Talk:Gallipoli campaign

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An event in this article is a January 9 selected anniversary

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Commanders

Strictly speaking, Von Sanders(An ottoman Pasha even before World War) was the Turkish commander. I only included Germany as a combatant because they provided machine gunners and artillery(*false batteries over gallipoli was built by Abdulhamit II) . Also submarines, I guess, plus the German crews remained on the Breslau and Goeben even once they became Turkish vessels. Perhaps Germany's role in Gallipoli isn't big enough to warrant a "combatant" tag. If we include them, we probably should include Newfoundland and Malta and the Zion Mule Corps and so on for the Allied side. Gsl 06:33, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Von Sanders was not in Turkish side,he was infact dieing on the other. He have made many "mistakes" like moving troops inner fields at the beginning of the invasion. So the allied forces have landed easily to Gallipoly. It is obviousy an evidence of exceptional stupidity for a costal war. But in fact it wasn't the stupidity.

He aimed to make war longer to lighten Allied forces for Germany. That made the Turks pay much higer price for the victory.

utku 15:43, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Von Sanders did NOT even care about Turks nor İstanbul. The real commander and hero of the battle is Mustafa Kemel Atatürk(Appeared as Hero of Anafartas, as an officer not a commander).

Ah, such a fanatism.Nobody can say this.Von Sanders can have mistakes but was an honourable soldier. Aozgen54@yahoo.com

Atatürk was the hero. His leadership was inspired, unlike virtually everybody else present. (I'll reserve comment on von Sanders; I'm unaware of his actions.) Trekphiler 05:39, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Hamilton's leadership was distant & incompetent, & the ANZACs were little better. They went ashore against trivial opposition & stopped, evidently not aware (or concerned) their objective was to link up & defeat the Turks. Something needs to be said about this. Something also needs to be said about the poor planning & co-ordination that hamstrung the troops when they did land. Trekphiler 06:25, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

We also forget the Colonel Şefik Aker, Commander of the 27th Regiment --88.245.31.51 (talk) 14:15, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Name

The problem with this article is that the campaign is never called "the Battle of Gallipoli" in any of the combatant countries. In Britain it is called the Dardanelles Campaign and in Australia and New Zealand it is simply called Gallipoli, or sometimes the Gallipoli Landings. I don't know what it's called in France. I will note this in the intro para, but perhaps this title ought to be redirected. Adam 05:42, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

It's called "Battle of Gallipoli" to comply with the Wikipedia:WikiProject Battles guidelines. Gsl 06:02, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I'm aware of that, but that doesn't make it the name of the battle. Is an encyclopaedia required to conform to reality or vice versa? Adam 06:10, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

It is also just "Gallipoli" in Canada (well, Newfoundland), if that helps. Adam Bishop 06:15, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Replace the existing Gallipoli entry? As far as I am concerned, Gallipoli is a place, not a battle and the Battle of Gallipoli is a battle, not a place. As you point out, the battle is known by a number of names. Which one do you want to use for the final entry? I didn't create this entry, I'm just trying to complete it. Gsl 06:19, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I agree it is an awkward choice. I said "perhaps" it ought to be redirected, but perhaps also it ought not. Adam 06:23, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps the current Gallipoli page becomes "Gallipoli (disambiguation)". Entries about the Gallipoli townships become "Gallipoli, Turkey" and "Gallipoli, Italy". Gallipoli (1981 movie) stays as it is. Battle of Gallipoli moves to "Gallipoli" and "Battle of Çanakkale" and "Dardanelles Campaign" are redirects to "Gallipoli". Personally I like it the way it is - I don't know that most people would want the amount of detail that's in the Battle of Gallipoli page - but I've got no problem is someone wants to rearrange it. Gsl 00:26, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I have no problems with amee foxs suggestion, but I think on further thought that the problem is that Gallipoli wasn't a "battle" at all, it was a campaign lasting several months, with a series of engagements but no single "battle." I could therefore argue that the Battle of Gallipoli article be dropped and its content shifted to Gallipoli (military campaign) or something like that. Adam 02:32, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

