Talk:Charlton Heston

Racist?

The photo on the front from 63 is during the equal cival rites march,yet in Bowling for Columbine,theres an indication that hes anti-multiculturalism.Im interested to know what this mans stance is on race.as ive also noted that he was a staunch Democrat and is now a Republican.

When Heston spoke of problems with Civil Rights in that skilfully edited interview he was actually talking about the problems in getting the Civil Rights Act passed in 1964. Just because he later switched parties does not mean he abandoned his belief in equal rights. (Chunda18 20:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC))

Neither being a Republican, nor being "anti-multiculturalism" is the same as or something that indicates the presence of, racism Twfowler 15:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

The article notes:

"Early in his career, he was one of a handful of Hollywood stars to publicly speak out against racism and was active in the civil rights movement."

Any sources that can be cited? I have seen clips on him speaking on CNN and citing Martin Luther King. However, I have been unable to located written public sources.

Leon Spencer, Animis Opibusque Parati 05:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

A WP:RS does not have to be written - merely published (which includes broadcasting). - Kittybrewster ☎ 08:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Photo of Heston

This picture is rather old. Can we find another that doesn't date from the sixties? --Saforrest 00:53, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

It is unlikely that we could find another free image of that quality. Arniep 01:20, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I sent a request to Ken Kwok. Ken has taken photos of Heston:

http://www.hollywood.com/photo_gallery/Charlton_Heston/2400531

Leon Spencer, Animis Opibusque Parati 05:16, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Birthdate

For the love of God, Heston was born in 1923. I have all his books, I think he knows the right date........

Forgive me, but you are a bit naive here about how the old studio system worked. Old-time actors were notorious for providing inaccurate information about their own birthdates. Actors from Humphrey Bogart to Al "Grandpa" Lewis tweaked their birthdates anywhere from a few days to 13 years. Some actors even had their birthdates changed by the studios for PR purposes. Unfortunately, after 60 years, it becomes difficult to change the date back without embarrassment. Without a certified copy of a birth certificate obtained directly from the registrar of the state in question (in other words, not from the actor himself or his representative but directly from the government), I would not accept the word of any old-time actor as to his birthdate. --Charlene.fic 16:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Since every other source I find on the internet says 1924 as the year of birth, I have changed it to that date. When he dies, we'll see how old they report him as. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.39.189.36 (talk) 20:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC).

"every other source I find on the internet says 1924" ... the Internet is VERY OFTEN WRONG. I cannot believe someone would be so dumb as to cite "the internet" as a source, when there are so many factual documents accessible these days! Anyone with access to census records can plainly see he was born in 23. His family moved in '30 and he's listed TWICE in the April Census, both putting his age as born 1923. UnderPressure (talk) 05:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, but now the article is wrong either way. It is said, that he was born in October 1924, proofed by the reference to the article "MSNBC. Charlson Heston dead at 84.". But if he died in April 2008 with an age of 84, he must have been born in 1923 indeed. (Presumption: October 1923 born, October 1924 one year, October 1925 two, October 1926 three, October 1927 four, October 1928 five, ..., October 2008 eighty-five - so in April 2008 still eighty-four, as MSNBC said) --84.59.199.105 (talk) 07:50, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

It seems the date of his birth (and the various reporting on it) are themselves are matter of note now. The article should explain the contradictory info and that newspapers have reported both ages rather than just report the 1924 birthdate as gospel. Zkzkz (talk) 09:58, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I work at a newspaper and we have access to voter ID records; Heston's ID record lists his birth year as 1924. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.130.191.86 (talk) 19:53, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Trivia sections are the scourge of wikipedia pop-culture articles

WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY just copy out the (already stupid) trivia section on the IMDB and paste it here? It serves no purpose and is almost certainly a copyright violation. If no-one can advise me otherwise in the next few days I will delete the whole section wholesale. Badgerpatrol 01:04, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's a copyvio, so no keep. Tawker 00:51, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Done. As a compromise, I have added an explanatory note to the IMDB link. Badgerpatrol 00:53, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Much of the info in the "Trivia" section was not trivia, such as the names of his children and his tenure as president of SAG. I hope we're not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. -Will Beback 05:28, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

My major complaint was not the content (although much of it was naff), but rather the fact that it was ripped off from the IMDB, almost word-for-word. It looked amateurish at best, and at worst was a copyright violation (IMDB material is copyright). I agree that some of it (if verifiable) would enhance the article if it could be added as proper, continuous prose. Cheers, Badgerpatrol 22:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

