Talk:Kamila Valieva

Disqualification

@Ілля Криворучко: The medals might not be officially reallocated, but she is clearly and unambiguously disqualified from the 2022 Olympics and Europeans, per the official ruling. The CAS has binding jurisdiction granted by the IOC over itself when it comes to this matter and consequently, even if the team medal is not reallocated, there is no way she is going to receive a medal in those events no matter what the official reallocation barring a successful appeal. Please defer to what WP:SECONDARY sources say; they agree unanimously that she is disqualified. Jasper Deng (talk) 20:21, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

"The consequences linked to the retroactive disqualification of Ms Valieva from past events, including from the Olympic Winter Games Beijing 2022, were not within the scope of this arbitration procedure and will have to be examined by the sports organisations concerned", - as it said in the CAS decision. According to this quote, I was reverting all edits about medals before IOC and ISU decide this question. But I don't want to take part in the edit war, so you may make conclusions for yourself. Secondary sources are pointing the same as I say. "A decision on the medal allocation will come from the ISU and IOC. The ISU said it will have a statement Tuesday on the implications of the CAS decision", - Washington Post. Ілля Криворучко (talk) 20:41, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

@Ілля Криворучко: You completely glossed over my point. The consequences of the disqualification are separate from the disqualification itself. In theory we should be showing her as both disqualified and as holding the team medal, but as secondary sources agree that this is going to almost surely mean the stripping of the gold medal, and there is no plausible way she will get any medal, it would be WP:UNDUE weight.--Jasper Deng (talk) 20:44, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

But in reality we shouldn't do any edits till tomorrow, when ISU will have a statement on the implications of CAS decision. I consider that the edits must be proved on the official decisions and their mention in secondary sources, so we don't have to do any edits. Currently the secondary sources claim that the official decision of Kamila's medals allocation must be solved by IOC and ISU. Ілля Криворучко (talk) 20:50, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

@Ілля Криворучко: You're not listening. I never disputed that medal allocation must wait; in fact, I have edited the European Championships article just now to show the original allocation minus Valieva. What secondary sources agree on, such as those cited in the article, is that she is disqualified, full stop. Disqualified. That means independent of the reallocation, she is not getting a medal. That is all the article currently reflects.--Jasper Deng (talk) 20:52, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your point of view. Ілля Криворучко (talk) 21:00, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

She hasn't had her medal removed, so listed disqualified instead of the medal is incorrect until sources confirm if her medal has been removed. The infobox is using a medal template, and she is still the holder of that medal. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:36, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

@Joseph2302: She is, however, disqualified. Full stop. The only alternative that I might support would be to have both the medal and the DQ listed (update: since the ruling explicitly excludes her from medal eligibility, I now cannot support even that), but CAS's ruling to disqualify is binding on the IOC and must be respected. By the way, CAS does have the authority to revoke medals. They just chose to delegate that decision in this situation.--Jasper Deng (talk) 22:56, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I recommend the articles about 2022 European Figure Skating Championships and 2022 Winter Olympics (figure skating team) to be protected from edits as it was made for Kamila Valieva. I think that it will be the best way for avoiding the war between editors. Ілля Криворучко (talk) 01:19, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Ілля Криворучко: No, we will not protect pages because it's "the right version".--Jasper Deng (talk) 01:46, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks!! Ілля Криворучко (talk) 01:53, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Joseph2302 and Bgsu98: I should also note that the CAS ruling includes "• All competitive results of Ms Valieva from 25 December 2021 are disqualified, with all the resulting consequences (including forfeiture of any titles, awards, medals, profits, prizes, and appearance money)." This means that while final medals are not allocated, CAS is pretty explicitly stripping her medal specifically.--Jasper Deng (talk) 02:08, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Also, we should be adding in that she's also disqualified from the singles event; disqualified does not just mean kicked off the podium.--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:28, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

ISU has officially disqualified her. For the Europeans, since that's under just ISU purview and not IOC, this means her medal there is definitively stripped.--Jasper Deng (talk) 10:16, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, they have now confirmed medals will be stripped [1], so now seems fine to me to list as disqualified with no medals showing. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:41, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Joseph2302: For what it's worth, my original edit was still correct even under that circumstance because you're completely wrong that CAS cannot strip medals. If you read list of stripped Olympic medals, you'll find numerous cases where they did. Thus, even though IOC hasn't officially ratified ISU's new ranking, Valieva specifically (as opposed to her teammates) remains stripped under all possible outcomes besides a successful appeal (highly unlikely).--Jasper Deng (talk) 20:25, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Figure skating jargon?

" ... with a positive GOE"? What does that mean?

Figure skating is followed by many casual fans, who surely have no more idea than I do what that acronym signifies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.49.30.176 (talk) 05:45, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

This is grade of execution, a largely subjective but partially objective assessment of how well a given technical element was done. I think it should be linked to glossary of figure skating#grade of execution once the protection is up.--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:04, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Remove disputed template

please remove the disputed template from the top of the article. I was the one that added it due to the debate at #Disqualification, which has now been resolved by future sourcing. Thus, the disputed template is no longer appropriate. Joseph2302 (talk) 23:20, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 03:20, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Protected edit request 1 February 2024

In line with Joseph's request above, please add the following under {{MedalCompetition|[[Winter Olympic Games|Olympic Games]]}}:
{{MedalDisqualified|2022 Beijing|[[Figure skating at the 2022 Winter Olympics – Women's singles| Women's singles]]}}

The CAS (ruling) and ISU (statement) have both officially disqualified her from the singles event as well. This is an addition, not a replacement, because she did not medal in the original competition either. I can find no evidence that the usage of {{Medal|Disqualified}} is limited only to former medalists. Jasper Deng (talk) 06:43, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 03:20, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

I later reverted this per the below request. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:33, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Please adjust the infobox

• What I think should be changed: Please remove "Disqualified | 2022 Beijing | Women's singles" from the infobox.
• Why it should be changed: Valieva never medaled in women's singles at the Olympics, so it's impossible for her "medal" to be disqualified.
• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): Compare to the pre-Jan 29 version of the infobox: permalink. See also contemporaneous coverage: Russian teen skater Kamila Valieva takes fourth place in women's figure skating competition, CBS News.

K.e.coffman (talk) 12:26, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:33, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

References

I concur with this change. She didn't have a medal to lose, so a 4th place converted to a disqualification is not needed in the infobox. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:32, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

• Hi @Pppery: thank you for responding so quickly, but it appears that the wrong line was edited here: diff.

• this one should be restored: {{Medal|Disqualified|[[2022 European Figure Skating Championships|2022 Tallinn]]|Women's singles}}, as this is the medal that was disqualified (European championship);
• this one should be removed, from the Beijing Olympics singles event: {{Medal|Disqualified|2022 Beijing|[[Figure skating at the 2022 Winter Olympics – Women's singles| Women's singles]]}}

--K.e.coffman (talk) 18:41, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:43, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Ref error

@Pusf.smbd: please provide a citation for the ref you named ":4". -- Fyrael (talk) 22:54, 1 August 2024 (UTC)