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:{{Not done}}. This is getting silly. –[[User:Deacon Vorbis|Deacon Vorbis]] ([[User Talk:Deacon Vorbis|carbon]] • [[Special:Contributions/Deacon Vorbis|videos]]) 15:38, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
:{{Not done}}. This is getting silly. –[[User:Deacon Vorbis|Deacon Vorbis]] ([[User Talk:Deacon Vorbis|carbon]] • [[Special:Contributions/Deacon Vorbis|videos]]) 15:38, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
::Silly? There are three sources provided. [[Special:Contributions/216.163.247.4|216.163.247.4]] ([[User talk:216.163.247.4|talk]]) 15:47, 7 November 2019 (UTC)


{{talkref}}
{{talkref}}

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Jade Goody?

Jade Goody also died at 27 - arguably the most successful / famous person to go on Big Brother (or any reality show) and be 'famous for being famous'. Her life and death were constantly reported in the tabloids, even after she passed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Goody — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.29.193.47 (talk) 10:27, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the 27 Club, and those identified with it. Has Goody been so? Do you have a cite? --Escape Orbit (Talk) 17:06, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Right Here, if someone wants to update - Is Jade Goody the latest victim of Club 27? --173.167.227.133 (talk) 22:46, 29 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2018

I would like to add to the section regarding 27 Club references in music the following:

In the song This Is It by the Flatbush Zombies rapper Meechy Darko references the 27 Club in the line "27 Club, here I come" while reflecting on his mortality and talking about the ways he believes he will likely die. TheBeef422 (talk) 04:13, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. feminist (talk) 13:22, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria for inclusion in the list

What are the criteria for inclusion in the list of "members" of the 27 Club? There have been several previous discussions about this -- they can be found in the archived talk pages -- and the consensus was that a musician or other person does not have to be notable, in the Wikipedia sense, to be listed here. But they do have to be specifically referred to in a third-party reference as a member of the 27 Club. I would favor a more inclusive approach, but that's what most editors preferred. — Mudwater (Talk) 12:10, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Besides, the Wikipedia definition of "notable" defines who qualifies to have an article on them. It should not be used as a criteria for who can be mentioned within an article. We also shouldn't use having an article within the English language Wikipedia as the sole criteria, a person can be notable outside of the anglosphere. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 21:58, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the most extensive discussion of this question can be found at Talk:27 Club/Archive 4#RfC: Should there be two lists of musicians or one, and who should be included?. (That's an archived discussion, so please add any new comments here and not there.) — Mudwater (Talk) 00:06, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2018

Remove Freaky Tah from list, as he was 26 when he was murdered. Theblackestmoo (talk) 14:29, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done - according to his obit here he was 27 - Arjayay (talk) 15
59, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Machine Gun Kelly has a song called 27 off his album Bloom

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_(Machine_Gun_Kelly_album) ,its the last song on the albumn — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:14D:8201:D565:5BA:DAFF:5FF7:463D (talk) 15:10, 28 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nika Turbina

Please insert the lovely poet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_Turbina — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.36.88.210 (talk) 11:22, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 31 March 2018

Addition of Simon Carpentier, singer and cofounding member of French pop duet Her, died at age 27 on 13th August 2017 https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/her-interview-french-band-victor-solf-album-stream-simon-carpentier-a8281491.html https://sivertimes.com/who-is-simon-carpentier-a-friend-of-louane-and-the-lead-singer-of-the-group-her-death-from-cancer-at-the-age-of-27-gala/64239 Lenyclarke (talk) 12:24, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:53, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Avicii

Granted he was 28, close enough for a mention ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:105A:700:483B:844:7B5D:4E40 (talk) 18:19, 20 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Aaron Hernandez?

