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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by A J Damen (talk | contribs) at 09:36, 13 April 2007 (→‎Alternative to outright move). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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The "Inquiry" on Plagarism Blurb

I must say I was forced to temporarily remove the blurb relating to the plagarism inquiry. It was poorly written and clearly not done so by someone with a mastery of the English language. Do not get me wrong, I am open to its existence... just in a readable form. Please re-write it and do not simply revert it, as in its former form, it simply made no sense. Homazu 18:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

conan?

will he be in his normal size again???!

Naming?

Sry about awaking an old topic, but why were the american names used? i mean isnt that a sabotage on the original product? if dub names were to be used, why werent all anime/manga entries on wikipedia written with dub names? (thankfully no dub names are used in all the others) should we revert Kuririn of Dragon Ball to "Krillin"(American dub) or "Crilli"(Italian dub) then? no ay? why should this be the odd one out? i'm maltese and i watch DC on an italian channel and the original names are used, so i dont care about "Jimmy" but i'd identify "Shinichi" immediately. so do millions around the world. Furthermore, sometimes there's no consistency. sometimes you see "Kaminski" and sometimes you see "Kojima". can anything be done to ensure consistency and loyalty to what is original?

Because there is no consensus on names, and it was using dub names when it was created. See Talk:Case Closed/Name dispute discussions. BTW, if the dub names would be used in the most of the English world (US, Canada, UK), it has a bigger case than it's usually be...--Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK·CONTRIBS 01:20, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mori or Mouri

What´s the right spelling? I see that both spelling is used for the last name of Ran and Kogoro. --ckorff 12:35, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Both of them are "accepted" ways to spell the name, but VIZ, LLC romanizes it as "Mori". WhisperToMe 22:25, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Mori has another meaning in Japanese, which is forest and also regarded as name. So this one should be Mouri, the same as the name of one of the most important figures in Japanese history. --Heinlich 06:36, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Heinlich... Mouri can also be written as Mori. WhisperToMe 06:53, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Mouri is the correct spelling. I'm perfectly sure about this. -- 24.59.122.206 07:12, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No you aren't. That's not even the Hepburn form. WhisperToMe 22:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's used both ways. --68.95.153.245 12:35, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

By WP:MOS-JP, both forms are incorrect; it should be Mōri. Samuel Curtis 07:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not true. According to MOS JA, people naming works differently. VIZ romanizes as "Mori", so... WhisperToMe 18:39, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While its true that "Mori" is a common way to romanize 毛利(もうり), it it doesn't allow for bidirectional kana-romaji use. Moreover, another (much more common) family name 森(もり) can be romanized the same way. (in bidirectional romaji "Mori"). BTW "Mōri" is 50% incorrect. Since おう (ou) and おお (oo) can BOTH be romanized "ō". (And that system's annoying to read.)

Except the rules of Hepburn explicitly state that "ou" becomes "ō" if the sound is "ō". WhisperToMe 02:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Important Characters?

Are all of the characters listed in the article that important that they need their own wikis (which someone seemed to imply by giving them all internal links)? Currently, there is plenty of room here to give a sufficient description and picture for each one and if that becomes untrue one day then someone can separate them into a different article likely named "Characters of Detective Conan" or "Detective Conan characters", which seems to be the trend with other very popular animes.--Kamasutra 22:01, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"Characters of Case Closed", reflecting the English versions. Multiple articles can appear once the portal articles fill. WhisperToMe 08:21, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Names of "Minor" characters on CC TCG Site

Names of several "Minor" characters in the CC version has been revealed in the CC TCG site; excluding what it's on, we also have George Kaminski for Genta and Mitch Tennison for Mitsuhiko. However, these were given in CC anime up to now. Should they be used?

Also, the CC TCG page also had a few spelling errors; Agasa's name is Hershel in the anime subtitles but Herschel in that site; Amy's surname is Yeager in the anime sub but Yaeger on the site. Should we really believe what that site says? Inseckter Magieer is exserly inportnta character.

Conan and Arthur Conan Doyle?

I do not watch the show, but it seems to me that the main character may be named for Arthur Conan Doyle, the famed author of Sherlock Holmes. This would correspond to the detective theme of the show, but I am quite possibly incorrect about the reference. Can someone confirm this and possibly add it?

Er...to quote the article:
Following the advice of Dr. Hiroshi Agasa (Dr. Hershel Agasa in the English anime), Jimmy hides who he really is, lest the men in black find out that he is alive. When Rachel asks for his name, Jimmy spots books by Arthur Conan Doyle and Edogawa Rampo and comes up with the name "Conan Edogawa." Agasa then suggests that "Conan" go live with Rachel, and both Kudo and Ran accept the change.
So, uh...yeah. :) RADICALBENDER★ 01:38, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

Heh. Sorry about that. Thanks anyway.

Episode guide

Since someone added a list of episodes, I think it's best to make a page for those episodes. --Snkcube 06:40, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Been there, done that -- Genesis 15:59, 18 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Poor ratings on Adult Swim?

When I caught it on Cartoon Network, it was on too early in the morning after watching Adult Swim late into the night, and then going to bed. Detective Conan was shown after the repeat run. Also it didn't have the "Truth" song by Two-Mix, which I came across before hearing about Detective Conan, which I found out about from its relationship to the song.

The reason why AS did not intent to continue was not because it has poor ratings on AS overall, but because the ratings fell on the wrong demographics-- 14-18 years.Samuel Curtis 15:34, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Order of names

Okay, before I start an edit war myself, lets discuss this: Should the characters names be listed with the Japanese original version at the beginning and the english translation thereafter or the other way round? While I prefer the japanese ones (I'm from Germany, so I only knew those before I read the article) I'd still say that this is an article about the English release of the anime/manga, so it should be those names that are mentioned first. -- Genesis 16:08, 18 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As long as they are both there i dont think it matters too much. IanC 19:29, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No matter which is which, the order should be the same so all articles are consistent with one another. WhisperToMe 23:02, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'd suggest both original japanese version (for international people) and english version, if you feel up to the task. :) More complete that way. Raystorm 15:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Move APTX 4869 here?

It is proposed that that article to be merged to here. However, I personally think the content is non sequitur to the type of content here. I propose that it to be merged to Haibara Ai.

Needed comment from Conanian Wikiers.Samuel Curtis 15:34, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that Haibabra Ai/Shiho Miyano should be seperate from APTX 4869. Just because she created the poison doesn't mean that's all that's there to her. This should only be done only if condensation of the number of articles created is the focus. --Magicbulletgirl 20:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)- Magicbulletgirl[reply]

There is much more to Haibara that the APTX-4869.-17:10 - 12 april 2007.

Putting the shows logo(s) in the info box

While its worthwhile having a picture of one of the volumes of the manga in the entry, how about putting a screengrab of the logos for Case Closed and Detective Conan in the info box instead?

Ive already got a screen grab of each, but i (a) dont know what options to choose in the upload file section and (b) thought it would be best to talk about it first.

IanC 18:16, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok i belive ive done it right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Caseclosedandconanlogo.jpg

It would probably need resizing if it was used, what does everyone think? (and is that the right Licensing tag?)

