Talk:Jeffrey Katzenberg
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Untitled
There is a little bit more information about Katzenberg's early career in the SaveDisney.com article entitled "The Rise and Fall of Disney Animation in the Modern Era". It's told from an animator's perspective, so there's not much about Katzenberg specifically, but his actions are described in several places. --Ardonik.talk() 23:33, Sep 8, 2004 (UTC)
He was under investigation for campaign finance violations at 14? Really?
Katzenberg Foundation
The Katzenberg Foundation, treasured by David Geffen, suffered significant losses as a result of the Bernard Madoff financial collapse. (See: "Preliminary Estimates of Madoff Exposure") — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petey Parrot (talk • contribs) 08:01, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Star Trek
The article reads "until he was assigned to revive the Star Trek franchise, which resulted in the hit film, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (1979)."
This makes it sound as if Katzenberg played a pivotal role in reviving the franchise or was in charge of the effort. Since this portion of the article is not well sourced its hard to know what is meant by it, but other articles give him a very minor role in the project. Does someone have a source than can clear up the discrepancy? Wickedjacob (talk) 19:37, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
Dreamworks New Media
Why did Katzenberg leave his post as chairman of Dreamworks New Media? Is it because he was as far as we know that he was disgraced by being demoted to that post? --97.113.208.181 (talk) 00:09, 2 April 2017 (UTC)Evan Kalani Opedal
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Disney Renaissance
Should we add that the Disney Renaissance happened in spite of Jeffrey Katzenberg. Sure he did help start it but when he nearly killed the animation division at first. Here are two articles:
"The Disney Renaissance Didn’t Happen Because of Jeffrey Katzenberg; It Happened In Spite of Him" "Four Wins of the Disney Renaissance that Happened in Spite of Jeffrey Katzenberg" --Evope (talk) 23:35, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Blacklisted Link
I am trying to run the IA bot to archive the refrence links, but it won’t allow me due to a link that is “blacklisted by wikipedia” I removed a unreliable source, but it wasnt it, could anyone take a look and see what’s up GameOfAwesome (talk) 00:36, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
Early life request and additional sources
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, I'm Jeffrey (not this Jeffrey, but he is my boss) and I was hoping to make a small update to the Early life section.
Edit request
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First, I suggest renaming the section Early life and education as I think that better encapsulates the content of the section and seems to better meet style guidelines for biographies from what I've read. Second, I'd like to suggest some minor tweaks to the last two sentences of that section and some additional sources for it, something like this He received the nickname "Squirt" and eventually became a member of Lindsay's staff as an advance man after attending New York University for one year.[1][2]
References
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I think that adds more specificity, clearly identifying Katzenberg as the advance man, and improves the grammar a bit. It also adds in some more quality sources. Let me know what you think! I won't make any changes myself due to my conflict of interest.
I've also got some bigger changes I'm hoping to make, and so that editors could better compare the current article against those changes, I made a diff and a draft, which you can find here if you are interested. Thanks for taking a look! JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 18:41, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
Reviewing request. Thank you for your suggestions, I will take a closer look as soon as I can if nobody else does so before me.
- Thank you for your contribution! NotAGenious (talk) 08:41, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- Hi @JeffreyAtWndrCo,
- I've reviewed your edit request, and came to the following conclusion.
Done The section "Early life" has been renamed to "Early life and education"
Partly done The information about working full time as an advance man was added. However, I didn't change "drop out from univerity" to "attending university for one year". I didn't use the Business Insider article as a source, as I think it isn't needed. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The two last sentence go as follows:
- He quickly received the nickname "Squirt" and attended as many meetings as he could.[1] He went on to attend New York University for one year, before dropping out to work full-time as an advance man for Lindsay.[2][3]
- You can review my full edit here: [[1]].
- Thank you!
