Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Plants

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WikiProject Plants

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Template:GRIN fixes requested

Please see these three requests at Template talk:GRIN. --CiaPan (talk) 14:41, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

One request – my own – handled by myself, which probably resolved the other one, too. One in still waiting:

GRIN is not a grin.

CiaPan (talk) 07:42, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

 Done Thank you, Hike395. --CiaPan (talk) 07:50, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Grass authorities

What authority are we using for grasses? I'm working on creating pages for all of the Boutelouas, and as with all of these obscure grasses, the taxonomy is always a bit foggy. I'm using ITIS at the moment, as its what I use in my day to day field research, but I realized that Wikipedia might use a different one. Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 21:19, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Plants of the World Online (POWO) is the best general database at this point, but other sources can be followed if they can be shown to be better. GrassBase is the major specialized database for grasses that I'm aware of, but as it and POWO are both products of Kew, I expect that POWO probably follows GrassBase (but I haven't checked for discrepancies). I implemented automatic taxoboxes for most grass articles a couple months ago; I was following Soreng et al. for infrafamilial classification. Most of the grass articles still using manual taxoboxes are in genera not recognized by Soreng. I intend to revist the remaining manual taxoboxes, but haven't decided how to handle cases where Soreng and POWO/GrassBase disagree. Plantdrew (talk) 01:52, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Expanded Papaver

Plants of the World Online sinks a number of genera in tribe Papavereae of the Papaveraceae into Papaver, which in their circumscription includes Meconopsis, Roemeria and Stylomecon, which our family article keeps separate, and two of which have their own article. The molecular evidence for the para/polyphyly of traditional Papaver has been clear for a long time, but horticulturalists in particular have fought to keep Meconopsis separate from Papaver (excluding M. cambrica, which is clearly in Papaver, although the type species of Meconopsis). However, there does seem a trend towards accepting the merger, as exemplified by this paper.

That paper rejects the merger. What it proposes is transferring Meconopsis cambrica and Stylomecon heterophylla into Papaver, splitting Cathcartia from Meconopsis, and moving two groups of Papaver into Roemleria and Meconopsis respectively. Lavateraguy (talk) 08:24, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

@Lavateraguy: sorry, I should have written "at least parts of the merger" in relation to the paper; carelessness. Peter coxhead (talk) 11:50, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Can the genus name be retained if the type species is moved? Is there any precedent for such a move?   Jts1882 | talk  08:55, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes. There's a mechanism for overriding the rules of priority in taxonomic nomenclature to reduce disruption by the discovery of old names or reclassification of groups.

"As Grey-Wilson moved the original type Meconopsis cambrica out of Meconopsis, he (2012) proposed conservation of the generic name Meconopsis for the Asiatic species with a new type: Meconopsis regia G. Taylor. Because the Nomenclature Committee for Vascular Plants recommended Grey-Wilson's proposal (in Taxon 62(6): 1318. 2013), we use the generic name “Meconopsis” for the Asian species following Article 14.16 of the International Code of Nomenclature (McNeill et al. 2012)." Lavateraguy (talk) 09:34, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

It does seem uncontroversial that Meconopsis cambrica should be treated as Papaver cambricum; as Lavateraguy notes Meconopsis is conserved if the Asian species are treated as a separate genus. Peter coxhead (talk) 11:50, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Does anyone have any views on what we should do? Peter coxhead (talk) 16:19, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

• I have moved Meconopsis cambrica to Papaver cambricum, as this seems to be uncontroversial. Peter coxhead (talk) 16:56, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Plantae Barnstar

Introducing Template:The Plantae Barnstar Jerm (talk) 21:23, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Commons help requested

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Anyone interested in helping out with identification on some photos: there are tens of thousands of photos in Commons:Category:Unidentified plants and its subcategories, and any help there would be very welcome. I suspect that we actually have photos of no small number of the plants for which photos have been requested, but lack identification. Plenty of very nice photos, as you can see from the few examples I've given above. - Jmabel | Talk 05:52, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Taxonomic inconsistency

Genus Mauranthemum, but species Leucanthemum paludosum. Lavateraguy (talk) 22:22, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

GRIN and PoWO favour Mauranthemum paludosum, so a move seems justified. Peter coxhead (talk) 23:01, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

More data points - BSBI and Stace 3rd edn. have Mauranthemum as does Euro+Med Plantbase. Tele-Botanica however uses Leucanthemum. Lavateraguy (talk) 23:44, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

As does Stace 4th edition. Unless anyone objects soon, a move is right, I think. Peter coxhead (talk) 11:13, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

FNA, FloraBase (Western Australian herbarium), Flora Italiana and Flora Iberica all use Mauranthemum. Lavateraguy (talk) 17:27, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Extended Template for Wikipedia articles on Invasive Alien Plants

→ Template for Wikipedia articles on Invasive Alien Plants of Union concern

At the WikiThon on Invasive Alien Species held in January 2020 in Krakow, the participants developed a template for the description of Invasive Alien Species of Union concern.

As a next step, I compared it with your Taxon template and extended the structure of chapters 6 (Distribution and habitat) and 7 (Ecology) to fit required descriptives for Invasive Alien Plants. Details of the adaptations can be seen in the google sheet Wikiproject Plants - Template for plant articles, adapted for Invasive Alien Plants.