It's been over a year. He was more infamous than famous, but he was known and died at 27. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kanousei24 (talk • contribs) 01:37, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the people on the list are more infamous than famous, but he was already very famous before he killed himself at 27 he was on his way to being a Hall Of Fame Tight End.2601:980:4200:43A0:846C:1E6:8575:A257 (talk) 03:34, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Because the 27 Club only applies to musicians and actors, athletes like Aaron Hernandez are not included. -Kevinmuniz115 (talk) 16:25, 25 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong the 27 Club is supposed to apply to any famous celebrity that dies commits suicide or is killed at 27, the original ones and ones who are most associated with the Club just so happen to be musicians and actors. People do count athletes/other celebrities from different careers and famous people in general, if someone like Princess Diana for instance had died at 27 they would be included.2601:980:4200:43A0:846C:1E6:8575:A257 (talk) 03:34, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thuy Trang edit request on 7 July 2018

Please add the name "Thuy Trang" to the list of 27 club members. She was born 17 Dec, 1973. Died 3 Sept, 2001. Cause of death: car accident. Her claim to fame was playing the role of the yellow ranger in the original "Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers" TV series. She lived 27 years and 270 days

Source links:

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0870962/bio https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/6402207/thuy-trang MedievalLoserCatholicHobo (talk) 18:16, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. IMDB is not a reliable source. — LeoFrank  Talk 06:13, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References in music

Frank Ocean sings in "Nights" the line "no white lighters til I fuck my 28th up" There is a song from Russian music group Louna - Forcing the Skies, which is fully dedicated to the 27 Club.

Semi-protected edit request on 7 September 2018

In my opinion, in the 27club only rock musicians should remain, and similar genres are not trapper rappers and other artists 193.246.191.123 (talk) 12:58, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia doesn't base its articles on your opinions. The 27 Club is generally accepted to be any popular musician/actor who died at 27, and is not limited to just rock musicians. NiciVampireHeart 09:11, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]


No athletes and non-musicians

I notice there's been non musicians like Aaron Hernandez, other NFL football players and actor, Jonathan Brandis in this list. Its for musicans only.

The list is for whoever reliable sources say is in the "27 Club". --Escape Orbit (Talk) 19:07, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm aware this is a months old discussion, but is "CelebNSports247" really a reliable source? Spengouli (talk) 01:44, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Gilley?

Paul Gilley has died aged 27. he worked the Lyricist and songwriter. 

Ryan Pikachu (talk) 21:59, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

music references part

I think that the song "Nights" by Frank Ocean should be added to the music references because there's a line where he says "no white lighters 'till I fuck my 28th up." and it's a reference to the 27 club as a few of the people in the 27 club died with a whiter lighter in their possession. ~cielo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.214.39.86 (talk) 12:22, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately this is just your interpretation of what the lyric means. You need a cite that says this. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 18:00, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Musicians

Why are football players being listed as part of the 27 club? The 27 club is for musicians (and artists/actors), not athletes. Sharksrule567 (talk) 23:27, 22 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

and also including non musicians (even if artists/actors), still expands the 27 club past what it actually is. Sharksrule567 (talk) 23:29, 22 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2019

[Denisa Manelista] G3ny17 (talk) 14:39, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 17:57, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2019

Pat Tillamn should be added to this page. He was 27 when he died. He was a famous athlete 2601:601:CD00:1B03:8834:DC89:AC37:DEB9 (talk) 22:57, 13 March 2019 (UTC) 2601:601:CD00:1B03:8834:DC89:AC37:DEB9 (talk) 22:57, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DannyS712 (talk) 23:41, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tillman and Reggie Lewis are included in this article (along with a number of already listed "members"). Not sure it's a RS as envisaged in the consensus, though. https://www.thewrap.com/27-club-stars-died-age-jimi-hendrix-amy-winehouse-anton-yelchin-kurt-cobain/ WeepingAngel63 (talk) 11:25, 2 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Juice WRLD

"What's the 27 Clu-u-u-b? We ain't makin' it past 21" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:6000:1114:846B:CA3:4254:69BA:2438 (talk) 03:54, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pigpen