- All the best, NotAGenious (talk) 10:52, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- That change seems fine to me, thanks for the quick review! JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 20:57, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
Source update and Paramount Pictures section
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, I noticed that there was a banned source (filmreference.com) in the Early life and education section and an unsupported statement. I was able to find a couple of sources that meet current guidelines and added Katzenberg's birthdate, would anyone be interested in adding this in? I put them in context in the box below:
Edit request
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Katzenberg was born on December 21, 1950, in New York City,[4] to a Jewish family, the son of Anne, an artist, and Walter Katzenberg, a stockbroker.[5][6]
I also noticed that there weren't any sources in the Paramount Pictures subsection. I was able to dig a couple of them up, and I also threw in a couple more movies that Katzenberg worked on. The only changes I made were removing the year for Star Trek: The Motion Picture (this doesn't seem to match other articles and seems unnecessary given the film has its own article, but let me know if I'm wrong!) and adding those three films at the end. Would editors find this acceptable? Changes in the box below: Katzenberg began his career as an assistant to producer David V. Picker, then in 1974 he became an assistant to Barry Diller, the chairman of Paramount Pictures.[5][6] Diller moved Katzenberg to the marketing department, followed by other assignments within the studio, until he was assigned to revive the Star Trek franchise, which resulted in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. He continued to work his way up and became president of production under Paramount's president, Michael Eisner, overseeing the production of films including 48 Hrs., Terms of Endearment, and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.[7]
References
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Please let me know what you think! I won't make any changes due to my COI. Cheers JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 21:02, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
Reply 1-JUL-2023
Edit request implemented Spintendo 18:39, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for doing that! JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 20:13, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
Disney request #1
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, I had a couple of requests for the Disney section and because it's a longer one I thought I'd break it up into several posts so it's more digestible. If you're curious about what all the changes I'm proposing look like in context, I made a draft which you can see here.
For my first request, I'm proposing making some changes and updates to the first paragraph of The Walt Disney Studios section. My proposed text is below. Because it's a little more dense I tried to show specific wording changes more clearly:
Edit request
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In 1984, Eisner became chief executive officer (CEO) of The Walt Disney Company. Eisner brought Katzenberg with him to serve as chairman of The Walt Disney Studios.[1][2]
References
What I've done:
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Please let me know what you think! As always I won't make any changes myself due to my COI. JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 20:16, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
Reply 5-JUL-2023
- The edit request could not be reviewed because, as noted in the request, two references have not been provided on the talk page as sources for the proposed claim statements.
- When ready to proceed with the requested references, kindly reopen the request by altering the
{{request edit}}
template's answer parameter to read from|ans=yes
to|ans=no
. Thank you!
Regards, Spintendo 22:43, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- @Spintendo: Sorry, I thought it would be okay if they were already cited in the article. In going over it again I realized that I had named the Guardian citation something different from what is in the live article, so I'm fixing that and putting the other cite in below.
Edit request
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References
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- Let me know if this works! JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 14:45, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
Reply 15-JUL-2023
Edit request implemented Spintendo 18:10, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you! JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 18:59, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Disney request #2
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. The reviewer would like to request the editor with a COI attempt to discuss with editors engaged in the subject-area first. |
Hi editors, following up here with the next request for the Disney section, which will hopefully begin to address that warning banner. If you're curious about what all the changes I'm proposing look like in context, I made a draft which you can see here.
For this request, I'm proposing making some changes to the second paragraph in the The Walt Disney Studios section. I've detailed those changes below and struck through and underlined parts that are changing.
References
- ^ Thomas, Bob (1991). Disney's Art of animation: From Mickey Mouse to Beauty and the Beast. New York: Hyperion. ISBN 978-1-56282-997-1. Retrieved February 6, 2023.
- ^ Wolff, Ellen (September 29, 2016). "How Jeffrey Katzenberg Became Leader of the Animation Revolution". Variety. Retrieved February 9, 2023.
- ^ Puig, Claudia (March 26, 2010). "'Waking Sleeping Beauty' documentary takes animated look at Disney renaissance". USA Today. Retrieved February 10, 2023.
- ^ Hahn, Don (2009). Waking Sleeping Beauty (Documentary film). Burbank, California: Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures.
- ^ Taylor, Drew (May 20, 2020). "The Disney Renaissance Didn't Happen Because of Jeffrey Katzenberg; It Happened In Spite of Him". Collider. Retrieved February 6, 2023.
- ^ Borden, Mark (December 1, 2009). "Jeffrey Katzenberg Plans on Living Happily Ever After". Fast Company. Retrieved February 10, 2023.