There are plenty of month-long "battles" made up of a series of smaller engagements, for example the Battle of the Somme (1916) ("Somme Offensive") and Third Battle of Ypres ("Flanders Offensive"). That said, I agree "Battle of Gallipoli" isn't the conventional name here however I favour the consistent "battle of" nomenclature for the main entry, though I seem to be in the minority. Unless someone wants to make an executive decision, I guess we assemble the alternatives and run a vote. Geoff 23:25, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I agree, Adam. Gallipoli campaign or Gallipoli (campaign) or something similar. It isn't called "the Battle of Gallipoli" by anyone, and it wasn't a battle, it was a whole series of them. From the point of view of link-friendliness, most people will want to just link it as Gallipoli, so Gallipoli (campaign) allows the pipe trick. On the other hand, Gallipoli campaign looks better. Or even (shock horror) Battle of Gallipoli? Whichever way you look at it. it's a curly one. Tannin 02:58, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The advice at Wikipedia:WikiProject Battles says to use "Battle of" unless the battle is most commonly known under a different name. In this case plain Gallipoli is the most common, but we should use Gallipoli campaign because the former is also the place. Gdr 09:00, 2004 Aug 12 (UTC)

Perhaps a poll is in order, although that would require me to make a decision. After eight months of editing it, I am quite comfortable with Battle of Gallipoli. Geoff/Gsl 07:16, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Is "the Dardanelles Campaign" the official British designation (for example, for battle honours)? This Briton would call it "Gallipoli", and I expect most other Britons would too (although I would know what "the Dardanelles Campaign" meant). -- ALoan (Talk) 09:39, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Seems to me "Battle of Gallipoli" is inappropriate. It wasn't a single action, as "battle" implies, but a campaign. I agree, it's rarely called "Dardanelles Campaign", which would be correct; I'd suggest retitle the page & redirect via Gallipol links (the most common usage) from pages that are concerned with it. Others I'd say should go to a disambiguation page. Trekphiler 05:47, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Gallipoli should be a Campaign, not a Battle! As it is always called in Australia & New Zealand, while in Britain it is the Dardanelles Campaign (not Battle). While said to be against the Wiki naming policy, but the page dealing with the policy does not make any mention of Campaigns or Theatres in a War! Wiki has in WWI “the Sinai-Palestine Campaign” and in the American Civil War the Franklin-Nashville Campaign and the Trans- Mississippi Theatre. Are we going to call them the Sinai-Palestine Battle etc? Hugo999 12:46, 7 February 2007 (UTC) PS: this discussion started in 2004, why not do it!

Just to say that there is a little mistake in the introduction : in France, this battle has only been only known as the « Bataille des Dardanelles » (Dardanelles Battle) and Gallipoli has never been heard as a name for it. I let you change it in the article. Glotz 17:25, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I have the Commonwealth War Graves Commission leaflet (ie an official leaflet): the title is The Gallipoli Campaign, 1915. It starts with a paragraph on the Naval attempt to force the Dardanelles in March 1915. Fred Waite's The New Zealanders at Gallipoli just refers to Gallipoli, but has references to individual battles: Battle of Krithia, Sari Bair, Lone Pine. Hugo999 10:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with most that calling it the "Battle of Gallipoli" is a bit of a misnomer, considering the majority terms used in other countries who participated in the battles of that campaign. "The Gallipoli Campaign" would be more apropos than as such as it is referred to now. Firstly, when you refer to maps regarding the battle, the only sight of the word "Gallipoli" is the town on the western shores of the Dardanelles on the northern part of the peninsula; there was never a battle there during this particular campaign that made this particular event to be known as such. Secondly, the peninsula as a whole is referred to "Gallipoli" (though not shown by cartography), making 'campaign' the proper term for this region of conflict during of WWI. IF one really wants to be technical about it, maybe it should be called the "Gallipoli Peninsula Campaign", but I think "Gallipoli Campaign" would be more appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom (talk • contribs) 10:54, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