IanC 19:25, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the Japanese logo should be used for DC. Samuel Curtis 07:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Manga Volumes

How many volumes does the manga have? I've got 49, but I'm sure there are more (I get them from France when I go there, hehe). The series is still going on in Japan, right? And there must be special volumes too, I guess. Should we make a mention of it in the article? Raystorm 15:29, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Volume 53 has just published this month in Japan. Samuel Curtis 14:16, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Move of the Talk Page

Appreantly this talk page was not moved when WhisperToMe moved the main page to Case Closed (This is now Talk:Detective Conan (Case Closed)), and we need admin approval to move back. Give your opinions on whether it should be moved. Personally I am for this move to bring conformity. SupportSamuel Curtis 14:12, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Support Of course this has to be moved. This title is totally redundant. The pages name either has to be Detective Conan or Case Closed and as no consensus was reached on that matter, it should be Case Closed for now -- Genesis 09:10, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It must be moved back. The guy who moved it didn't ask us if he could move it. WhisperToMe 21:52, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support --日本穣 Nihonjoe 17:42, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Done Ashibaka tock 00:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Revert War over Finland?

As I can see, there are several people arguing on whether Conan has been aired in Finland. See the following edits:

04:06, 30 April 2006 24.81.113.191 (Finland was first added)

19:41, 1 May 2006 81.17.194.29 (Finland removed)

23:17, 2 May 2006 64.12.117.11 (Finland added)

23:18, 2 May 2006 64.12.117.11 (Finland removed again)

I feel like a revert war in horizon...Samuel Curtis 15:51, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism?

Samuel Curtis deleted this sentence as "rv vandalism."; "Case Closed has strong similarities to Detective Picasso (1983) by Yoshihiko Funazaki, so some people are suspicious of plagiarism." But I do not think it is vandalism, because it is a fact, strongly relevant fact to Case Closed. I understand how fans want to protect the reputation of their idols, but wikipedia is not a place for advertisements but an encyclopaedia, so we should treat facts as facts here. I think his behaviour is reasonable as a fan, but unreasonable as a wikipedian. --1523 08:09, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • OK, even it isn't vandalism, that's original research since this is the first time I read that on anywhere-- and such things should not be on Wikipedia. You can discuss it elsewhere, though. Samuel Curtis 08:59, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, this is not an original research, because this is sourced from a published book. I don't know if you know Japanese, but you'll find this information on ja:名探偵コナン#.E6.BC.AB.E7.94.BB ("漫画がアニメ化されて知名度が上がると、1983年に福音館書店から刊行された児童文学ピカソ君の探偵帳に設定が酷似している事が発覚した。") and on ja:青山剛昌#.E5.82.99.E8.80.83 ("青山の代表作である『名探偵コナン』について、内容が舟崎克彦作の児童文学『ピカソ君の探偵帳』（1983年- 福音館書店）に酷似していることが現在ネットなどで指摘されている（具体的内容については『ピカソ君の探偵帳』の記事を参照のこと）。 これについては青山が剽窃したのだとする説と、どちらの作品も「探偵」の一般的なイメージを使用したため、単に「被った」に過ぎないとする説が提示されている。この件について舟崎氏は小学館に問い合わせてはいるものの、訴訟などを起こすには至っていない。"). It is an obvious fact that there is a plagiarism claim, anyway. This claim is well known in Japan, if you search in Japanese, you'll get about 600 ghits. So this shouldn't be deleted as "vandalism." I understand you love Case Closed, but please don't twist Wikipedia rules for your own interest. --1523 10:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Extraordinary claim need extraordinary proof. I know no Japanese, and no English (and even Chinese, my mother language) material pertaining to this incident has been on the Internet that I cannot prove this as right or wrong, except that Furuzaki made that claim-- but that is of course not enough to put this on Wikipedia. I would ask others to help in this issue-- but, at least in English language unverifiable up to this point. I would ask for neutral help on this issue. In the meantime, can I add a dispute template? --Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK·CONTRIBS 15:42, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Even obvious facts need to be verifiable, especially when the fact isn't as obvious in another language. Also, Wikipedia's own policy from WP:V is verifiability, not truth and that the burden of evidence is on the editor adding the information. It may be true that the allegations were made, but if it can't be verified through a reliable source, then it has little place on Wikipedia. --Farix (Talk) 18:22, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry, but I guess your argument is off the point. I am not insisting that Case Closed plagiarized Picasso, but I am insisting that there is a plagiarism claim. It is off the point if Case Closed really plagiarized Picasso. And I gave the published book and the results of ghits as the sources. Thus I already met my responsibilities to back my claim. Even if you can't read Japanese, that's not my fault. If there's a rule that only English sources can be taken as reliable, please tell me. --1523 19:19, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I collected about this issue.Please read"About Detective Picasso(correct title:Picasso-kun no tantei cho) and Detective Conan".If you can't read Japanese,Please use it.
    1523,you said "This claim is well known in Japan, if you search in Japanese, you'll get about 600 ghits". But this ghits include many waste.Because,"コナン"(conan) "ピカソ"(picasso) "パクリ"(plagiarism) these keywords are very unclear.So this ghit include "Futureboy conan" "Pablo Picasso" "Takeshi Kitano's anyone Picasso(Japanese TV show)" and others.These were 600(392) ghit,but "about Piccaso/Conan incident" is only 22 ghit.
    Sorry my poor English. --08albatross 09:11, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please read this articleOriginal article in Funazaki Yosihiko"Korede iinoka kodomo no hon!!"--Funazaki's Essay"osahou no jikan dosu".
    This Essay is only article about Funazaki mentioned "Case Closed" in "Korede iinoka kodomono hon!!".
    Funazaki said in this article "早速、そのシリーズの一冊目を買って拝読させて戴いたが、主人公の年齢こそ違え、状況設定は極めて似ている。しかしそれが偶然の一致なのかどうかは、十数冊全部を通読チェックしなくてはならない。　私は面倒臭がりの上、全部買って印税をプレゼントするのも業腹なので、とり敢えず知人を介して版元に事情を聞いてもらった。".
    Certain Funazaki made inquired Shogakukan about this issue,but it is not a "plagiarism claim（盗作の訴え）",but an "inquiry circumstance（事情確認）".Funazaki considered "these resemble points has possibility of coincidence".But Funazaki didn't read other "Case closed" series except volume1,Because he thought "it is ridiculous that he gave the royalties from Conan books to Gosho Aoyama". Thus, it is impossible that comprehend "plagiarism claim" of a Funazaki's Article.(I can't write English well.Sorry my poor English)
    【日本語訳】
    「これでいいのか、子どもの本！！」収録・舟崎克彦「お作法の時間どす」原文.
    このエッセイは「これでいいのか、子どもの本！！」内で舟崎が「名探偵コナン」に言及した唯一の記事です。
    舟崎はこの記事の中で"早速、そのシリーズの一冊目を買って拝読させて戴いたが、主人公の年齢こそ違え、状況設定は極めて似ている。しかしそれが偶然の一致なのかどうかは、十数冊全部を通読チェックしなくてはならない。　私は面倒臭がりの上、全部買って印税をプレゼントするのも業腹なので、とり敢えず知人を介して版元に事情を聞いてもらった。"と述べています。
    確かに舟崎は「名探偵コナン」の事について小学館に問い合わせています。 しかしそれはあくまで「盗作の訴え」ではなく「事情確認」です。舟崎は文中で、コナンとピカソ君の類似点が偶然の一致かもしれないことを考慮しています。しかし彼は「私は面倒臭がりの上、全部買って印税をプレゼントするのも業腹」として、「名探偵コナン」第一巻以降のストーリーを確認しようとすらしていません。
    舟崎の文章から判ることは、あくまで『舟崎が小学館に事情を問い合わせた』『小学館からあいまいな返事が返ってきた』『舟崎が小学館への苦言と取れるコメントを残した』という事実のみであり、「お作法の時間どす」の文中の記述から「舟崎による、名探偵コナンと青山剛昌・小学館への盗作の訴え」や「小学館が盗作について少なからず認める」といった事を読み取ることは不可能です。--08albatross 11:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
「チキチキバンバン」は、三十年前に大ヒットした飛行機映画の超大作の
タイトルそのまんまだ。恥を知れ。
皆さん、もっとキチンとしましょうよ。
出版界だけはそういったお作法が守られていると信じて疑わなかったが