What I've done:
- Split the first sentence
- Corrected the amount of time cut from The Black Cauldron and added a Web Archive link and page number to the book cited
- Changed the wording of the link to the Disney Renaissance to add more clarity and added sources specifically crediting Katzenberg for that era
- Made minor changes to break up sentences
- Changed the link for Academy Award for Best Picture to be wholly to that article instead of split between two different articles
- Added a bit about Pocahontas, which was also produced under Katzenberg and is considered part of that era of Disney films
- Reworded final sentence to be more encyclopedic and remove promotional language
- Removed bit about Miramax as that was mentioned earlier and is now redundant
Please let me know what you think! As always happy to discuss these changes and I'll hold off on making them myself due to my COI. JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 19:03, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for submitting these changes, they are much appreciated. As you know, slight changes in wording can have a major impact on the tone of an article. This includes circumstances where the change involves only one word. For example, from your present request:
Puffery | Non-puffery |
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"The films produced under Katzenberg's leadership during this era include..." | "The films produced under Katzenberg during this era include..." |
- In the above circumstance, the addition of one word changes the task of the sentence from communicating rote information into something more fawning. Identifying these words in your proposed text and deleting them before they are brought to the review stage is essential in a process eventually leading to improvement in the article's WP:NPOV.
- Additionally, in the Disney Renaissance article, Katzenberg's name is mentioned only once. The claims made in the proposed text make it sound as if he was wholly responsible for a phenomenon that had many different "parents". Please advise. Regards, Spintendo 19:58, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- @Spintendo: if you feel the word "leadership" is inappropriate, I am perfectly okay with removing it! As for the Disney Renaissance article, I did not write it and could only guess why editors there made the choices they did regarding who to discuss. I can only go off what sources say about it:
- Variety "After all, during the prior decade at Disney, Katzenberg had shepherded a resurgence of hand-drawn animation with hits including “Aladdin” and “The Lion King.”"
- Fast Company "But Katzenberg also electroshocked Disney’s films out of a stuporous rut, spawning hits from Who Framed Roger Rabbit to Aladdin to The Lion King — a revival that not only reestablished animation as an art form but also drove the studio’s revenues from $320 million in 1985 to $4.8 billion in 1994."
- I've tried to retain as much of the original language in the article in that section as possible. Ultimately, as head of the studio, decisions to approve the production of the films during the late 80s and early 90s were made by Jeffrey Katzenberg.
- The text changes I've proposed clean up a long wikilink and specify which films were produced while Katzenberg was studio chair, as the Disney Renaissance continued after he left the company. I think showing where that timeline ends is important, but am open to other interpretations.
- I hope that helps clarify my thinking! JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 20:30, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
As for the Disney Renaissance article, I did not write it and could only guess why editors there made the choices they did regarding who to discuss. I can only go off what sources say about it:
Or more to the point—what certain sources say about it. You're familiar with sources such as the following:- Taylor, Drew (May 20, 2020). "The Disney Renaissance Didn't Happen Because of Jeffrey Katzenberg; It Happened In Spite of Him". Collider. Retrieved February 6, 2023.
- That source gives us a clue that there might be a significant debate around who, If any one person, should be credited with ushering in what I'll call the DR. With your proposed text
under his management the animation department produced some of Disney's most critically acclaimed and highest-grossing films in a period known as the Disney Renaissance.
and your reasoning offered in the request: "to add more clarity and added sources specifically crediting Katzenberg for that era" I think adding that claim might be problematic. If the DR is going to be mentioned at all, I would kindly suggest that the wording be changed to reflect what a preponderance of the sources say about the DR—and that requires some deep diving for sources stating who was responsible for it. Academic journals would be preferred. That would protect us against any claims that we were cherry picking the sources in order to make broad claims about responsibility for the DR. I know it's a lot to ask, but that's the cost if we're going to be making this claim. Regards, Spintendo 01:09, 1 August 2023 (UTC)- @Spintendo: You raise some good points, and I realize my use of the phrase "specifically crediting" may have been confusing. In this case, by "specifically crediting", I meant "mention Katzenberg in conjunction with the Disney Renaissance" so that a direct connection can be established via sourcing between him and the Disney Renaissance. To be clear, what I hope to do is provide sources for the facts already in the live article: that these films were critical and commercial successes, that they were produced while Katzenberg headed the animation studio, to note what that time period was called by making a link a bit shorter and more clear, and to clearly define which films were produced under Katzenberg (so there's no confusion with Hercules, for example). I'm also hoping to clean up the last sentence in the paragraph, making the language less sensational and cutting repetitive information about the Miramax deal.
- @Spintendo: if you feel the word "leadership" is inappropriate, I am perfectly okay with removing it! As for the Disney Renaissance article, I did not write it and could only guess why editors there made the choices they did regarding who to discuss. I can only go off what sources say about it:
- This paragraph in the current article didn't properly reflect the information in source 8, so I fixed that and added a page number. Source 10 is a blog and has a note questioning its reliability, so I replaced it with a better source. Source 9 is the Collider piece you mention and which I included in my list of sources in the initial request. That piece confirms that he was head of the studio, that the movies were successful, and that they were part of the Disney Renaissance.
