Talk:Kevin Barry
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Irish Republicanism articles by quality and importance | |||||||
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Quality | Importance | ||||||
Top | High | Mid | Low | NA | ??? | Total | |
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1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | |||
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1 | 2 | 6 | 3 | 12 | ||
B | 12 | 15 | 39 | 28 | 5 | 99 | |
C | 5 | 11 | 54 | 63 | 26 | 159 | |
Start | 4 | 37 | 172 | 197 | 127 | 537 | |
Stub | 1 | 26 | 77 | 29 | 133 | ||
List | 1 | 2 | 2 | 10 | 3 | 18 | |
NA | 1 | 4 | 3 | 174 | 182 | ||
Assessed | 24 | 70 | 304 | 381 | 174 | 190 | 1,143 |
Total | 24 | 70 | 304 | 381 | 174 | 190 | 1,143 |
WikiWork factors (?) | ω = 4,440 | Ω = 4.71 |
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Song
No source is cited here for the lyrics, but it appears to be the version I've known it for (scary thought) something now approaching half a century. But isn't it missing the chorus? At least that's how I've always known it:
- Shoot me like an Irish soldier,
- Do not hang me like a dog;
- For I fought for Ireland's freedom
- On that dark September morn,
- All around that little bakery,
- Where we fought them hand to hand.
- Shoot me like an Irish soldier
- For I fought to free Ireland.
- Jmabel | Talk 08:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- Lacking response, I'll add it. - Jmabel | Talk 05:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
"Shall my soul pass through Old Ireland" was written for Terence McSwiney Lord Mayor of Cork,who died on hunger strike in Brixton prison in October 1920 not Barry, although both songs were written to the same tune. 81.77.178.194 00:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Referencing
I have referenced all the text added. Prior to this there was no referencing at all. I will reference the ages of the soldiers later, or if other editors wish to do so thats fine. --Domer48 08:19, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
- I have a number of references which have the soldiers ages ranging from 19-23. I also have one for 15. There is a lot more to be said in relation to this, so I'm not sure how to proceed? I have put some information onto this section, and removed the age for the time being until others have had a chance to discuss this. The importance of Basil Clarke should not be under estimated. I would quote the following paragraph: In the Irish Times (29 January 1992)there was an apology by Kevin Myers "for stating that Terence MacSwiney had planned to kill the Bishop of Cork. When Myers became aware that this allegation had been fabricated by Clarke, he apologised for not detecting “the insidious concoctions of the black propagandist…" Clearly the work of Basil Clarke in the years 1920-192 1 had the capacity not only to influence the events of that time but also to shape the historical narrative in our time." Clearly it is not a cut and dry issue, and I would welcome some feedback. --Domer48 20:13, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The fact that one of the soldiers was so young has been hidden for years by irish people from the government to republicians. I —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.135.172 (talk) 09:26, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Source: The anglo irish war, the troubles of 1913-1922 osprey publications. written by peter cottrell, edited by Proff. Robert O Neill. I suppose it wont be go enough for you anyway.
- The fact remains no matter what age the british soldier was is that he joined the army and took up arms and went to another country as an occupying force and was killed on active service. It remained hidden because the British army have a history of ignoring the victims of the conflicts they are involved in just look at the Falklands veterans. --193.1.36.14 11:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
It is not a "fact" that the soldier (not soldiers) was so young. If it was a "fact" I would have no problem putting it in. Why did the army (British) say he was 19? Where they covering up his age? Provide the evidence you have, in the form of referenced sources. --Domer48 11:42, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
- I have referenced all sections now. It is my intension to go through it all again using the only full-length biography of Kevin Barry written by Donal O'Donovan titled Kevin Barry and his Time. This will also mean adding additional information. All the newspapers used are available from both the National Libary of Ireland, and the Gilbert Libary Pearse Street, Dublin. --Domer48 12:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
NPOV
The main problem is the lead paragraph.
- His execution was to further outrage public opinion in Ireland and throughout the world. His courage in refusing to inform on his comrades while under torture earned him a place in the nationalist pantheon, [3] [2] and was to become one of the most celebrated of Republican martyrs.
But I think the article in general is overly adulatory, which is why the NPOV tag is there. Stu ’Bout ye! 08:28, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
- This article is referenced. If you like I can put some of the lead in direct quotes. --Domer48 11:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Kevin Barry given a state funeral, in 2001, would you consider that overly adulatory? So if you could expand on the article in general is overly adulatory, I'll try address your concerns? --Domer48 12:12, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
- I didn't realise these were direct quotes until you added the speech marks today, which obviously changes things. The two quotes should also be attributed, ie "x stated that this 'earned him a place in the nationalist pantheon'". This is important as the reader should know who made the statement, and lets them determine the source's bias, if any. Of course being given a state funeral isn't overly adulatory, that's not what I'm talking about. A lot of the article seems to be about what a nice guy he was. It's fine to state this, but when it takes up so much of the content it kinda gives undue weight to it. Particularly in the execution section. Do the sources state anything else about the British reaction? The end of the amush section gives some balance when it talks about the soldiers' ages, but I think it could do with some more. Basically, from my reading the article is written from almost an entirely Republican perspective at the minute. And I stress from my reading, as I'm known to be completely wrong at least once a day :) Stu ’Bout ye! 13:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)