Rod “Pigpen” McKernen of the Grateful Dead also passed away at age 27

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_%22Pigpen%22_McKernan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.248.250.66 (talk) 01:20, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. He's listed in the table. — Mudwater (Talk) 22:04, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Age of 27" definition

If I understand correctly, members of this club celebrated their 27th birthday, but didn't live to the 28th? BasileusAutokratorPL (talk) 16:08, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Correct. That is, they died when they were 27 years old. "P.S." Based on previous discussions here, for a person to be listed in the article, there must be a reasonable third-party reference saying that they were a member of the 27 Club. — Mudwater (Talk) 22:06, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jonathan Brandis

Actor in The Neverending Story II and 1990's TV version of It. Born in april 13 1976 and died november 12 2003 (suicide). 189.9.32.2 (talk) 12:38, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mac Miller

Rapper Mac Miller died 3 months short of 27, and often sung about "joining the 27 club." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:6000:120C:304:2EB2:80E8:B699:4DD2 (talk) 22:33, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thuy Trang

Thuy Trang should be part of the notables who died at the age of 27 since she died at the age of 27. Born: December 14, 1973, Died: September 3, 2001. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A000:73CF:600:80F7:26C:7CCB:2FD (talk) 23:12, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tyler Skaggs

Baseball pitcher Tyler Skaggs died at the age of 27 on July 1, 2019.

Name Date of birth Date of death Official cause of death Fame Age References
Tyler Skaggs July 13, 1991 July 1, 2019 Undetermined[1] American baseball player 27 years, 353 days [2]

References

  1. ^ Wilson, Jeff. "Death of Angels pitcher Tyler Skaggs, 27, forces cancellation of Rangers game Monday". Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Retrieved July 1, 2019.
  2. ^ Carroll, Charolette (July 1, 2019). "Angels Pitcher Tyler Skaggs Dies at Age 27". Sports Illustrated. Retrieved July 1, 2019.

J4lambert (talk) 18:55, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@J4lambert: There's no need to repeat the whole table here on the talk page. It's redundant and it takes up too much space. So, I've taken the liberty of editing your post, by removing all the rows except for the one you're suggesting be added. I also threw in a {{Reflist-talk}} for formatting purposes. — Mudwater (Talk) 23:26, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
J4lambert, as I said on Talk:Tyler Skaggs, there would need to be references connecting him to the 27 club. There are not. Not everyone who dies at 27 should be added here, especially if they are not musicians. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:22, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Another Song Reference

Kissin Dynamite's song called "Club 27" references the 27 Club aswell. Requesting for it to be added to the list.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opncaV_J2Fg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.0.75.87 (talk) 09:40, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Louie Spicolli and Thuy Trang

I noticed you have a couple of athletes and actors on there so how come Louie Spicolli wasn't mentioned? He was a wrestler who was apart of WWE, ECW, and WCW. He died 4 days after his 27th birthday from a drug overdose and an enlarged heart. I also see that Thuy Trang was brought up a couple times in here so why wasn't she added? We all knew her as the yellow ranger from Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. She was born in December 14 1973 and died in car accident on September 3 2001 at age 27 and it was 3 months and 11 days before her 28th birthday.

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2019

Please add to the list "Emilia Denisa Raducu", a Romanian artist (musician) who died in 2017 at the age of 27 after losing a long battle with liver cirrhosis. It's a shame that she's not in there.

Thank you. Konagoo (talk) 14:25, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This appears to be a reference that identifies Denisa as a member of the 27 Club. — Mudwater (Talk) 15:02, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done since I removed the list. See below for more detail. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 00:25, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Removed list