The Gallipoli campaign was just that - a 'campaign'. Not a battle. A campaign consists of many battles. Some of the battles fought during the Gallipoli campaign were 'The Landing', '1st Krithia', '2nd Krithia', 'Gully Ravine', 'Sari Bair' and 'Hill 60'. A battle could be further broken down into 'actions'. For example, during the Battle of Sari Bair, three well-known actions in Australia and New Zealand were 'Lone Pine', Chunuk Bair' and 'The Nek'. The 'Battles Nomenclature Committee' of the British government decided / decides on the names of battles, and to suggest that this aspect of history be overridden by Wikipedia guidelines seems presumptuous, to say the least. Hayaman (talk) 11:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Good article

May I just point out that I think this is a rather good article? :) Barneyboo 11:22, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I agree. Of all of Wikipedia's Battle pages, this one is exceptionally well written. Anon 8:29 02 Jun 2006 (UTC)

Remarks are too subjective.. and it is not Gallipoly.. Gallipoli

"Turkish"

It is an very good article; however, I think it would be more historically accurate to use the word Ottoman wherever possible, instead of "Turkish", except in relation to specific individuals (etc). That is to say, it's possible that two thirds of the Ottoman forces were Arab conscripts. Obviously there were many other ethnic groups in the empire as well. Check this interesting article at al Jazeera's website: "The forgotten Arabs of Gallipoli", by Jonathan Gorvett, 14 January 2004[1] (By the way, the article doesn't mention that some Arabs -- Egyptians -- served as labourers with the Allied forces.) What do others think? Grant65 (Talk) 11:46, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

There was only one arab regiment at Gallipoli at the beginning(in 19.Division) then as far as I know it has taken back.But there was individual Arab officers. Aozgen54@yahoo.com

The history of my grandfather's unit (which was at Gallipoli, Sinai, Palestine, Syria) uses "Turk|Turkish|Turkey" an even 100 times; there's no use of "Ottoman". The first chapter of Vol VII (Sinai & Palestine) of the Aus. official history is called "The Turks Invade Egypt" and uses "Turk|Turkish|Turkey" throughout (9 times on the first page, 0 for "Ottoman"). It quotes Enver Pasha as saying "Turkey has defeated the British Navy." Picking any page in Vols I, II or VII the usage is invariably "Turk*". It's the same in Keegan's "The First World War" -- once he gets over introducing it as the "Ottoman Empire", he uses "Turk*". Likewise turning to any random page in Carlyon's "Gallipoli". Even a conference article I've got, "The impact of the Ottoman Empire in the German strategy of 1915", uses "Turk*" almost exclusively.

Against such a weight of material, I'm not brave enough to say that "Ottoman" is more historically accurate than "Turkish". Geoff/Gsl 04:38, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've reverted the use of "Ottoman". If you wish to use "Ottoman" instead of "Turkish", please make the changes consistent through the entire article rather than in one isolated section. Also make the changes in all the sub-articles and the articles of the Sinai and Palestine campaign. Geoff/Gsl 00:24, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Geoff, my apologies for not responding sooner. I disagree strongly with you on this matter; just because the Ottoman Empire forces are commonly referred to as "Turks" or Turkish", it doesn't mean that is correct. It's like the usage of "British", when the correct term would be "British Commonwealth"/"British Empire"; or "American" when the correct term is "Allied". This a common problem in Wikipedia military history articles. Grant65 (Talk) 00:49, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. I don't agree (for the reasons I stated above) but will respect your wishes to make the changes. I only ask that if you insist on making the changes, you do it consistently throughout the article, rather than in just one section. Geoff/Gsl 00:55, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Make it Ottoman throughout. It strikes me as arrogant to use Turkish, just as it would be to use "British" when Can & Oz forces were numeous (common as that is in histories...). Recall coverage of the PacWar: you'd be hard pressed to find mention of RAAF & RNZAF, even tho they were pretty important in SWPA; it's all "American"... Trekphiler 05:50, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree here that using Turkish (really alluding to "Turks") is a bit of a misnomer and referring to the Peoples of the Ottoman Empire as "Ottomans" for this battle (or purpose of that time frame during the reign of the Ottomans) is appropriate. Turks were not just in this area, and go back as far as pre 600 CE in the larger but general (and not exclusively) Manchurian areas. Tommy6860 —Preceding comment was added at 23:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