- I think we're actually in agreement here! Neither of us want to give Katzenberg undue credit. My goal is to clarify events as they happened and prevent potential confusion for readers. In context, without the bits to cut, it might make a bit more sense (cutting the word leadership as you suggested):
- Katzenberg was also charged with turning around Disney's ailing Feature Animation unit. He created some intrastudio controversy when he personally edited "2 or 3" minutes out of a completed Disney animated feature, The Black Cauldron,[1]: 114 but under his management the animation department produced some of Disney's most critically acclaimed and highest-grossing films in a period known as the Disney Renaissance.[2][3] The films produced under Katzenberg during this era include The Great Mouse Detective, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Oliver and Company, The Little Mermaid, The Rescuers Down Under, Beauty and the Beast—which was the first animated feature to be nominated for an Academy Award for Best Picture—Aladdin, The Nightmare Before Christmas, The Lion King, and Pocahontas, which was developed concurrently with The Lion King and which Katzenberg felt was the more important of the two.[4][5] Katzenberg also brokered a deal with Pixar to produce 3D computer-generated animated movies and greenlit production of Toy Story.[6]
References
- ^ Thomas, Bob (1991). Disney's Art of animation: From Mickey Mouse to Beauty and the Beast. New York: Hyperion. ISBN 978-1-56282-997-1. Retrieved February 6, 2023.
- ^ Wolff, Ellen (September 29, 2016). "How Jeffrey Katzenberg Became Leader of the Animation Revolution". Variety. Retrieved February 9, 2023.
- ^ Puig, Claudia (March 26, 2010). "'Waking Sleeping Beauty' documentary takes animated look at Disney renaissance". USA Today. Retrieved February 10, 2023.
- ^ Hahn, Don (2009). Waking Sleeping Beauty (Documentary film). Burbank, California: Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures.
- ^ Taylor, Drew (May 20, 2020). "The Disney Renaissance Didn't Happen Because of Jeffrey Katzenberg; It Happened In Spite of Him". Collider. Retrieved February 6, 2023.
- ^ Borden, Mark (December 1, 2009). "Jeffrey Katzenberg Plans on Living Happily Ever After". Fast Company. Retrieved February 10, 2023.
- I hope that clears things up, let me know what you think! JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 17:47, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
- @JeffreyAtWndrCo The problem I have with this is that the wording makes it sound like Katzenberg was in charge of the animation department, when he wasn't, he was chairman of the studio. There was also a president of the company as well as a president of the animation department. If we're crediting leaders of departments then shouldn't they be mentioned (e.g., "Under his company chairmanship, along with animation department head ____ and studio president _____ , the animation department produced some of Disney's most critically acclaimed films during the first half of the period known as the DR"). There ought to be well-defined lines surrounding these positions and time periods rather than soft porous edges. Regards, Spintendo 09:42, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Spintendo: I think I see the confusion now. Katzenberg was in charge of the animation department. As chair of The Walt Disney Studios, he was also in charge of Walt Disney Feature Animation and Television Animation, and was given a specific directive to turn the animation segment around by Disney CEO Michael Eisner. Animation was Katzenberg's responsibility, ultimately. This is reported in many sources. I didn't include them in the request as I thought it might be overciting. Here are a few which note the edict he was given to turn around the animation department or otherwise make clear that he was head of animation as well:
- @JeffreyAtWndrCo The problem I have with this is that the wording makes it sound like Katzenberg was in charge of the animation department, when he wasn't, he was chairman of the studio. There was also a president of the company as well as a president of the animation department. If we're crediting leaders of departments then shouldn't they be mentioned (e.g., "Under his company chairmanship, along with animation department head ____ and studio president _____ , the animation department produced some of Disney's most critically acclaimed films during the first half of the period known as the DR"). There ought to be well-defined lines surrounding these positions and time periods rather than soft porous edges. Regards, Spintendo 09:42, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- I hope that clears things up, let me know what you think! JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 17:47, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Extended content
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- And to clarify, Katzenberg was chairman of The Walt Disney Studios; he was head of Disney animation by virtue of his position as The Walt Disney Studios chairman. He was in charge of all feature films and had direct engagement with all animated films produced while he was at Disney, made the final call to approve them for production, and often had a hand in shaping them. That isn't to say others didn't play an important role in the process, but this article is also not about the Disney Renaissance, it's about Jeffrey Katzenberg, so I was trying to keep it focused on him (while not making too many changes to the already existing text).
