Talk:Carnism

Carnist is a slur

It is used as a slur akin to nigger and kike (I officially apologize for using those fowl terms, but I wish to explain how offensive it is). Even the person who coined the term admits to it's current use as one. I don't understand why nobody has mentioned this in the article. Arglebargle79 (talk) 22:06, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

I agree with this. I've never heard it use as anything other than a snarl word.--Imperator-Zor (talk) 15:04, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

That's a pretty WP:EXCEPTIONAL claim; I always figured the slurs you mention were shocking primarily because of the ongoing histories of disenfranchisement, dehumanization, and murder of Black and Jewish people they represent, and there has been no such systemic persecution of people who support animal use. Do you know of reliable sources for your claim? Google Books and Scholar searches for '"carnist" "slur"' only find this book, which doesn't support the claim. FourViolas (talk) 03:11, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Vegans are a tiny minority who do not have any "real" power, but they act as if they do. In fact, it's a classic example of bigotry. Vegans protest restaurants and grocery stores, sometimes violently, and use slurs like "carnist" (which is, by the way, not a real ideology) in an effort to demonize omnivores. I gave two references in the main article, including one where Dr. Joy bemoans the term's use as a slur. Arglebargle79 (talk) 13:38, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

One of those sources (Renan Larue's personal page) doesn't mention the use of "carnist" as a slur; the other is a blog post that says it's "rumored that Melanie Joy herself dislikes current trends of vegans throwing around the term she popularized as a pejorative" but doesn't provide any evidence to back up these supposed rumors. Neither supports the claims that the term is "bigoted" or that it's "NEVER used by Omnivores do describe themselves". Per the Verifiability policy on self-published sources, it's not okay to use sources like this to make claims about third parties (e.g. "radical vegetarians and vegans" or "all omnivores"), so I'm going to remove the material. Please don't restore it without reliable secondary sources; if you're unsure about whether a source qualifies, you can bring it up here before adding it. FourViolas (talk) 14:24, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Do you consider fascist a slur? It's more like that. 2601:640:4000:3170:D47A:2B79:239D:1B09 (talk) 04:57, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Carnist is simply the opposite of ethical vegan, just as violence is the opposite of ahimsa or harmless. Being violent only points to the action, not the person. Thus "carnist" is not a slur as a "fascist" but only viewed so by omnivores due to their own guilt consciousness about the harm caused by their actions. At best, it can only be counted as a point of view. Rasnaboy (talk) 07:06, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Fascist is not a slur. If you say nigger you will be ostracized from society. You can't even say that word in mentioning its use, you would have to say "the n-word". On the other hand, fascist is used all the time, and most of the time it isn't describing something that's really fascist. 2601:640:4000:3170:D47A:2B79:239D:1B09 (talk) 16:31, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Why does this page exist?

Shouldn't this page be a candidate for deletion? This is an article for a made up word that's not in common usage. Ergzay (talk) 13:00, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Lots of terms used in particular academic fields aren't in common usage. There are plenty of high-quality scholarly sources, as cited in the article. If you want to nominate the page for deletion, you are welcome to do so, but I don't know if you'll get very far. This is hardly a good start; that borders on vandalism. At best, it's an unsourced claim. Josh Milburn (talk) 13:11, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Just because you don't like a certain thing, Ergzay, does that mean it shouldn't exist? Pretty much, this is used a LOT by Vegans to try and usurp Omnivores, like most people on this earth, into not eating meat and adding percieved animal cruelty into the mix.ZL3XD (talk) 10:27, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

CEVA

Should there be a distinct page for CEVA, the Center for Effective Vegan Advocacy? and 'Beyond Carnism'? MaynardClark (talk) 14:00, 26 July 2020 (UTC)