Talk:Ron Paul

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family

I like Ron Paul and everything, but the information under "Family" seems irrelevant and inappropriate for Wikipedia (wife's chocolate chip cookies, his telephone calls to her, etc) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.11.159 (talk) 00:51, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree that it is irrelevant for the article, but my main concern is how far up it is in the article. This information is not pertinent to the main areas of his public life. User:Noggaholic 06:18, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

on the other hand, it doesn't really violate WP:BLP, although I agree that family needs to be constrained to basic facts such as names of children and grandchildren, spouse, what she does, and marriage(s) information, and any relevant news that has affected the candidate's family life (i.e. divorces, domestic violence, marrying a cousin, etc.) I think the family section is useful, but BLP has really limited the negative information used, which ends up giving undue weight to seemingly innocuous yet potentially biased information. Calwatch 07:11, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Irrespective of whether or not I like Ron Paul, I think the family article seems to be a bit pathos-laden to be an encyclopedia entry; what his wife wore in their wedding is irrelevant to his viability as a candidate. Seijihyouronka (talk) 22:35, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, many previous editors, including FA reviewers, thought there had not been enough biographical info. This article is not about "his public life" alone (which hasn't yet merited a separate article other than Legislation sponsored by Ron Paul), nor about "his viability as a candidate" (see Ron Paul presidential campaign, 2008). This is a biography and his private life ought to be weighted as fully as reliable sourcing and BLP permit; I have not seen consensus anywhere that anyone's family should be constrained to names and categories and dates. It is also properly placed in the article; where else would it go? Naturally a successful, vibrant 50-year marriage is an exceptional claim, fully sourced of course. No hard feelings, but I will probably revert much of this later under bold, revert, discuss, looking forward to an interesting discussion; I also have another source for additional of this. If, of course, you have any reliably sourced negative information, please state it neutrally here. John J. Bulten (talk) 23:20, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I found the Family section misplaced. The previous paragraph ends with him finishing collage (apparently for biology) and then jumps to kids who are "also doctors." If I had my zin, I'd move that paragraph down to somewhere after school and military. Isn't that how it is for most politicians' pages? First paragraph introduces, second starts Early Life, third school/military or early career, fourth current family life, rest of article more specific if needed.?? Anyway, it didn't seem to flow properly. It's good to read an article assuming zero knowledge of the subject.Gaviidae (talk) 14:36, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Please replace

Please replace [[Alex Jones]] with [[Alex Jones (radio)|Alex Jones]] in the article. It is locked or something. Swarm Internationale (talk) 05:42, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Done, my friend, done. Swarm Internationale (talk) 06:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

So much for neutral point of view?

I challenge anyone here to find a Psalm in the Bible as worshipful of God as this entry is of Ron Paul. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hosiah (talk • contribs) 22:54, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

An article on Wikipedia with a conservative bias? Not likely, pal. Your problem is that any article that isn't as heavily biased towards liberalism as most on this "encyclopedia" (hardy har har) strikes you as being conservative. LOL! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.0.43 (talk) 00:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Dude...anything on the internet that's not Ron Paul biased? Not likely —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.151.42.134 (talk) 09:11, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Political positions POV problem

(paraphrasing)Paul believes in constitutional rights.... his concerns about civil liberties leads him to oppose laws restricting them, such as the Patriot Act, etc. ..... He believes regulation of medical decisions about maternal or fetal health is "best handled at the state level"

I realize this is a sensitive issue, but the way it is worded here is a political frame designed to confuse the issue by selectively leading out certain relevant facts (e.g. implication that "regulation of medical decisions" is obviously not in contradiction of "constitutional rights" or "civil liberties concerns"). Whether or not it is the case that government's right trump individual rights in one area but not in the next is a complicated issue - especially when there is a dispute over whether or not the individual's right in question is indeed constitutionally protected, or whether it is being weighed against another individual's right. Ron Paul obviously has a position on this, and it should be stated; but not in such a way that the issue is glossed over or that presents his opinion as a non-opinion while ignoring the controversy entirely.

Something should probably be mentioned about Paul's apparent disregard for constitutional limitations on some government establishments of religion as well. His position that the equal protection clause does not extend the bill of rights' protections of individual freedoms to states - such as the |prohibition on government establishment of religion - is a minority opinion and is in direct opposition to decades of Supreme Court precedent and reasoning. Lauding him as someone who believes all constitutional rights are to be protected while ignoring certain cases where he believes the contrary is POV and is not appropriate. Ofus (talk) 16:38, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps your exposition, Easter eggs included, is just too subtle or rarefied for me. The given phrases we used, particularly the last, are the result of careful consensus. Please provide the source for Paul's alleged ignorance of Constitutional rights or other allegedly problematic positions. John J. Bulten (talk) 21:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

It would probably be more accurate to say that Ron Paul is a "federalist" or a "Constitutionalist", and that he believes the Constitution strictly limits the powers of the Federal government, and that includes limiting the powers of the Federal government to impose its views of rights under the Constitution onto the states. This view means he may have a different view about whether a particular right under the Bill of Rights can be abridged by a state, even where he may not believe it can be abridged by the Federal Government.