http://book.geocities.jp/picasso_conan/paroru.html

「疑わなかった"が"」。これ逆接ですよね。つまり実際には出版界でそういったお作法（人のアイデアを勝手にパクらないというお作法）が守られていないということ、そのことに対する嘆きを綴った文章ですねえ。そもそもこの一文全体が業界で横行するパクリについて述べているのに、その中で「状況設定は極めて似ている」と言っているのを盗作と関係ないと言い張るのは無理がありますね。ところで「小学館が盗作について少なからず認める」というのはどこから出てきた文章ですか? --Kazamatsuri 09:48, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Speak in English when possible, please. This is, after all, English Wikipedia. --Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK·CONTRIBS 10:14, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Funazaki wrote; 

Chitty chitty bang bang is the same title as a great movie that was a big hit in thirteen years ago. For shame!
Everybody, do not do a shameful thing.
I did not doubt publishing companies kept the manners like that, but...

This "but" is an adversative conjunction. After that, he deplored that the plagiarism is rampant around publishing companies. This whole article is about plagiarism, and he stated that "The story resembles closely" in that paragraph, so it is clear that he is talking about plagiarism. Btw, whose claim is that「小学館が盗作について少なからず認める」("Shogakukan admitted plagiarism not a little")? --Kazamatsuri 11:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

うーん…、『「お作法の時間どす」の文中の記述から「舟崎による、名探偵コナンと青山剛昌・小学館への盗作の訴え」や「小学館が盗作について少なからず認める」といった事を読み取ることは不可能です。』、後者の「」内の内容は 

私は面倒臭がりの上、全部買って印税をプレゼントするのも業腹なので、
とり敢えず知人を介して版元に事情を聞いてもらった。
　返事はすぐに来て、
「作者はは舟崎さんの作品を読んでいないかも知れません。
だが、スタッフが『ピカソ君』のシチュエーションを面白がって、
一アイデアとして提案した可能性がないとは云えない」という内容であった。
http://book.geocities.jp/picasso_conan/paroru.html

という記述について言及したものであり、『この記述からは「小学館が盗作について少なからず認め」たという内容ではなく、小学館は「アイデアを拝借した可能性はあるかもしれない」と事実関係をあいまいにぼかした、という事実しか読み取れない』、という事を述べたかっただけで、他に他意はありません。 また、日本版Wikipediaの青山剛昌のページの「ピカソ君」関連の記述をめぐり、ノート:青山剛昌で起きた議論（既に合意が成立）での、とある方の見解を引用します。 

自作が盗作であるかどうかは作家の名誉に関わる重要な問題ですので、
ネット上での風評や読者の間での指摘に留まっているものであれば
（裁判沙汰になったりマスコミに大きく取り上げられたのでもない限り）記載するべきではないと思います。
同じ理由で、この場合「盗作」という表現を使うことも反対です。
もっとも、内容が酷似しているという点や、舟崎氏が小学館に問い合わせたということについては
記載すべきことだと思いますが（ソースの明記が必要だと思われますが）、
それもこの項目ではなく、『名探偵コナン』の項目での記載にとどめるべきではないでしょうか。

確かに舟崎氏は「青山剛昌による、自作品のアイデアの盗用」の主張をにおわせる意図で「お作法の時間どす」の文章を記述したと思います。しかしながら、この問題について百科事典に掲載する上で、作者の主張の本文から読み取れる事実関係、および客観的な事実以外を記載するべきでは無いと思います。

【English】
Hmm...「お作法の時間どす」の文中の記述から「舟崎による、名探偵コナンと青山剛昌・小学館への盗作の訴え」や「小学館が盗作について少なからず認める」といった事を読み取ることは不可能です。(It is impossible that comprehend "plagiarism claim against Shogakukan or Gosho Aoyama" or "Shogakukan admitted plagiarism not a little" from "Osahou no jikan dosu"), The latter sentence was reffered 

(I am an idler,and further I cannot put up with gave the royalties from Conan books to Gosho Aoyama.
So I inquired Shogakukan about this issue.
The reply to my inquiry reached me at once.
"The creator (Gosho Aoyama) might not have read Picasso-kun no tantei cho
But I can't deny the possibility that one of his staff members
was amused at the situation of Detective Picasso and suggested as an idea." )
http://book.geocities.jp/picasso_conan/paroru.html

This sentences comprehend "Shogakukan give a vague answer.They didn't assert that Aoyama didn't cheat Piccaso-kun",and it is impossible that comprehend "Shogakukan admitted plagiarism not a little" in it--I didn't mean anything by it.

I cite a passage in Japanese Wikipedia.It is an opinion atノート:青山剛昌(Talk:Gosho Aoyama) about "Piccaso-kun" issue. 

(It is an important matter about creator's honor that whether own work is plagiarism or innocence.
So I think that if this suspicion remain in a rumor on a net and indication among a reader 
(as far as it became a lawsuit or it was informed greatly by mass communication),
should not mention it in Wikipedia.
For the same reason, I oppose use expression such as "plagiarism" in this case. 
But, I think that these contents are closely resemble and Funasaki inquired to Shogakukan
are should mention in Wikipedia.(but it need specification of a source)

Certainly,Funazaki insinuated "plagiarism by Aoyama" in "osahou no jikan dosu".But,I oppose that mention except "fact(comprehend from their insistence and an objective description)" in Wikipedia.--08albatross 15:32, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Broadcaster in the US

Yes. Samuel Curtis 01:43, 27 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Reorganization of the main article

Today I put the list of DC/CC music into a sub-article list since it is long and tedious-- and not very useful for the causal reader.

In addition to it, I would propose many other things in the main article to be put into sub-articles to shorten the length of the main article, including:

I am tempted to move Characters into a sub-article also, but I think it'd be a bit too controversial, so let us decide on the above two first.

The questions here are:

  1. Should the two sections mentioned above be moved into seperate sub-article (lists)?
  2. If the answer for (1) is Yes, how should we organise these sub-articles?

Samuel Curtis 07:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I ask for the second time: Any opinions? Samuel Curtis 06:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Naming Conventions for Movies

A few days I have just found there's already been an entry for DC/CC Movie 6 (The Phantom of Baker Street), and I am now on that particular article.

