Wikipedia for almost half a year. Before September you couldn't find it anywhere else, online or off. Now, of course, thanks to us, it's everywhere. It's the ultimate Wikipedia victory when we create our own source. I blame myself. I am an idiot for not removing it in August when I should have. If I did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. So, that's a mistake I won't make again, that's for sure. Now everyone who wants to say his mother is Iranian has a "source"! (which, curiously, used the exact same wording as our Wikipedia entry did back in the day). Anyway, see the long discussion at Talk:Sacha Baron Cohen, I'm certainly not the only one who doesn't want information that's almost certainly false and totally unconfirmed (i.e. there has never been an interview or anything where Baron Cohen actually said it himself, nor of course, will there ever be). I hope you remove it, because I certainly plan to as soon as my 3RR up. This whole affair started with Wikipedia and I am really working to end it here as well. Mad Jack 05:30, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

The strongest evidence to me was this guy who claims to be related to him and gave a full detailed geneaology of his mother (and says she is of German Jewish ancestry). Most of his posts are on Talk:Sacha Baron Cohen or over on my talk page (of course that's not a reliable source for an article, but...). He's also Israeli and he says no one in Israel knows anything about Baron Cohen's ancestry. I know there are sources dating from the past few weeks - mostly reviews and the like - that mention the Iranian stuff, but we've got to give ourselves credit for that one. If there are really sources pre-dating Wikipedia (i.e. from before July or August of this year) I will be really pleasantly surprised. Also, his mother's maiden name is apparently Weisser, which of course isn't Iranian..... So I dunno. Mad Jack 05:49, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Same problem with the sources you just cited. The first is the Guardian article from September of this year which uses the exact same language as our very own Wikipedia article did and is clearly a paraphrase (see discussion about that on Talk:Sacha Baron Cohen). The next is Yahoo Movies, which credits no author and is not a reliable source in general. The next is an article from one week ago. All are post-Wikipedia and none were done with Baron Cohen's personal involvement so it's clear the information is not coming directly from him. Mad Jack 05:52, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, like I said before, anything that predates Wikipedia could be reliable. Basically anything before July of this year. Why on earth would Yahoo Movies be a reliable source? It's exactly like NNDB, the IMDB, or Wikipedia. A gigantic collection of biographies with no credited authors and no cited sources. Anything without a credited author fails WP:RS. I could start my own site, call it the "FDHB.com" and put in a biography of every famous person ever. Would that make me a reliable source? As for the Guardian, see the discussion at Talk:Sacha Baron Cohen. I'm not the only person who realizes they obviously used Wikipedia because their wording is almost exactly like ours was at that time. I'm aware there's a multitude of sources that's sprung up in exactly the last month that says his mother is of Iranian origin, just as I'm aware that if I had deleted that bit of info in August, there wouldn't be a single such source. You know how you do or don't do something, and then months later you regret it and wish you could do it over again? That's exactly how I feel about that. Like I said above, Wikipedia created this and now we can rejoice that it's come full circle, I guess. Now, you told me that it's "well known in Israel" and that you would find sources, presumably ones predating roughly summer 2006, that say his mother is of Iranian origin. Mad Jack 06:04, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

You're going to contact Kristy Scott? Excellent! Thank you very much. However, you should ask her what her source was if she doesn't say Wikipedia or denies it (which I can plausibly see her doing). You'd be surprised how many news and media sources take our information nowadays, whether they explicitly acknowledge it or not. That's why it's important to remove uncited info as soon as possible. Thanks again, Mad Jack 06:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

BTW, as far as I can tell, that Guardian article in September was the very first to mention Persian (I googled it in August and found nothing except us at the time). Mad Jack 06:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not using the guy with the German info as a source (nor did I plan to include his info in the article), but I do believe he is right. As for Yahoo, again, any website that includes biographies of hundreds and thousands of people and credits no authors or sources is not reliable, whether it has "Yahoo" in the name or not. The Guardian is, of course, a reliable source, which is exactly my problem in this case. :-) Mad Jack 06:27, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Please look at the conversation on Jack's user page User_talk:Jack_O'Lantern#Sasha_Baron_Cohen- the info was added back on April 15 by a vandal so it's unlikely to be true. Arniep 23:33, 11 November 2006 (UTC)