How can we be sure that imdb contributors didnt copy some of the info from Wikipedia? Arniep 16:11, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Ha- Touche! How do you want to prove that however? Assuming it is copyright material- which I think is likely- is it more parsimonious (and legally safest) to assume (given that these 'trivia' sections are the accepted format on IMDB but not ubiquitous on wikipedia) that the material originated here or there? The style is VERY reminiscent of IMDB, as I'm sure we all agree. Also, apart from the copyright issue (which may be debatable, I'm not a lawyer), what's your opinion of the actual format of the section itself? I must confess, I think that these sections are amateurish and silly. I strongly agree that (if verifiable) some of the information could go back into the main article, but only as continuous prose rather than bullet-point text - consisting of such illuminating statements as:

- Prior to starring in The Omega Man, a remake of Vincent Price's film The Last Man On Earth, Heston and Price appeared together in Cecil B. Demille's The Ten Commandments. - His wife calls him Charlie, but everyone else calls him Chuck. - While they were starring in a play together in 1960, Laurence Olivier told Heston that he had the potential to become the greatest American actor of the century. Although the play received unfavorable notices, Olivier told Heston that he must to learn to forget good notices in order to do better next time. - *His favorite food is Loushka; a Hungarian dish made with noodles, spinach, and chicken broth. - Was nicknamed "Cheston," on his appearance on "Space Ghost: Coast to Coast" (Episode 3.20, "Dam")

Ahem. If this material originated on wikipedia, then it was contributed by a very poor editor (or, more likely, a very inexperienced one). In any case, these bullet points are a) not continuous text; and b) not verified ('Any unsourced material may be challenged and removed.'). I do not feel that it is a valuable contribution to the article. Equally, I do not feel myself to be knowledgable enough re this subject to separate the wheat from the chaff. I gave prior notice of my intention to delete this section, and received only one assent and no dissenters. If you however feel that reverting to the previous version improves the article (I do not, and I believe that my opinion (re these trivia sections) is shared by other wikipedians, although I accept fully that there are no hard-and-fast rules), or that you have the specialist knowledge to pick out and properly reference the material worth preserving, then please do so! Cheers, Badgerpatrol 21:48, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

The Olivier item has been corrected on the imdb. What Olivier was basically saying to Heston was that in order to improve as an actor it is essential to forget good reviews, and instead look at the bad notices to understand how one can do better next time.

Year of birth

There seems to be a dispute over the year of birth. Does anyone have a hardcopy of one of his memoirs? -Will Beback 21:39, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I have an original copy of "In the Arena", first published in 1995. Heston writes, "In 1933, when I was ten ..."

In his book, "The Actor's Life", he mentions turning 35 while shooting "Ben-Hur" in Rome, October, 1958.

That means he was born in 1923!! 58 minus 35 is 23!!! This is from his own journals. He was born in 1923...NO DOUBT. I met him in April 1998 here in OKC.~~MikeR~~

• The sources all say 1924. All we have on 1923 is your word, no actual evidence. Wahkeenah 01:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Heston himself said he was born in 1923, I think he knows better than any Internet sources. He was 28 when he made "The Greatest Show On Earth", DeMille probably thought it was better to say he was 27.

Some sources say he was born in 1922. (92.10.26.26 (talk) 09:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC))

Strange as it might seem at first glance, people are usually not the best sources of accurate information about their own dates of birth. Sure, they were there at the time, but they had their minds on other things, so they essentially get their information second-hand. To complicate matters, theatrical types tend to get into quite a bit of fudging. There's every reason to believe he was born in 1924. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:12, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, but now the article is wrong either way. It is said, that he was born in October 1924, proofed by the reference to the article "MSNBC. Charlson Heston dead at 84.". But if he died in April 2008 with an age of 84, he must have been born in 1923 indeed. (Presumption: October 1923 born, October 1924 one year, October 1925 two, October 1926 three, October 1927 four, October 1928 five, ..., October 2008 eighty-five - so in April 2008 still eighty-four, as MSNBC said) --84.59.199.105 (talk) 10:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

The Birth Certificate of Heston was obtained and was published in ASTRODATABANK program: 4 Oct 1923 7.55 am Evanston. You can write to Pat Taglilatelo, director of www.astrodatabank.com and ask for a copy of the BC. User: Isaac Starkman 6 Apr 2008 15.40 UT

Politics

Was Heston actually against Nixon and Vietnam as the article says, because according to the Internet Movie Database he attended Richard Nixon's victory celebration in 1972 along with John Wayne, Clint Eastwood and Glenn Ford.