The problem is the name of the movie. The exact name of the movie in Japan is of course Meitantei Konan-- Beika Sutorīto no Borei, which would be translated into Detective Conan-- The Phantom of Baker Street, using official translations. However, since the main article is Case Closed, we may also also call it Case Closed-- The Phantom of Baker Street for conformity. So what is suitable for this-- without the series name, use DC as the series name, or use CC as the series name? Samuel Curtis 07:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DC would be best because in the whole world it DC is used except america(Im from France).

Deletion of the Cast Section Plus Character Section Reform

Per Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and Manga#Sections, voice actors are listed with characters and should not be listed seperately.

On the other hand, the character section is also long and unyieldy. According to what I read in different articles in FA-, A- and GA-class, they have different presentations ( Excel Saga completely deleted the character list; Believers and Planetes#Characters list 3-4 of them.

I propose, for the time being:

  1. Merging the Cast section into the Characters section by the use of {{anime voices}} template.
  2. Creation of a List of Case Closed characters which is currently a duplicate of the merged Case Closed#Characters.

Discuss your opinion on this here. If, after a week of this posting, there is no opinion posted, I would implement the said changes.Samuel Curtis 12:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'm new to editting stuff on wikipedia. Was reading through the stuff on the main page, and I agree with the creation of a list. Will probably make the main page look neater.

At the same time, I will like to suggest that some information be included inside. This includes information on Kuroba Toichi and the Hattori family. I also noticed that character pages are not very updated, and will like to volunteer my services to update them. At the same time, I'll like to suggest that Jodie and Akai to be moved under the police section since they're under the FBI, while characters like Yuusaku and Yukiko be moved under a new "Family" section. I find "Other characters" too vague for these recurring characters. This is also in view of the fact that Yukiko has a friendship with Vermouth, and recent revelation that Yuusaku having a rival sort of relationship with the first Kaito Kid. Seeing how involved they are in the series, I don't think that they can be regarded as "other characters".Koura 16:13, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Changed accordingly 12 hours ago; Merely note here to notify editors. Samuel Curtis 05:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Question

In the article it is stated that the copyright issues related to the name have something to do with Conan the Barbarian. This is a widespread rumour, but also IMO misinformation: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=175 Based on this ANN article would it not be correct to presume that the name changes were made because Fox had copyrighted "Detective Conan" in USA? If there are more articles to back this up, or even better, someone could verify the claim by finding out who has the copyright to "Detective Conan" then I think we should change the reason. ~--80.62.165.54 13:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Since this is not a comment, I am open to sign this reply.
A quick search in the USPTO shown no past or present trademark DETECTIVE CONAN.
Of course this is never reliable information since it has never proved; but Fox's name for the series was rumoured as Conan's Capers.Samuel Curtis 14:03, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't you think there should be a trivia branch in this article. Bacause I've seen the Arabic dub of Detective Conan and I think they talked about some cartoon or anime. Shouldn't we write the name at least?

Question regarding DVD's

It was mentioned in the Article that the rights were given back due to low ratings but episodes were still being released on DVD. I am wondering are these episodes subbed only or are they still making dubs for thoese episodes. Its something I have thought about a few times but kept forgeting to ask. --My old username 20:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Opinions Needed: Blanket Renaming of DC/CC Movies

In the exception of Movie 1 (The Time Bombed Skyscraper), which is going to be released by FUNimation soon, I think there is a necessity to add the Detective Conan prefix to all DC/CC movies; since this is the official name. [1] I need opinion to procees. --Samuel Curtis 06:47, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Technicly, those movies don't exist in english, so, if the title has the name "Detective Conan" in it, I agree, if the name is not in the title, it's not part of the title. My oppinion around in other sections is probably worth less then in the One Piece section, as I'm not a frequent editor anywere else. (Justyn 19:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Serialized In

I'm sorry for this newbie question, but: What does "serialized in" mean? thanks, (Me-pawel 03:51, 1 November 2006 (UTC))[reply]

It means circulated in a magazine. E.G. it is seen in Shonen Sunday. WhisperToMe 04:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Where is Eisuke Hondou's page?

I keep on clicking on it and it continues to redirect me to the main article. Was it deleted or something? --Magicbulletgirl 23:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Someone redirected it; someone felt like the character is too minor for his or her own article. WhisperToMe 00:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Eisuke is about equivalent to Harley/Heiji or Serena/Sonoko as a recurring character in the recent manga. He appears frequently and is an active participant in the overarching storyline. So, if anyone besides Conan, Kogoro, or Ran warrants a page of their own, Eisuke does. 65.2.88.118 08:14, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If you think it's necessary, you should write it. --Samuel Curtis-- TALK 08:18, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification of Naming Convention in DC/CC articles--discussion

As discussed in Talk:Case_Closed/Name_dispute_discussions for many, many years, I think the conclusion right now should be:

  • If that name has been Americanized, use the Americanized form.
  • If not, use the Japanese form. If the name of a character that has an American version appeared in the title of an anime episode, etc, and the episode's title has no American version, the characters' names in such title should be kept Japanese.
  • The usage of name has to be uniform.

I hop all editors of all DC/CC related articles should take note of this: especially the third. It is not very sightly to see Jimmy Kudo in one place and Shinichi Kudo in another. --Samuel Curtis-- TALK 08:29, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • 1.)I Can't agree. Americans don't rule world.
  • 3.)Yes, lets move to original names (english may be displayed below)

(Edit made by an anon)

Well, since the English names are also used in editions in Canada and the UK... WhisperToMe 21:53, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Movie 11 Naming

Movie 11 has been named [2]. The name of the movie in kanji is 紺碧の棺, with the 棺 ateyomi'd Jolly Roger. Can anyone make a romaji of this? Thanks! --Samuel Curtis-- TALK 15:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unbalanced article

Way too much info on the anime, and absolutely nothing on the manga that originated it (not even some basic info about how many volumes there currently are, and so on). It's a pity since the manga is really great. Is there no one here that has read the manga and could write about it? Raystorm 17:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Name Change

I don't know why this article was disambig'd with (manga). I have posted a question to the mover's talk asking for a rationale for this move, but I wonder if this move is necessary. --Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK·CONTRIBS 18:59, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New policy on Fair Use on Horizon

Please read every word on WP:AN#Important_notice_regarding_fair_use_that_all_administrators_should_see. Before a fixed policy on fair use images has been adopted, it is not wise to put on any more anime screencaps. --Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK·CONTRIBS 16:25, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal: Categorizing DC/CC Movies

I wonder, given the bulk of uncategorized articles in the CC category are the movie articles, should be categorize the movies also, since they fall into there?

-- also, the movie article need cleanup. Either too much cruft or too short. --Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK·CONTRIBS 19:08, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New Picture

I think the picture for this article can be better and should include about every character in the series. So, I'm changing it.--Kid1412 02:38, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikibreak till end of April

I've be having a Wikibreak till the end of April due to pressures surrounding PhD admissions. I would possibly still be editing but at a lower rate.

May all editors note: Please consider verifiability when writing CC-related articles, esp when it deal with non-content-related material. This is the reason why the CC article, given its length, is still having the "Start" grading. --Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK·CONTRIBS 14:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fate of the Anime Ep Articles

I decided I can't leave Wikipedia; I ended my Wikibreak 2 days ago.