A single website does not convince me about the number of ethnic Arabs in the Ottoman army. That speculation should be removed until someone comes up with more credible references. Basarcenik 14:32, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have a reliable citation for the figures? Turkish Army now seems to say that the 253,000 figure includes all losses and the number of dead is around 60,000. Here's a link to an article discussing this (in Turkish): http://www.canakkale1915.com/sehitsayisi.htm

Arabs dind't fought at WWI for Ottoman empire. They joinned the British! see Lawrance of Arabia

There were Arab divisions which were sent to Gallipoli as reinforcements but there are many legends about their effect on the war and at one point Atatürk said "Give me the Turks" because of the poor performance of the Arab troops both because of their poor will of fight and the unsuitable battleground for them (they were trained and fought in the Middle East, a totally different place than Gallipoli). Warriors from Anatolia won the Battle of Gallipoli. Deliogul 19:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't the German Wehrmacht, was it? Of course it consisted of various ethnic groups and minorities. Still it was the Turkish army, are you objecting to this? In tradition of previous Turkish states (like the Seljuk named after Selçuk Bey), Ottoman (Osman) is just the name of the bey who laid the foundations of the empire, it is not a name that signifies the unification of nations like "United Kingdom" or "United States of America". So what do you think you are actually doing by replacing Ottomans with Turks? What would you do if Turks didn't have such tradition, if it was just the Turkish Empire instead of Ottoman?--194.27.64.188 (talk) 17:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually many young boys were sent from Istanbul itself, it is said that there was no family lef in Istanbul that did not send a son to the front. An Arab regiment I know is the 77th, that was supposed to cover the 27th and 57th of Colonel Şefik Aker and Mustafa Kemal but failed miserably in doing so. eae1983 --88.245.31.51 (talk) 14:20, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Removed link - why?

• Gallipoli: The Game - A satirical Lemmings-style computer game based on the ANZAC landings at Gallipoli, based on the open-source game Pingus

Look, if you don't think the link should be there, fine, take it out, but please indicate why in the edit comment. A simple "revert" just isn't appropriate for something that's not actually vandalism. --Andrew 10:33, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry. "Revert spam" I should have said. Geoff/Gsl 04:13, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The army kidnapped by a mysterious cloud

There are some rumours about a mysterious cloud, which should have kidnapped the 5th Norfolk on August 12th, 1915.

I've heard of that before... but it's too "paranormal" for a serious article like this. It might be deserving of its own, small, article. edgeworth 12:32, 26 July 2005 (UTC).

Nothing so exotic. A unit of a couple of hundred soldiers were seen to push on against weak opposition, became cut off and none returned in a campaign where most Allied dead were not identifed. The Graves Commission found the bodies in 1919. Reason the incident was more well known than other incidents was most of them were employed by the English Royal Family at the Sandringham Estate. See http://user.online.be/~snelders/sand.htm

Herne nz 09:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

A dramatic if not convincing film, with David Jason, not in this article though! Hugo999 12:35, 8 February 2007 (UTC) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0220969/

removed

"The Ottoman Empire had been dismissed by Tsar Nicholas I of Russia as "the sick man of Europe" but after victory over the Allies at Gallipoli, Turkey's visions of the empire were renewed." It seems absurd to call turkish military operations as "visions of empire", especially in an article about a british millitary operation in the ottoman territory.

Note - before checking the changes to this talk page I reverted an edit of blatant vandalism (insertion of the words 'prostitute' and 'pimp' etc., but moved two versions back, not having seen any justification for the removal of the paragraph. Feel free to re-remove the para from aftermath if considered justified, but be careful not to switch back to the vandalised version. Is there a source for this para? it sounds like a quote. dramatic 08:58, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Churchill

Can somebody identify who actually conceived the operation? It's credited to WSC, here; he didn't actually come up with it, only championed it (& I'd correct it if I knew more...). Trekphiler 05:59, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Casualties

Why are there inconsistent casualty figures at the top and bottom of this page? The figures under casulaties look more plausible Nickhk 01:01, 9 January 2006 (UTC)nickhk

I have to agree... I was very confused while reading the article. can anyone clarify this and make all numbers equal?

