Talk:The Sengol

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so many thing wrong about this article

This item doesn't require such a long article.
poor copyediting. looks like everything was copy pasted from news article
why does the article have 'The' in the title
The words sengol is a Tamil word used for sceptre since antiquity. not just this one particular one.

ChandlerMinh (talk) 12:53, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Sengol is the Tamil term for the right sceptre (as opposed to the cruel sceptre is called the Kodungol) as described in ancient Tamil moral treatises, such as the Kural. It symbolizes a ruler's right way of ruling. This article is about a metal staff that represented the symbolic transfer of power during Indian Independence. Rasnaboy (talk) 05:02, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think so. Let's hear others opinions. Kautilyapundit (talk) 12:22, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"""The words sengol is a Tamil word used for sceptre since antiquity. not just this one particular one."""

Second this. This topic is not article worthy. If this sceptre has a unique name it should be moved to a subsection of the parliament page. Else it belongs in the 'Sceptre' article. SubtleChuckle (talk) 16:28, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

title

I have changed the title from The Sengol to Sengol (sceptre) as per WP:TITLE ChandlerMinh (talk) 13:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fact check

Sengol | Evidence thin on government’s claims about the sceptre ChandlerMinh (talk) 05:03, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Hindu newspaper is allegedly criticized for its leftist leanings aftermath the takeover by N Ram. So, it is better to provide references from other valid resources as well to provide a neutral point of view. Bsskchaitanya (talk) 13:34, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The newspaper merely points out to the lack of solid historical sources pre-2023. This has nothing to do with the editor's political leanings. SubtleChuckle (talk) 15:49, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

not pure gold

the gold used in this about 800 grams. which won't be enough to make a full 5 feet long sceptre. inside is silver. ChandlerMinh (talk) 07:32, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Any source pls? Kautilyapundit (talk) 12:25, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus

Hello editors, @Rahil1610: @Bsskchaitanya: @Lawofoctaves: @TheAafi: @Parimaltek: @Rasnaboy: @Arasksk:@GhostInTheMachine: @Hedgeunkil: @Onel5969: @খাঁ শুভেন্দু: please reach a consensus and kindly don't indulge in mindlessly reverting and changing the content of the page. the page should be neutral and should address both side's arguments. please follow all WP guidelines. ChandlerMinh (talk) 09:48, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@ChandlerMinh ofcourse. i agree. i edit with sources and i support neutral view Rahil1610 (talk) 09:50, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not mention me unnecessarily. I have not edited this page except for removing an "orphan" tag. ─ The Aafī (talk) 11:29, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@ChandlerMinh Wikipedia should not be a place of political debates. We are here to add content from various resources. Recently, I have added a photo from an archive of then leading Telugu paper. Every Telugu scholar with basic knowledge about Andhra history knows the authenticity of that era Telugu newspapers such as Andhra Patrika, Krishna Patrika and Golconda Patrika. For your information, during that time Andhra Patrika was taking of Indian National Congress and in a way critical of then opposition parties such as Justice party and Communist Party of India. This newspaper played major role in spreading the Gandhiji's ideals and seeds of Indian nationalism through the Telugu areas of Madras presidency and was established by an Congressman, a great patriot, Sri Kasinadhuni Nageswara Rao garu. So, I suppose there is no need to doubt the authenticity from this source. Bsskchaitanya (talk) 13:31, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please ensure that you do not make a logical fallacy when using the talk pages. (argumentum ad verecundiam) SubtleChuckle (talk) 16:20, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sengol and Tamils

Sengol has been a symbol of power and righteousness rule of Tamil kings especially Chozhas. So, sengol is a general object representing a king's rule in historic period and the sengol presented to Nehru is just another Sengol. So, this article sengol must be representing about the general values of sengol rather than the specific Sengol of nehru and this page should not be deleted.... Vishwa Sundar (talk) 16:37, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

> this article sengol must be representing about the general values of sengol

You are looking for Sceptre. Sceptres (Sengol) have been widely used outside the Indian subcontinent, therefore it would be appropriate for the article to be merged with Sceptre. SubtleChuckle (talk) 16:56, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of Proposed deletion

Rationale of nominator:

Trivial topic that hugely violates WP:NRVE, since there is no pre-2023 source that describes the sceptre as anything beyond a gift presented to Nehru. Also refer this page. Can be merged with the Indian Parliament page. SubtleChuckle (talk) 15:46, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It had its history according to several sources and news paper but wasn't popular. Now it's installed in New Parliament building and became widely popular as a symbol of India as well as media coverage. People will ofcourse come to know what it is. I don't think for the delition. Rahil1610 (talk) 02:42, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The newspapers merely quote what the ruling party and the religious establisments said. That does not mean that such events actually happened. Please let me know of sources from the independence era that back up what is said in the article.

SubtleChuckle (talk) 03:04, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@SubtleChuckle go to the history header, an image has been added which is written in Tamil or Telugu. Whatever it's history is. but it is now installed in parliament with a ceremony beside ashoke chakra, so it has become a part of history now along with new parliament building. deletion of this page is stupid and it would be yor personal problem. i am done here. Your proposal for deletion has been removed many times by several senior users. Rahil1610 (talk) 03:08, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My rationale:

The Sengol has significant coverage Wikipedia:SIGCOV in recent history for New Parliament building. [1] Even today there was an elaborate ceremony over the handing over of Sengol. Newspapers in India has dedicated articles on the Sengol. A comprehensive WP:AfD can be proposed by the nominator; however this does not quality under PROD. Redtigerxyz ^Talk 16:59, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And nominator should not replace the notice once removed. Equine-man (talk) 17:11, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Siva holding Sengol

there are Natraj murtis holding Sengol. So deletion req seems unfair and motivated. Satish-ansingkar (talk) 01:32, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree Rahil1610 (talk) 02:43, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My URL unfortunately indicates that this in an English Encyclopedia. That'd mean the article should be moved to Sceptre#India. SubtleChuckle (talk) 02:48, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@SubtleChuckle this is now as like a symbol which is placed in new parliament building. it should have it's own page. and history. and don't add deletion topic again and again. Rahil1610 (talk) 02:50, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are atleast 10 other artifacts present that originated from different parts of the India that are kept in the parliament. My point was that this 'sengol' was merely one such gift to Nehru and there are no pre-2023 sources to back the absurds claimed in the story. If you believe this article does not need a deletion, please state your point in the deletion discussion page instead of removing it.

SubtleChuckle (talk) 02:56, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@SubtleChuckle it has been removed several times by most senior users. and you are adding it again and again. It seems your personal problem. Sengol has become widely popular and even if it was gift but now it's installed in parliament building with Ashoka Chakra. Importance of it has been improved now. No need more discussion as per it's removed several times. Rahil1610 (talk) 03:02, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ruling party propaganda that gains popularity does not necessarily mean they are article worthy. For an encyclopedia, you'd need solid sources from the independance era that states what is claimed by the article.

SubtleChuckle (talk) 03:10, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add the sengol image

an image of sengol from New Parliament building must be added. Rahil1610 (talk) 02:45, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]