Wikipedia talk:Vital articles

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Purpose of this list

The first sentence in the article says "This is a list of basic subjects for which Wikipedia should have a corresponding high-quality article, and ideally a featured article". If that is the main goal, wouldn't it be best to delete all the featured articles (and maybe the good articles) from the list? That way there would be room for more topics, and the goal of guiding people to "subjects that need high-quality articles" could be fulfilled better. I think there is no way we'll ever agree about which are the 1000 "most important" topics in a general sense, as seems to be the problem in some of the discussions above. But we can perhaps agree on 1000 topics that are "pretty important" and deserving good/featured articles, and which would be removed from the list as soon as they achieve that status. (Note: the articles that are removed due to being featured/good could be moved to a separate list, in case someone needs them to "track progress".) --Itub 06:05, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great idea! StAnselm 06:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You know that GA and FA aren't permanent and some articles will miss this position.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 12:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

True, but at the moment we're just going in circles. There's a constant cycle of articles being added and deleted from this list. StAnselm 12:38, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, Wikipedia isn't paper, if we need more room for articles we can just use the expanded list or even increase the article limit on this list and wrangling over articles to include isn't going to go away just because we remove all of the decent articles. The primary purpose of this page is to list the most important encyclopedia topics. Feel free though to make a seperate list of "Vital articles needing improvement" or the like, if you think it would be useful. Cheers —dv82matt 16:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In that case the purpose of the list, as described on the project page, is not clear. And also in that case I would agree with the poster below who says it doesn't have any useful purpose. --Itub 06:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What is the point of this page?

It seems to me that this page is an exercise in POV and that it should be deleted. What is the point of it, especially given the existing of its big sister at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Expanded?

It came to my attention when a point of order was raised by WikiProject Cricket in this discussion and it does not surprise me at all to find that there is an American bias at work here, as per several of the sports-related selections and discussions.

Unless there is some useful purpose for having this list and unless it is going to be done by a working group which is able to take a completely objective view of what is vital and what is not, then the whole thing should be scrapped. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 06:04, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it is a good question, what the point of this list is. However, I don't agree that the POV policies necessarily apply to lists in Wikipedia space, as opposed to article space. Pages in this namespace are for internal purposes, and many of them have non-neutral points of view (just look at all the essays!). --Itub 06:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This list is useful in many ways. It can serve as a centralized watchlist. It can serve as a guide for selecting important articles that need improvement. It can serve as a browsing guide for readers. So there's several useful purposes.

As for POV that is a problem (essays may not be intended to be NPOV but this list is) but anything specific that is brought up can be dealt with. The list of individual sports is a very minor part of the overall list so the idea that it should be deleted because of a problem with that is excessive.

As for your requirement of a working group to administer this list that would run counter to the open informal editing process that has characterized this page. This page provides a more accessible format and style than the core topics lists. —dv82matt 19:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The PoV is not a problem because this is a priority list for those who choose to view it as such. You're perfectly free to create your own, or to encourage the improvement of this list. I completely disagree with the notion of having it deleted. — RJH (talk) 18:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If this is just a WikiProject, it should list its participants, rather than pretending to be some kind of official endeavour of the foundation. It should be clearly stated that the list is a POV by a negligible minority of WP editors, or where, if at all, it has been sourced from. Otherwise, I would probably find myself disagreeing with RJH on the deletion question. Samsara (talk • contribs) 21:13, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't get the impression when I read the project page that this is an official endeavor of the foundation. I disagree that it should be made into a WikiProject; I think that it is fine as it is. --Iamunknown 21:21, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it seems fair that a list of participants should be published. I wasn't around when it was first created, but for the most part this seems like a reasonable approach. It does seem to undergo edits from time to time, however, so perhaps it's open to revision? Maybe there should be a review committee? — RJH (talk) 19:14, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No sports?

I don't know what criteria were used in making this list, but I can't find any mention of sports. It seems there has been talk of removing some sports-related articles from the list (#What we can remove), but atm there is not a single sports-related article on the list. I suggest adding the articles of the most notable sports (e.g. football (soccer), baseball, basketball), the most notable sportspeople (e.g. Michael Schumacher, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Roger Federer) and the most notable sports teams (e.g. Scuderia Ferrari, New York Yankees, Manchester United F.C.). The specifics of this section, which sports-related articles should be included and which should not, would obviously be the subject of a subsequent discussion. Cows fly kites (Aecis) ^Rule^/^{Contributions} 11:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It was discussed here [1]. I'm not sure I agree with it, though. I definitely don't agree with adding those sportspeople. Mahanga^Talk 15:08, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the best not-completely-arbitrary list we can come up with is the modern Olympic games. Even then it's not a very good list. Nifboy 01:41, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Buckingham Palace?