Ah, yes, I'll third the confusion... Samgra 08:04, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Consider it fourthed. The numbers in the box at the top right of the page seem idiotic. 700,000 turkish dead? 550,000 British empire and french dead? That cant be right. I thought it was about 10,000 apiece -- Will James 05:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I found the numbers. Here they are.

• Australia: 18.500 wounded and missing - 7,594 killed.
• New Zealand : 5,150 wounded and missing - 2,431 killed.
• British Empire (excl. Anzac) : 198,000 wounded and missing - 22,000 killed.
• France : 23,000 wounded and missing - 27,000 killed.
• Ottoman Empire (Turkey) : 109,042 wounded and missing - 57,084 killed.
• Furthermore 1.700 Indians died in Gallipoli, plus an unknown number of Germans, Newfoundlanders and Senegalese.

I got that from this site - http://www.greatwar.nl/frames/default-gallipoli.html . I'm new to the whole wikipedia thing so I'd apprecate it if someone else did the adding of casualty information. Remember to cite it if you need to. --Will James 07:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Can this template go on this page?

Template:New Zealand Army

• Where on the page should it go, and why should it go into this page?--Adam ^(talk) 20:03, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

6.000 BULLETS FOR EACH SQUARE METER!

Japanese Minister:

“The war which 6,000 bullets fell on each square meter,Turks were the victorious.You succeed an really impossible.You showed to all world the belief is victorous by challenge the latest technology and rigging.Moreover,the enemies were not one.Entente Powers were 72 nations who fighted with you.”

Note :More than 500,000 people lost their lives and Turkey lost all her quality labours.Therefore,Turkey couldnt close her quality labour needs for years and it influenced economy a lot...Inanna 23:15, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Middle Eastern theatre of World War I

Please see Talk:Middle Eastern theatre of World War I#Rename? --Philip Baird Shearer 10:35, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Trivia Section

I added a trivia section about this campaign.. It can be a ".. in popular culture" section too.. --Jack o lantern 18:11, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Inconsistency

I noticed an inconsistency in the article: in the intro, it is mentioned that an estimated 500 000 soldiers died, but in the table near the end of the article, it says no more than 130 000 soldiers were killed. Since the number of wounded troops is quite similar in the intro and in the table, I would tend to believe the number of deaths would be roughly 130 000. Plus, rare are the battles leaving more dead than wounded.

Talk:Gallipoli --> Gallipoli, Turkey

There is a Wikipedia:Requested move to move the page Gallipoli to Gallipoli, Turkey because there is a Gallipoli, Italy. I am opposed to the move because I think Gallipoli Turkey is the primary usage of the word and does not need the country postix. If you would like to express an opinion on this please follow the link to Talk:Gallipoli --Philip Baird Shearer 15:10, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Tom Traubert's Blues

I removed the trivia entry that stated Tom Traubert's Blues by Tom Waits is about the Gallipoli campaign. This entry seems totally unsupported by even a cursory review on the internet. Nor is it supported by the lyrics themselves--as ambiguous and rambling as they may be.Schaddm 03:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm a big fan of alternate history, but ...

Can the extensive "What if?" segment that opens the Aftermath section really be considered anything other than original research and thoroughly unencyclopaedic? If someone simply wants to say "X was a significant factor in the failure of the operation," then that statement should be made at the time the factor is discussed. Binabik80 02:40, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm surprised that it lasted so long there. I have removed this text from the article:

It is tempting to suppose the Gallipoli campaign could have had a different outcome by asking "What if?" certain events had followed a different course, whether through luck or leadership.

The Battle of Gallipoli was a finely balanced struggle with neither side able to exploit any slight advantage. When the Allies achieved a breakthrough, such as at Lone Pine or the second battle of Krithia, they lacked the reserves to continue the advance. Likewise when the Turks halted an Allied attack, their counter-attacks were unable to rout the enemy.

--Michael Billington (talk • contribs) 09:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Paranormal reports in this battle?

I heard a LOT of paranormal reports about this one battle... like the on posted somewhere above me about the 5th Norfolk. Also I heard that there were supposebly bombs either fired from the ships or dropped by British bombers, not sure which one, that never hit the ground! As I remember these were actual reports by soldiers in the battle! Anyone know anything about this?