I clarified about the Notability problems around articles that is made for individual articles of anime; the answer is that they are not notable unless proven otherwise. (See WT:Anime#Clarification_of_Notability_of_Individual_Episodes_of_Anime). Thus, I see most articles in would be considered non-notable and would likely to be deleted.

I would like to expand the current List of Case Closed episodes in the way of List of Fullmetal Alchemist episodes in which every episode would came with a short synopsis (OK, due to DC being a mystery series I don't expect the short length of synopsis as in the FMA list) and have a small picture, and the ultimate goal is the removal of individual ep articles-- came to think the ep articles here are even more detailed than some more well-known DC fansites, one can see we have a lot to cut.

But since I don't own any articles, I need input. --Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK·CONTRIBS 11:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am the person who converted most of the list to the form it currently is in. I would suggest that you try converting say maybe the first 10-20 of them into that format (making sure to save a backup on your computer of any articles you de-reference/delete) and then ask people then. I am personally open to the idea, although I just don't have the time or the patience to do it. KumoriKage 07:07, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm willing to do some of the DC anime episodes, reformatting and such, but I don't have the screenshot. I'll start at the beginning, and go on as I download more episodes. (Also, I'm not exactly sure how to change the tables, so it may take a while to get started, please bear with me.) <-Winged-> 00:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's well-known as detective conan, not case closed.

Case Closed"the dubbed version" stopped airing in america and had about 50 episodes. while the original"japanese" is still airing and it reached like 467 episodes.

It should be edited to "Detective Conan" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.226.241.235 (talk) 13:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Requested move

Case Closed → Detective Conan — Current name is only an Anglo-American commercial name of the series, fans self-identify the series by the proposed name, which has been used to refer the series since 1996 and is continually used in most places of the world; "Case Closed" is only refer specifically to the American adaptation. Also, the usage of the name "Case Closed" would cause name consistency confusions for articles in which the American version has not been released (or even licensed), e.g. Detective Conan: The Phantom of Baker Street.

Other articles invluved in the move:

Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK·CONTRIBS 14:54, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this is not a vote; comments must include reasons to carry weight.
  • Oppose per the comments during the previous RFC over the naming dispute. The consensus conclusion then was to name the article as Case Closed. Nothing has changed with the franchise recondition since the last debate and this move is only a point of pride for a small group of fans. And to state that "fans self-identify the series" as Detective Conan is original research and entirely unverifiable. Especially in the face of a Google Test still shows that Case Closed is still it much wider use then Detective Conan on English language pages by a nearly 2:1 margin. TheFarix 15:58, 10 April 2007
    • You are misusing the original research rule. Doing original research to determine notability is not prohibited; otherwise your Google test would also be prohibited as original research. Ken Arromdee 14:07, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • How is a properly constructed Google test prohibited as original research? Google tests are often used to help determine which term or title is be more recognizable. --Farix (Talk) 14:22, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • Sorry, I posted that in reply to the wrong comment. A Google test is not prohibited as original research. *By your reasoning* (which is false), a Google test would be prohibited as original research. You're claiming that original research applies to determining something's notability. If this is really true, then a Google test to determine notability would be prohibited. It isn't true. Original research applies to the content of articles. Decisions made about articles aren't subject to the original research rule. If they were, not only would this lead to ridiculous results like not allowing Google tests, you'd get in an infinite loop: you need a source, and you can't conclude on your own that the source is reliable, so you need to find that conclusion in another source, which you also can't conclude is reliable so you need to find.... Ken Arromdee 06:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
          • Your Google test is broken anyway. Try these: [3][4] There is a clear majority for Detective Conan.
  • Oppose Your suggestions have no impact on the American market. Since Wikipedia is divided up according to language this is the English version Case Closed should remain. In order to change the name to Detective Conan, the target audience would be changed entirely from the English market to a non-English market. Why should Case Closed become Detective Conan when you would only benefit those that refuse to acknowledge the English version? In keeping "Case Closed" on the English page of Wikipedia, Funimation receives the credit it deserves for picking up the license of Detective Conan. If one change were to be made to Case Closed, then you would also have to make the argument to change the names "Richard Moore" to "Kogoro Moori" and "Rachel" to "Ran." Although Detective Conan far outnumbers Case Closed in Episodes, the greater portion of people that were introduced to Detective Conan through the English version do not know what "Detective Conan" is, let alone realize there has been a name change. Please see the previous opposition for the statement referencing Google searches for "Detective Conan" and "Case Closed" Cadwal 16:23, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -The most dominant English language name of it is "Case Closed", and the English name trumps all for English Wikipedia. Yes, many english speakers live outside the US, but the majority of the world's english speakers aren't localized entirely in the Phillipines. (Also, Canada isn't part of the US, just for reference) Bladestorm 14:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. In Japan it is known as "Detective Conan". Japan is the country that produces Detective Conan. Thus, we must follow the Japanese name. If in Italy for example it was named something else, should we change the name??!! Of course not. Thus, not only because English Speakers prefer it this way we must follow their wish. The English name is only a copy of the original name, thus the original name is the one that should be used. A J Damen 18:39, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The official original and still used name is Detective Conan. While Wikipedia ia primarily English, the English episodes licensed and released by FUNimation are a small subset of the actual episodes released. Also, Detective Conan is still an ongoing series in its originating country of Japan, thus lending credibility that this name is durable. Then entire set of episodes is officially released under the name Detective Conan whereas the subset of episodes released by FUNimation are released as "Case Closed". In the proper relationship of multiple releases and retitlings, it would be more proper to have a Detective Conan entry in Wikipedia with a prominent mention on that page that episodes were translated and re-released under the name "Cased Closed" in the North American market and under Detective Conan in other markets. AnimeJanai 02:27, 11 April 2007 (UTC)— AnimeJanai (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. .[reply]
  • Support. Case Closed essentially refers to a completely different series, since most of the materials have not been released in the US market. I find the confusion argument (eg regarding unreleased material) quite compelling. The argument that "Case Closed is the "English" name and this is English Wikipedia" is erroneous; that's specifically the name in some markets, and the English wikipedia serves other English-speaking markets (Australia) where "Detective Conan" is the official name. In short, these articles should be renamed "Detective Conan" and a separate, shorter article should be created to cover the separate, shorter, "Case Closed" series. Nandesuka 14:30, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • That is a very nice idea that satisfies both sides. Thank you for posting it. A J Damen 15:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Can you please verify that the name is "Detective Conan" in Canada and the UK? (You're claiming that "Case Closed" is US-only) Bladestorm 14:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • I did misspeak (I corrected canada/uk to Australia). Nevertheless, the point stands that "Case Closed" is only used in some English speaking markets, not all. Furthermore, "Detective Conan" products are sold in both the UK and in Canada (albeit as imports) which I think is further evidence that it's the more common name (are any "Case Closed" items sold in Australia or New Zealand?) I think that arguments such as "Well, this is the name in 51% of the markets around the world" is a fairly flimsy board to stand on given that there are other serious concerns (specifically, the issue of inaccuracy with respect to material not released outside of Japan yet, of which there is a huge amount) Nandesuka 14:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • Imports are hardly relevant. I can import outright japanese (or korean, etc) copies of many things into Canada, but that won't make them the "official" versions for Canada. It's aired as Case Closed in Canada, and available as "Case Closed" as mangas in the UK. (not to mention available as "Case Closed" as imports in the UK if you do think imports count) Bladestorm 16:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Incidentally, for what it's worth, I think it's entirely acceptable to split it into two separate articles, to reflect the significant difference between the two franchises (so long as they're linked to eachother, of course). Bladestorm 16:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support 1. Detective Conan is the original name, translated from Japanese.
  • 2. Case Closed is significantly different to the original series. It should be a separate article or section in the main article.
  • 3. Similar cases: Sailor Moon and Cardcaptor Sakura. In both articles original names are used, and in the CCS article the title is "CardCaptor Sakura", not "Cardcaptors" (the name of the US version). Again, there are significant differences between the original and US versions.
  • 4. Dropping of "Conan" from the title was done for purely speculative legal reasons.
  • 5. The origin of the series is Japan. The original author's choices should be respected and preferred if possible.
  • 6. Consider cases such as Frankenstein, where the name now often refers to the monster from the novel, but (rightly) Wikipedia defaults to the correct usage. Popularity is not always the most important issue.
  • 7. It is not at all clear that Case Closed is actually more popular anyway, and it is likely impossible to prove one way or another.
  • 8. Case Closed is a name invented due to a potential legal issue by a third party after Detective Conan had become known to fans of the genera.
  • 9. Much of the content of the articles does not even apply to Case Closed, due to changes made to the US version and the fact that it has not caught up with the original Japanese series yet.
  • 10. There is a greater volume of material available in English under the Detective Conan name, thanks to fansubbers/scanlators. The 10th movie is available on fansub, while under the Case Closed name they are only on movie 3.
  • 11. The argument over naming in the UK is not entirely useful in this debate. In the UK, both the US and Japanese versions are imports, and both are available. Mojo-chan 17:31, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ssible