Actor George Clooney was quoted as saying that Heston deserved Alzheimer's …

This is not supported by the link which is provided, which only quotes Clooney as saying that Heston deserved whatever was said about him. Corrected. Aretnap 19:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Missing Something

Shouldn't something be said about his announcement that he has Alzheimer's Disease? Looking over the talk pages, I realize there was some controversy about that a while back, but shouldn't there at least be a sentence in the article mentioning it?Gershwinrb 06:37, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

There is. Badgerpatrol 15:30, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, my mistake, didn't see that there. Gershwinrb 05:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

This is more of a question. Back in the mid 70's I often received mail from an organization calling itself ZPG (Zero Population Growth) whose concern was that world population was in a headlong plunge toward overwhelming our resouces. If my memory is correct, Charlton Heston was the spokesman for the organization then. Am I correct? Al Gore in his Inconvenient (or Unwelcome)Truth, has sounded the same alarm... which of course would be a very different (and welcome)alliance between the two.

Quotes

How about moving the quotes to wikiquote (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Charlton_Heston) an deleting them here, and then concentrate on Heston and not what he might have said?

It's always better to move quotes to Wikiquote. -Will Beback 22:08, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Location of birth?

Here it says St. Helen, Michigan, but imdb.com says Evanston, Illinois. Which is it? Fistful of Questions 04:53, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Just discovered this anonymous IP edit that seemed to have no purpose other than to vandalize and provide false information. Fistful of Questions 01:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

That was unintentional vandalism - I honestly thought Heston's birthyear was 1924 and corrected it. There seems to be considerable confusion about whether he was born in 1923 or 1924. Sorry for the misinformation. 18.243.5.40 05:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, he was born in Evanston. Some sources have it as Evanston Hospital, but he was actually born at the Evanston Sanitarium, a long-defunct facility that was Evanston's "colored" hospital. At the time, Evanston Hospital would take white or black patients, but barred black doctors from practicing. The Sanitarium had mainly black doctors, but also accepted white or black patients. This is probably insignificant for our article, but the Evanston Historical Society has the records. They were quite proud of their most famous baby.--Dhartung | Talk 05:29, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Did Charlton Heston star in a Movie about an aging Quarterback? Was it called "The Pro"?

David McClellan

It was called "Number One" (1969).Sensei48 (talk) 11:10, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Charlton Heston & ZPG

Back in the 70's I received a lot of mail from an organization calling itself ZPG (Zero Population Growth) whose concern was that world population was rapidly exceeding our resources and needed to be volutarily reigned in as a prefered solution to famine, pestilence, & war. If I remember right, Charlton Heston was the spokesman for the organization and the mail was from him. Am I correct? 4.242.150.44 17:48, 21 March 2007 (UTC) Al (ALTRKR@earthlink.net)

When did he became Charlton?

Charlton is his mother's maiden name...

It is stated at the beginning that he was born John Charles Carter and then got the surname Heston when his mother remarried, but how and when exactly did he became Charlton? I can see no answer to that question in the article. KMA "HF" N 18:24, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The 1930 U.S. Census shows the Carter family living in Richfield Township, Roscommon County, Michigan. The family is Russell W. (32), Lilla C. (30), Charlton J. (6), and Lilla A. (2 1/2). The census taker recorded the names as they were given by the mother or father, so the family used the name "Charlton" before his parents were divorced. The census also shows that Charlton was born in Illinois and his younger sister was born in Michigan. Both parents were born in Illinois. Chester L. Heston (27), a native of Ohio, is also listed in the 1930 census living as a "Roomer" in the same township and county in Michigan, which only requires 6 pages of the census.Pamarcot52 (talk) 17:27, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Cold dead hands quote

In the article it states that Heston held up a Sharps rifle. According to the NRA it was a hand made Pennsylvania rifle made by Master rifle maker Cecil Brooks. Here is a link to an NRA article about the rifle maker and the famous Heston quote. http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/CecilBrooks.asp Wallyyoung 02:54, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Can we have the rifle now? 89.240.82.5 (talk) 08:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

They'd better get it quickly, before rigor mortis sets in. Comradeash (talk) 12:58, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Reference to CH in Midnight Oil song

Something minor, but I figured I'd mention it. Midnight Oil's song 'Shipyards of New Zealand' from Red Sails in the Sunset, Charlton Heston is mentioned: Now danger lurks behind the spreader / And Charlton Heston casts the first stone / User interference birthmarks / Clever, not very wise --81.165.171.208 18:40, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

All right already

There is no such word as "alright." The phrase is spelled "all right." Elementary school grammar.