69.181.184.38 (talk) 05:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Dr. Paul's picture

I figured his latest official picture from his Congressional office was the most appropriate. Help with the copyright would be most appreciated :)

Jackman333 (talk) 20:16, 9 December 2007 (UTC)jackman333

On his campaign website, www.ronpaul2008.com, it states that anyone may syndicate that photo as long as it is not edited.72.213.128.243 (talk) 23:04, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

That's not good enough to be included in WP as free content -- free content must be modifiable. The picture could possibly be used under a fair use claim if no equivalent free image is available, but in that case the permission statement on the website is (as I understand it) irrelevant -- we might do the same thing, under the same circumstances, with a fully-copyrighted, unlicensed, all-rights-reserved image. --Trovatore (talk) 00:23, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Censoring Ron Paul

Many media networks have been censoring Ron Paul's progress in this current election. Can someone write NON-BIASED section on this in the article, stating that this is part of the reason that he has failed to receive broader attention? I'm sure there are many sources on this, for instance, even though it is almost heresy to wikipedia to cite youtube as a source, go to www.youtube.com and search Ron Paul censored. Thanks!72.213.128.243 (talk) 23:02, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

YouTube is not a reliable source; that's just common sense. If you have any actual reliable sources that make such a claim (not freep or other bloggers), please present them; I'm skeptical, but willing to be persuaded. Otherwise, you come across as part of the tinfoil-hat brigade. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

You'd have a hard time proving that the media conspire to keep second-tier candidates in their places, given the huge burst of media attention that Mike Huckabee is now getting. Wasted Time R (talk) 17:41, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

So the conspiracy theory, I suppose, would be that the media are promoting Huckabee as a nominatable-but-unelectable Republican, hoping to sew up the election for the eventual Democratic nominee in the Republican primaries. The kind of thing Garry South pulled with Bill Simon (fat lot of good it did Gray Davis, in the long run). It's not actually absurd on its face. I agree you'd have a hard time proving it though. --Trovatore (talk) 18:34, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It is absurd on the face of it, because first Huckabee started rising in the polls, then the media started paying attention to him. Before that, Huckabee was relegated to Brownback-Hunter-Tancredo levels of media obscurity, well below Paul. Wasted Time R (talk) 18:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, the theory assumes that they need him to be nominatable, so the polls would have an effect on that, sure. --Trovatore (talk) 18:44, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, you convinced me. The all-powerful MSM conspire to elect Democrats as president. That explains why 5 of the last 7 presidents have been Democrats. Wasted Time R (talk) 19:03, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The theory would also have to explain why the media has switched from promoting nominatable-but-unelectable Democrats, for the benefit of the Republicans (Dukakis, Mondale, Kerry, etc.) to doing the reverse for the benefit of the Dems. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Look, I don't think there's especially a "conspiracy" to ignore Ron Paul. I just don't think the Huckabee thing refutes it, not by itself. --Trovatore (talk) 20:50, 12 December 2007 (UTC)'

Media is not censoring anyone by deciding what they want to report. Censoring is the event of denying someone to speak his mind by the means of threats and coercion hence why the government is usually the culprit. If you have a magazine you wouldn't want everything to be published, you wouldn't have any obligation to anyone to publish anything in your magazine just because you happen to own a magazine brand. Bias it may be but that is anyone's right as part of property rights to decide how and not one want to run ones business. It is not censoring though because no one is stopping the person by threats or coercion from speaking his mind in another way, possibly through other magazines or his own. Lord Metroid (talk) 01:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Looking at all that from a French perspective is pretty funny I must say. The whole panel of arguments have been used during the French presidential election this year : one candidate claimed journalists ignored him and were obbeying orders of very bad powerful people that hated him. Others claimed someone had helped a candidate being designated for the election so that he be sure to win. Even if I pretty much support Ron Paul ideas, the whole idea of a conspiracy makes me lauch :) --Bombastus (talk) 22:00, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

General style and structure

Personal articles separate from political biography

I think all pages on Wikipedia named as a person must be simply biographies of persons. All other information such as political career need to be placed on separate pages, such as 'Politics of Ron Paul´. Thank you! Teemu Ruskeepää (talk) 08:56, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Ron Paul advertising

FYI, I've been spending a good portion of today deleting Ron Paul advertising that's been showing up around Wikipedia. The ads are probably being placed because his supporters are trying to draw attention to an upcoming fundraiser. Some of the ads are being added in sneaky ways, for example they're putting ads into an article, by putting edit summaries like "punctuation tweak".[1] They're also expanding the ads to non-Paul-related articles, such as "List of rebellions."[2] If you see more, I recommend both reverting on sight, and also checking the editor's contribs, to see if they've been engaging in similar activities on other articles. On heavily-targeted articles, we also may wish to request page protection. --Elonka 04:09, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

"States' rights"

Libertarians like Dr. Paul believe that people have rights and states have powers. As a constitutionalist he believes that the state and federal governments have distinct and clearly defined powers. This article attributes a belief in "states' rights" to him, but has he ever used that term? If not I believe it seriously misrepresents his views. Nicmart (talk) 04:36, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Religion

A fox news debate stated that Ron Paul was Protestant, not Baptist like the article says. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.92.179 (talk) 07:06, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Baptists are Protestants. ~ 199.17.28.56 (talk) 07:14, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Also Fox News isn't reliable.12.158.161.59 (talk) 20:50, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

New record

Ron Paul broke the record for most single-day donations during a primary (old holder was John Kerry), as well most online donations in a 24 hour period. This should be noted in the article. ~ 199.17.28.56 (talk) 07:15, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree, a record of this magnitude deserves to be mentioned here. It should most likey have it's own article as well. Byates5637 (talk) 16:33, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

It's in the article already. But the idea that it should have it's own article[!] just reveals a strong lack of sense of proportion and a possible NPOV problem! --Orange Mike | Talk 17:38, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

As a die-hard Paul supporter myself, I concur entirely. Fractalchez (talk) 19:44, 17 December 2007 (UTC)