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Agreeing with Lingveno, there is absolutely no historical sources to my knowledge, that would support the flag shown on this wikipedia page. All sources who argue on behalf of this black/red flag, cite the catalan atlas, eventhough first of all, that doesn't fit in any way chronologically in a time when it would be believable to assume Timur had his own flag representing his rule (instead of for example, a chagatayid bairaq, since claimed to be an amir on behalf of a chagatay pretender) , secondly, there is no black flag with red dots in the whole catalan atlas, at least where Timur would have been. We see the ilkhanid golden sign, with a red square, and we see the golden horde flag up in cumania / pontic steppe, and we see assumed chagatay flag, white with a yellow square, around eastern transoxania and moghulistan. The flag people mistakenly have assumed as a flag of Timur (for some reason) seems to be the white flag with three red crescents pointing up, which can be seen east of the golden horde, all the way to china, that is to say, the ulus of the great khan, which would make it the flag of the greath khans heart lands, maybe Yuan remnants? The coloring is an obvious mistake. There are cleaned versions of the Catalan Atlas to be found, and even if you look at the original scans of the map, you can clearly see the white color of the golden horde flag, for example, to have dimmed in the same way as the aforementioned three-crescent flag to the east.
Agreeing with Lingveno, there is absolutely no historical sources to my knowledge, that would support the flag shown on this wikipedia page. All sources who argue on behalf of this black/red flag, cite the catalan atlas, eventhough first of all, that doesn't fit in any way chronologically in a time when it would be believable to assume Timur had his own flag representing his rule (instead of for example, a chagatayid bairaq, since claimed to be an amir on behalf of a chagatay pretender) , secondly, there is no black flag with red dots in the whole catalan atlas, at least where Timur would have been. We see the ilkhanid golden sign, with a red square, and we see the golden horde flag up in cumania / pontic steppe, and we see assumed chagatay flag, white with a yellow square, around eastern transoxania and moghulistan. The flag people mistakenly have assumed as a flag of Timur (for some reason) seems to be the white flag with three red crescents pointing up, which can be seen east of the golden horde, all the way to china, that is to say, the ulus of the great khan, which would make it the flag of the greath khans heart lands, maybe Yuan remnants? The coloring is an obvious mistake. There are cleaned versions of the Catalan Atlas to be found, and even if you look at the original scans of the map, you can clearly see the white color of the golden horde flag, for example, to have dimmed in the same way as the aforementioned three-crescent flag to the east.
Whether Timur deliberately used the flag of the great khan to bolster his ambitions (at least on his own behalf), is questionable since he never even later took the title of khan.[[User:Hegaton|Hegaton]] ([[User talk:Hegaton|talk]]) 11:34, 10 October 2018 (UTC) <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Hegaton|Hegaton]] ([[User talk:Hegaton#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hegaton|contribs]]) 11:31, 10 October 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Whether Timur deliberately used the flag of the great khan to bolster his ambitions (at least on his own behalf), is questionable since he never even later took the title of khan.[[User:Hegaton|Hegaton]] ([[User talk:Hegaton|talk]]) 11:34, 10 October 2018 (UTC) <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Hegaton|Hegaton]] ([[User talk:Hegaton#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hegaton|contribs]]) 11:31, 10 October 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== lede is missing something ... ==

Reading it, I would think this was some average period in history. Nothing about the utter destruction and brutality Timur inflicting on civilization. [[Special:Contributions/50.111.19.21|50.111.19.21]] ([[User talk:50.111.19.21|talk]]) 00:03, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Revision as of 00:03, 22 May 2020

Template:Vital article

Name in Chagatai language

As I remember, previous revisions of this article had name of empire in Chagatai, just like Timur. Also, that language mentioned as an official language in infobox. So should we add Chagatai name too? --Zyma (talk) 08:14, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Chagatai language was not an official language in the empire yet had a widespread use, but all the official documentation was done in Persian. Including Chagatai everywhere where possible is due to the fact that modern version of Chagatai is Uzbek which is the official language of Uzbekistan comprising most of the empire's heart. --Lingveno (talk) 20:30, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Timurid Religion

Sufism is not a "branch" of Islam like that of Sunni and Shi'ite, it can't constitute the state religion. Timur and the Timurids were Sunni rulers with Sufi tendencies. What does the cited Russian source actually say about this? Chamboz (talk) 20:16, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It says that Sufism and Sufi people held great power in Central Asia during the Timurid dynasty rule and Sufism was widespread. If Sufism is not really a branch of Islam and cannot be an official religion, I propose getting it back to Islam or to Sunni Islam. --Lingveno (talk) 20:26, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, Sufism isn't really a branch, I'd say it should get changed back to Sunni Islam. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:41, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Do we have sources for Sunni Islam? --Lingveno (talk) 22:16, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have the ability to research information?
  • Timurids in Transition: Turko-Persian Politics and Acculturation, Volume 7, by Maria Subtelny, page 201;"Traditions that constituted the basis of the Timurid-sponsored revival of Sunni Islam."
  • Medieval Heresies: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, by Christine Caldwell Ames, page 269;"Timur the Lame came to rule this polity and then to expand it westwards, finally creating a Sunni Muslim "Timurid" empire..."--Kansas Bear (talk) 22:25, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Flag

Wanted to raise a concern about the flag. The one which is presented in the article looks more like a fan-art rather than a historical flag. In any source you will find that the flag was light-blue with the silver circles, and not black with red. The same blue flag you will find in the Timur museum in his hometown of Shahrisabz. --Lingveno (talk) 19:26, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Agreeing with Lingveno, there is absolutely no historical sources to my knowledge, that would support the flag shown on this wikipedia page. All sources who argue on behalf of this black/red flag, cite the catalan atlas, eventhough first of all, that doesn't fit in any way chronologically in a time when it would be believable to assume Timur had his own flag representing his rule (instead of for example, a chagatayid bairaq, since claimed to be an amir on behalf of a chagatay pretender) , secondly, there is no black flag with red dots in the whole catalan atlas, at least where Timur would have been. We see the ilkhanid golden sign, with a red square, and we see the golden horde flag up in cumania / pontic steppe, and we see assumed chagatay flag, white with a yellow square, around eastern transoxania and moghulistan. The flag people mistakenly have assumed as a flag of Timur (for some reason) seems to be the white flag with three red crescents pointing up, which can be seen east of the golden horde, all the way to china, that is to say, the ulus of the great khan, which would make it the flag of the greath khans heart lands, maybe Yuan remnants? The coloring is an obvious mistake. There are cleaned versions of the Catalan Atlas to be found, and even if you look at the original scans of the map, you can clearly see the white color of the golden horde flag, for example, to have dimmed in the same way as the aforementioned three-crescent flag to the east. Whether Timur deliberately used the flag of the great khan to bolster his ambitions (at least on his own behalf), is questionable since he never even later took the title of khan.Hegaton (talk) 11:34, 10 October 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hegaton (talk • contribs) 11:31, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

lede is missing something ...

Reading it, I would think this was some average period in history. Nothing about the utter destruction and brutality Timur inflicting on civilization. 50.111.19.21 (talk) 00:03, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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