I have WP:BOLDly removed the list of people from this article per WP:IINFO. It's fine to document this as a subject itself, but inclusion in the list is completely arbitrary as it relies on biasing from sources that are prone to think this is a worthy statistic. In other words, there's no real inclusion criterion except that someone somewhere mentioned this along with their age of death. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 00:30, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's WP:BOLD, all right, since the list has been there for quite a long time. So now I'll put it back, and we can talk about it, per WP:BRD. Please take a look at the archived discussion at Talk:27 Club/Archive 4#RfC: Should there be two lists of musicians or one, and who should be included?, where it was decided to have the one list, and include popular musicians, and others too, who were mentioned as members of the 27 Club in one of those sources that you're referring to. (I advocated for more inclusive criteria at that time, but could not persuade a majority of my fellow editors.) I think this list is of value, and that readers interested in this subject will want to see it. And that since this is a pop cultural phenomenon, and not a rigorous scientific subject, we're better off with the list. As always, other editors are encouraged to explain their own opinions. P.S. The list does not fall under WP:IINFO, as far as I can see. — Mudwater (Talk) 03:15, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The main problem is that this is pure trivia. Okay, so there's this persistent notion in the media that 27 is some magical age for musicians (or anyone else now, apparently) to die, even though studies have failed to bear this out. This much in itself is notable and talked about in the article, and that's fine. However, a list of everyone famous who's ever died at 27 is not appropriate or of encyclopedic value. Many of the sources used are garbage, including the one you mentioned in the edit request immediately above. And the thing is, every source is garbage; there is no measure of reliability with respect to inclusion in the club. Anyone can mutter the incantation "27 club" alongside a person who died at 27 and that seems to automatically make them a member. If we're writing about a music topic, an article from Rolling Stone should be more reliable than a post to Billy Bob's Blog, but here, they'd be about equal.
The RfC you linked is flawed because it presented a false dilemma – one list or two lists, when in fact, no list at all would have been a much better option. WP:IINFO very much applies here; writing about the claim of 27 or the idea of a 27 club is fine, but including a list of everyone anyone or their neighbor has ever claimed to be a member of it is not. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 03:54, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Any list of names should have each entry strongly supported by reliable sources. One mention in one publication is not enough. We should be telling the reader only the people who are widely described as members of the 27 Club. I propose an inclusion criteria of two mainstream sources for each entry. Such an inclusion criteria will greatly prune the list. Binksternet (talk) 04:07, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Since we're having a new discussion about the list, I'll advocate for what I really think, and stop supporting the previous consensus. The 27 Club is the pop cultural and unscientific idea that many well-known popular musicians have died at the age of 27. By definition any well-known popular musician who died at the age of 27 is a "member" of the club. To explicate this for our readers, we should list those people in the article. There's no need to find any references at all that associate each individual member with the 27 Club, they're "in" by definition. We should limit the list to people who have their own Wikipedia article -- or possibly also include people who were in a band that has its own Wikipedia article -- because that's a reasonable way to determine whether or not they were well-known. Only popular musicians should be included. I believe this is the best approach for this article, and one that would be appreciated by both readers and editors. "P.S." This would not be "original research". We would not be determining who the members of the club are. That's determined by the concept of the 27 Club itself. — Mudwater (Talk) 10:49, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Then we don't need the list at all; just a category of musicians who died when they were 27. Could be automatically generated, I guess. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇 14:49, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
But that's your definition, not the definition used by many sources. Other sources have started mentioning the 27 Club in relation to more than just musicians. Actors, Athletes, Celebrities of one sort or another. So if we're to remove the need for sources on the list, Wikipedia editors should also not act as gatekeepers on the list. Everyone notable who dies at 27 becomes a member. And at that point, what does club membership even mean any more? And what distinguishes it from The 28 Club? The 21 Club? The 77 Club? Part of what made the notion catch on was the idea that some musicians, in some way, lived life fast and burned out at a young age. Does this apply to Athletes? Writers? Reality TV Contestants?
If we're to do away for the need of cites making actual reference to the club in relation to someone, then entire idea just falls apart and becomes ridiculous. We may as well just have a series of categories. [[Category:Deaths aged 27]], [[Category:Deaths aged 28]], [[Category:Deaths aged 29]] .. ..
That's not to say sources are a perfect reflection of the idea. But like with any other Wikipedia article, they are all we've got and should be using.
But personally, I'd be fine being rid of the list entirely. List the people who brought about the idea originally (Hendrix, Joplin etc) and leave it there. Readers don't need any further examples to understand the concept, and the list is just list crud. And the bigger it gets, the cruddier it gets. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 16:23, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The generally accepted concept of the 27 Club includes only popular musicians. First there was Brian Jones, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, and Jim Morrison. After that people started making more inclusive lists, of musicians that is. Later, the popularity of the idea increased, after the untimely passings of Kurt Cobain and Amy Winehouse. It would serve our readers best if the article included a list, in table form, of all well-known popular musicians who died at age 27, and no one else. That's who the "members" of the Club are, according to most people. Then our happy and well-informed readers can continue to refer to the table to find valuable information about short-lived musical luminaries such as Robert Johnson, Alan "Blind Owl" Wilson, Ron "Pigpen" McKernan, Pete Ham, Kristen Pfaff, and the others, and click through to their individual Wikipedia articles. — Mudwater (Talk) 22:53, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"generally accepted", "according to most people" - You need to support these statements from reliable sources. This may have been how it started out, but sources now suggest that people are happy to include non-musicians. We don't get to decide they don't count. We reflect what the sources say. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 11:16, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Mudwater, your suggestion is a violation of WP:No original research, a hard policy that doesn't have any wiggle room. We can't simply decide that a musician who died at 27 is a member of the 27 Club. Rather, the 27 Club is a cultural concept, based on impressions of the media rather than on hard facts. If the media lists a musician as a member, fine. If the media does not list a musician as a member, we cannot violate NOR by entering their name.
My suggestion is that we only list musicians that are widely described as being a member of the 27 Club. At the very least, each entry should be supported by two citations to reliable sources. Binksternet (talk) 00:06, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi Protected Edit request 11 September 2019