There certainly is such a word, just as there is such a word as "ain't". The fact that certain authorities don't like it doesn't make it go away! It's not (currently) generally accepted as Standard English, but that's not to say it never will be. After all, within living memory the style "Downing-street" was widely used. 86.132.137.5 (talk) 04:43, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

You have to be joking! This is a commonly-used word. [1] [2] FranksValli (talk) 05:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, please, in second references to people, unless there are two or more people with the same last name in the article, the name used should be the last name. Hence, "Gore Vidal" becomes "Vidal," not "Gore." --208.106.59.58 (talk) 18:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

In addition, there is an example here of what is a misunderstanding of the term "cult" when applied to films, a misunderstanding that crops up repeatedly on Wiki. A "cult film" is one that received little general attention critically and financially at the time of its release but that acquired a usually small but dedicated fan base that (sometimes stubbornly) maintained that the film was misunderstood, underappreciated, or unjustly neglected. Some cult films' appeal remains restricted to just such a self-perpetuating fan base even decades later; others eventually graduate to a more widespread critical and at times financial success.

Virtually all of Heston's films after about 1950 were major studio releases; after The Ten Commandments through at least 1980, virtually all of those were A movies. Soylent Green and Omega Man were major movies that attracted quite a bit of critical comment at the time, both positive and negative - not at all "cult" films.

Nonetheless, a few of Heston's films might qualify - his little-seen and often-bashed 1970 Julius Caesar has its fans, as does the essentially indie production by his son Frazier of the 1980 The Mountain Men. However, the Heston movie that has the best claim to cult status is 1968's Will Penny, written and directed by Tom Gries. This film was (arguably) Heston;s most successful performance and movie with critics, and it does indeed have an avid fan base that points to it (and Major Dundee) as probably the first of the revisionist Westerns that became so popular in the 1970s. Sensei48 (talk) 05:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Umm.... there is a word "alright". I think you mean "alot" and "a lot". Alright means "okay", as in "I'm alright." –The Obento Musubi (Contributions) 05:42, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

As a former English major, I'm going to step in to this debate. "Alright" is a word just as "ain't" is a word, but neither are proper words to use in writing, especially in an encyclopedia article. It is fine to use in an IM chat, but on Wikipedia, "all right" is preferable to "alright." All right? :) --Gloriamarie (talk) 06:06, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, well they need to make it a proper word already... Alright looks like a word in it's own right that has come from all and right and means "okay" or signifies agreement, wheras "all right" looks stupid (in my opinion) and holds onto the old meaning of "all is well".98.18.28.16 (talk) 20:12, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Geordie Ancestors

In the course of collecting mostly literary material on the North East of England, I have accumulated on the way the following scraps:

CHARLTON HESTON (1924 - 2008)

The star of Ben Hur, El Cid and many other Hollywood epics was born John Charlton Carter (the Heston comes from a step-father). His grandfather was a miner in the Newcastle area working from the age of nine 1890-95 before emigrating to the USA. Heston’s wife Lydia also has North East antecedents, in the Alnwick area. Her maiden name was Clarke.

It appears that Heston stayed in Jesmond (Newcastle)in the 1970s while researching his family history, and shopped in Acorn Road. He showed some facility in using the local speech, it seems. He was guest of honour at the official re-opening of the Theatre Royal, Newcastle in 1988.

If someone has references for any of this, it might be suitable for insertion in the article. I may well have come across information in the Newcastle Evening Chronicle, and will see if I can get some chapter and verse. Charlton, by the way, is a common name in the North East. The Charltons were one of the great Border families.

Bandalore (talk) 06:32, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Source for statement on his civil rights participation

The passage that refers to Heston's statement that was a civil rights activist before it was fashionable has a citation tag on it. I did not write that passage, or place the tag, but I distinctly remember reading a series of excerpted quotes from a book he wrote several years ago in which he said this. I don't recall the name of the book, but the one book by him at Amazon.com is To Be a Man, which is from 2000, which sounds about right to me. Someone who has a copy or could buy or borrow one should be able to use it to source that statement. Nightscream (talk) 10:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

A Man for All Seasons

Could you please add that film to Charlton Heston's filmography? I see it is not listed even though it is a separate article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Man_for_All_Seasons_%281988_film%29 Regards, Shelest —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.210.132.91 (talk) 10:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

CHARLTON HESTON DID NOT CONSIDER HIMSELF FROM ILLINOIS - HE CONSIDERED HIMSELF FROM MICHIGAN WHERE HE SPENT MOST OF HIS TIME GROWING UP. HIS FAMILY OWNED LARGE SECTIONS OF LAND IN CENTRAL MICHIGAN (LOWER PENINSULA) AND HE CALLED HIMSELF "A BOY FROM MICHIGAN." THE WIKI ARTICLE DOES NOT EVEN SPEAK OF MICHIGAN! POOR JOB, WIKI! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.61.196.89 (talk) 13:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

popular culture

None of these seem really like meaningful parts of his overall biography... so I'm copying them here in case someone wants to streamline this into a coherent prose section. --Rividian (talk) 13:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

In the 2001 remake of Planet Of The Apes, Heston had a cameo as General Thade's father, Zaius, ending his only scene with the same line he ended the original movie with "Damn them! Damn them all to hell!"