  • Support. Case closed is used only in the U.S afaik. Without a redirect I would have never found this article. Use the original japanese name and then comment variations of the title in the English-speaking world in the article if you wish. As it is done in the Sailor Moon articles. Raystorm 17:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment-For reference, that's factually inaccurate. It's "Case Closed" in Canada, and mangas are sold as "Case Closed" in the UK. Both of those regions aren't in the US. Bladestorm 17:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • The point about using original names, such as with Sailor Moon, and then listing English variations is valid though.
  • Support' "Detective Conan" represents both the original title (translated), and the fan community. It also fits the intent of the original author of the series (which should be the primary criterion). The name of the series is Meitantei Conan. We just call it something different in the U.S. (which is not the only country that speaks english). Izuko 21:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment-Yet again, while although everyone is entitled to their opinions, could you please limit your statements to the factually accurate? If your reason is that "We just call it something different in the U.S. (which is not the only country that speaks english)", then you are irrefutably wrong. It isn't just the US. Bladestorm 22:11, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Then I won't hold your opinion against you. But will you please limit your comments to what I actually wrote, not what you wish to argue against? Even a cursory glance at my sentence can tell there's a big difference between "we just call it something different in the US" and "we call it something different, just in the US," or even "only we call it something different in the US." I don't have the patience to defend statements I didn't make. Izuko 12:12, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Names of articles should not cater to otakus, and English speakers in WP:NC does mean the Anglosphere, not the entire world. So, the name more used to the non-otaku-- which is the official name-- should prevail. And given Canada, the UK and the US already occupied a great deal of the anglosphere...--Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK·CONTRIBS 22:32, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • It`s not entirely clear that Case Closed is more common in the "Anglosphere". Can you produce any hard sales or download figures to show that more copies of Case Closed have been sold than fansubbed Detective Conan videos downloaded or traded? As I have said before, distribution in the UK is VERY limited, and I would say that the majority of fans here know the series as Detective Conan. The only people I know who have bought the DVDs are people who were already fans and who wanted to just get them for the Japanese language tracks. Please limit your arguments to factually provable points, rather than making assumptions. Mojo-chan 12:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Is "Case Closed" the most prolific name in English? I did a quick google search and "Detective Conan" appeared on sites like tv.com. But more importantly, I don't think it's fair to insist on using Case Closed just because that's the term used by the US distributors/whatever. It's the translation of the Japanese - if people search for Case Closed they will get redirected to the article. Seems fair to me. John Smith's 23:14, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Not only is "Detective Conan" the name chosen by the manga-ka (alright, it was "Meitantei Conan", but that's not the point) and I believe that should be respected above all; but the policies disagree with me... to some degree. Anyway, it was brought up that Google gets more hits for "Case Closed" then for "Detective Conan": this is untrue.

"Case Closed" -wikipedia +anime: 397,000[7]

"Detective Conan" -Wikipedia +anime: 579,000[8]

"Case Closed" -Wikipedia +manga: 315,000 [9]

"Detective Conan" -Wikipedia +manga: 511,000 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Detective+Conan%22+-wikipedia+%2Bmanga

These simple results indicate that "Detective Conan is the more prolific term." (Justyn 02:08, 12 April 2007 (UTC))[reply]

The problem with your tests are that they are not restricted to English language pages, which will skew the results. The tests I presented do restricted the search to just the English language pages so the result are fare more accurate. --Farix (Talk) 03:47, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I looked through the results of each search to page twenty (you are free to search even further if you wish so) and I found what percentage of the hits are not related to the subject in question, or in another language:
"Case Closed" -wikipedia +anime: 1% = 2
"Detective Conan" -Wikipedia +anime: 3% = 6
"Case Closed" -Wikipedia +manga: 1% =2
"Detective Conan" -Wikipedia +manga: 5.5% = 11
If the numbers would continue throughout the rest of the search, then the results would be reduced by just over 1/20th, a few thousand, it does not upset the 30+% lead that the original name has. And "are far more accurate": have you actualy looked through your results? (Justyn 08:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC))[reply]
Actually, wikipolicy DOES support your statement. It's just that there are a few that can be selected. Those who hammer out the NAME policy are misapplying it, from what I tell. Yes, it says foreign words should be translated. It does not say they should be substituted. However, the policy on book names state that if there's not a clear consensus (and with dueling googles that go either way, I can pretty much say there's not), you go with the title by which it first became well known in the west. And that would be Detective Conan. Izuko 12:20, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Yes, some people are giving silly reasons, but there are legitimate ones. The biggest is that Case Closed simply doesn't apply to the whole series; there are only around 50 episodes of Case Closed. Which means that we are (already!) calling the movies, games, etc. Detective Conan anyway if they haven't been translated. It also means that the article about Case Closed says a whole lot of things that aren't true of Case Closed, only of Detective Conan. It isn't true that Case Closed is published in Shonen Sunday since 1994. It isn't true that a tenth movie of Case Closed has been released, or that a character named Korn appears in episode 425 of the Case Closed series, etc. (Actually, we should have 'list of Case Closed characters' and 'list of Detective Conan characters not in Case Closed' if we want to be completely accurate.) These only make sense as Detective Conan. (And by the way, if Google tests show hundreds of thousands of references for each, it really doesn't matter if one has more than another. Google tests aren't useful down to that level of detail.) Ken Arromdee 06:25, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • There is a simple solution, we just do what we do for video games. For video games made by Japanese companies, we list them under their Japanese name until they get an English name. For example, the first Fire Emblem game on the Wii is at Fire Emblem: Akatsuki no megami (it's Japanese name) but will be moved once Nintendo officially announces the English name. So for stuff that hasn't been translated to the English name yet, use the Japanese name. TJ Spyke 06:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is a problem with that: the video games are made by and translated by, in many cases, the same company: they know exactly what the official canon name always was, and not only that, they have total ownership of the property that is in question.
Manga, on the other hand, are typically never owned by the translation company; the company usualy owns only the distribution rights of said property. Not only that, but a manga series tends to pick up an english speaking fanbase long before it translation (if that ever occurs at all) through scanlations. (Justyn 08:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC))[reply]
  • Support The title Detective Conan is the variation most commonly used in English-language resources, materials and communities around the entire world, and has also been used as the title to the series's widely-broadcast English-language TV airing across Animax's networks worldwide. ···巌流? · Talk to Ganryuu 09:19, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Some people have been saying that Case Closed and Detective Conan are different things - however, I don't really agree. They are essentially the same anime/manga, just with different names. However, I support the move, mainly because the creator of Detective Conan (or Case Closed, however you want to say it) wanted it to be named Detective Conan (or Meitantei Conan, but it's basically the same) and not Case Closed. Like people have mentioned up above, the only reason why it's even called Case Closed in some English-speaking countries is because of legal reasons. Also, the above Google tests can be manipulated to show what you want them to show, depending on exactly what you type in, so I'm not sure whether they should count...?
Also, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, isn't it? The main point should to be to inform, clearly and articulately, accurate information about the anime/manga Detective Conan. Although more people may (or may not, the point is yet to be accurately and definitely concluded) know the series as 'Case Closed,' our goal should be to present the original, and therefore more accurate, series. Since Detective Conan was originally created in Japan, shouldn't we stick to the most original? Then the fans who know the series as Case Closed can find out more about the authentic thing. --<-Winged-> 01:53, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