Found this page on cleanup. Brian Jones cause of death 'misadventure' needs a working footnote. If someone would add it, I found an article from 1969 which is:

cite news | url=https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2011/jul/08/archive-brian-jones-death-1969 | title=Jones drowned while 'drunk and drugged' | work= The Guardian | location=London | date=1969 July 8 | accessdate=2019-09-11 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.217.182.134 (talk) 07:59, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Done — Mudwater (Talk) 18:29, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Referenced in music

The 27 club is also referenced by experimental rapper JPEGMAFIA on a song named "The 27 Club" off of the album Black Ben Carson TygotheGreen (talk) 16:59, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. It's not clear what changes you want to make. Please make a precise request. If you want to add this information, you'd also need to provide a reliable source, and even then, this just seems like yet more trivia. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 17:32, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 27 September 2019

a person is missing from the 27 club named Dakota Karascewski TheScienceGuy01 (talk) 16:06, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. aboideautalk 16:07, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

To be added

Please add Michael_Strunge lovable Danish poet, suicided not yet 28 y.o. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.38.6.221 (talk) 23:19, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

===== Music =====

  • In Ed Sheeran's track [The Man], Sheeran writes, "And I'd be writing my will before I'm 27, I'll die from a thrill / Go down in history as just a wasted talent,".

[1]

References

  1. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_ Man_(Ed_Sheeran_song)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 November 2019

Name Date of birth Date of death Official cause of death Fame Age References
Joseph Merrick August 5, 1862 April 11, 1890 Asphyxia, caused by the weight of his head as he lay down English man with severe deformities, often called the Elephant Man 27 years, 249 days [1][2][3]

References 216.163.247.2 (talk) 17:10, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. This is getting silly. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 15:38, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Silly? There are three sources provided. 216.163.247.4 (talk) 15:47, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Muertos a los 27: Las 30 celebridades integrantes del fatídico Club de los 27". Cinco Noticias. Retrieved 6 November 2019.
  2. ^ Novak, Johnny. "LESSER KNOWN MEMBERS OF THE 27 CLUB". Retrieved 6 November 2019.
  3. ^ "Dying to get in: The 27 Club through history". DailyCare. Retrieved 6 November 2019.
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