Not sure it's even the most important/notable building in London, Tower of London, Tower Bridge, Westminster Abbey, St Paul's would all probably come first. Suggest it's deleted. Paulbrock 13:07, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I support it's removal from this list. --Amandajm 03:29, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Core topics - 1,000

This has probably been covered before, but is there a reason to have a separate Wikipedia:Core topics - 1,000 and Wikipedia:Vital articles? Both seem to be subjective lists by Wikipedians of the 1000-or-so most important topics for articles on Wikipedia. Is there a significant difference? Should they be merged? – Quadell ^{(talk) (random)} 16:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The core topics list is administered by the Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team so it is purposed specifically to article selection in a release version of Wikipedia. This list is more general in purpose and allows for a more informal editing process IMO. —dv82matt 00:49, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Art and Architecture

I recommend the removal of all the buildings listed under "Architecture". The individuals works are a part of the period that produuced them.

I somewhat agree, though I'd suggest retaining Great Pyramid of Giza and Great Wall of China in the list. Most of the other buildings are simply not notable enough in their own right for inclusion IMO. —dv82matt 09:40, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I recommend the redirection, within the "visual arts" category, of painting to the category "Art" and the removal of the brief list of POV great works, which doesn't include the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel(!?) but does include a single popular modern work the Scream. Where are Picasso's demoiselles, one asks?

I agree that all the individual works should be removed. I would suggest removing all the specific works of literature as well (with the exception of the religious texts in the religion section).

I'm not sure what you mean by "redirection, within the "visual arts" category, of painting to the category "Art"". Do you mean to pipe "Painting" (like this: Painting)? If so then I disagree with this suggestion as this list is specifically intended to be a list of articles rather than categories. —dv82matt 09:40, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The following list is the short list of important topics under "History of Art".

Pre-historic art

Arts of the ancient world

These articles should all be brought up to scratch, if they are not already, and provide the links to all the other areas like Gothic architecture, Pre-Columbian art, Greek sculpture etc. --Amandajm 04:47, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Though I agree that those are important articles, I don't think the historic articles ie: Western art history, Eastern art history and Islamic art history should be included in this list. For the others I will defer to your judgement on the matter. —dv82matt 09:40, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Leonardo da Vinci

Leonardo was primarily a painter! Not a scientist. That's right! He was enormously influential as a painter. And, on the side, he was a scientist and engineer. He advertised himself as having engineering skills, but in fact, he projects either flopped or were not even begun. His flying machine didn't fly. His tank, had it been made, would have rotated on the spot (with enormous effort). His enormous crossbow, when constructed, launched a missile about ten metres. His bobbin winder worked.

His major contributions to science were made through his paintings. His knowledge of anatomy had little impact, except on Art. His study of light had little impact except on Art. Please, somebody, remove Leonardo from the list of influential scientists and put his name where it belongs - He is, with Michelangelo, the most famous painter who ever lived. See Mona Lisa. (Yeah, as an art historian, this really bugs me!)

I've contributed an article about Leonardo's science at Leonardo da Vinci - scientist and inventor. if you want him in the list of scientists, please link that article, and put the main Leonardo da Vinci in the list of artists. --Amandajm 04:47, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Literature

Where are Plays? Where's Shakespeare's plays? Are they listed somewhere other than Literature? --Amandajm 04:47, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Who decided this?

Why on earth are Norway and Bangladesh "vital articles", but other country articles are not? Who decided this mess? Is Bangladesh somehow more "vital" to a good encyclopedia than Cameroon or Chad? Every country in the world should be a "vital article". This whole page is offensive and should be deleted. — Brian (talk) 02:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Original versions actually had something like "everything in List of countries" and added listings of FAs and GAs. I suspect that section grew unwatched until someone changed the wordings. Overall, I completely fail to see how the page is "offensive and should be deleted." Feel free to nominate it. Circeus 03:23, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I may have overreacted. :) I think this project could do with quite a bit of de-Eurocentrization, though. Every country in the world should be listed as "vital", at the very least. — Brian (talk) 05:52, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't mind expanding the list of countries somewhat, but we already have a list of every country in the world elsewhere so why duplicate that long list here? Also, where do you see European bias? Could you give some examples? —dv82matt 09:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson

Should Nelson not be included amongst this list or at least the expanded list? He is a central figure in the history if the British Isles, in European politics over the last two centuries and in naval warfare ever since the battle of Trafalgar. Is there a reason why he is omitted? Thankyou Woodym555 16:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Put him on the expanded VA list if you want but he's really not pivotal enough for the main VA list. Cheers —dv82matt 19:43, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Economics....?

How come this page doesn't have a section on economics? How about articles on Capitalism, Communism, Trade, Banking..etc.? Also should include core business topics: Finance, Marketing, Accounting etc.

It does. It's here. Also Armanaziz, please don't forget to sign your posts on talk pages. Cheers —dv82matt 08:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Medicine additions

Shouldn't hypertension and diabetes be vital articles? They're probably more important than Transmissible spongiform encephalopathy for example.FelixFelix ^talk 18:21, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds reasonable to me. Parmesan 16:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other languages

The list of vital languages leans more than a trifle towards Europe and Asia. May I suggest the addition of Swahili and Quechua, as two widely spoken native languages (S: 80 million; Q: 10 million speakers) of Africa and South America respectively, both of which are spoken in more than one country? Parmesan 16:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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