To Piotrus: It is also the official name for Canada and the UK.--Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK·CONTRIBS 16:31, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • As Samuel pointed out, it doesn't matter by what title it is known by in other countries where the English language is not a primary language. Also the naming convention guidelines instructed us that we should use the name that would be most commonly recognized by English language readers (as in people whose primary language is English and not as a secondary language). The general English language population will know of the work as Case Closed. On the other hand, its English language fanbases and English language anime fans also know it as Detective Conan. But in either case, Case Closed would be the more recognized title. You can largely guarantee that readers who know it as Detective Conan will also know it as Case Closed. However the opposite is not true. This shouldn't be a matter of "preference". --Farix (Talk) 18:46, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I disagree. I am British, but did not know of the Case Closed name until I came to Wikipedia. CC is not widely available in the UK, outside of web shops like Amazon and some larger stores in London or other major cities. If I were looking for DVDs on Amazon, I would search for Detective Conan by default. Also, it is not clear that Case Closed is more common. For example, Google returns about the same number of results for Case Closed as Detective Conan, but most of the former's results are not relating to the show. Clearly, on the internet at least, Detective Conan is far more common. If you are talking fan base, can you produce hard numbers to show that Case Closed has a larger English language fan base than Detective Conan? It is entirely possible that more native English speakers know it as Detective Conan thanks to years of fan translations, fan sites, imports etc.Mojo-chan 17:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • To A J Damen: As I have said, what it is known by in a non-English language country is irrelevant to the English language Wikipedia. WP:NAME specifically tells us to use the English title unless the native title is more widely recognized by English language readers. And I've already gave the case as they why Case Closed would be more recognized then Detective Conan. --Farix (Talk) 18:51, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • To Faris: I respect your opinion. However, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that everybody uses. I am pretty sure that most english speakers also recognize the name Detective Conan. If we wanna talk only about Case Closed, we would be only covering up to 80 episodes that were dubbed. While Conan now exceeded 400 episodes. Furthermore, English is not any more a local language. It is a worldwide language that everybody uses. Thus, since most of the readers and viewers outside the US recognize the name Detective Conan as more familiar it makes more sense to me we should go with it. A J Damen 86.108.116.204 20:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    The title used in other languages is irrelevant to the title of this article. And the English language side of Wikipedia has an English language focus (duh!). The majority of Wikipedia readers that use the English language as their primary language live in the US, Canada, the UK, and Australia, the title used in most of these countries would be the determining factor. Also there is no evidence that most English speakers would know the work as Detective Conan but it's not far fetched to reason that most English speakers would know the work as Case Closed as that is the name give by the licensed English language distributors/publishers in the US, Canada, and the UK. The number of episodes that were dubbed into English is also irrelevant as the manga is still published in English under the title Case Closed.
    • The manga (note "manga", not comic - again showing the acknowledged Japanese origin of the series) has not caught up with the Japanese original either. The majority of English language material available is still under the title Detective Conan.
    As I said before, the naming conventions instruct us to use the name that is most recognize by English language readers, not by what is preferred by most editors or by the title that is most recognized by non-English language readers. You rally can't make a case that Detective Conan is the more recognized title without drawing in its usage in other language, which I already pointed out was irrelevant.
    • You really can't make the case that Case Closed is the more recognised title without drawing on its usage in a commercial, and somewhat unrelated due to editing, translation.
    And finally, keeping the article under its current location at Case Closed would not limit the article to just the English language translation of the work. Such an argument is a baseless strawman and completely absurd on its face. Banner of the Stars is no more limited to just the English language translation as it would if it was under the Japanese title Seikai no Senki. --Farix (Talk) 01:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Considering how much difference there is, and how much material only related to Detective Conan and (as yet) cannot be said to relate to Case Closed, I think in this case a split or reduction of Case Closed to a subsection is well justified. Movies beyond what have been commercially translated are mentioned already, and in future I would hope epiosode guides, detailed plot information and series conclusion information will be added. All these things will differ significantly between versions.
  • To Faris: I am going to ignore the rude language you are using to suppress the other side of the argument. I still see that your side of the argument is the weak one. The name is not a subjective issue. This is an encyclopedia. It is not true at all that most of the English language readers recognize the name "Case Closed" more than "Detective Conan". Anybody Interested in the anime is likely to watch the Japaneses episodes subbed by fan groups. All the movies are also subbed under the name "Detective Conan". This applies too to the Manga readers. Anyone who reads the Manga is likely to know the name Detective Conan. The name "Case Closed" will still be directed to the original name... thus believe me nobody will get lost. I also believe that the characters' names should change to match the Japanese names. Finally, English speakers are not only those who live in the States. All those who speak English as thier first or second language are likely to watch the Japanese subs of Detective Conan simply because they don't understand Japanese. Thus their opinion matters the same as those who live in the States. A J Damen 08:04, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    What evidence do you have that the work is more recognizable by Detective Conan then Case Closed to the English language readers? All evidence points to the exact opposite. I also don't see how that only a small number of episodes were dubbed into English does makes Detective Conan any more recognizable in the English language markets. The fact that they were commercially released under the title Case Closed does make that tile more recognizable. And as I've already pointed out, Case Closed is the title used in all major English language markets (US, Canada, and UK). The only major English language market that is left out is Australia. So how how can a title that is unused in any English language market become more recognizable? --Farix (Talk) 14:31, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
To Nandesuka: The fact that the anime version of the series is aired on YTV as Case Closed and the manga is published by a UK publisher as Case Closed proved it is the official name of the series in these markets. On another point, the changes FUNi etc made to the series is mainly cosmetic; ie names. There is a mild but not exactly important change in plot-- and I don't think this is the material for another article. --Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK·CONTRIBS 14:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • To User:Dima Damen: Seeing as how this isn't a vote, do you have a policy to cite that supports your position? Something stronger than, "I know it as Detective Conan and would prefer that. It makes more sense to me"? Bladestorm 16:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • To Mojo-chan
    1. The matter is to determine which title is the more recognizable among English language readers. Whether it is the official Japanese translation of the title doesn't mean it is automatically the most recognized title.