In the video game "Postal²", there are many allusions to Heston, such as a difficulty level called "Hestonworld" and the "Postal Dude" considering him as "his President".

Spotswoode's voice in the film Team America: World Police is an homage to Heston. The Switchfoot song, Might Have Ben Hur is dedicated to Charlton Heston.

On the sketch comedy show MADtv, Heston was parodied by then-cast member Pat Kilbane.

Heston was parodied by the animated show The Angry Beavers on multiple occasions. The line "Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty apes!" (from Planet of the Apes) was spoken by the show's lead characters Daggett and Norbert in several episodes, and in one episode the two quoted a passage of dialogue from Ben-Hur (1959).

Anglo-Irish band Stump released a single entitled Charlton Heston about his film The Ten Commandments. The song contains the short chorus "They'd always ask us to describe, How Charlton Heston put his vest on" amidst humorous descriptions of scenes from the film.

Boston hardcore punk band Slapshot has a song called "Shoot Charlton Heston". It has appeared, amongst others, on their greatest hits album.

Boston ska band Big D And The Kids Table has the lyrics "Let Charlton Heston have his gun, let somebody shoot him just for fun". It appeared on their album Strictly Rude in the song Hell On Earth.

Heston was mentioned in the song "The Idiots Are Taking Over" by the punk rock band NoFX, in the line "And I'm starting to feel a lot like Charlton Heston, stranded on a primate planet."

Heston is referenced in the song "My Favorite Mutiny" by hip-hop group The Coup on their album Pick a Bigger Weapon, and in "In the Music" by The Roots from their album Game Theory (album).

Oklahoma City sports radio station WWLS (AM) "The Sports Animal" features a segment with a man claiming to be Charlton Heston. The segment, which airs during the morning of football games, is called "Charleton Heston's Football Firing Line" and includes Heston giving his top choices for point spread victories. The segment plays on the fact that Heston is a member of the NRA and uses terms like "shotgun blast of the week game".

Removed claims

I removed this claim: "Heston planned to campaign for Lyndon Johnson, but when filming on Major Dundee went over schedule, did not." Someone can re-add it if they can find a citation... I couldn't. --Rividian (talk) 13:48, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I also removed this for the same reason: "Heston saw McCarthyism and racial segregation as helping the cause of Communism worldwide, and opposed both." --Rividian (talk) 13:51, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Why not just put a citation required tag? 67.184.14.87 (talk) 17:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

One had been on each for some time... I looked for a citation on multiple archives and couldn't find one. per WP:V and WP:BLP we should remove questionable stuff, not let it sit there for an indefinite period of time with a tag. --Rividian (talk) 19:37, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

age and birth date

I can't edit this, but Heston was born in 1923 and died at 84 not 83.(76.178.68.210 (talk) 15:12, 6 April 2008 (UTC))

The Internet Movie Database entry says (1924-10-04)October 4, 1924, The New York Times article agrees and states his age as 83 however a Google News search shows other media sources asserting 1923 age 84 and 1924 age 83. At appears multiple "reliable" sources disagree. – Conrad T. Pino (talk) 15:37, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I was going to write something similar. According to LexisNexis, 9 sources say that he was born on 4 October 1924. Then again, another 4 sources say that he was born on 4 October 1923! 168 sources then say that he died at age 83! But then, wait, another 238 sources say that he died at age 84!Strike the last sentence. Some were false positives. I set the search engine to only record dates on or after 5 April 2008. 3 sources now say he died at age 83. Another 54 say that he died at age 84.

This is totally bizarre, and I'm not sure what Wikipedia policy says we should do in cases like this. Do we go with the higher number of reliable sources? If that's the case, he died at age 84 according to the higher number of reliable sources. What do others think we should do? J Readings (talk) 15:43, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Until we are certain of which is the correct date? Wikipedia usually puts both dates in the article. In the Heston case? October 4, 1923/1924. -- GoodDay (talk) 15:50, 6 April 2008 (UTC)