Calengurth 00:27, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

ottoman etc.

I wouldnt use Turkish since there were many ethinical groups. I'd rather see Ottoman or even Muslim to be used in this article. I'v e been to the place and there were pakistani's etc.

Turkish is not just an ethnical definition dude. He, who is a Turkish Citizen, is Turkish. Battle of Gallipoli can said to be the most important section of the Turkish Independency War. And in fact, the commander of this battle was Mustafa Kemal who is honoured by Turkish nation with the name 'Atatürk' that means 'Father of Turks'. Battle of Gallipoli's why he is named so. Gundoganfa 02:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

mystery

The cloud was Allah's work. Also there was a cannon stil hot that was used in syria wich came in to help at Gallipoli. Its no magic alright. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 145.53.211.52 (talk) 23:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

hahahaha!!

"tragically"

I've restored the word "tragically" to this sentence. The Turks launched a major assault at Anzac on 19 May — 42,000 Turks attacked 10,000 Australians and New Zealanders — but the attack tragically miscarried.

An anon removed the word with the following edit summary: "Non neutrol POV - Inappropriate to say "tragically" - one side's tragedy is another side's victory.."

I don't agree with this. To my mind the use of the descriptive word is linked to the attack, not the campaign as a whole. Of course this attack was a tragedy for the Turks, just as the Nek assault was a tragedy for the Australians. NPOV doesn't mean that we have to excise all description or emotion from our writing. --Pete 19:28, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Constantinople or Istanbul?

By the time of the campaign, the capital had been named Istanbul for over four hundred years. Isn't that the name that should be used? Jontomkittredge 23:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Removed from trivia - sole example of truce

Someone with a less than encylopedic knowledge of history, much less this war, had this entry in the trivia section:

A day's truce was arranged to facilitate the removal of the dead and wounded; this momentary contact led to a strange camaraderie between the armies, and courtesies not observed elsewhere in the war.

To which I can simply reply - "Uh, hello, Christmas truce of 1914?" RoyBatty42 18:29, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Casualty figures

Do we have any reliable sources for the casualty figures? Baristarim 19:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I can give you a source for Ottoman casulties:

• 55,000 killed
• 21,000 dead from disease
• 100,000 injured
• 64,000 invalided out during the fighting
• 10,000 missing

Andrew Mango, 1999. Ataturk. John Murray. p.156.

He gives a less detailed breakdown of Allied casualty figures at 213,980, citing Encylopedia Brittanica, 15th edn, XIX, 951. --A.Garnet 19:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok. I tried to raise the possibility of a FA push at WPMILHIST - I hope that they can get involved as well. Baristarim 19:33, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I have noticed a problem here-Up at the top of the article it says casualties were slightly higher for the British forces then the Turks,then near the end of the article a different set of numbers has the British winning 2-1.Im not sure which is accurate,please make them conform.

Is it just me, or is the final total (533,527) underivable from the other numbers? Derek Chong 12:38, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

New sections

Three new sections should be added to this article: "Cultural Influence" (relating to the battle's notoriety among the general public, particularly in Australia, New Zealand and Turkey), "Political Backlash" (accounting for the immediate political consequnces of Gallipoli, the new cabinet, Churchill's sacking and the Dardenelles Commission) and "Conditions" (describing the notorious conditions suffered by both sides over the 10 months).Nwe 12:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

10 months? GrahamBould 20:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

8 months, now aren't you clever.Nwe 20:57, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Australia

Why does it list Australia under British Empire, Australia became independant in 1901. It also should mention Australia and NZ in the opening line. Unsigned comment at 11:06, 2 July 2007 by user:121.45.52.163

It didn't achieve independence in 1901: it became a largely self-governing dominion of the British Empire. Its soldiers served under British Expeditionary Force command and control. Australia continued to issue British passports to Australians until 1949. ROGER ^TALK 12:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

The truth is somewhere between the above two posts. The meaning of Dominion status changed significantly and rapidly over the years, and one could argue that it is almost meaningless as a description. Before 1931, the Dominions (as such) were independent in all matters except foreign affairs (including trade). Even in those, they could and did exercise informal independence. Their citizens were officially called "British", even though their citizenship, passports etc were controlled by the Dominion govts.