    • Actually, that is not the sole criteria, especially since no-one has been able to prove one way or another which is more popular. Detective Conan is used in English language TV broadcasts around the world on the Animax network. There is a huge volume of fansubbed and fan produced material using that name. On the other hand, Case Closed has an almost non-existant distribution in the UK, and it is arguable many of the people buying the DVDs already know the show under the Detective Conan name. After all, at least here in major shops like HMV, it is always placed with the other anime stuff, not with the kids stuff. So, I'd say if we are going on that criteria alone, it should be Detective Conan, but no-one can prove the point either way.Mojo-chan 12:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    1. The English translation is no different then the original translation other then the names and title have been changed and that only 50 episodes were translated.
    • If they have been changed, it's not a translation. A translation is where you take words in one language and translate them into words with the same meaning in another, not just randomly change them for copyright reasons.Mojo-chan 12:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Sailor Moon's article is titled Sailor Moon instead of Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon. The use of the character names is a different matter to debate. Also Cardcaptors is a red hearing as it was also commercially released in English under the title Cardcaptor Sakura as a subtitle only DVD and the manga translation was released under the same name. It is also verifiable that the sub-only DVD outsold the dubbed version by leaps and bounds. AFAIK, there is no commercial English translation using the name Detective Conan.
    1. Whether the name was changed because of speculative legal reasons is not a factor in this debate.
    1. WP:NAME tells us to use the title that is most recognized by English language readers, but not the one preferred by the author. This isn't the first case where the author's preferred was different from the one used by the English language release.
    1. Your Frankenstein example is moot as the article located there is about the book, not a character within the book.
    • Except that the most common useage of the word is about the character. Surely then, the article should be about the character or at least have a disambig. page?Mojo-chan 12:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    1. This isn't a popularity contest, it is about which name is more recognizable in English. So far, the supporters for Detective Conan haven't presented a case to support their side other then their on perspectives.
    • Isn't "more recognisable" a popularity contest? You have not presented a case for your assertion, where as I have made my case on numerous occasions. Please read my other comments.Mojo-chan 12:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    1. See my response to #4 as you are simply restated it.
    2. See my response to #2 as you are simply restated it.
    3. But does that mean that this makes Detective Conan more recognizable to English readers? By my reading of WP:NC-BK, these should be discounted as they are the least authoritative in determining the best title and the least verifiable.
    • I'd say they are more varifiable than Case Closed sales figures, which AFAIK are secret. Also, I would not discount the authority of fan material, especially since it was produced before the commercial material, is far more comprehensive and covers a far greater amount of the original work. I would say that the commercial work is probably less reliable, since it makes changes based on perceived US attitudes to things like violence and murder, is re-worked for US audience tastes and is probably unlikely to cover all the avail material. I really doubt that all 500 episodes, 10 movies and countless manga books will be commercially translated. They are not commercially broadcast, and the shear cost of the DVDs makes it unlikely anyone will want to buy all of them. Also, if you check Amazon.co.uk, you will find that many of them are now "deleted" (i.e. no new copies available).Mojo-chan 12:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    1. But the commercial English language release in the UK is still under the title Case Closed giving credence that it is more recognizable under that name.
    --Farix (Talk) 18:12, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Considering how many tmes you like to refer to names being the most recognizeable, I'd like to point you to Wikipedia:Naming conflict#Ambiguity persists, which says that you hold a vote and determine recognizeability by seeing what each voter most easily recognizes--and that the result may often be the same as the result of a Google test--but isn't always. Ken Arromdee 06:54, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Short summary of compelling arguments so far.
    1. Case Closed is the name used for commercial releases in at least the US, Canada and UK
    2. There are no sales figures or clear indication of the relative popularity of commercial/fansubbed material
    3. Google searches can be manipulated to produce results in favor of either title
    4. Wikipedia does allow for votes in cases like this, but this is not a desireable solution
  • If possible, some debate on points other than perceived relative popularity would be useful, as it seems that debate is un-proveable and un-winnable by either side. Mojo-chan 12:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • One more point in favour: Case Closed is not as unique as Detective Conan. There is a movie called Case Closed [10] and a book. This could/should in future lead to problems when there are articles on these things. Mojo-chan 12:37, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but I had to strike the google search point from the summary. Correct google searches absolutely endorse "Case Closed". You need to restrict the searches to English language, per "All domains, but only English language" (In the 'naming conventions' page). Google searches, when done according to instructions, support "Case Closed", and doesn't produce any results in favour of "Detective Conan". Bladestorm 14:56, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • We are not going to reach a solution like this. Every side has his own point of view and each represented strong points of argument. I suggest we try rather than doing the support-oppose poll, to start thinking about a solution that satisfies both sides. Tx. A J Damen 17:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is the English Wikipedia. Shouldn't it honestly be enough that because this is the English wikipedia and the name "Case Closed" is the commercial name in the US, UK, and Canada? Sure a lot of other countries have English speakers in them, some nations consider English to be the second language (ie: Phillipines), but these are nations where English is not the primary language (ie: Phillipines - Filipino). In the past 3 months I have looked for anything regarding the Phillipine Detective Conan Products, and I can't find an ounce. Why should we use the Phillipines version as a valid argument if the products are impossible to find? Regardless of that argument... just go to common sites for purchasing English products and look at the product pool for "Case Closed" and "Detective Conan." It's clear the common naming convention on English sites is "Case Closed" not "Detective Conan." Cadwal 18:43, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative to outright move

I don't want to create another real poll while there's still one ongoing, but I just wanted an informal gauge of how many people might support something:
Having two articles. One for Detective Conan, in its entirety. One for Case Closed; the english adaptation of it. (Separating content between the two as appropriate)
Obviously there's a real poll and a real discussion going on, so I'm not looking for a fleshed-out discussion here, just a quick gauge. So, please no arguments on this one; I just want to see if this is worth pursuing at all. Yay or Nay. Bladestorm 22:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Not really, compared to some articles I've seen, some have a section specifically for differences between the english and the japanese versions. Here, you sort of have to read everything and pick things out. --<-Winged-> 02:07, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

NayThis is the English Wikipedia and as such we should adhere to the US, UK, and Canadian market naming conventions. Cadwal 18:33, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Nay Even though the Case Closed anime is significantly behind, it is technically, still same thing as the Detective Conan anime. I think we should add a section instead, specifically made to specify the differences between the Japanese and the English. --<-Winged-> 02:07, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yay. I agree with what Winged said. This is a nice idea. Making a small section named "Case Closed" under the main article "Detective Conan" would be brilliant. A J Damen 09:36, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

case closed

this is the ENGLISH wiki not the japanese wiki... so leave it case closed, thats my. oppinionDark reaper6789 17:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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