We would be grateful if you could critically review our template and check if it fits the "Wikiproject Plants" requirements.

Kind regards, Christian Ries (talk) 09:40, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

"Jankaea"

The article for Jankaea needs to be updated with the correct spelling as Jancaea. I haven't touched it because the article title also needs to be changed; see references on the talk page. 160.111.254.17 (talk) 14:26, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Agreed that IPNI, etc. have this spelling, but as I understand it, the genus has been sunk into Ramonda now, so more drastic changes are needed. Peter coxhead (talk) 16:55, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Warnstorfia exannulata

There is an open discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion#February 22 on Warnstorfia exannulata which may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. See there for the gory details; contributions welcome.

Leaving entirely to one side the issue of the desirability or otherwise of soft redirects to Wikispecies, it seems to me that a good solution to this particular XfD would be to write up Warnstorfia, which already exists in several non-English WPs. There is, however, a problem: WP:RS sources seem to suggest that Warnstorfia is currently placed in two different families; which means that research and writing may not be easy, and that the {{taxobox}} would be problematic. However, if anyone would like to have a go at it... Narky Blert (talk) 19:46, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

@Narky Blert:  Done I have created Warnstorfia and the associated taxonomy templates. Feel free to de-stub or adjust the taxonomy, I'm not a moss-guy. I'm also tempted to stub out Warnstorfia exannulata, but not tonight. --awkwafaba (📥) 04:28, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

@Awkwafaba: Thank you! Are you sure it's in family Amblystegiaceae though? Some sources say it's in de:Calliergonaceae. Narky Blert (talk) 09:33, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

@Narky Blert: I’m not sure, but I had to pick something. --awkwafaba (📥) 12:25, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

It doesn't help with the family assignment but the British Bryophyte Society has species pages for this moss and other British bryophytes. They were previously published as a field guide and might help with the article. list of species pages, e.g. Warnstorfia exannulata. —  Jts1882 | talk  13:46, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

I would go for family Calliergonaceae. This family was split off from Amblystegiaceae by Vanderpooten et al (2002). The Warnstorfia were included in family Calliergonaceae in Goffinet's Bryophyte Biology (2008) and is still placed there on the website based on that book, Classification of extant moss genera. The downloadable genus list was last updated on 7 January 2020. —  Jts1882 | talk  17:06, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

@Jts1882: Feel free to update {{Taxonomy/Warnstorfia}}. --awkwafaba (📥) 18:13, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware, there has never been any effort to make mosses consistently following any particular system of classification (and if there has been, there doesn't seem to be any effort to keep it up to date). I'd like to implement automatic taxoboxes for mosses with a consistent classification scheme at some point. I haven't done so yet because I haven't taken the time to research what classifications schemes are out ther, and which is the best accepted. I have a slight COI with regards to Goffinet; I had him as a professor and am better acquainted with him personally than any other taxonomist whose work I've cited on Wikipedia. I don't want to go with Goffinet's classification myself without input from other editors that Goffinet is a good source to follow (or suggest a better source?). Plantdrew (talk) 17:58, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Is there a good alternative? I've being reading up on "bryophyte" taxonomy and phylogeny and I don't see a clear alternative. The web pages by Goffinet (with Jan 2020 genera checklist) and Crandall-Stotler (not sure if stil updated) seem well supported by the literature (albeit you can't escape their influence there). The Cole bryophyte phylogeny poster is also a convenient consensus phylogeny (again with Goffinet).

I was considering setting up the higher level structure in the taxonomy templates. If people agree with following the Goffinet classification I will start doing so. —  Jts1882 | talk  18:20, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Domus solis?

Just wanted another opinion on this. Draft:Domus solis seems like a hoax to me, but that name has too many false positives when I search. The author hasn't contributed much else to Wikipedia. --awkwafaba (📥) 15:09, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

The Heliconiaceae is a monotypic family, and plants aren't classified into families based on smell, so that undermines the credibility of the article. No genus Domus shows up in an IPNI search, so that's another strike against it. Guettarda (talk) 15:23, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

No Google hits for "Domus solis" Heliconiaceae, or "Domus solis" Alacalufes. Hoax. (Zingiberales have a variety of reductive modifications from an ancestral two whorls of three, but single stamen was a red flag - a single stamen is what you might expect to find in a highly reduced male unisexual flower, not a showy flower. Alacalufes is another red flag - it is in Chilean Patagonia but Zingiberales are a tropical clade. And Kahlil Gabran is another red flag - would a Lebanese author with no obvious connection to botany have introduced the English name of an obscure plant species. Note also that if Heliconiaceae is commonly considered monogeneric that would imply Domus solis was a new description, which is inconsistent with a connection to a Lebanese author who died many years ago.) Lavateraguy (talk) 13:45, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

For me, Kahlil Gabran was the red flag that pointed to it being a hoax. Plantdrew (talk) 17:53, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

New botanic garden

A new botanic garden has recently opened, the Delaware Botanic Gardens. I've added references and links to it in a couple of articles but there is no article about the garden yet. The DBG is notable in part because of its meadow garden designed by Piet Oudolf. I can't create a new article as I don't have a Wikipedia account (and don't care to create one, been there done that!) but if anybody cares to do so, you can find more info at their website: http://delawaregardens.org 108.51.174.100 (talk) 14:25, 2 March 2020 (UTC)