- That said, I'm perfectly okay with noting the contributions of others. In this case, it would be Roy E. Disney (Walt Disney Feature Animation chairman) and Peter Schneider (Walt Disney Feature Animation vice president).[1]
References
- ^ Taylor, Drew (May 20, 2020). "The Disney Renaissance Didn't Happen Because of Jeffrey Katzenberg; It Happened In Spite of Him". Collider. Retrieved February 6, 2023.
Roy Disney, Walt's nephew and the technical head of the animation unit, installed Peter Schneider as vice-president, who looked to make the division leaner and more technologically savvy, and aligned himself with Katzenberg.
- I should note that Roy's title isn't super clear in a lot of sources and often just describes him as "head" of Walt Disney Feature Animation. His technical title was "chairman" of Walt Disney Feature Animation. The Collider piece has Schenider's title as VP right though.
- So the correct sentence would be, "Under Katzenberg's studio chairmanship, with animation chairman Roy E. Disney and animation vice president Peter Schneider, Walt Disney Feature Animation produced some of Disney's most commercially and critically successful films during the first half of the period known as the Disney Renaissance."
- Note: I do think the commercial success part is important, as before the Disney Renaissance, Disney had been struggling at the box office.
- Let me know if that works for you! JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 17:54, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
Not done for now: Please establish a consensus with editors engaged in the subject area before using the {{Edit COI}} template for this proposed change. I find this revised sentence to be acceptable, but I can't unilaterally implement it now, seeing as how the section in question is under dispute (per the
{{POV dispute}}
template) and might conflict with information appearing under that section. Regards, Spintendo 19:06, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Spintendo: I'll post to WikiProject Filmmakers. Thanks for the suggestion! JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 19:20, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
Recent Aladdin content addition
@OneWordWonder and DanCherek: I noticed that you recently added content related to a contract dispute between Disney and Robin Williams on the Aladdin film. I'm still learning the ropes of these things but it doesn't seem to me like that content meets the requirements of the rule for biographies of living people.
Maybe most importantly, the sourcing used doesn't support the claims made and actually directly refutes them. The cited LA Times article actually specifically says that it was not Katzenberg's fault, and quotes Williams, specifically, declining to blame Katzenberg:
- "But Roth stressed that his overture to Williams was in no way meant as a signal that he was heaping blame on Katzenberg. 'This is not a Jeffrey or a non-Jeffrey issue whatsoever,' Roth said. 'This is something that happened inside a very large organization through its merchandising and all of its tentacles that went out with what they thought was the best way to sell a picture.'"
- "Williams also declined to heap blame on Katzenberg, saying the problem was caused by Disney's monster marketing machine. 'I wouldn't want to take a whack at Jeffrey,' he said. 'It's a company thing. Something went wrong.'"
There are some other issues: The opening sentences attributed to this Entertainment Weekly source aren't actually supported by that source. The source does not talk about poster art or not using voice work, Katzenberg reneging on the contract, nor excessive marketing or merchandising. In fact, the article expressly does not say anything about Disney/Katzenberg breaking the contract. This is the only paragraph tying Katzenberg and the contract together in the article:
- "Keen as Disney was on his participation, the company played hardball with Williams' contract. He reportedly worked for scale. Katzenberg says there were some disagreements over 'teeny, teeny, little things, inconsequential in anybody's measure,' but no big money battles. Why, then, is Williams doing no interviews expressly for Aladdin?"
The article talks a bit more about Williams' absence from the film's press junket, noting it was planned from "day one" and due to his commitments with other films. It also gives the only specific information about the contract, citing Williams' publicist as the source for Disney not being allowed to use Williams' name as part of the publicity package.
The article noting Williams' quip about Disney does not mention Katzenberg at any point. Additionally, none of that is relevant to Katzenberg, nor is anything related to Mork & Mindy, and I don't think it should be in an article about him. Williams reprising the role of Genie is also explicitly not related to Katzenberg and probably shouldn't be in the article.
In light of this, I recommend the content should be removed from this article, as again, he was specifically not blamed for the contract dispute. Please let me know what you think! Given my COI I'm holding off on making these changes myself. JeffreyAtWndrCo (talk) 17:56, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
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