Therefore, in WW1 the declaration of war was made by the UK and covered the Dominions. However, the recruiting and deployment of armed forces was controlled by the Dominions. Hence the long and bitter debate in Australia about conscription, which was never implemented in Australia during WW1, unlike Canada. Cheers, Grant | Talk 10:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Kitchener

I feel this article is too easy on Lord Kitchener.It was clear he knew nothing of the terrain in the Dardanelles,had no proper plan if the navy did not succeed,appointed yes men(Hamilton),and did not even fully inform them properly on the plans. Even Hamilton in his diaries states "My knowledge of the Dardanelles was nil;of the Turk nil; of the strength of our own forces next to nil. Although i have met K. almost every day during the past six months,and although he has twice hinted that imight be sent to Salonika, never once, to the best of my recollection had he mentioned the word Dardanelles." The only reason he was not blamed for the fiasco that followed,as many others were, was his popularity with the public.--Sandbagger 09:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I havn't read the article properly yet so I'm not sure how much it blames him. However, he wanted nothing to do with the campaign right from the start, and was only dragged in by Churchill's insistence on starting it off, with the notional idea that no army troops would be necessary. If he had been enthusiastic from the start then it might hve turned out differently, but he wasn't. In the sense he always thought and said it was a bad idea, was he to blame when it failed? He believed it a waste of resources, should he then honestly have voluntarily added more? It seems likely the landings could havebeen a success if handled differently, but that still begs the question of what would have heppened next? Sandpiper (talk) 19:56, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Mustafa Kemal?

Wasn't Mustafa Kemal relatively low-ranking back then? I'm 100% positive that he had some Turkish superior-in-command. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slntssssn (talk • contribs) 21:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe he had his own battalion. But I'm probably wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Bryce (talk • contribs) 11:55, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

A battalion would make him insignificant in a campaign of this size. In fact, he commanded a division and did play a significant part, albeit subordinate to Sanders. Grant | Talk 10:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC) this is really good for those children who are in secondary learning history it really help —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.200.8.144 (talk) 18:33, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Decisive?

Why is this described as decisive?. Gallipoli was a failur but to descibe the battle as decisive is palpably wrong. The British defeated the Ottoman Turks during WW1. See Allenby. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.102.105 (talk) 16:12, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

I'm afriad that I have quickfailed this for GA as it contains a severe paucity of references. There should be at least one reference per paragrpah and here there is no where near that quantity. There are also substantial prose and layout problems which would probably have prevented promotion, but at this stage there is no chance of the article passing without thorough referencing. Apologies and Regards, --Jackyd101 (talk) 19:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

geographical inconsistancy

In the middle of the page, Anzac goes from being the name of the forces from down under, to a place which is not on any of the maps. It continues to be compared to geographically, which makes many of the battles hard to place. Thanks, 38.119.205.11 (talk) 16:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC) Lyle Monster

Badly Named Page - Galipolli Was Not A Battle.

Galipolli was not a battle it was a series of battles, over a period of time. More properly this is known as a campaign. Therefore this page should be named teh Galipolli Campaign, not the Battle of Galipolli. Any takers? Jtan163 (talk) I would suggest by comparison The Battle of the Somme, also known as the Somme Offensive, fought from July to November 1916,. I think traditionally it would be called the battle of the somme, despite taking 5 months. Some battles are slow. Sandpiper (talk) 19:46, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Whilst the norm is to call it a battle, Jtan163 is perfectly correct to call it a series of battles. Wikipedia itself acknowledges this in their List of Battles article. Joe Deagan (talk) 00:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the history of this talk page I see this was already discussed and I don't understand why it was not changed to the Gallipoli campaign! Although I have already stated the norm is to call it a battle, I have also heard it referred to as a campaign, which strictly speaking is the correct definition. I am tempted to be Bold but will hold back and see if anyone can make me any the wiser as to the reason for not changing it. Joe Deagan (talk) 00:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)